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Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!
12

Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)

I was recently asked to be a regular house dancer at a Middle Eastern restaurant in San Francisco, a somewhat high profile gig in front of large windows facing a very busy intersection.
  
My dance gigs in the past have been fairly obscure festival or private events, thus little chance for an encounter with a client.  So I went to the boss this morning to ask if this would be OK with the firm.  I fully expected a response similar to, “NO, under no circumstances will one of our architects,especially one who testifies as an expert witness, be caught popping and locking in a skimpy costume in public.”

Not only did I get a “go for it”, they now are talking about having a company party with selected clients at the venue.   I’m feeling panicky now.  Dancing for strangers is no problem.  Dancing for friends is a bit harder.  Dancing for co-workers and clients.  Not enough Adavan in the world....

What do I say?  Limit the crowd to a few, say 4 people at a time.  Tell me ahead of time, sit in the back so I can’t see you. I really don't want to say no to the gig.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I would talk with your boss and the restaurant owner, and see if you can arrange to not perform when a company function is scheduled there.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I think I would need to see a video before I could attempt to answer this one

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I second the video before answering...

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Why even ask?  None of their business what you do on the outside.  Can't undo that now.

You took the step to dance in a public venue.  I assume that means
a.) you are willing to perform for all reasonably-behaved customers
b.) you are good enough to get the gig.

If your boss and/or clients show up, just give them your best show ever.  I have no doubt you will do great.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)
I’ve been pretty careful about keeping video clips of me off of YouTube, but here is an example of the style of belly dance that I’d be doing from a very well-known dancer from Montreal.  I’ve taken her workshops and steal her moves a lot.  I try not to steal whole routines, but it’s difficult.  She is one of the best.  It's very elegant, classical Egyptian cabaret dance.

We have similar body types, sort of an over-stuffed Jessica Rabbit, are close in age and coloring.  This is as close as I can get to a clip of me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOkP0DpdVis&mode=related&search=

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

4
I think their plan sounds inappropriate.  Regardless of what the bosses' good intentions may be, it basically has you dancing for the clients.  Your interaction with the clients qua clients should be in the role of architect, nothing else.

It's one thing if a client in the course of their everyday life happens to wander into the restaurant while you're dancing, and even decides they really enjoy it and makes a point of coming back; it's another thing entirely if the client is brought, in the context of their business relationship with your firm, to see you, an employee of the firm, perform as a dancer.

It would be marginally inappropriate even if you were a pianist and they wanted you to provide the musical wallpaper at a corporate function; the nature (not to mention history) of bellydancing brings things to a whole 'nother level.

I'm not quite in the same position because I have a public sector job and thus no clients in that sense, but I am a musician, and skirt the edges of conflict of interest when private-sector people that I have business dealings with decide they like the music, come to the shows, buy the CDs.  I'm okay with that as far as it goes (if the Powers That Be think I can be swayed by someone buying a $10 CD from me, they shouldn't have me on the payroll to begin with), but people have joked about having me provide the entertainment at a convention and I think if that inquiry were ever to get serious, I would have to refuse.

So I think you *should* say no to the gig.

None of this helps you with how to get out of it, though...

Maybe just something honest like what you've already said in your post--"I'm not very comfortable dancing even in front of my friends, as opposed to strangers who I never interact with in any other way; I really don't think I can handle dancing in front of the bosses & clients.  It's just too intimidating.  Betcha didn't think I could be intimidated, did you?"

Or something.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Start now looking for a new job.  You may be able to seperate the two lives but some of the people you work with will not be able to.
get ready for remarks and references to your dancing now on.  They will range from the well meaning to the nasty, mean spirited.
You will get sick of it, sooner or later.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Why do people ask questions like this on a forum?  Every time someone does, there are people on every side of the issue, someone always says "quit now", and then everyone repeates themselves.  No ones opinion is ever changed and the OP goes on to do what she wanted to do in the first place.

Can I tweak the scenario a touch?  Say you were on a state championship swimming team and the boss suggested a company outing at a swim meet.  No problem, right?  What if your passion was acting and your boss invited clients to the opening night of "Othello"?  Again, no problem.  

If you're proud of your art and are good enough to be invited back then what the hell is the issue?  The woman in the clip was showing less skin than a swimmer if the issue is skin.  The dance looked difficult but not blatently sexual.

You really need to live by the great tag line in your signature.

David

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

HgTX is right.....

You REALLY don't want to mix these two profesions....

I doubt little good will come from it and anything bad is NOT worth it...

BTW - nice video - but it reinforces my thoughts even more.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

The problem isn't how Cass thinks about bellydancing.  The problem is how others think about bellydancing.  It's an art form that carries a lot of baggage that swimming and piano playing don't.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Cass,

The big question remains.  Are we invited to watch you dance?

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)
Well, I had an extended lunch with the boss.  I asked that I be allowed to get comfortable with the gig first, before any ‘Company’ shows up.  The girl I’ll be replacing once a month at the restaurant is 20 or 21 years old.  I may not even last at this thing, based on age alone.  I’m much closer to her mother’s age.
  
I’m not worried about the amount of flesh being displayed.  My cabaret costumes are a bit less revealing than the rather tame video clip.  And you can always tailor moves to be a refined display of precision isolations, and not vulgar gyrating. I suppose vulgar gyrating is also open to interpretation.  What people think about belly dance in general is not the real problem.

I was feeling hinkey about something but couldn’t quite place my finger on it, until HgTX mentioned the interaction factor, and the sale of CD's.  I think you nailed it, or at least made the connection happen in my brain.

Restaurant gigs not only include a dance set, usually 20-minutes, but also includes audience interaction where the dancer is required to spend about 30 minutes getting patrons out of their chairs to dance, demonstrating moves, then having the patron repeat it, usually with highly comic effect.  This is the point where they stuff your costume with tips.  THAT’S the part that makes me uncomfortable, either from co-workers or witnessed by co-workers, bosses, and clients.  (A tip jar is a little less unseemly, but usually results in fewer tips.)

And I found the clip of the routine I steal.  You don't get much better.  Watch the drum solo, about mid way through.  First time I saw the 'hips on an invisible string', I knew I had to do it.  This is also a better representation of what I mean by over-stuffed Jessica Rabbit.



  

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

If it is a company party, then why are you not invited to that? Or are you just talking about a few upper people from the office with a few clients?

Personally, I think it would be disrespectful for your boss to expect you to perform for clients (or to show up "out of the blue" as a group).  I would encourage them to go to the restaurant, but keep you off of the guest appearance list.

To take it other way from the swim meet or the acting . . . lets say you were a stripper, and you are OK working in a club and for private parties.  Would you still feel OK doing that for a company party with clients?  Definitely not saying what you are doing is the same, but I feel it is closer than the swim meet thing.  You are performing in a way that says look at my body (which I have no problem with, and think the dance is cool).  I don't think it is a big deal if a stray client or coworker was to come in, but when you get more of them, there is likely to be the group effect with people talking.  You are more likely to get people thinking along the lines of the 2nd and 3rd replies here that basically said "Let us see you shake your junk."

Ugh, I’m starting to sound old and conservative.  As you said though, a portion of the gig (tipping) makes you uncomfortable.  What happens if your fears are realized, and your clients/coworkers can’t stop thinking about you getting tipped while working?

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Cass, I think your approach of asking for time to get used to it seems reasonable.

Still can't get the image of an overstuffed Jessica Rabbit out of my head.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I think that you should try to keep your 2 worlds separate from each other. While I and most others would not think any less of you, there is still a large sexist/chauvanistic segment of the population that have not yet grown up. They would not think of you as an entertainer or a dancing hobbyist, but as a "bad girl". Best of Luck, no matter what you choose.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

It sounds like you're on thin ice, in a sense.  Perhaps you should just dance smile wiggleflipspinspin2  

(after thinking about it of course, as you are)

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I think you have to either tough it out, or cancel your appearance.  If you tough it out, you may experience a bit of heat for a short time and possibly a bit of flack from some of your co-workers or clients.  If you cancel the appearance, then you are not accepting the consequences of wanting to dance.  You started the condition by dancing for the public... to aggravate matters, your boss, inappropriately, decided to call for a party.  I would suggest that you beg off for the one appearance... it might be better for you and your clients in the long run...

Dik

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

In a year or so some jerk you don't really like will go by your cube 5 times a day whistling the tune of "Stop-Stop- Stop" by the Hollies.
Good Luck

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Tricky this one. I'm afraid that, if you were to suggest this in the UK (belly dancing in front of colleagues), I think it would probably lead to a lot of moronic sniggering and possible unwanted attention from some colleagues. You would need to have a VERY strong personality to cope. I hope it's different in the US. I also sense that you DO have a very strong personality.

The overstuffed Jasica rabbit does it for me, and quite a few others, judging from the thread. Thinking that you're old enough to be someones Mum is neither here nor there.
You should do what you enjoy.

Your boss shouldn't have been so dumb to make the suggestion sbout the company outing. He really needs to have his mind expanded and think from other perspectives.
Your question was motivated by concern for your employer.
I'm not too sure how his thinking processes are controlled, if at all.

Bill

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I think you need to understand why your boss would invite clients to see you. Does he think this will produce more business for the company ? Do you think the clients will think you're a better architect if you belly dance ? Seems  a bit of an odd thing to do for a boss and no, I don't think it matters if you're an overstuffed Jessica Rabbit or a "very young man dancing shirtless in transparent trousers".

I'd find out what his agenda really is and them make a judgement. How thin does the ice need to be ?

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

casseopeia
paint your face, wear a mask, plenty of ways to keep your two "lives" separate, as long as you can trust your boss not to give away the secret

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

"We have similar body types, sort of an over-stuffed Jessica Rabbit, are close in age and coloring"

When are you coming to New York City?

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Casseopia,

I agree with HgTX, that the "problem" is not yours or one of your own creation.  It is one that your boss is potentially creating by wanting to bring clients to a show.  Having company functions there I feel are inappropriate even if you are not performing.  Would you enjoy a scenario where the boss takes you and a potential client there and in the course of casual conversation mentions that you perform there?

It might be more difficult now but I would still try to keep your performing "world" separate from your engineering one.  Hopefully the boss(es) would respect that position as well.  Obviously you are uncomfortable with the prospect.  They should not have potentially put you in this position in the first place.  If you can't come to a comfortable resolution, you have a tougher choice to make, dropping the gig or perhaps your job.

Regards and good luck

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Casseopia,

Why wouldn't the boss take clients to such an establishment when you are not performing?  

The answer is obvious, he want's his clients to be entertained by YOU.  

In my opinion, that is giving the company more then the extra effort.  

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

3
I wonder, are we giving the boss a little too much credit here? From this and Cass's other posts, I get the impression that she has a pretty good relationship with her boss. It could simply be that he hasn't actually thought this through. The thought process could be "Sure go for the gig its a great opportunity for you. Maybe I'll get chance to see what this dancing is you talk about all the time. I'll bet the other guys would like to see it as well. Maybe we could make a night of it. A company outing could be a great opportunity for entertaining clients".

It might not have occurred to him that he is now talking about having one of his architects dancing for clients if he is still thinking in terms of being supportive/taking an interest in a friends hobby and entertaining clients at the same time. The answer might be as simple as joining the dots for him pointing out that it might be just a little inappropriate.

Or maybe I'm just imposing my relationship with my co-workers onto your situation and you may have to give up one or the other. I hope you can find a solution without having to miss out on the gig.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

kchayfie, I think you might be right.  If the boss is basically a pretty good guy that may well be the thought process, even if it leads to a conclusion that could be construed as inappropriate.  However Cassie actually knows the guy and is the one to be affected so I guess it's what she thinks that's important.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I was the thinking the same as epoisses. The art form offers lots of room for anonymity. Wear a wig, veil, and heavy eye makeup, keep the lights dim, and use a stage name. Might need to develop a Mideast accent for the interaction part. No one knows as long as you don't tell.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

BTW that will also allow you to post a picture afterward blllttt

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)
I discussed the dance gig with two bosses.  The big boss (my direct supervisor) said, “yeah, whatever.”  He’s puts up with my stuff and I don’t give him much grief about my assignments.  It was another owner of the firm, a woman born in the Middle Wast who suggested the outing.  I’m absolutely certain that she did not intend any disrespect.  In fact, I wouldn’t mind if she came with her husband and children, who I adore, so that they could offer some unvarnished feedback.  I know she would be honest.

My fear is that I will be disappointing as a dancer.  I AM AFRAID THAT I WILL SUCK!  Boring the audience is death.   Having people watch you and snigger is far, far better than not having them even once glance up from their hummus dip.  I would rather have knee-slapping gafaws than walk away thinking they didn’t even know I was there.

I got some interesting feedback from my dance friends last night at rehearsal.  Restaurant gigs are known to be challenging, and this is partly why I want to do it.  It requires grace under extreme pressure and an ability to improvise on the spot.  I need to improve on both and this is the ‘jumping into the fire’ way of doing just that.  It will toughen me up, and I can practice performance polish in a throw-away setting.  I can safely suck in anonymity, as long as there isn’t some big crowd of people I know watching and recording it.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

The shirtless ballerino in tights isn't inviting people to stuff dollar bills into his costume.  The relationship bewteen audience and belly dancer is different from the relationship between audience and ballet dancer.

I do believe that the boss had only the best of intentions, but it's still not an appropriate request.  Bringing clients along turns a fun hobby into part of the job, and a highly inappropriate part of an architect's job at that.  Furthermore, your friends and co-workers may have an enlightened attitude about belly dancing, possibly in part because you yourself have enlightened them, but you have no control over the degree of enlightenment the clients may have.  And the fact that you found the need to get clearance to take this "exposed" gig to begin with means you do expect certain people to have the wrong ideas.

I think I wouldn't do it.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Quote:

Dance is the poetic baring of the soul through motion. - Scott Nilsson

I hope you dance.

Maui

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Things are clearer now.
Your middle-eastern female boss will obviously have an entirely different opinion from that of a male.

How can you consider yourself to "suck" as a performer when you obviously have so much enthisiasm and experience.

Ultimately, you have to do what you are confident in / comfortable with.

DaviViking - behave yourself.

Bill

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Quote:

I’m feeling panicky now.  Dancing for strangers is no problem.  Dancing for friends is a bit harder.  Dancing for co-workers and clients.  Not enough Adavan in the world

This may be more than a simple question of "nerves" I think you've missed an important point here and your gut is saying so too. Once you start to mix business and pleasure both can suffer.

If your company's clients need entertaining then you need to be in the hosting party not be the entertainment.

If it is your Middle-eastern boss and family, having them there sans clients and sans co-workers, then it could be a great means of bonding.
 
You should be able to judge the validity of the comments above about your boss having the best intentions of being supportive but not having thought it through, in which case you may need to go back and suggest you have thought about some more and would rather not have yourself as company entertainment, at least, not at this time.

In fact, you need to think about the future of both your dancing and your career and decide that if you want both in your future, what the conditions should be that will allow that and take steps now to ensure that you can realise your objectives.

PS I suggest you don't need any farting draughtsperson in your audience under any circumstances  whatever else you decide! There is a great art to conducting oneself properly in company entertaining. Inevitably there will always be someone who lets the side down, who relaxes too much and says to much, especially if there is drink involved. In vino veritas? Some truths are better left unsaid. I suggest the risks inherent in this are not worth the benefits; did you find any benefits?

Better to think things through very carefully

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I would bet a cup of coffee and a dounut, that most of the "don't do it" comments are from an age group of 45+;

Not so much because of a generational lifestyle, but because that group has seen negative ramifications of what Casseopeia has been propositioned to do.  Seen absoute "gentlemen" become complete idiots when away from home or a few drinks in them.

There is also the generational attitude to our profession.  Mixing belly-dancing with your clients or company's clients just does not sit well for the previous posted reasons.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Hey, nobody said I would give my age away but I thank Monkeydog for his limit being so low.
PS I like belly dancing (watching).
My wife does too and every Noruz (and oftener) we visit whichever Persian/Eastern Restaurant has belly dancers. A great exhibitionist, she is always one of the ones who lets herself be dragged out to dance with the belly dancer.

For my part, while I would never be dragged up to dance or in any other way make a fool of myself (I can do that just as easily without help or an audience)neither I have never attempted to stick money in a belly dancer's clothes because I am not sure (a) if my wife's enthusiasm would extend this far or (b) how the belly dancer would appreciate a handful of small change cascading out of her outfit whenever she moved.... (my wife has strict rules about me using notes when I have small change to use up, something about trouser pockets I think; some things are best kept in trouser pockets and some things not, it appears. usually my money ends up in her handbag anyway, so you can imagine the scene of me asking my wife for money to feed into a belly dancer's outfit).

Fortunately, in the UK and those restaurants we go to, one is not expected to tip the dancer in such a familiar fashion; it probably will preserve my marriage for some time to come.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

casseopeia,

There are lots of comments made, and many link your dancing to your job. To me, there is no link. Actually, the two are very separate.

If you dance, great - and I hope you do. If you wish to not have company clients arranged outings to your restaurants, that is also great. I would simply ask my boss to not arrange a "business" function at your restaurant with you dancing. Hopefully, they will honour your wishes.

I see this request no different than someone asking the "business" meeting not take place at a pork sausage restaurant because someone is Jewish/Muslim/non-pork eater/vegetarian. It is a simple matter of politeness, good manner and business common sense.

I hope you do dance at the restaurent. I hope you have fun. Chances are, your boss will honour your request to not arrange business functions there while your are working.

Since you invited Eng-Tip folks to come, what is the name of the restaurant? smile

 

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I believe professional conduct should be about the business and exclude most all else so I maintain partitions between my personal life and professional life.

There is no upside to participating in an activity that in any sense might ultimately cause someone to have less respect for you professionally.





RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

"It requires grace under extreme pressure and an ability to improvise on the spot...   It will toughen me up..."

No upside? Sounds like skills that could come in handy in most any career. Like everything, you consider if the ups outweigh the downs.

Guess which side of 45 I'm on?

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

jmw,
I set the limit low, so I felt like I was one of the younger guys.

BTW, I also have no problem belly dancing.
As a matter of fact, if you were dancing on a stage, as part of an exibition, that would be acceptable.  I think what seems inappropriate is the close proximity, and the stuffing of dollar bills in your costume by your coworkers or clients.  Very thin line between that and a strip club.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Quote (jmw):

If your company's clients need entertaining then you need to be in the hosting party not be the entertainment.

To me that gets right to the essence of the problem.

And I'm 37.

Hg

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RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)
I’ve decided that a company party to watch me dance is NOT ok with me.  I don’t think that will happen.  I think I’ve successfully put that idea to rest with the boss.  I just never thought there would be so much opposition to doing the gig in relative obscurity, here and with some of my dance friends.

So I asked two attorney clients (both female) today what they thought of me doing the dance gig.  The 28 year old said, “Are you sure about this, what if there are hecklers?”  The 50 year old attorney who is a blues singer and regularly sings at night clubs said “Go for it.  After all, how much longer is this even going to be an option?”  A male attorney, approximately 35 years old walked in on our conversation and was filled in on the topic of my pending side job.  His first question, “You don’t mean lap dancing do you?”   That was the final nail in the coffin for the Client party.
 
According to my new data, I would hypothesize that the older the person, the more supportive of the idea of a belly dancing side job.  My guess that someone who is older and more established and secure in their own professional field has less reason to worry about any downside.  My 50 year old client/blues singer brings up a good point.  Although I still think I’ve got more than a decade left, at some point I will not want to put up with the shlepping, dieting, exercise and imposition on my free time.

After several discussions, my plan now is to;

1. Go to the place with a friend and decide if I like the atmosphere and clientele.  Several have mentioned that they did not think it classy enough for me.

2. Write and commit to memory a few things to disarm hecklers.  My blues-singer client was very helpful with a couple of phrases.  I liked her idea of stopping and pulling out a piece of paper asking the heckler if the note was from him, it’s signed ‘p@ckerhead’.

3. Try it out at least once, without telling anyone, other than a couple of very close dance friends.  I wouldn’t mind having a couple of friendlies in the audience.

BTW, all of my asking around has resulted in two other dancers calling me to ask if I would sub in for them at their regular gigs.  A Pandora’s box this has become.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Cass:  

Quote:

A male attorney, approximately 35 years old walked in on our conversation and was filled in on the topic of my pending side job.  His first question, “You don’t mean lap dancing do you?”

Exactly the sort of thing I would be concerned by if I were you. How did he get to be an attorney with that level of general knowledge?
There's plenty of "p@ckerheads" out there.

Bill

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

I would think that any place unclassy enough that the clientele would actually heckle the entertainment is not a place you'd want to work.  

On the other hand, the occasional "overserved" patron who doesn't understand boundaries is probably going to be a job hazard no matter where you dance.

As long as no one turns it into client entertainment, and as long as it's the kind of place with tablecloths and fabric napkins, I'd take the gig (just not the corporate party gig).  In my musical life, I've worked with a belly dancer who is now full-time but started out as an engineer doing part-time dance gigs.

In all my arguments above, I was *never* saying you shouldn't take the restaurant gig at all, just that you shouldn't have to dance for your own corporate party.  I hope what I said wasn't construed otherwise.

Hg

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RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

2
Seems this thread is a wee bit old, but I feel a need to reply, as I am a bellydancer as well.

Mentioning the words "bellydance" to men of ANY age apparently titilates them. We can all blame hollywood movies for this. I find a sort of perverse amusement in stating i do "Middle Eastern Dance", watching the blank stares, then subsitutng "bellydance" and watching them start to drool. Its like the expect a person in a suit to transform into some sort of Britney Spears.
What can we do?

Not too much, horny males will always be, well, horny males.
Start by educating them about the history of bellydance, that a "harem" was just a safe place where women could relax, that they were NOT concubines for the horny men of the past. Downplay talking about your costume no matter how awesome it is, and remember: you dont have to have tips shvoed in your clothing. Historically, it was let to fall over the dancer, tumbling down to the stage where the manager or other personnel would collect the money for the dancer and return it to her after the show.

America has turned bellydance into a sideshow more so than its original familial dance (yes, even the men would join in at the hafla's, with the older women teaching the children how to dance), so dont be afraid to put your foot down and instruct them on how to be respectful. Ad if thatdoesnt work, you can always trade the bra for a gawahzhee (sp?)  dress.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)
Hey lookintomyeyes,

I’m glad I’m not the only dancer here! Now you can chime in and tell these guys when I'm full of BS.  winky smile

And you are right about the tips in the costume, just plain tacky.  I had no problem with the tip jar request.  My real issue is the restaurant owner’s restriction on the music.  They only like what they call ‘party music’, which is really Egyptian Pop.  They complained that I had too much modern stuff.  I like Techno and club beats as well as traditional songs.  They even requested no drum solo stuff.  I really don’t feel very inspired by Egyptian Pop, so that’s been the biggest hurdle. I feel like I should be enough of a professional to overcome my own dislike of the pop music and just dance.  Alas,it's harder than it sounds

I still haven't told the office my future dance dates.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

lookintomyeyes -

I respectfully disagree that men of 'any' age are titilated or otherwise interested in bellydance.  I'm a male and am not a fan of it for either the music (traditional) or for most of the women that i've seen perform it.

That said, I don't disparage anyone who does like it or perform it, just not my cup of tea.  I'd rather watch performances on Dancing with the Stars or in musical productions.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Qshake - when I said "any", I did not mean "all", but merely "many". My apologies if I have offended. I do know several men who find bellydance quite offensive, as well.

JMW - Ah yes, male bellydancers. I wish them more luck than us females in being respected in their art, for their often need it - far too often they are either ridiculed or sexualized in their dance as well.

casseopeia - Dont feel you have to "...feel like [you] should be enough of a professional to overcome [your] own dislike of the pop music and just dance". Bellydance is about dancing what you feel, so if you dont feel it, your dance is going to show it. Do you have any friends that are interested in Eqyptian pop that could provide suggestions as to variations of it that you would enjoy dancing to? Making momey and the joys are performign are two very good things, but if the end of the day what your performing isnt you, you may have trouble respecting yourself for it.In my city dancers have undercut each other so often and so much that dancers are cheap and easy to replace...so all we realy have left is our own moral compass.

(Sorry, guess I got a bit off topic now...)

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

As a female in a male dominated field, anything you do that draws attention to the fact that you are female will not be forgotten.  What I mean by that is that it will always come up in some sly joke or comment until the end of days.  I don't think it's the dance so much as some men cannot seem to separate skin from s*x.  If I were you, I would ask my boss at the restaurant to exclude me from that performance.  Just my opinion as one female to another.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Casseopia,

If I ever tried moves like that, I'd throw my back out for sure!  (and I'm in pretty good shape otherwise)

I'm not that familiar with belly dancing, but it looks difficult.  I have to admit there's something about it that's facinating to watch though.  If you're good at it, I'd keep it up!  Although realistically, as others have suggested, I'd keep it separate from work as much as possible.  It could sort of remain your alter ego; something to balance out your life and let off steam from your work.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

don't do it this time, not in front of people you will deal at work the next day. Again...DON'T DO IT!! make an exception, your proffesion and hobbies are first than whatever your boss suggest
Regards

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)

lookintomyeyes,  I also dance with a troupe where I am not the art director and rarely the choreographer so I have to frequently dance to music I did not choose, with moves that are not mine.  At least with a solo gig, I pick the moves.  But you are right.  I don’t feel at my best dancing to music that I don’t really like.  I’m sure it shows.

And we have the same thing here.  There are girls out there that will undercut (take less $$) to boot you out of a paying gig.  I don't really care.  I'm not in it to pay my rent.

MRM, you’ll come closer to throwing your back out doing standard sports.  At least with dance, we are VERY meticulous about proper warm-ups and varying movements to use different muscles.  Also, using proper form to prevent injury is critical.  I’m pretty strident about core strength as well.  Too many (especially men) over-emphasize building one showy area like biceps, and they forget all the muscles that support the spine.

I point this out to someone I am dating.  I'll try to get him into a standard yoga pose, standing on one leg, arms up overhead, foot at the knee.  he can’t stay that way for long, maybe 2 seconds.  I keep telling him it’s because he had not worked on core strength, which will improve his balance.

Dance will also improve your mood, no matter how unskilled you are.  We have an expression, there is no bad dancing, which really means get out there and move and let all of us laugh at you.  Actually I’d say most belly dancers around here are pretty charitable.  It doesn’t get bad until you get into the upper echelons.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Interesting points about core strength-I can definitely see it how that could improve balance.

I have to disagree about there not being any bad dancing.  Anytime I go to a good wedding, it's a safe bet that I'll be dancing later in the evening; poorly.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Quote (livingston):

I don't think it's the dance so much as some men cannot seem to separate skin from s*x

Please elaborate

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

HgTX,

Point taken.

I suppose I didn't _really_ want elaboration, it was more of a poorly-worded verbal eye roll.

Pretend I was never here...

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

"I don't think it's the dance so much as some men cannot seem to separate skin from s*x"

Right on!

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Frankly,
   I think the only contact between a hobby,serious as this one or not and a professional position should be Absolutely minimal.
   Architect,right? Reputation,ability and opportunity would seem to be the most important aspects of career success or failure.  
   All customers are people,no? People are/can be  political,fickle and quite often narrow minded.
   Belly dancing will not lend credence to your ability,some art forms or activities might.
   Prices and choices. Career or hobby more important?
                         Thanks,Ed  



   47 yo swm on the dark side of several careers.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)

Long, long ago I stopped making choices for fear of insulting or offending the narrow-minded and uninformed.  I have been much happier ever since.  And in the end, that's the only thing that really counts.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!




    Prices and choices. Career or hobby more important?
                       Good luck,Ed

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Ed,

As a fellow bellydancer with much the same views as casseopeia with respect to personal happiness: I'd have to say that any company full of people who could not respect me for who i am (never mind appreciate my art form) is someplace I would seriously consider NOT working for.

While bellydance will not lend credence to my abilities as an engiener, neither will being a photographer, cake decorator, or sports fan enthusiasist. None of those hobbies have ANYTHING to do with engineering, and if I think less of someone's engineering abilities because of their hobby, then perhaps I need an attitude adjustment. As I said earlier: EDUCATION, not silence, is the key to improving the view of bellydance in the world. I refuse to let the uniformed control my life through fear and misplaced disrespect.

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

The ethical dilemma in this thread wasn't the pursuit of bellydance as a hobby, but combining that hobby with a corporate function.  In that case one is dealing not only with the attitudes of one's co-workers but also of one's clients--and adding confusion to the exact nature of one's relationship with the client.  If Cass were a pianist, she shouldn't be providing the musical wallpaper at a corporate function either; she should be at the table with the client and some other hired pianist should be plinking away in the corner.

Hg

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RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Hi Casseopeia,
I think you are quite right to keep your work and other career separate. Maybe in an ideal world it would not be necessary..I am a female in engineering and have worked another job (nights) in the entertainment industry..Despite all the enlighteneed co-workers, clients and bosses in the world, there are still those who may think differently of you (i.e., certainly not primarily as a competent engineer!) if you are a paid entertainer in an capacity which may have "connotations" for some  people. You should be at a company function as a representative of your company and profession, as a guest, along with clients and colleagues.
Caluna

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

(OP)

Hey, I forgot about this thread!  I quit the gig after just a few performances.  The restaurant owners were VERY restrictive with the music I could play and the pay, including tips, wasn’t worth the effort.

But this brings up an interesting point.  I’ve recently attended a few industry parties where other consultants I work with asked if I was going to dance.  So I told them I would never do that, but that I don’t mind if anyone I work with happens to see me at a restaurant or private party where I was hired to dance.  I took to heart many of the things brought up here and set a boundary of not mixing the two.

So thanks all for the wise words of advice!  I shamelessly used many of the things said here as if I had the good sense to come up with them myself.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Not that this is any form of helpful advice, but Cass the dancing architect reminds me of the quote that goes, "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

There is a PS that only now occurs to me (how I survive is a mystery when it takes so long for the obvious to be apparent); beware a too sympathetic boss for both your sake and his.
Bosses are not by nature inclined to be worker friendly, they take to heart the mantra that being a boss doesn't mean that they should be loved by everybody (anybody) so any apparent favouritism could lead to a whole lot of complications.
A great many people can take delight in interpreting what they see going on as something quite different; they can add two and two and make five and will claim "no smoke without fire" Offices are hotbeds of gossip, jealousy and innuendo.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Boss wants a company party at my Regular Dance GIG!

Married female boss in this case.  While, strictly speaking, it doesn't eliminate any possibilities, it makes one category of innuendo less likely.

Hg

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