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Raise promised, but never given...

Raise promised, but never given...

Raise promised, but never given...

(OP)
I work at a small engineering company, I'm the head electrical engineer over a few people.  I oversee every electrical aspect of all of our projects from start to finish.  I work more hours than anyone in our office (ten people), including the company owner, primarly because I'm the only experienced EE, so it is up to me to make sure everything is taken care of on the electrical side of our projects.  I work until 6PM every day, while the rest of the office clears out pretty much at 5PM sharp.  I work weekends when necessary, put in extra effort to make sure our clients are happy, and have never had a substantial error in my work.  Basically I'm saying I put a lot of effort into my work.

At my previous job, I received two or three raises a year, every year, without ever mentioning it.  Every raise was a surprise.  Nearly six weeks ago, I asked my boss for a raise, my first one since I've been with the company (I've been here almost two years).  He immediately and enthusiastically agreed to the raise ("Sure! We can do that").  At the same time, I asked if there was anything with my performance that I should improve, or if there is anything at all I should be doing different.  He said "no, not at all".  But now, three pay periods later, nothing has happened.  I've been told by one of the higher mechanical engineers that this is typical.

What frustrates me the most is not the money (it is maybe $180 take-home per month, not life changing).  The problem is, I feel like I've been lied to, and in my opinion it is just plain insulting to tell someone they are going to get a raise, then never follow through.  It is just a slap in the face.  I never hesitate to put in extra hours when anything needs to get done, and only 3-4 of my unpaid overtime hours would more than pay for what I requested.  I work more extra hours than that every week.  Honestly, in my opinion, it equates to theft, since we had an agreement.  It is no different than if I agreed to work 8-5 every day, but leave at 4.

I don't believe he has simply forgotten, since I've been told this is status quo when a raise is requested (before I ever asked).  I also know that financially, it isn't a problem for the company.

How would you approach this situation with your boss?  Other than this issue, our relationship is friendly, and always has been.  I really feel like telling him basically what I said above, that it is insulting to me since we had an agreement but he didn't follow through, although I know that is probably not the best course of action.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

I'd just go in and say, "Hey boss, I was wondering when I should expect the increase to show in my pay check?"

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Try to catch him one on one after everyone elso has gone home. Speak calmly and professionally and do not be confrontational, if you cannot manage this then wait until another time to bring it up.

Get straight to the point, mention that it has been three pays since your discussion and that you have not heard anything. State your case again why you feel you deserve the rise.

If this doesnt work then you may only have one option.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

(OP)
I get your point, but the main thing that bugs me isn't the raise.  I wish he'd realize that this is something you shouldn't do to people.  Other that this, I believe his business dealings are honest and respectable.  However, I'm going to have to deal with him in the future on an increasing number of occasions with bigger and bigger amounts (I've been promised a portion of ownership in the company in a few years).  If this is how he will deal with me at that time, it makes me question the decision to put more years in here with that goal in mind.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

My billionaire friend was really, really good at inducing people to believe that he had promised things that they could never prove he promised.  Working for him was otherwise a grand adventure.

The way it smells from here, if you don't have a contract that spells out the terms under which you will gain ownership, it probably won't happen.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

JigaWatt,  the worst thing about your situation is how it is making you feel.  Having experienced a similar situation early in my career, I believe you have to get this resolved one way or the other, and soon.  Make an appointment to have a man-to-man, and get it off your chest.  Odds are that he will respect you for telling him of this flaw in his management style, and if not, then there are plenty of jobs around for an engineer of your ability.  You will feel a weight lifted off your back.  Good luck.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Quote:

At my previous job, I received two or three raises a year, every year, without ever mentioning it.

Wow!!!  

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

(I've been promised a portion of ownership in the company in a few years).

Those verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

If it has already been discussed and 'sort of' promised, then ask him again, once. Make it quite clear and plain and to the point. If a decision cannot be made on the spot then set a time/date when it will be met.
Then if that deadline goes you start to understand where you stand.
Don't work till 6.00pm and don't work weekends. If you do not have a vested interest in the company then why should you care if the owner doesn't? I know this is not easy; you're either a person who looks at the clock or looks at the work to be done.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

I've learned not to waste time with people who don't keep promises.  A man is only as good as his word.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Maybe the raise comes after you are part owner.

My gut instinct says that will be never.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Send him an email saying

Dear xxxxxx,
Per our conversation on xx/xx/xx I understood you agreed I had earned a raise to $xxxx per xx. please let me know where we stand on this matter and when I could expect to see the resulting increase in my actual paycheck. Let me know if you would like to discuss the matter or my performance in general.
Thank you for your time,
xxxxxx

He may of gotten busy, forgot, passed it on to someone how has not followed through, etc.  Give him the benefit of the doubt, but this time try to get an email response or write it down as he is saying it and get him to agree while knowing you wrote it down.

Good luck.  Sounds like a good job with good responsibility.  Keep communicating with the boss.  He does not want to lose you.

ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

I like Beggar's idea...

Perhaps also ask if there is paperwork that needs to be done to finalize the deal.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

If it isn't on paper and signed, then it isn't worth much. Even if it is signed, it still probably isn't a sure thing.

Even so, I would get it on paper. Have another talk with him, remind him what he promised the last time you guys talked, and get it in writing.

If it still doesn't come through, do you really want to work for an untrustworthy owner/company?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

If I was in your shoes, I would start looking for work. I think this same problem will repeat itself.

In the meantime, I also like Beggar's idea. If that does not work, ZCP's idea of an e-mail sounds good too. But, honestly once something like this has happened, maybe it is a sign to move on.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

How do you know that he didn't get the ball rolling? It could be that your raise has been mired down in the paperwork that must be completed in order for you to see the result in your paycheck. Just ask him the very thing that is on your mind - did he follow through?

Maui

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Does no one talk anymore?  Why is everyone so quick to start packing their bags?  Just go and ask.  If he is extremely busy, send an email. If he doesn't check his email, put a note in his box or with the secretary with a spot for him to fill in when he can meet with you and for how long.

ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Two or three raises a year, every year?  For how long?  One or two years is believable.  More than that is not.

Get your resume out there.  Interview.  When you have a better offer, lay it on the line and use the other offer as your trump card!  The partner deal is the carrot he's leading you on with while he's pocketing the raises he's keeping from you.

Wise up!

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

I don't think anger and frustration ever helps.

Be respectful and professional when you ask him when you can expect to see the raise he agreed to.

I personally refrain from ultimatums.

As a parallel concurrent activity, I usually decide when and how to leave in a manner that puts where I want to be, and I start a methodical execution of that plan.

Usually I determine up front what the point of no return is. If my relocation plan gets to that point before the compensation is there, I just go.

If an acceptable alternative doesn’t arise, than I just have to realize the job market isn’t going to support the raise.

That’s when you might consider lowering the quality and quantity of services rendered. Face it, it’s easier for your boss to keep you on despite a lower performance level than it will be to bring someone new in.

Use the extra time to work on credentials to get you where you want to be.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

(OP)
Thanks for all of the tips, I do appreciate getting different perspectives.

I was at my previous position for almost three years (no, that isn't very long), and recieved 2-3 raises/year.  Smallest was 3%, biggest was 10%.  Starting pay was mid-forties, so the increases weren't exactly leaps and bounds.  Still, it was great to know that you were appreciated, and that my pay was increasing significantly faster than inflation...which isn't happening now.  My last boss offered me another raise when I left, told me he thought I was making a mistake by leaving, but said I had a job offer with them always on the table.  Now sometimes I wonder if he wasn't right about the mistake part.

I know what I need to do is bring it up with my current boss in a professional manner...it just isn't that easy to do, but I'll end up doing that in the next day or two.  I don't want to be a pushover.  I have extraordinary job security right now, but it is still difficult to in some way confront the hand that feeds you.

I'm not looking for other jobs, I intend to stay here (unless things continue this way), but I did happen to get a call from a headhunter last week regarding a local position. I told them I wasn't actively looking right now, but I am curious about what they have to offer.

I know it isn't a "paperwork" delay.  It is a small company...the checks are printed in the office.  A change can be made in minutes, it is just a matter of re-calculating tax withholding, etc.

As for future ownership, it is again a small company, no real assets other than computers and software, so the cash value is very small.  Once the owner retires, there aren't going to be any buyers other than the current PEs in the company.  The owner will basically have to sell to them (us) or the company goes away.  Right now I'm gaining now is relationships, trust & respect of our clients (which is one reason I put in a lot of effort now), and I'm just hoping this all works out in the end.  Yes, it could all fall apart, but the way I see it, I have no other shots at ownership this soon.  Other than starting on my own, which of course means a whole lot of risk for my family & savings.

The last two weeks I worked 55-60 hours a week.  Granted, those were two of the busiest weeks ever, but nothing takes the wind out of your sails like getting another paycheck with no raise after its been promised.  Today I just couldn't make myself stay much past 5.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Ask him why you hae not gotten the raise. If he does what he has to and gets the raise, great. Remember, after 2 years, you had to ask him for a raise, and then chase it.
If not move on. Don't pin your hopes on the owner selling you a share in the company. He has not talked to you about it and thigs happen. If you are local when he retires, you probably still have an excellent chance of buying a share then. In the mean time get a job with a real boss because it does not appear your efforts are appreciated where you are. (by the way, when you get that big project taken care of for that client, who do you think your boss gives the credit to -you or him? my money is on him) There is a saying that you should never teach a pig to sing - you waste your time and annoy the pig.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

It sounds like the first company you worked for was pretty good. Why did you leave the first company? A big increase for jumping ship? I worked for a small firm much like yours and the owner talked about how he saw a future partnership with me. We spoke of it on a couple of occasions. Also, getting increases in pay to the going rate at that company was like pulling teeth. I saw the writing on the wall. No future. When  I put my notice in to leave, do you think my boss asked me about the future partnership plan and why I would leave that behind? Of course not, because there was no future partnership plan. He was blowing smoke. My advice to you: Don't bank on his promise of partnership and except less now because of it. Get paid the going rate that you deserve for your skills now because if you have to hold your breath to become a partner, YOU'LL DIE! Just my 2 cents and experience. Good luck my friend.

 

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Ive heard of this before, a company will offer you a big raise for moving to them and then will try to make up for it by not giving you a raise for the next couple of years. Perhaps this is what your boss is doing.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Don't immediately assume the worst; even bosses have human attributes including a tendency to deal with what is prominent and to neglect that which isn't in their face all the time.

Hence Beggar has it right; have a friendly word and don't make it an "issue" until you know if it is an "issue". He may just have forgotten or be waiting for you to take the initiative.

This assumes your working relationship is good and justifies you in believing he is in earnest about part ownership.
In other words, if it is honest then he will have no problem discussing it with you.
SO go talk and gauge his reaction.

If you aren't comforatble dealing with this issue with him then it doesn't bode well for a future relationship as part owner.
You also cannot afford to let things slide or show any hesitancy dealing with this issue.

#Bottom line, if you don't ask, you don't get and if you don't ask, he may wonder why and how committed you are....

ALways keep you CV/Resume out there if for no other reasons than to have a good idea of your value and to have the option to start over.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Hello JigaWatt,

You probably already thought of this, but just in case...

If there was a valid reason for the delay, it was up to your boss to come up to you and discuss this. For example, "hey listen, we had a problem with so and so... and you will not see the raise until next month."

Also, the raise should be retroactive, that means it should include the last few weeks (or from the moment you agreed on the raise).

I think we all agree that you need to talk to the boss. But if your gut tells you this was not a paperwork delay, this may be only the beginning of a series of problems.

Good luck,

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Jiga

Let me put this idea of partial ownership out of your mind.  Let's say that he gives or sells you 5% ownership.  This year the company makes $100 k.  So the boss gives himself a $90k bonus (he decides bonuses, he has got controlling interest).  Now the profit is down to $10k, and your dividend is $500.  Not a very good return on your investment.  Also, regarding your statement that the only people he can sell to are his PE's, think again.  Sole proprietorships have a habit ending up in the hands of wives, idiot son's, or being bought out by big competitors.

I'll be very interested in hearing what he tells you when you ask about your raise.  If he is apologetic, and compensates retroactively, that says one thing.  If it's another story, (we don't have the money right now, we're working on changing the payroll system, a customer hasn't paid, etc.), that says another.

My guess, from the limited info provided, is that he going to simply agree again to the raise, and not give an explanation.  If he does, I urge you to clarify with him the effective date as being when he initially agreed.  Not only will you get the $$ he agreed to, but then the clock for the next raise will start running from the original date.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

You asked for a raise.

He agreed to one.

It seems you are talking to lots of people about your raise, none of them which matter. ;)

Brian

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

I have to agree with those that suggest an emailed reminder.  Stewing in your own juices isn't doing anyone any good.  I think your getting riled up at an honest mistake.  

-b

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Disagree. Engineers love email, but talking is a better method to resolve most problems.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Face-to-face is definitely the preferred method for such things. Keep it light and casual.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Nothing wrong with face-to-face, but he's not asking for a raise, it's already been agreed to.  He just needs to give his boss a reminder.  Presuming that the boss left their earlier meeting with the same agreement that he did, an email that the boss can forward to the accountant is all that's necessary.  

I would actually recommmend that JigaWatt avoid a face to face if he's going to take his resentment in with him.  If he's already been stewing for three pay periods, then it might be hard to leave that at the door and keep it "light and casual".

-b

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

Face to face is better.  However, companies often do not process increases at the drop of a hat.  Even small companies may require a few months to handle a raise except in special situations.

In my location, during the era more than three years ago raises were annual at best, if you got one.  However, the market is very hot in Houston.  People and get a raise without any problem.  Many people interview, get an offer then negotiate with the boss.  I recommend against this.  Two raises per year are common here these days.  Three would be unusual.

RE: Raise promised, but never given...

you started about 5 years ago at $40,000.  You have gotten approx 5 - 6 raises totalling about 25%.  So you are now making about $50,000 and you are unhappy that you haven't gotten any more.  I agree that you should have at least gotten a cost of living increase within a year of starting your new job.  That would be about3 - 5% so you should be at about $52,000.  A merit raise wouldn't be unheard of either at your level, perhaps another 5% per year. You shouldn't have to ask and your boss should either give you the raise each year or explain why you aren't getting one.  Regarding the ownership, I wouldn't expect that with only 5 years experience.  Within 10 years, you should expect to be offered the opportunity to purchase stock (or perhaps, be offered stock in exchange for pay).  But don't count on having enough stock to control the company any time soon. Unfortunately, you went nearly two years without mentioning the raise.  Your boss does not respect you or you would have gotten it sooner.  Ask him to pay up or submit your resignation.

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