Raise promised, but never given...
Raise promised, but never given...
(OP)
I work at a small engineering company, I'm the head electrical engineer over a few people. I oversee every electrical aspect of all of our projects from start to finish. I work more hours than anyone in our office (ten people), including the company owner, primarly because I'm the only experienced EE, so it is up to me to make sure everything is taken care of on the electrical side of our projects. I work until 6PM every day, while the rest of the office clears out pretty much at 5PM sharp. I work weekends when necessary, put in extra effort to make sure our clients are happy, and have never had a substantial error in my work. Basically I'm saying I put a lot of effort into my work.
At my previous job, I received two or three raises a year, every year, without ever mentioning it. Every raise was a surprise. Nearly six weeks ago, I asked my boss for a raise, my first one since I've been with the company (I've been here almost two years). He immediately and enthusiastically agreed to the raise ("Sure! We can do that"). At the same time, I asked if there was anything with my performance that I should improve, or if there is anything at all I should be doing different. He said "no, not at all". But now, three pay periods later, nothing has happened. I've been told by one of the higher mechanical engineers that this is typical.
What frustrates me the most is not the money (it is maybe $180 take-home per month, not life changing). The problem is, I feel like I've been lied to, and in my opinion it is just plain insulting to tell someone they are going to get a raise, then never follow through. It is just a slap in the face. I never hesitate to put in extra hours when anything needs to get done, and only 3-4 of my unpaid overtime hours would more than pay for what I requested. I work more extra hours than that every week. Honestly, in my opinion, it equates to theft, since we had an agreement. It is no different than if I agreed to work 8-5 every day, but leave at 4.
I don't believe he has simply forgotten, since I've been told this is status quo when a raise is requested (before I ever asked). I also know that financially, it isn't a problem for the company.
How would you approach this situation with your boss? Other than this issue, our relationship is friendly, and always has been. I really feel like telling him basically what I said above, that it is insulting to me since we had an agreement but he didn't follow through, although I know that is probably not the best course of action.
At my previous job, I received two or three raises a year, every year, without ever mentioning it. Every raise was a surprise. Nearly six weeks ago, I asked my boss for a raise, my first one since I've been with the company (I've been here almost two years). He immediately and enthusiastically agreed to the raise ("Sure! We can do that"). At the same time, I asked if there was anything with my performance that I should improve, or if there is anything at all I should be doing different. He said "no, not at all". But now, three pay periods later, nothing has happened. I've been told by one of the higher mechanical engineers that this is typical.
What frustrates me the most is not the money (it is maybe $180 take-home per month, not life changing). The problem is, I feel like I've been lied to, and in my opinion it is just plain insulting to tell someone they are going to get a raise, then never follow through. It is just a slap in the face. I never hesitate to put in extra hours when anything needs to get done, and only 3-4 of my unpaid overtime hours would more than pay for what I requested. I work more extra hours than that every week. Honestly, in my opinion, it equates to theft, since we had an agreement. It is no different than if I agreed to work 8-5 every day, but leave at 4.
I don't believe he has simply forgotten, since I've been told this is status quo when a raise is requested (before I ever asked). I also know that financially, it isn't a problem for the company.
How would you approach this situation with your boss? Other than this issue, our relationship is friendly, and always has been. I really feel like telling him basically what I said above, that it is insulting to me since we had an agreement but he didn't follow through, although I know that is probably not the best course of action.





RE: Raise promised, but never given...
--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Get straight to the point, mention that it has been three pays since your discussion and that you have not heard anything. State your case again why you feel you deserve the rise.
If this doesnt work then you may only have one option.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
The way it smells from here, if you don't have a contract that spells out the terms under which you will gain ownership, it probably won't happen.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Wow!!!
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Those verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Then if that deadline goes you start to understand where you stand.
Don't work till 6.00pm and don't work weekends. If you do not have a vested interest in the company then why should you care if the owner doesn't? I know this is not easy; you're either a person who looks at the clock or looks at the work to be done.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
My gut instinct says that will be never.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Dear xxxxxx,
Per our conversation on xx/xx/xx I understood you agreed I had earned a raise to $xxxx per xx. please let me know where we stand on this matter and when I could expect to see the resulting increase in my actual paycheck. Let me know if you would like to discuss the matter or my performance in general.
Thank you for your time,
xxxxxx
He may of gotten busy, forgot, passed it on to someone how has not followed through, etc. Give him the benefit of the doubt, but this time try to get an email response or write it down as he is saying it and get him to agree while knowing you wrote it down.
Good luck. Sounds like a good job with good responsibility. Keep communicating with the boss. He does not want to lose you.
ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Perhaps also ask if there is paperwork that needs to be done to finalize the deal.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Even so, I would get it on paper. Have another talk with him, remind him what he promised the last time you guys talked, and get it in writing.
If it still doesn't come through, do you really want to work for an untrustworthy owner/company?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
In the meantime, I also like Beggar's idea. If that does not work, ZCP's idea of an e-mail sounds good too. But, honestly once something like this has happened, maybe it is a sign to move on.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Maui
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Get your resume out there. Interview. When you have a better offer, lay it on the line and use the other offer as your trump card! The partner deal is the carrot he's leading you on with while he's pocketing the raises he's keeping from you.
Wise up!
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Be respectful and professional when you ask him when you can expect to see the raise he agreed to.
I personally refrain from ultimatums.
As a parallel concurrent activity, I usually decide when and how to leave in a manner that puts where I want to be, and I start a methodical execution of that plan.
Usually I determine up front what the point of no return is. If my relocation plan gets to that point before the compensation is there, I just go.
If an acceptable alternative doesn’t arise, than I just have to realize the job market isn’t going to support the raise.
That’s when you might consider lowering the quality and quantity of services rendered. Face it, it’s easier for your boss to keep you on despite a lower performance level than it will be to bring someone new in.
Use the extra time to work on credentials to get you where you want to be.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
I was at my previous position for almost three years (no, that isn't very long), and recieved 2-3 raises/year. Smallest was 3%, biggest was 10%. Starting pay was mid-forties, so the increases weren't exactly leaps and bounds. Still, it was great to know that you were appreciated, and that my pay was increasing significantly faster than inflation...which isn't happening now. My last boss offered me another raise when I left, told me he thought I was making a mistake by leaving, but said I had a job offer with them always on the table. Now sometimes I wonder if he wasn't right about the mistake part.
I know what I need to do is bring it up with my current boss in a professional manner...it just isn't that easy to do, but I'll end up doing that in the next day or two. I don't want to be a pushover. I have extraordinary job security right now, but it is still difficult to in some way confront the hand that feeds you.
I'm not looking for other jobs, I intend to stay here (unless things continue this way), but I did happen to get a call from a headhunter last week regarding a local position. I told them I wasn't actively looking right now, but I am curious about what they have to offer.
I know it isn't a "paperwork" delay. It is a small company...the checks are printed in the office. A change can be made in minutes, it is just a matter of re-calculating tax withholding, etc.
As for future ownership, it is again a small company, no real assets other than computers and software, so the cash value is very small. Once the owner retires, there aren't going to be any buyers other than the current PEs in the company. The owner will basically have to sell to them (us) or the company goes away. Right now I'm gaining now is relationships, trust & respect of our clients (which is one reason I put in a lot of effort now), and I'm just hoping this all works out in the end. Yes, it could all fall apart, but the way I see it, I have no other shots at ownership this soon. Other than starting on my own, which of course means a whole lot of risk for my family & savings.
The last two weeks I worked 55-60 hours a week. Granted, those were two of the busiest weeks ever, but nothing takes the wind out of your sails like getting another paycheck with no raise after its been promised. Today I just couldn't make myself stay much past 5.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
If not move on. Don't pin your hopes on the owner selling you a share in the company. He has not talked to you about it and thigs happen. If you are local when he retires, you probably still have an excellent chance of buying a share then. In the mean time get a job with a real boss because it does not appear your efforts are appreciated where you are. (by the way, when you get that big project taken care of for that client, who do you think your boss gives the credit to -you or him? my money is on him) There is a saying that you should never teach a pig to sing - you waste your time and annoy the pig.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Hence Beggar has it right; have a friendly word and don't make it an "issue" until you know if it is an "issue". He may just have forgotten or be waiting for you to take the initiative.
This assumes your working relationship is good and justifies you in believing he is in earnest about part ownership.
In other words, if it is honest then he will have no problem discussing it with you.
SO go talk and gauge his reaction.
If you aren't comforatble dealing with this issue with him then it doesn't bode well for a future relationship as part owner.
You also cannot afford to let things slide or show any hesitancy dealing with this issue.
#Bottom line, if you don't ask, you don't get and if you don't ask, he may wonder why and how committed you are....
ALways keep you CV/Resume out there if for no other reasons than to have a good idea of your value and to have the option to start over.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
You probably already thought of this, but just in case...
If there was a valid reason for the delay, it was up to your boss to come up to you and discuss this. For example, "hey listen, we had a problem with so and so... and you will not see the raise until next month."
Also, the raise should be retroactive, that means it should include the last few weeks (or from the moment you agreed on the raise).
I think we all agree that you need to talk to the boss. But if your gut tells you this was not a paperwork delay, this may be only the beginning of a series of problems.
Good luck,
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Let me put this idea of partial ownership out of your mind. Let's say that he gives or sells you 5% ownership. This year the company makes $100 k. So the boss gives himself a $90k bonus (he decides bonuses, he has got controlling interest). Now the profit is down to $10k, and your dividend is $500. Not a very good return on your investment. Also, regarding your statement that the only people he can sell to are his PE's, think again. Sole proprietorships have a habit ending up in the hands of wives, idiot son's, or being bought out by big competitors.
I'll be very interested in hearing what he tells you when you ask about your raise. If he is apologetic, and compensates retroactively, that says one thing. If it's another story, (we don't have the money right now, we're working on changing the payroll system, a customer hasn't paid, etc.), that says another.
My guess, from the limited info provided, is that he going to simply agree again to the raise, and not give an explanation. If he does, I urge you to clarify with him the effective date as being when he initially agreed. Not only will you get the $$ he agreed to, but then the clock for the next raise will start running from the original date.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
He agreed to one.
It seems you are talking to lots of people about your raise, none of them which matter. ;)
Brian
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
-b
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
I would actually recommmend that JigaWatt avoid a face to face if he's going to take his resentment in with him. If he's already been stewing for three pay periods, then it might be hard to leave that at the door and keep it "light and casual".
-b
RE: Raise promised, but never given...
In my location, during the era more than three years ago raises were annual at best, if you got one. However, the market is very hot in Houston. People and get a raise without any problem. Many people interview, get an offer then negotiate with the boss. I recommend against this. Two raises per year are common here these days. Three would be unusual.
RE: Raise promised, but never given...