How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
(OP)
I have a question directed mostly at native english speakers, but I'll appreciate all feedback...
I've been communicating with some Italian and Spanish engineers who speak/write understandable but horrible English, without any problem. While I was highly irritated, they didn't seem to have any issues or even percieve it as a problem, that I have to spend an hour trying to make out "what the poet meant to say".
On the other hand, I communicated with some Russian engineers who took great care about their English language being correct, and some Austrians who simply sent stuff in German rather than in, as they said, "faulty English". This caused me to go and start learning German, as we needed outside help to get the info.
Which would you prefer? Is having grammatically correct communication from foreign colleagues a big deal to you? Do you think less of colleagues who speak/write in grammatically incorrect form, even if the content is valid? (Providing eng isn't their 1st language).
I am asking because English is my 2nd language, and German my 3rd. While I'm capable of being very correct in English, my German isn't all that good. I'm unsure whether to stick to English or try and communicate in German in spite of grammar issues?
I've been communicating with some Italian and Spanish engineers who speak/write understandable but horrible English, without any problem. While I was highly irritated, they didn't seem to have any issues or even percieve it as a problem, that I have to spend an hour trying to make out "what the poet meant to say".
On the other hand, I communicated with some Russian engineers who took great care about their English language being correct, and some Austrians who simply sent stuff in German rather than in, as they said, "faulty English". This caused me to go and start learning German, as we needed outside help to get the info.
Which would you prefer? Is having grammatically correct communication from foreign colleagues a big deal to you? Do you think less of colleagues who speak/write in grammatically incorrect form, even if the content is valid? (Providing eng isn't their 1st language).
I am asking because English is my 2nd language, and German my 3rd. While I'm capable of being very correct in English, my German isn't all that good. I'm unsure whether to stick to English or try and communicate in German in spite of grammar issues?





RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
On the rare occasion that I do receive info in English, that has been written by someone who isn't a native English speaker, I appreciate their efforts and don't mind taking the little bit of extra time to decipher what they're trying to convey.
Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP2.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
How do you tell the Germans from the Americans? The Germans all speak perfect English.
Doesn't account for the Austrians, though.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
TheTick - quite right about the Germans-v-Americans.
I hear bods talking in TLA (Three Letter Acronyms) and techno-gibber all day long and I'm pretty sure a decent proportion of them don't understand what they're on about.
It also drives me crazy when they start writing that way as well. Grrr....
Do you read Bill Bryson's books?
Re - Austrians, I am reminded of his story about travelling in Europe with his friend, Katz. They met a couple of Germans on the way and spent a few days together.
They were hiking through Austria and had to hastily leave a beer house one evening when the other customers turned nasty and the local policeman proved to be among their number.
Having made good their escape, they returned to their campsite and, as the weather was so good, they decided to sleep under the stars.
Laying out in the open, I believe it was Katz that said:
"Well, Austria sure is a beautiful country."
"Yes" siad one of the Germans "However it is spoiled by just one thing"
"Oh yes" says Katz "What's that"
"It's full of f##king Austrians"
Not my words, you understand, just relating the episode in the book.
Bill
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Try using Bablefish to translate a colloquially worded email into their language. They might get the point once they see how they are being perceived for their poor translations.
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I think your first step should be to clean up your own act. The two sentences above directly contradict each other. Is it a problem or not? And check the spelling of perceive.
I have nothing but respect for anyone who can communicate in multiple languages, no matter how poorly. I'm limited to one.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Where their intent is not clear from context or from a drawing, I'll rephrase what they said, in English, and ask for confirmation, or just ask for clarification ... or I'll make a drawing and ask them if that's what they want.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I've had some serious and expensive miscommunications with Brits, Australians, and New Zealanders, all separated by a common language.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
On a side note a joke from Europe,
Q What do you call someone who speaks many languages?
A Multilingual.
Q What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A Bilingual.
Q What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
A English.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
- If they live and work in the United States, they should speak and write effectively in english.
-If they are selling something to me, they should speak and write effectively in english.
-If they are buying something from me, I will bend over backwards to understand them and give them a pass on grammar, etc.
This based on my gut feelings and being quite annoyed with some of my non native english coworkers who exibit extremely poor grammar skills.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
You're dangerously close to assuming that English speakers actually know all of the words in the language.
A distressing number of people know very few of the words - simply using the same ones over and over again irrespective of what they're actually trying to say.
A.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
“-If they are selling something to me, they should speak and write effectively in English.
-If they are buying something from me, I will bend over backwards to understand them and give them a pass on grammar, etc.”
Why exactly if they are buying something from you should you not speak and write effectively in their language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
MechanicalAnimal,
Your comment about Russian engineers reminded me of an incident with a Russian co-worker that I’ve told before. I was looking for someone to bid on an intricate bit of artwork for a project that involved historical restoration.
Yuri suggested a female artist friend of his. I was sort of half listening because it usually took a great deal of words for Yuri to get his message across. I stopped what I was doing when he described his woman friend as “doing good hand job.” Of course I asked him to elaborate and repeat what he was saying. When I understood what he was trying to say, I corrected his English and told him he should say that his friend does good hand work. Yuri was confused and asked me if ‘job’ and ‘work’ had about the same meaning.
I told him “not when the word hand is in front.” Makes me laugh every time I remember it.
I also work with a few Egyptians and one Algerian and find that they are equally careful about their English. I have a bad habit of using some colorful colloquial expressions and end up having to explain them. My latest, in reference to a project left in a terrible state by a former employee, was “polishing a turd.” (I hope I can say that here)
I thought I was doing a good job explaining the expression, until I was asked if the word turd could be used in a formal setting place of ‘sh!t.’ By that point everyone around the area was laughing. I generally enjoy trying to understand imperfect English. I never get irritated.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I assumed or presumed nothing. There's a qualifier in my statement.
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Here's the same text using Wolrdlingo translated into german. It took me a minute to write it.
Furregners“ scheinen immer, Problem zu haben, Englisch zu schreiben, in dem ihr gesprochenes Englisch im Allgemeinen gutes ist. Ich würde nicht so arrogant sein, jemand für einen Versuch mindestens bilden zu entlassen, Ihre Sprache zu verwenden, während Sie keinen Versuch bilden würden, ihr zu verwenden. Es kann nützlich sein, die nicht mit Englisch vertraut zu bitten, es in ihre Muttersprache sowie Englisch zu schreiben. Sie können Worldlingo dann verwenden, um ihre gebürtige Zunge zu Englisch zu übersetzen und dann von beiden Sätzen stellen Sie heraus dar, was sie versuchen, zu sagen. Gleichmäßig würde ich zurück mit der gleichen Methode schreiben. Sie wurden apprecaite es, wenn Sie ihre Sprache verwendeten, selbst wenn Woldlingo manchmal grammatisch sehr Schlechtes ist.
corus
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I have nothing but respect for anyone who can communicate in multiple languages, no matter how poorly. I'm limited to one."
Your response contradicts itself as well, as the first part of it is harsh and irritated, and the follow-up says you have "nothing but respect... no matter how poorly". Do you have respect or not?
... But yes, my two sentences aren't fully elaborated, so let me clarify what I meant to say:
"Their faulty English didn't present an objective problem in the final outcome of the communication in question, there was no misunderstood information, and no odd machine parts laying around.
However, it did cause a subjective problem on our (my) part because I had to waste a lot of time translating and understanding, while I could have been doing something more important. It also made me think they are being unprofessional for not sparing me this extra work."
So I suppose, perfecting a foreign language does/would bring me (or anyone else) extra "points"?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Most Russians write good English. This is because most Russians who send emails are translators. The guy behind the translator takes care not to touch the keyboard or you'd be even more irritated.
As you said, some Germans write German to the rest of the world, as if German were the internation business language. Now I may be strange but this annoys ME.
There are a couple other statements in this thread that I can't help reacting to:
"The latin based languages have simpler sentence construction rules" - heh heh... French has such compicated sentence construction rules, for example for asking questions, that simplified and very different constrcutions have appeared in oral/informal French. In writing though one is supposed to use the correct form. I don't write Italian or Spanish but assume things must be similar. I will not elaborate on Latin grammar of which everyone knows it's horribly complex.
“-If they are selling something to me, they should speak and write effectively in English.
-If they are buying something from me, I will bend over backwards to understand them and give them a pass on grammar, etc.”
This is very true, and everybody who questions these statements is definitely not involved in sales
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
"English has 10 times as many words as most other languages on this planet" - !!! please bring data! this statement is really fascinating
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Have a look at:
http://
They say, about 250,000 words.
However, other sources, for example:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/howmany.htm
suggest that there may be two or three times this, depending on how you care to count them.
Bill
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
“-If they are selling something to me, they should speak and write effectively in English.
-If they are buying something from me, I will bend over backwards to understand them and give them a pass on grammar, etc.”
Why does the opposite not apply?
If I am selling to them, I should speak and write effectively in their language.
To expect one thing when it works in your favour, but to tolerate something less when it does not seems very arrogant to me and yes I do work in sales amongst other things.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
OK if you mean the statement should be generalised to non-English speaking buyers, I totally agree with that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
It also depends on what it is you are trying to communicate. If it is the way a nuclear reactor should work, then I would say it is rather important that the detailed message is clear concise and agreed up-front which language it should be in. If it is general discussion that is not critical if it is slightly wrong, then of course any error from a non-native English speaker should be taken without too much of a problem.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Your links tell me first of all that the question how many words exist in English (or other languages) is impossible to answer. The first link mentions English has been greatly influenced by French conquest in the 11th century. Sure, but this is no basis for comparison whatsoever - one should count how much French has been influenced by English (why would that be any less?) and by any other languages, then one should do the same for other world languages before claiming that English has more words (the number 10 times appears to be based on absolutely nothing) than other world languages.
This is no English-speaker bashing and I happily wish you guys a bigger vocabulary than other people's, I just don't like bold statements with an uncertain basis...
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
English gets many of its grammar rules from French. I believe French is unusually complex. But from the Spanish speakers I know and discussed this with, grammar is more particular in english than in spanish. Of course, the rest of the world thinks us English speakers talk backwards. :)
Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Why exactly if they are buying something from you should you not speak and write effectively in their language?
Because fair or not, English is the global language. Even when non native english speakers are communicating, they often do so in english.
We have a couple Indian guys consulting in our office. They told me their office back in India, they speak english in any formal communication, including inter office verbal conversations. All documentation is done in english.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Ultimately, I had to learn some Urdu, and that helped a lot. I think the key is to know that there could be something missing in the communication of ideas and to key in on the other person's response.
MechanicalAnimal,
When you are trying to understand what they meant to say, do you ask them, or do you walk away confused and try to figure it out on your own? I wouldn't walk away until I fully understood. One way to do that is to repeat everything they said to you back to them, but the way you understood it, maybe even elaborate a little where you felt that they left stuff out. If you're wrong, they'll probably notice and fill in the blanks.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
When good attitudes prevail, we have had enjoyable experiences and success in overcoming the technical problems of the project in spite of our language barriers.
Although sometimes there is a frustration level on the part of both me and my counterpart during the process, I count these experiences as enjoyable after the fact.
old field guy
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
What makes you think that one who speaks fluent English knows what he is talking about for technical matters?
If I were to solve a technical problem, I would like to have a technical expert handle it than a english scholar.
It is obvious that you felt irritated because "they" were not communicating flawlessly with you in "your" language. Did you spare a thought for their feelings when you did not even attempt to speak "their" language?? How rude were you? If you had learned spanish or italian, by you could have solved the "your" problem by yourself.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
While in Rome, we had a visit from a young Japanese sales guy who gave us a presentation in really bad spoken English. Afterwards, he asked for my opinion. I told him that the presentation was good but his poor grasp of English let him down. About 18 months later, he arrived at our offices again and this time spoke to us in clear, concise, accentless English. Afterwards I complimented him on the improvement and he said, "Thank you Bennett-san for your previous recommendation. It cost me a great deal of money to improve. I feel all the better for it and I'm selling more of my products because of it."
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I wasn't trying to speak Italian and I don't think I hurt anyone's "feelings" by arranging the communication in English because my first language is Croatian and English is as foreign to me as it is to them. It would be stupid for me to learn Italian and for Italians to learn Croatian, as these are very "small" languages, when we can both learn English of German and be able to communicate with a great majority of people who use these languages.
It is very common in my practice, as I'll communicate in any language both of the considered parties speak (for instance I do Croatian, German and English, my boss also does French and Russian, so we choose what both parties know best as means of communication with different partners.
I didn't ask the question of expertise because that isn't/wasn't the issue. The problem I was trying to address was focused on the fact that an expert with a sufficient knowledge of matter in question can make construction flaws because he failed to communicate his ideas in an appropriate way. People who speak faulty language might think they're saying something right, while they're saying something totally different (I know a guy who thought "feet" was an English word for "meter" !!!)
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
ROFL!!! Oops, not all will understand that..
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
According to this, I wasn't wrong, only not completely accurate.
This DOES, in fact, proove the point that language SHOULD be perfected... In spite of the fact most of you keep SAYING that perfection in language isn't necessary, every time I made a mistake you people mocked me - even if I repeatedly said I wasn't a native English speaker. So obviously, I can conclude that this issue is VERY important to you, even if you'd rather if you were more liberal... Thanx for all the help, it was very insightful! :) :)
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
No, it just means that people who complain about mistakes are subjected to a higher standard.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
You missed to comment on misspelled "tolenrant" or may be you are missing the whole picture!.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Now, I do work for SKF, ABB, Siemens and many other international companies. English in meetings, reports, mails, everywhere. The fun in mastering several languages is slowly fading away when English is taking over. But it is very practical. And I think that it is a much better situation than trying to talk to each other in broken Swedish, Finnish or what have you.
The situation is a little like the Microsoft Dominance. Most people complained about it. But Bill made us do things the same way and using compatible tools. That is a big advantage.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Tell me about it...
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
You really are not very informed about the rest of the world are you.
English is one of the official languages of India and is spoken by most educated people, the reason why they speak it in the office is because out of the 2 or 3 languages that most of them speak, this may be the only one the whole office has in common.
Oh, and once you get through the thick accent, I have found that most of them speak better english than the average American.
csd
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I have a lot of German aircraft repair manuals. At the end of each one, is a statement by the translator, " This document has been translated to the best of my ability. But in any case the original German text is authoritative." I have always taken this to mean that If I did not like his/her translation I was free to get my own.
B.E.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
To me this means that, in the event of a dispute, the original German language documents take legal precedence in a Court of Law.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
All went very well but at the final negotiations, a professional simultaneous translator was brought in to provide an official translation. I was mighty impressed by his ability.
The lesson was simple, when it matters, do it right and protect your backside.
On another occasion I was in the Alsace area where the expected host was not available and the engineer I dealt with had no English and we were reliant on my very very basic French and German and a form of sign language we invented as we went along! Fine for a basic understanding but we would neither of us have put our jobs on the line based on the "discussion".
Re contracts, the best advise I ever got was from the companies legal expert who said, if you want the business and you think you can deliver, don't worry about the contract, you can accept most terms if you have to, (and build in a cost of you must) but most important, he said, is agree on a country where the dispute is to be resolved that is where you would be happy to spend a holiday.
At a conference in Germany, the Canadian delegate explained a situation where one of their French Canadians and French national spoke English to each other as each claimed not to be able to understand the others French.
He gave an example of the expression "sou coup" was a saucer to the one (going under the cup) and a sauce dish to the other.
My Brother in law, who learnt Spanish in Barcelona and lives and works in LA explained that one word in Spanish can have many different pronunciations according to the speakers native Spanish.
Incidentally, in some parts of the USA, the dominant primary language is Spanish and in some states it is a requirement of teachers, for example, that they are bilingual.
And now we come to English and here we need to know who's English is the the gold standard; England's English is a minority sub-set and a growing set is the European "English as a second language" variety to ad to all the others.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I'm rather fond of Indian English, for no particular reason.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Never heard of Queens English?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I know that it is a small minority from the standards of English now evident on the BBC. This is, of course, a diminishing spiral as the standard of English broadcast affects the standard within the general population.
For example, 25 years of Australian soaps have had a profound effect on the English language.
The English are none too protective of their language which is not the case with the French who are serious about protecting those things thy consider French, not least their language. Purists quiver with righteous indignation when terms like "le weekend" "le Jumbo" enter the language.
We could argue that some of those who find that the best way to subsidise their foreign holidays is to obtain a TEFAL qualification do the language a great disservice; I heard of one Japanese businessman who learned his English from a TEFAL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language) student only to discover, on his first visit to London, that he had acquired a broad Glaswegian accent.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
It is truth generally acknowledge that we are able to write a terrible English. Last summer I read Far from the madding crowd and Pride and prejudice to improve my grammar skills without any visible result. I tried to do my best.
http://NotOnlyBridges.blogspot.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
http://NotOnlyBridges.blogspot.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Hi,
English is my second language. I would say that I'm good in both writing and speaking. My writing skill was enhanced through reading. I noticed that I can write better than some native speakers. In fact, lots of native speakers are poor spellers. Even those who have good education have trouble with spelling.And I think that's a shame.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I think if I can not make it correct I will at least respect others.
Forever Young
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
As long as I can understand what someone is trying to say, without ambiguity then I am grateful for the effort in trying to speak English, and you cannot assume that poor English skills relate to poor engineering or other skills.
If I had to speak to someone with no English then I wouldn't read too much into it, if it was someone I was trying to contact then I would get someone from within the organisaton to translate, whereas if it was someone trying to sell me something then not using English would just make it easier to ignore, which is often a good thing!
Rich
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
English is not a perfect language. I know many English tongue people telling that it is crazy. Many times you get confuse if you do not know which them someone is talking about. Grammar has so strange rules and pronunciation has many waves. I know many Natives English tongue taking English classes after several years to get a ticket to a College.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
If you compare England with America we have different ways of spelling colour, metre, centre, tyre and gauge for example. From an automotive point of view to an American bonnet, boot, wing and will all have different meanings as to an English person hood, trunk and fender will.
So is it even possible to send the same letter or email to an English person and an American in perfect English? That is before you get into grammar and the many mistakes I am sure I have made. What chance does someone stand if it is not his or her native language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
It didn't have those phrases such as "I would like to buy this bridge. How much is it?" but a nice list of "fawcett = tap", "Pavement = sidewalk" conversions ajack1 mentions and some guidance on customs such as how to order beer in a pub without offending the locals.
Of course there is greater familiarity these days but there are still occasions when you get caught out.
I remember once in a store in Georgia, buying some trousers ("dress" pants) and wanting them with turn-ups. It took a considerable amount time while the assistant kept repeating "Turn-ups?" every time I said it.
I resorted to the standard English approach with foreigners of enunciating clearly and loudly and praying that repetition and increasing volume would finally get it through what I wanted.
Say what you like, this technique does work because after a while that light bulb over her head switched on and exclaimed: "Oh, you mean "cuffs"!"
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
It is a problem when there are different terms for the same thing such as Bonnet/Hood Turn-ups/cuffs (as you were in Georgia jmw I'm surprised you didn't get a plate of turnips).
But when the same word is used for related but vastly different things, the confusion can become hazardous. I was prepared for the 10% difference in ton(nes), but when I was told our new lime silo was being constructed of 6mil metal, I couldn't help picturing 20 tonnes of lime tearing it's way through a tin foil silo bottom.
6 mil= 6/1000 inch or 6/1000 metre, big difference.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I normally ask (non English) friends & colleagues if they want English language correction. Once you get to the 90% point in a foreign language, the last 10% is very hard to learn otherwise.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
My second language is portuguese, my third spanish and my third german. My first language is Louisiana cajun french accented english.
Strangest meeting I ever attended and participated in was with german engineers from a german Hx manufacturer trying to explain their equipment to a customer consisting of a mixture of cajun french english speaking maintenance personnel, hispanic process operators, and english only speaking (but devoid of engineering knowledge) management personnel.
I had to keep slipping the correct english or spanish words in when the germans would say walve for valve, or wapor for vapor or herein for in here. Then I would have to translate the french colloqualisms back to standard english when the cajuns would speak (I'm going to brought this up to the front burner-I am going to move this to the front burner) and for some of the spanish speakers I had to translate it all both ways.
All of this was within 60 miles of New Orleans in the USA.
True story; Last year I was eating breakfast in my hotel in the midlands of England and I could understand everything being said by 4 mexican engineers at the next table while I couldn't understand even half of what the two english waiters chatting by my table were saying.
rmw
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
I also read (filtration eng.)that English is the nr.1
global language, is that really true?
I thought that is Spanish, and maybe by now Chinese.
What is the word for 'meter' in your language?
It is meter in many European languages.
Greetings to you all,
p.s. some of You are a little intolerant, I think.
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
An apocryphal story from the early days of machine translation said that
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak",
became
"The whisky is good, but the meat has gone bad.",
when translated from English to Russian and back.
The word for 'meter' is 'meter', sometimes spelled 'metre' to signal unambiguously that it's a unit of length, because 'meter' has other meanings in English.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
Very agree comunicatoin very immportant!
Engineers correct using Eglish very impotant!
We very careful witting User Intrusions and Band Hooks to teach user know how use us product!
Us staffs all have training class hlep to write best Hand Books!
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
“I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
FOETS
"sacoil dknerir wtih a ginflog plorbem"
Cheers
luis
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
WITH DIFFICULTY
Tah dah.
Seriously though, at my place we have a lot of customers in APAC and correspondingly a lot of field staff there too.
Their level of English is not fantastic and my only other language is a spattering of French.
It makes trying to support them very difficult.
I've also had to work with Italians, whose English was better but not perfect. That was a bit easier but still lead to miscomunication at times.
If you can muddle through do whatever it takes but with my field support I'll email a question to clarify the problem and get no response, they don't even say "I no understand please make more simple" or something like that. Our in house tech support doesn't have much more luck. I can't help thinking we need to resolve this, either get a translator service or make sure the people we hire can speak English.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
RE: How do you percieve an engineer communicating in faulty language?
We did a little work with the French at my last place and mine wasn't good enough so we got a translation service.
My point is that if a company wants to sell products or work with people that don't have the same language they need to bridge the gap. Either hire staff that do speak the lingo or get a translation service.
Getting local field support staff that speak the local lingo but not enough english to effectively comunicate with the factory is a problem. They either need to hire people there who speak English, replace me or someone at the factory with someone that speaks the various APAC languages or get a translation service to help.
This isn't an issue of me thinking English is better and everyone else should learn it. I'm somewhat ashamed my French isn't better but even if it was it wouldn't be much help with our APAC staff.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...