San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
(OP)
Can we use the overpass collapse in San Francisco to direct attention to the infrastructure nation-wide that needs to be replaced? Sure, age and maintenance neglect didn't cause the failure, but it shows what happens when highways are unexpectedly out of commission.





RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
In a way the failure is a good thing. There are some improvements that can be made to the maze and now with the governor declaring this an emergency, all the red tape is cut and the project can proceed.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
I don't know if tankers are allowed to cross bridges here and I don't recall ever seeing one, but I travel the Golden Gate mostly. There are a lot of restrictions on that bridge.
This guy wasn't on the Bay bridge. It looks like he was headed south on I80 at the I880 SB interchange on his way from Benicia going to a location in Oakland. He was on a lower roadway when he turned over destroying the upper ramp that goes to the Bay Bridge. It's in an area called the MacArthur Maze and I'm not sure I have a clear picture of the exact piece of roadway that was destroyed. Efforts to log onto many of the local traffic sites has been fruitless today. Lots of people checking routes.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
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"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
but other opportunities can be realized as a result of the accident. The 6 mos closure of the highway will force many people to take mass transit or carpool or relocate- the event can be viewed as a step-change reduction in road access to the public, and accurate data on its impact to the traffic patterns for the associated highways and cities can be used by traffic planners .
A similar event occurred in London 10 yrs ago- they deliberately ( and permanently) closed down bridges and roads in order to reduce traffic flow and force commuters to use other means of getting to work- and the traffic behaved exactly as planned- and they reduced traffic thru London. Exactly the reverse of teh usuall mens of doing business / politics in high growth areas of the US.
The normal procedure is for politically connected persons to buy inacessible land, influence politicians to build a highway to or thru the land , develop the land and then reap a profit. As soon as the traffic on the highway is heavy enough to generate public complaints, then further expand the highway. This expansion leads to more traffic , as well as jobs for those that build and maintain the highway. So the decision to expand or build highways is normally tied to development of the land ( and highway jobs) and accomodating more car traffic, IN THE CASE WHERE UNCONSTRAINED GROWTH OF CAR TRAFFIC IS OK. For the case where one desires a rerduction in car trafic, the same logic can be used in reverse, as shown in London. But one would still need to face the music of angry commuters , landowners, and the roadway industry.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
The Law of Supply and Demand reigns supreme.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
For example, the town I grew up in in the UK had a population of around 150,000 but only 2 junctions onto the highway that run next to it. One a few miles to the south of town and one a few miles to the north. To get from one side of the town to the other you didn't get on the highway. It had a completely separate 4 lane internal 'ring road' for getting around the town itself.
Compare this to say Santa Barbara where the 101 has something like 12 junctions for Santa Barbara + some for Goleta & Motecito on either side. It doubles as the main cross town route.
I always wondered if separating these flows of traffic would help, I guess relevant Civil Engineers would know best though.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
The problem isnt awareness as much as it is how do we pay for it. Americans want better roads but are not willing to pay for it!
Taxes on gasoline in the US are some of the lowest in the western world and the at pump prices are some of the lowest outside the middle east. You think that $3 a gallon is a big amount, but in the UK they pay abot $2 per liter which equates to about $7.50 a gallon.
I dont think the they should raise the taxes to anything like the UK, but my point is that if the consumer wants better maintenance of roads then they will have to pay for it.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
Much of it's considered a 'sin' tax and just goes in the general tax fund.
As to the the separate roads, in the UK they went through a stage of building by-passes around towns in cases where the major route already went through town and was used for local traffic. The 'old road' typically continued to be used by local traffic while the by-pass just had one or two junctions to the city and was used mainly by long distance traffic. The 2 I can think of definitely improved traffic flow although environmentalists got upset by the trees etc that got cut down. Weren't cheap either and the roadworks while they built them were miserable.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
The current proposal to charge a huge bridge toll at all hours is anti blue collar- it has not effect on hi earners and does not encourage carpooling.
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
http://www.startribune.com/587/story/1343631.html
RE: San Francisco Overpass Failure- Opportunity for Attention?
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