Your grades in university and where you are now
Your grades in university and where you are now
(OP)
Hey there,
What are your thoughts on how well you did in university and where you are now? Do you think you would have a better job if you worked harder and got better grades? Anyone ever fail a course and felt that it shut doors?
What are your thoughts on how well you did in university and where you are now? Do you think you would have a better job if you worked harder and got better grades? Anyone ever fail a course and felt that it shut doors?





RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I have been very sucessful as an engineer, but I graduated with a 2.7 GPA, and I flunked and had to re take both calc 2 and calc 3 (but I really knew it after all that). I made A's and B's in all my engineering classes.
Failing those math classes and having less than a 3.0 GPA definately shut some doors. The company I work for now never would have hired me straight out of school with my transcript. The experience I gained in my first job out of school opened those doors right back up again.
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
If I had got a First (UK style scoring) then I suppose I might have been offered a couple of jobs I went for but didn't get, but I have my doubts. On the other hand I took the first year very seriously and I think that gave me a good grounding for the other two years, which were more interesting and so less mind-numbing.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
corus
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
My work record now speaks for itself and very soon I'll be a chartered chemical engineer (if the application for chartership goes well). I don't think better or higher qualifications would help in my chosen path but it would probably be necessary if I changed industry. The year of working pre-university has been more significant than the degree certificate.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
"when you make your first million, don't forget who helped get you there."
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
At this point in my career, the only regret I have is not going into finance...
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
One other aspect that isn't mentioned is the confidence that high grades give you going into interviews (at least that first job out of college). When you know your GPA is higher than 95%-99% of the other fresh grads applying for the same job you are, it gives you a confidence (don't let it turn into cockiness) and that comes accross good to employers.
I think good grades get your foot in the door, but after that it is all up to you to excel.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
If I worked harder and got better grades, I probably would have gone to work for an aerospace company or maybe defense contractor and might have stayed in the design field. In hindsight, I do not have any regrets, I enjoy the field I am in now and can do design work if I want to, but most importantly, I have alot of control over my current position as well as future. Listening to a lot of the gripeing (sp?) on this and other sites, I think it is a blessing I did not get the job I expected when I entered college.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Didn't really do much for me 2.5 yrs later when I got burnt out and spent a year as a bicycle messenger:)
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Couldn't work out why I failed even the subjects I enjoyed and thought I understood.
Turned out I had dyslexia after I got tested a few months into my final year. That said, if I'd had a less active social (or should I say drinking) life I probably could have got a 2:1 or stayed on the MEng even with the dyslexia.
I think maybe I missed one internship because of my grades (5 of us applied for 2 positions, they liked everyone except me so much that they actually gave all the others position) but I don’t think I missed any jobs. In fact I only recall one or two places asking for my grades and I got to the interview stage for them none the less.
In terms of my career it hasn’t really held me back, I don’t think anyone’s asked about my grades for a long time. In fact when my current manager found out about my fairly low grades he was surprised and has started using my as the poster child of “good grades don’t necessarily make a good engineer/employee” when interviewing interns etc.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Go Nebraska!
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
In fact as others have said once you're a couple of years into your career no one will probably care about your grades let alone which school.
In the UK there is the stigma about traditional universities and what were 'polytechnics' but I don't know that most employers care too much.
There will always be rivalries and people will tend to think their school was better than the rival but I'd hope it isn't realy a major factor in hiring/firing. I'd be interested in anyones first hand accounts though.
(Just remembered, we have an intern program they were looking at changing and one of the justifications was that certain people wanted interns from their old school, so I guess that's a first hand example.)
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I went to Silicon Valley to do contract work with a group of about 6 others from the Midwest. We went to "nice" midwestern schools like Iowa, Wisconsin, Marquette, & MSOE. Most of the engineers at Apple were from MIT, Stanford, or UCSJ.
It was apparent that the MIT and Stanford guys had a better education. They learned things we never covered. I was a bit jealous. I had my chance and let it go past.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
TTFN
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
i've never really thought about it, but i guess i can see where someone would.
besides....UW-Madison is in the top 20, isn't it not?
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
i checked US news and world report and basically they ask the deans of engineering their opinions.
i've seen my university be anywhere from top 3 to top 5 to top 10 in the past 10 years. it's pretty much a crap shoot and it's always pretty much the same schools in there, just interchangeable.
personally, i don't think it matters as much.....but i've had people size me up just because of it.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I beleive the big name colleges have a lot to offer partly because of all the great research grants the professors bring to the learning process.
When I worked for a large defense firm in the Silicon Valley we would get summer interns from the large "big name" colleges. I remember these two guys from Syracuse. All they did all summer long was goof off and flaunt their privileged lifestyle.
I went to CSUS where their was no research grants but one of the professors (Joe Harralson) was building a landspeed record streamliner bike. Their were about ten of us that were true "gear heads" that jump started the campus SAE club by winning the 1994 SAE Mini-Baja competition. I am sure a lot of CSUS engineering grads could attribute part of their sucess to Joe Harralson. I know I do.
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
For instance there was a ranking for all the Aeronautical Engineering Departments at all the universities in the UK that had an aero dept. My University was in the top 5 when I was there.
Every few years there was an assesment carried out to determine these rankings, I can't remember if it primarily focused on research or if it was a general ranking.
However, when it comes to hiring I suspect in reality it's more down to personal prejudice such as "I went to this school so that's the best" or general reputation. I'm sure most most people would rate Oxford or Cambridge more highly than my school (University of Southampton) even though if I recal correctly Oxford didnt' offer Aero and Cambridge wasn't that highly ranked.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Still, if you want a job in this state, it is a good school to be from.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
In a way the most important skill to have as an engineer is being able to dumb it down to a manageable level.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Did you mean to say "dumb it down to management level" or am I off base?
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
TTFN
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Regarding school reputation, it seems to be mostly an issue of who comes for on-campus interviews for graduating seniors and who offers internships.
Also, when the program is viewed highly by big-name companies, it usually means very good lab facilities to go along with it because of big donations.
Working on a research project for my first company led me to some CalTech labs. I was blown away by the sophistication of some of what they had there in terms of wind-tunnel and water-tunnel testing facilities.
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
There's been some talk in this thread about whether it matters where one goes to school. In structures, I think it matters tremendously. Many schools don't offer a lot of structural engineering design classes. Guys who took 2-3 classes each in steel, concrete, foundations, and wood (in my experience) have a much deeper knowledge, even 5-6 years down the road, than the fellows who learned those subjects on the job. I have been involved in the hiring process a few times and we gave the school and number of design courses a lot of weight.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I started a thread recently about how employers view a distance education master's degree. Do you feel that the number of courses you mention above matter if they are taken as grad or undergrad courses? I am currently debating enrolling in a grad program, but it would have to be a distance education program for me to be able to complete it (family considerations). I have had 2 concrete classes, 2 steel classes, 2 analysis classes, 1 foundation class, and a very intensive senior project. I did not have any wood or masonry classes, but have done a significant amount of reading on the subjects.
What would be your advice on a master's program and any deficincies I might have.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I'm not sure if it matters when you take the classes. It might be a little better to take them during your MS program, but I doubt that it matters much. You have a wider perspective at this point in your life, so might've gotten a little more out of them, but I'd assume that you got plenty considering your GPA.
I don't know exactly what's involved in a distance education MS, but I'd not be quick to discount it. We had several folks in my ESM vibrations class last year (I'm back in school for PhD after 9 years of work). They did all the work that we did!
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
i've had about 3 or 4 courses a peice on those subjects you spoke combined grad and undergrad of except for masonry and wood. but i learned enough of those two to pass the Structural 1.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
As far as work goes, a PhD program is easier than working in a consulting office.
Believe it or not, the math comes right back. I started out with vibrations in the engineering mechanics dept, so had differential equations and eigenvalues up to my eyeballs almost from day one. In no time, though, I was a lot better at that stuff than I ever was in my BS or MS program. I'm doing vibe research, so I've had to take a lot of ME classes also. Still, that's not too bad.
BY FAR the biggest challenge is not having enough deadlines and clients breathing down my neck. Research can become about like a treadmill (a lot of work, but not really getting anywhere) if one's not careful!
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I don't have any reason to believe that you have deficiencies, based on having multiple design classes already. Obviously more design classes are always a good thing, so I'd jump all over them if they're offered.
In general, a lot of structural guys are weak at dynamics, so have trouble understanding floor vibrations, EQ stuff beyond equivalent lateral forces, and wind beyond rigid bldgs. I know I sure fell into this category. If you don't have it already, you should try to get a super strong background in structural dynamics and vibrations. If your university offers a vibe class, usually in the ESM or ME dept, that would be good. If there's an EQ-specific class, that would be great too. I'd prefer both if possible, even though there's some overlap. Those subjects are hard enough to warrant some of it twice. The ESM and ME versions get into things that the CE EQ classes don't.
If you don't have it already, you should try to get a very strong background in matrix structural analysis and, secondarily, finite element analysis that's specific to structures. Don't get bogged down in porous media and other stuff not relevant to your work.
If you're not planning a thesis option, I'd recommend some technical writing also. If you're like most of us, you're a so-so writer after undergrad. More practice at that can never hurt. Aside from reports and memos, you might get involved in committee work at some point and need to develop text, examples, etc.
Same goes for public speaking. You might want to give seminars or presentations over the years. I can think of some very famous and noteworthy SEs out there who could use some work in these areas, LOL!
Anyway, these are the types of things I'd be thinking about.
FWIW, two of my friends, both PEs at this point, did their MS part time while working. It worked out great!
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I actually have a B.S. in Structural Design. I didn't have to take the transportation, environmental, or other non-structural classes associated with a traditional CE degree.
Thank you very much for your input and insight, I sincerely appreciate it!!
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
My theory is that in lower quality schools it is easier to memorize and regurgitate on tests without really knowing the subject. Most tests are just slight variation of the homework and many just work for the grade.
Contrast to a high quality school where the fundamental knowledge is tested and required for graduation.
I had a roomate who took controls and after his final exam could not give me an example of a control system. He had now idea what all that chaos was about but he made the grade.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Ditto universities.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
But seriously, in the UK at least, a quality school can be measured by its entry standards. A kind of positive feedback loop really.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I would be curious to know how you determine what, in your opinion, constitutes a "higher quality" or a "lower quality" school and how you would make such a generalization that the tests at a "lower quality" school test your ability to regurgitate information rather than know the subject matter.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I don't mean to offend. I know that many of you come from the (Big State School) and so do I. But I cannot deny that there is a significant variablility in the quality of this group as opposed to the quality of the higher prestige schools. Just reporting my observations.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Some of these fancier places don't have enough students to offer a lot of classes, especially practical design classes. This is a big deal, IMO, in structural engineering.
Almost to a person, my former co-workers who went to big state schools had tremendously stronger backgrounds than the half-dozen or so of them who went to fancy $25k+/year private schools.
That's simply because the big state schools offered multiple design classes (like 10-15 in some cases) whereas the smaller private schools offered 1 or 2, and in some case 1 that was half concrete, half steel.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I am not offended. I am certainly not comparing my education to that of an MIT grad. I still don't know how you track consistency and abilities of grads other than an anecdotal sort of thing. That being said, you really think that "Big State Schools" provide an atmosphere where tests merely require regurgitation of information provided in class? I guess that could be said for all schools since you MUST apply what you learned in class to pass the tests, but certainly not what you are stating.
I went to a "Small State School" (actually a branch of a "Big State School" because it offered a B.S. in Structural Design instead of CE) and my professors were very no-nonsense, the classes were very intensive, and while some people made it through without soaking up all the information they should have, they didn't do it with very good grades.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Of course I cannot speak for all BSS (Big State Schools).
My observations of those in my area are as follows.
Many of the graduates have a solid backing and understanding of what the theory meant and how to initially apply it. In other words they could be given a task and then at least know what corner to look in to find the missing pieces.
Many of the graduates also displayed a remarkable ability to talk the talk but not walk the walk. They could carry on for long periods citing the tech buzzwords but any experienced person listening is struck by how increadibly far off the mark they were. They apply the wrong branch of their training to problems that they have been assigned. They are incapable of finding a proper starting point to analyze the problem further. I'm not talk rocket science either. Basic, basic stuff. One feels embarrasement for them when you are forced to suggest "Go look at this type of analysis" F=ma or Ohms law or any of the other pillars of a engineering program.
And yes some of my classes were taught by profs that required you to have a grasp of the topic. The test problems were like nothing you had exactly seen before and without the fundamentals you were toast. I also had many classes where the tests were the homework problems with diffent values for the parameters. People passed without getting a glimps of the big picture. Didn't get any tools with which to analyze problems but they made the grade.
That is what I don't think happens in the more reputable engineering schools.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Big state schools are very often very reputable. Like I typed, I had quite a few co-workers from $25k+/year, very famous, private schools who started out deficient compared to the folks from BSS. Granted, I'm typing about a sample size of <20 engineers.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
i.e. Illinios, GT, Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, ECT. the list goes on and on.
i would hardly say that you would lose very much comparing #7 to #5 or even #1 or #2.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
At the same time, if I have two openings and give them both interviews, then the school wouldn't matter as much. Still though, the possibility of alumni tickets to a big game might help. jk.
BTW, what is ECT?
To the OP, I found grades helped a lot of people get jobs with the bigger companies. I am not sure if that is a good thing or not, if everyone at the company has the same grades then you will need something else to set you apart from everyone else when promotions come about.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
not that i don't have anything to be proud of, lol....but seems like something stupid to base a promotion off of.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Every employer wants an above employee. Most people, when asked, usually believe that they are above average. In reality, most people are probably average - and I think that is okay.
There is usually very few really above average people, and there is usually very few really below average people - most people are usually fairly average.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
As a young electrical engineer interested in power, I think I got hired because I had a pulse and could fog a spoon when placed in front of my mouth. If that isn't true, when all the senior power employees retire at the same time it will be.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I have zero idea if I'd be here today if I went to another school, or for that matter, if getting higher marks would mean I'd be better off. It's a guess on anyone's part.
But I'm happy where I am (for the most part), I'm in grad school doing a M.Eng part-time and I have my P.Eng (P.E. for the yanks). And the company I'm working for now never even saw my transcript/marks.
I think the degree is 95% (or higher) of the value, and the marks/school only matters a bit.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Having said that, I do know that of a fantastic job (imo) that required a really high average to even get an interview. A friend of mine got that job and it still seems like an incredible position.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Being an engineer kicks a lot of butt, especially compared to serving rich people seafood they can't pronounce.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
My boss recently asked me about a person he was planning on interviewing. This guy was a 3.9+ GPA type and gradutated from the same school in the same year as me. When asked...all I could say was: "Well..he blew all the curves on test, sat in the front row, never missed class, and was one of the first to catch a prof's mistake on the board".
I was amazed that this guy was considering a position equal with my own in a small company. Shouldn't he be "fast tracking" in big-company-corporate-America somewhere?
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Maybe he likes small companies.
I sat in the back row of the class, not the front, but I was one of those who had a 4.0 GPA, blew the curves, etc. I took a rinkydink state job because it was geographically convenient and the work was interesting.
Hg
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Based on the engineers from my graduating class good grades and the EIT certification were of little to no help at all. Many of my friends did not pass the FE and had grades well below mine. However, they received jobs much sooner, and unlike me they received jobs they actually wanted within their field of interest! So, what did help? Internship experience that was relevant to the job they were applying for.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I managed passes (barely) in subjects I wasn't interested in but couldn't say I benefited from the experience.
My all time best for a subject - no lectures attended, no notes taken, no study groups participated in, didn't even know I was enrolled in the subject (Advanced Dynamics) after my course adviser told me I was supposed to take it next semester, but didn't tell admissions. Found out the day before that yes, I was enrolled, yes I have to pay for it and yes, the exam is 9:00AM tommorrow. Passed through the numb, oh sh*t, procrastinative stage that a few in this thread would know well by watching Conan the Barbarian on television. Opened text book 10:30PM and found out I liked the coursework, worked through the night on the end of chapter questions. Turned up at exam having slept 1 hour and ended up doing well. Passed the subject, subject matter forgotten by that afternoon.
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
US grades are (typically) on a 4.0 scale.
4.0 'A'
3.0 'B'
2.0 'C'
1.0 'D'
0.0 'Fail'
Many schools also offer grades such as A/B (3.5) or B+ (3.33) as well.
I can't speak for all schools so I'll use mine as an example:
-You could be kicked out of the engineering program with a GPA less than 2.5
-A GPA of at least 3.0 was required for admission to all graduate programs (and the average GPA of students accented to graduate school there was 3.4)
-Big name companies (GE, 3M, etc) recruiting at the school would usually require a GPA of 3.5 or better.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
For some engineering jobs such as "field engineering" on big nuke jobs etc a lower gpa seems to be a hidden advantage due to the fact that skilled trades (iron workers, pipe fitters, carpenters etc) seem to eat the 4.0 student/smart kid types for lunch. Big construction jobs are like a combination of a prison and a middle school playground as far as social etiquette goes so having some people skills helps when dealing with the "trades" QC and QA. Field engineering is a whole branch of engineering from design engineering that universities cover. But these people skills usually go hand in hand with a lower GPA. That is my experience. But to cap off this rant a lower GPA and a few F's on the report card should not keep you from finding a good job.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
It is illogical, and at least in my experience, irrelevant.
I've never noticed that stupid, or lazy, people are more socially adept than clever, or hardworking, people. Have you, as a rule?
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
A few F's would absolutely kill your GPA. Where I work, not only do they expect you to come from a good school, but you are also expected to have impeccable grades.
I am sure there are smaller engineering companies that do cool projects that don't care as much; however, as a general rule a few F's would easily kill your chances at getting a "really good" job at a "really good" firm.
I had a somewhat difficult time getting my job (which is fantastic) just because my program is somewhat unknown (and my overall GPA was 3.86, technical GPA 3.92). If I had had "a few F's", I never would have been offered this job.
I recently had my 1-year review and it was outstanding! I think my boss was completely surprised at how I have performed given that I was coming from a smaller program and did not have a master's.
The bottom line is that your grades definitely help you get your first job, after that it is up to you.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I was drawing way too broad of generalizations about people. Let me back track, I have worked for three companies that are ENR top 30 contractors over the last 15 years and their recruiters had specific criteria for specific jobs. The desired skill set for "field engineers" they recruited was different than the desired skill set for the "design engineers". Most people did not get offered jobs in both areas. Usually one or the other. And one of the "possible" indicators of these skill sets was GPA. The people doing the design engineering "generally" had higher GPA's than the "field engineers" out on the project site. Most of the field engineers were 2.3 to 3.0 gpa's. Almost to a person. And from what i was told "design engineers" were generally 3.0 GPA and up. This seemed to be the way one company recruited. (they are usually #1 or #2 in the ENR contractor rankings.) I know if they wanted to hire only 3.5 GPA or above for field engineering positions they could do it as they recruit nationally.
For what ever reasons there was a marked difference in the GPA's of "field engineers" vs "design engineers." And when they interviewed me coming out of school they did not even blink at my low GPA for a field engineering job but for a design engineering job on the same project i was not their guy.
And granted a low GPA has probably gotten my resume sent to a monstrous number of round files over the years (i am sure of this) but i have also had great jobs with ENR top 30 contractors also, where my skill set fit with their needs and GPA was not a factor.
I guess part of my point was there are a lot of people with 2.2 gpa's working for Bechtel, Kiewit, Washington Group, Fluor, Parsons etc. (great companies) and a low GPA does not mean you are doomed to work the swing shift at Ed's Pizza, Engineering and Concrete in Fort Dodge, Iowa for eternity. There are great jobs out there for people with low GPA's. GPA is not the end all be all of getting a good job, it is one of many factors that recruiters take into account. It might help it might hurt. That was another part of my point. I hope this attempt at an explanation was better than the last.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
But doing "field engineering" for a top ten ENR company ie Bechtel, Kiewit, Washington Group, Fluor, Parsons etc. (all great companies) GPA is not the end all be all of getting a good of great job but as I stated in my long winded rant above a low GPA does not mean you are doomed to toil for some low rent engineering outfit in the "sticks" for eternity. I know some guys that were low GPA guys that worked on some really cool projects all over the world.
On the matter of school size i have one engineering degree from a pac-10 school and the other engineering degree is from a small NAIA school in the frontier conference that no one has heard of. The only advantage to the Pac-10 alma mater is talking a little smack in interviews with people from other Pac-10 schools about the last football or basketball season. Although i do think the small school was much tougher than the Pac-10 school.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
When I finished my final year at the University of Westerna Australia I took all my engineering lecture notes and used them to heat up water in our wood-fired hot water system. I then started out from scratch.
What I needed to know about pumps and piping, air conditioning systems and mining processes I did not learn at University. I think the Professors like to think that they are teaching us to think. But from what I see passes for intellectual wisdom I am even having my doubts about that.
Step out in confidence, and don't be afraid to ask questions, and make mistakes. But don't pretend to be what you are not.
All the best - Sgt John.Rz
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Johnp.Rz
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
My GPA was good but not outstanding. For recruitment for an engineering firm, I think that in general, those with higher GPA's will perform better. Even if they are just good at cramming and test taking, it shows that they have persistence and work well under pressure.
My GPA wasn't outstanding because I was lazy when it came to classes that were not in my area of interest. However, among my structural clases I had a 4.0.
The field engineer, or any kind of engineer, who is unable to get good grades in relevant classes is likely not as prepared as the engineer who got good grades. Obviously experience can make up for the grades, but we're talking from a recruiter's perspective who is looking at applicants just out of school.
If a student really understands the material, he/she should be able to make the grade. If they cannot, then there is obviously something wrong with the test. Thankfully, that never occured in my educational experience.
That's all irrelevant though, imo, if the recruiter asks good questions. You can weed out the poor applicants in a sentence or two.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Greg, a low GPA does not mean lazy, stupid or any other label you would like to put on it, some of us knew from the beginning the diploma is far more important then the GPA and enjoyed our college time instead of working ourselves to the bone.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
1. Honesty and being Forthright
2. Creativity
3. Positive Attitude
4. Ability to make analagies to previous work and shape/change them to suit present problems
If you have these traits, notice how two of them have nothing to do with engineering, you will do well in almost anything. Just try to be the best at what you do, the first time and everytime.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
"A disorganised, skatty rocket scientist"
...is usually disorganized and scattered all about the countryside. Very short career path (maybe that should be carreer?). I know, as I did that job, and had a few near misses. :)
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
It was one of the easier aspects of Aerospace/Aeronautics, although of course we didn't go into much detail with the actual mechanics or chemistry.
Scatty disorganized weapons engineers are equally if not more dangerous, came across a few of them.
Can't remember if anyone already said this but I'm tempted to say grades are more of an issue in the US than UK, but this is based on limited experiene.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
That was not my point. My point was : Why is it legitimate to assume that low educational achievement equates to good interpersonal skills?
Admittedly I asked it in a provocative fashion.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
To answer your question, it doesn't necessarily mean they will have good interpersonal skills, but on average, they tend to. My experience is the low GPA guys were out at the bars far more often, had manual labor type summer jobs instead of internships and were good at thinking on their feet, all of this helps in field positions. There are of course lots of low GPA engineers that are none of those as well.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
There is also a saying in Oz, some engineers have 10 years experience, some engineers have 10 x 1 years experience. If you get stuck in a job in which you are doing the same thing over and over again you are worth nothing more than a first year graduate. This happens quite a lot with people who are employed in big companies. I would suggest to any engineer to expand your experience, do something different, take a chance and change streams even if it means taking a pay cut.
In terms of GPA to your actual value as an engineer, I have yet to see a correlation. A high GPA only demonstrates that someone is good at taking exams. A good recommendation from a collegue or even better a boss/supervisor demonstrates that you are a problem solver in the real world. It is worth its weight in gold and often quite a few dollars as well.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Many university gold medalists are content with doing technical grunt work and becoming director of some institution etc. and not interested in becoming businessman.
Greatest example, Bill Gates! I have much more repsect for people of that kind.
I agree in general with what sms said. I have not read all posts.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
SHort speal I would give an employer:
I personally failed physics 1 and withdrew from Calc 1. But that wasn't going to stop me. I went on to get my Masters. I know what it takes to fail and what it takes to succeed. Hire me.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I had a great internship and got my first job without even interviewing before I graduated. Then I got laid off after less than a year out of college. That hurt! But I wasn't interested in staying at that particular company so it all worked out for the best. I recieved a very nice severance package and was able to take a month or so off before starting to look for work.
It took a while to find another job. I interviewed for almost 50% of the jobs I applied for. I think the GPA helped in getting those interviews. The problem I encountered in getting hired was being a short, round, gray haired female with 20+ years of work experience in a very different industry (IT) that paid very well. Most of the companies I interviewed with assumed that I expected a really high wage because of my previous experience though I kept reassuring them that that was not the case.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Through my experience in manufactuirng i gained confidence and experience that proved invaluable when i reapplied in the Aerospace field. fade2blue all i can tell you is that it's never too late to give up on your dreams, there are always other functions you can do to make yourself better in the market. The way i looked at it was that i didn't HAVE to get paid to work in Aerospace, so i built gliders as a hobby. The same can be said about any field, if you're an ME there are tons of hobbies you can pick up to maintain your skill, or undersand your concepts even further. Believe me, when you show up at an interview and you show them what you've done after college in terms of building on your education, this can be as valuable as a 3.5 GPA beucase it shows them you not only understand the concepts but you can apply them to solve REAL WORLD problems!
In short grades are ALWAYS important, however not having great grades are NOT a show stopper. If your field of study IS your passion you will find a way to develop those skills whether you're amployed by a company in your field of study or are flipping burgers at McDonalds and you need to pick up hobbies.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
The only reason I got two interviews with larger companies was because I applied for a US patent, Interned for a company that made parts for GM, BMW, and Daimler-C.
the two bigger companies both asked my gpa and in the interviews really stressed my EXTREMLY low gpa...
the both offered me crappy jobs with low starting pay and bad benefits with little to no room to negotiate.
a smaller company that I interviewed for, had no interest in my gpa, loved my previous work experience which included working in Denmark, and El Salvador and the fact that I love fixing bikes... I got good pay and I was able to negotiate a little and even got them to pay for any further education in full! (Given I pass with a (C ) and work a extra year after finishing classes)
Yes I would say GPA greatly makes a difference to some people.... Guess which job I took?????????
Regards
JD
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I was a member of the relevant society that could have eventually led to me being chartered (equivalent to PE) when in the UK.
Now in the US I don't have EIT and it would be a pain to get as far as I can work out, working in exempt it didn't really come up as an issue though at places I actually interviewed. However, there were job adds that did ask about it.
That said if you can get it I'd say it can only improve your prospects, just don't know how much. From what I understand it will probably be easier while things are relatively fresh in your mind. Also for certain sectors of mechanical it may even be a requirement.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I am unsure of the UK but with my experience with education in Europe and The States, many engineering schools in Europe (my experience with DE, DK, CZ) are "Uni" or universities are strictly for engineering and a Collage is for technicians. And some countries spend students spend 5 to 6 yrs for Ing. title, with less gen. edu. classes. So Engineers should all have an education equivalent to the US; M.Sc or M.Eng. (Correct me if im wrong). – My wife has the Ing. title and everyone is the US asks what it means.
I check wiki to make sure im not an Idiot on this <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer's_degree>
The vastness of the US, shows a differences in education between geographic regions, states, Universities, Colleges, Community Collage, even with the oversight of the ABET. This may be the reason GPA is held in higher regard. So for example: even if you took a watered down course load at CC, a 4.0/4.0 GPA would (hopefully) show you learned something. – I was told I was a big nerd by my ERASMUS friends because I cared about my grades while studying in Europe.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
Three years of 9-5 maths/aplied/maths/engineering including many late nights of writing up lab reports. We had "humanities" in 2nd and 3rd year, which involved writing essays about Hilter's germany. It was bloody hard work. Almost as hard as working for a living.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
In my part of the UK College was what we called the last 2 years of 'high school'. There are also technical colleges which while the majority of their students will be last 2 years of high school they'll also have a lot of day release and night time classes for technicians etc.
Don't get me wrong, one or 2 big places asked about grades but that was about it.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I feel a propel in my career once I had my PE. I think this is something that will take me where I want to be.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now
I also feel that the Grade Point Average varies by school. For instance, suppose you went to school for a History degree. A 3.5 GPA at The University of North Carolina-Charlotte would probably pale in comparison to a 2.8 GPA received in the same major from Harvard.
RE: Your grades in university and where you are now