Grammar vs Logic
Grammar vs Logic
(OP)
I consider myself about average on grammar, though my spelling and typing skills lag a bit.
Over the weekend a friend was showing me some things he had made in his workshop. He proudly proclaimed that he had "learnt" himself how to do all of it on his own. I quickly interposed that he meant he had taught himself.
He retorted "No, to Teach is to impart knowledge, to learn is to gain knowledge. Since I didn't know how to do it I couldn't impart the knowledge, only gain it. So I learnt it to myself.
Well needless to say as it was a weekend we had had a few drinks so I couldn't rebuff him. What bothers me now is that even in the harsh light of sobriety I still see the logic in his point of view.
Someone help me please, before I start using logic instead of grammar when I speak!!
Over the weekend a friend was showing me some things he had made in his workshop. He proudly proclaimed that he had "learnt" himself how to do all of it on his own. I quickly interposed that he meant he had taught himself.
He retorted "No, to Teach is to impart knowledge, to learn is to gain knowledge. Since I didn't know how to do it I couldn't impart the knowledge, only gain it. So I learnt it to myself.
Well needless to say as it was a weekend we had had a few drinks so I couldn't rebuff him. What bothers me now is that even in the harsh light of sobriety I still see the logic in his point of view.
Someone help me please, before I start using logic instead of grammar when I speak!!





RE: Grammar vs Logic
RE: Grammar vs Logic
"I learnt it myself."
"I taught myself."
Both work for me.
RE: Grammar vs Logic
'So I learnt it to myself.'
Neither of the above is grammatically correct, even if you substitute "learned" for "learnt".
The verb learn does not take an indirect object. The person who learns is the subject. The thing that is learned is the direct object. There is no indirect object.
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RE: Grammar vs Logic
I have no problem with his choice of word, either is an acceptable past tense for learn, my problem is with the differential between grammatical versus logical usage. How can one express oneself logically in a language that is illogical. But I'll get over it, no one ever promised me a perfect world.
Perhaps just as bad, when I looked it up I found that his usage (#5 below) is a reconised though non-standard usage where learn is equated to teach.
God help us all, anything we say can mean something else to the audience.
learn (lûrn) verb
learned also learnt (lûrnt) learning, learns verb, transitive
1. To gain knowledge, comprehension, or mastery of through experience or study.
2. To fix in the mind or memory; memorize: learned the speech in a few hours.
3. a. To acquire experience of or an ability or a skill in: learn tolerance; learned how to whistle. b. To become aware: learned that it was best not to argue.
4. To become informed of; find out. See synonyms at discover.
5. Non-Standard. To cause to acquire knowledge; teach.
6. Obsolete. To give information to.
verb, intransitive
To gain knowledge, information, comprehension, or skill: learns quickly; learned about computers; learned of the job through friends.
[Middle English lernen, from Old English leornian.]
- learn´able adjective
- learn´er noun
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
RE: Grammar vs Logic
is that even a word?
RE: Grammar vs Logic
"is that even a word?"
Apparently so! I have heard it all my life but assumed it was just "local jargon', mispronunciation, or slang, until I posted the OM here.
I, however, found it was listed in each of the dictionaries I searched, including the Merriam-Webster and Cambridge Dictionaries. It was noted as being a "chiefly British past and past participle of LEARN".
I did not however grow up in Britain, and can attest to the fact that it is alive and thriving in other parts of the world.
RE: Grammar vs Logic
JulianHardy got it right.
"He learnt IT himself". Not "He learnt himself"
"He taught himself".
Costas
RE: Grammar vs Logic
What a turn of a phrase. That truly deserves recognition
RE: Grammar vs Logic
RE: Grammar vs Logic
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JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Grammar vs Logic
Pepe: Oh, Papa Homer, you are so learn`ed.
Homer: Heh heh heh. Learn'd, son. It's pronounced learn'd.
RE: Grammar vs Logic
RE: Grammar vs Logic
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
RE: Grammar vs Logic
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RE: Grammar vs Logic