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Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1
3

Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
You guys noticed how SW is now saying you may or may not be able to have more than one copy of SW per license. I guess the days of the old home copy are gone. It looks like they are trying to become more like Pro E everyday. LOL

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

You can install and activate the license twice...once for your work computer...and once for your home computer.

The process is fairly painless.........could be hassle for computers not on the net.....or for computers where the hardrive dies. Guess they figure these two things aren't that common.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
UG NX4.01.0 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2007 SP3.1 on WinXP SP2

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

I was told by my VAR about a month ago that the home license is going away.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-08-07)

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

We have some at our company that use SolidWorks from home in the evening and on weekends. If they do away with the home use license we will have longer project time lines which is not being more productive.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

If thats true...Solidworks is going to start driving customers away to competitors.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
UG NX4.01.0 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2007 SP3.1 on WinXP SP2

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

They aren't getting rid of one's ability to work from home.  That would be illegal, at least under California law.  They've been threatening to get rid of the home licence scheme.  In its place, they've already have the license check-out scheme, where you can check out a license and take it home with you.  I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe this might still be techincally illegal under Cali law, but if not, it is an annoying loophole they are exploiting.  I believe that the check-out function will ultimately hurt their customers if they wish to depend on that to avoid piracy.
 
Rant alert:  The problem they don't see yet is the fact that there is a need for gray market copies to float around to keep their software standard.  Many vendors need SW to work with their customer's files, but have no use for it themselves, so why would they pay thousands of dollar to buy it and thousands to maintain it when they are only using about 5% of its functions.  Essentially, SolidWorks tries to force mom and pops to own their own copies, it is us true SolidWorks customers who pay.  We basically are paying for our licenses, and our vendor's licenses.  And that really isn't fair at all.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Matt,

The reason why the mom-n-pops would (or should) pay for their license is that the cost of a legal license of SWX is miniscule when compared to the cost of a BSA audit.  I don't want to get into a debate over ethics and unfair competitive practices, but companies that use "gray market" licenses in order to receive customer data are:

A) breaking the law
B) not playing on a level playing field with their competition who does pay for licenses

I don't blame Solidworks one bit for trying to incorporate anti-piracy measures.  After all, they're a business, not a charity.

If Solidworks can eliminate piracy through these measures, it stands to reason that costs will go down for the rest of us, doesn't it?  I've got to believe that there is some reparation for lost revenue due to piracy baked into the cost of a license / subscription service.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
One of the reasons I bought SW for my company was because of their customer first philosophy. The understood that their market was the smaller companies thus the people buying the product actually did alot a work at home also. It seems they are ready to kick the buyers to the curb who put them where they are today! I can tell you if they keep going this way I will not renew my maintenance.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

We may be talking about two diffrent things here. The standalone license and the network license.

The network license currently has two ways to take it home, one is the check out check in and the other is the home use license.

The standalone only has the home use option availible which I would still call a home use license.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko ...

Quote (License Agreement):

If the Software is permanently installed on the hard disk or other storage device of a computer (other than a network server) and one person uses that computer more than 80% of the time it is in use, then that person may also use the Software on a portable or home computer while the original copy is not in use. You will keep accurate and up-to-date records of the numbers and locations of all copies of the Software, will supervise and control the use of the Software in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and will provide copies of such records to SolidWorks upon reasonable request.

I don't see anything different from previous releases. Can you post the part of the agreement you are referring to.

cheers
SW07-SP3.1
SW06-SP5.1

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
I have a standalone license. When I upgraded to the latest build SP3.1 online it popped up a new license agreement and then did over the internet a licensing request (which is new). It stated in a pop up about you may not be able to install more than one copy ect.. I really did not overly think about it because it caught me off guard on having to request some kind of internet access to verify. Then I started wondering if i screwed myself over by not insalling an update to my work computer first before my home copy in case they start locking you out ect..

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

dgowans,

No debate. :) Gray market creates business opportunity for the software publisher, so it doesn't stand to reason costs will go down without it.  We aren't talking black market piracy here.  I agree that hurts everyone.

If SolidWorks doesn't like gray market, then I would like to see them provide an alternative to fill the gap, so their customers aren't hurt.  I've put in multiple enhancement requests for SolidWorks to publish a lite version specifically geared for vendors who aren't modifying the models, but need access model geometry directly.  

As far as the original comment goes, CBL seems to suggest there is a misunderstanding.  I know my VAR told me a few years ago that SW was planning to get rid of home licensing, but it doesn't seem like they've made that move yet.  

To explain my comment about CA law, under a court ruling in the 90's, "Like A Book" understanding of licencing was enforced, regardless of what a s\w license might say.  However, my information may be outdated if the law has been changed or if the 1998 digital information act superceded the court decision.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Matt,

I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what it is you mean by "gray market" copies of the software.  Either these companies need direct access to the native SWX data or they don't.  If they just need geometry (presumably for manipulation in some other system), SWX can export any number of neutral files.  If these companies' customers refuse to supply anything other than native data then the companies who need "gray market" copies need to buy SWX as a cost of doing business.

I'm not saying the automotive industry is a shining example of what to do, but automotive suppliers by and large are required to work with native data.  This supply base typically either has licenses of the software or pays a service bureau to do whatever conversion they need.

Can you give me an example of an instance where a "gray market" copy of the software would create a business opportunity for Solidworks?

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

dgowans,

We are talking two different languages, taking this discussion outside of the scope of the original question.  Perhaps we can save this discussion for another day. :)

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

2
The home use license is still around... if you VAR told you otherwise, then he was wrong... the SNL home use license process has changed, but you still get a copy at home for SNL users. Those of you using Standalone seats get to activate 2 copies of the software. After that you will not be able to install it on another machine. You can transfer a license from one to the other, but you will not get more then 2.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP pc2
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Thanks for the clarification, Scott.  That makes sense.  Borrowing licenses from work would not be feasible for a home computer because of firewall issues, anyway, unless the company allowed VPN access from a home machine (which my company does not).

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
So Scott, does that mean if I have SW2006 & SW2007 on one computer and SW2006, SW2007 and SW2005(dont ask why LOL) on another I will not be able to upgrade or run them?

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Nothing has really changed except the way you register your software.  Instead of operating on good faith SW now has more control of how many times you install the software.  They are not changing the rules, just enforcing them.  I really dont see the big deal.

Rob Rodriguez CSWP
www.axiscadsolutions.com
www.robrodriguez.com
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/rob_rodriguez/
Eastern Region SWUGN Representative www.swugn.org  www.nvtswug.com
SW 2007 SP 2.0

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
Also what happens if you get a new computer and need to reinstall the software , but happen to not be on maintenance anymore? I could see where they use the new authentication process to make life a pain for those who do not continue to pay the man. Will you not be able to install till you go on maintenance again? I never like it when people change licensing processes mid way during an agreement (we are on maintenance). They should have waited till the 2008 version and let us decide to renew or not.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

rocko, you should make sure to save a copy of the upgrade installer from 0.0 to the latest. You would want to download this before you left maintenance.

My question would be, What about multiple partitions on the same machine?

I have an install at work. At home I have an install on the same machine on a win32 and a x64. There would be no way to use both at the same time, but wouldn't this be 3 installs. I also like to be able to run tests with my single user licence on other machines around the office when I get those bugs that seem like the are due to my OS. Won't be able to do that anymore either.

The bad folks always ruin everything for the good guys.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rfus,

You can have multiple installs in the same machine.  Counts as only one activation.  Should work even with a dual-boot system.  (Pls try it and let us know for sure.)

FYI, both SW2006 & 2007 are activation-aware.  You can have both installed on the same machine and it still counts as one activation.

If you also need to run older releases, you'll have to contact your VAR to get special reg codes for SW2005 and earlier.  

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

It works fine on a multiple boot system provided the boots are all on one drive.

Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
SW06
SW07
IBM T42p, 2g proc., 1g RAM,ATI Mobility Fire GL T2
HP XW4100, 3g proc., 3g RAM, Nvidia Quadro 980 XGL
HP XW4300, 3.4g proc, 2.5g RAM, ATI Fire GL 3100

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko,

If you need to replace the computer you have to transfer it. If the HDD crashes and you can't get to the HDD they have a way of de-registering the software there, but its only a last resort. If you go off maintainence then you should still be able to activate your software in the future still, but you will only be allowed for that version.

rfus,

You are allowed only 2 so if you need it on 3 machines you will have to transfer one to the other when that happens. That's your only choice, unless you purchase another seat of SW. But if you are on a dual boot and like it was pointed out by sldwkmin it does work fine. So that's good to know.

It is very important to understand if you move your system to another machine that you must first Transfer the license back to SW.

I have SW07 SP3 installed and registered, but I also have my SW06 and SW05 installed on the same computer. I am using the serial number so there are no problems with my SW here. Just and FYI if you were curious about the older seats of SW.

Best Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP pc2
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

I understand Solidworks reason for doing this.....but could you guys imagine if "every" software program out there did this? Siwtching to a new PC would be a nightmare trying to unactivate and reactivate all your software.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
UG NX4.01.0 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2007 SP3.1 on WinXP SP2

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

This seems like an extremely bad idea. Upgrading hardware between versions will not be an option, not in my company atleast. I dont see the logic here. Piracy might be a seroius loss factor for them, I dont know. The question are if they really know this themselves... I have a strong feeling that no serious company would go with illegal software, and the non serious ones would newer fork out the mony in any case, just go to the next free or low cost option.

Maybe they use the same math as the music industry, proclaming that every illegal copy=lost revenue.

Could be interesting to see what kind of arguments lies behind this practise.

I think they will be better off by looking throug the fingers with the illegal copies. And actually , the more the merrier, as this will give them a very large user base ready to get a legal copy as soon as they can afford it.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Mindnumb,

Only on hearsay, there's tons of (too much) piracy going on overseas in places like Russia and China.  These changes are an effort to reduce that piracy.  I believe that SolidWorks is trying to do their best to avoid impacting its loyal customer base.  

Personally, I somewhat agree with your sentiment, but I do not agree with acceptance of black market piracy.  I think Solidworks can make some changes to their methods to reduce piracy and still support its base better than they doing so now.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Problem is...this won't stop software piracy in Russia and China.....there are cracked versions of 2007 o'plenty on the net. We'll see how long it takes for a cracked version of 2008 to show up.

At most...this stops the casual coping of software at smaller companies and employees (ex-employees) who take a copy home for personal use. So I can see them maybe gaining some $$$ from the smaller companies going more legit (or they stop using it). People at home that want to use it will either get a cracked copy off the net...or they will no longer use it period.

The last result of all this is they hassle their existing and new customers a litle.....question is....is it enough for them to lose sales, lost new licenses for existing customers, or lost subscription.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
UG NX4.01.0 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2007 SP3.1 on WinXP SP2

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
Since I started the thread I thought I would imform everyone that the stupid new licensing even popped up for authentication when I started E-Drawings on one of my other computers that has not even had SP3.1 installed. How long till be all get a piece of @$%# dongle to plug in the back of our computer!
 Perhaps SW is trying to tell us it has outgrown the small business group and wants to move into the corporate world of Autodesk and Pro-E. You know whats funny is that Pro-E is getting easier on licensing and SW is getting harder, LOL. Wow how is that for irony!

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Dongle?...well almost every other country had dongles until now.  This new process eliminated the need for dongles which in the past SW graciously let the U.S. get by without. (On stand alone seats)  I've seen a lot of comments about other software being free or cheaper.  Being very close to the industry and seeing many softwares I question which CAD packages are doing something that's any simpler than a 30 second application form to register your software?

Seems all CAM packages and such are still using a dongle.

To take a step back and look at the big picture this benefits the mom and pop shops that have made the choice to be honest and purchase the software and install their legal number of seats.  If the've been competing with the dishonest guy down the street that wasn't following the license agreement this appears to have leveled the playing field.  So your argument may be very strong depending which side of the fence you're standing on.

Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
SW06
SW07
IBM T42p, 2g proc., 1g RAM,ATI Mobility Fire GL T2
HP XW4100, 3g proc., 3g RAM, Nvidia Quadro 980 XGL
HP XW4300, 3.4g proc, 2.5g RAM, ATI Fire GL 3100

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
What about someone who bought SW and has a desktop he uses  at work, then at home he has a desktop with SW on it. Then for those times he is visiting a client or being a road warrior , his laptop. This is my own personal case so needless to say i am a little frustrated by the change. Also is this new licensing change take place if i install the latest SP for my 2006 version ?

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko, At the risk of appearing to point a finger, but not my intention.  You did receive a license agreement that you agreed to that clearly states that what you are doing is illegal.  You can easily solve your situation and be completely legal if you so choose.  The cost for you to upgrade to a network seat is minimal.  You can then borrow a license for your laptop when needed.  You can also easily set up a VPN for your license server in your office and your home situation is solved.

Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
SW06
SW07
IBM T42p, 2g proc., 1g RAM,ATI Mobility Fire GL T2
HP XW4100, 3g proc., 3g RAM, Nvidia Quadro 980 XGL
HP XW4300, 3.4g proc, 2.5g RAM, ATI Fire GL 3100

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

I dont see why they go about it this way.

I guess some of the users here has a little experience with PC-Games. I am thinking of Valve softwares Steam. Any one who has used it knows what I mean, an update system, licence handeling and purchase channel all in one. Very elegant solution, and works like a charm. In theory, it has its loopholes, as I can share my account info with someone else, who could use my license while im asleep, but... then again, in the case of someone going through this hassle, the license would not be used more than 24 hours a day....

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
Dear Sldwkmin,
   Its not illegal in that there is only one person who even uses the software, thats me. Which means there are not three of me so then the software can only be used at one time. Also when I originally bought my software my VAR said it was ok , that was a condition of purchasing the software. Also it is illegal by our State Law for SW to change licensing agreements during a contract term (my existing maintenance that is still in affect and paid for).

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
In the end I think SW will find that the user base will have a big issue with this. I am inclined to no longer be on maintenance if they keep making big changes without even a letter to let us know there intentions. It seems they could care less what we think, thus they are becoming like the old Autodesk & Pro-E crowd and that is not what fueled SW growth. I have also heard a rumor that they are raising maintenance prices for 2008. Hell they are even losing functionality such as MoldXpress yet they are looking to raise prices. I am concerned of the trend I am seeing and thus I will make decisions based upon this. In the end maintenance really never did much for me but to allow some sense of feature transfer capability with some clients, but in the end its not worth the cost of maintenance in that we create all the designs anyway and they can live with a dumb solid model if I let them.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Quote:

when I originally bought my software my VAR said it was ok
The SW license agreement has not changed ... your VAR was either wrong or lying.

cheers
SW07-SP3.1
SW06-SP5.1

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko,
SolidWorks did inform us of the change with sp3. It was stated in a tech aleart and is still stated in the download section of the customer portal.

Scott,
Thank you for clearing up that there is not a change to the home use standalone license.

Microsoft started web based activation with windows xp when it came out and you will see more of this type of activation from more companys but that is just my oppinion.

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko,

If you have 3 computers, then you can install SW on all 3 stations. But only 2 of them are are going to be active at one time. The very quick and easy fix for this is to simple transfer your license from one system to another. You simple click "Transfer License" and it sends it back to SW. You fire SW up on the other station and it goes on the web and registers that computer. That is the legal way to do it. Your VAR is wrong and was incorrect in telling you that. You only get a total of 2 license one at work and one at home. The theory is you can be in both places at the same time. Not that you can't use 2 at the same time. Customers have been for years taking a single serial number and placing it multiple seats... now these guys are paying the price. Like anything else in this world... the bad apples are what causes the rest of us to pay... but I don't see the Activation thing as a bad thing at all. It's a good thing, I know you don't agree with me, but you have not been setting up your computer legally and for that your are one of the ones that this product activation was design for. I am not being rude or pointing fingers, only pointing out the what has caused this to happen.

Product activation has been discuss a number of times. One place to go is to the SW forum. There you can probably get more information then you will here, because a lot of the SW guys are in on those conversations. I am glad they have made some changes to protect themselves, but I know the hackers will find away around this... they always do, but it makes it harder for them to find one.

Sorry you feel that being off Subscription is the right thing to do. But like all new things that SW releases we all get a custom to these changes and keep moving forward.

Best Regards Rocko!

Scott Baugh, CSWP pc2
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko,

From the AutoCAD 1980's example, I'm inclined to agree with you.  The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 comes from and has perpetuated an ideology about licensing and copyright that just doesn't match the real world.  All those companies that benefited from piracy all now claim it is costing them billions.  It's all very hypocritical.  However, I do think SolidWorks is trying to do their best, though I feel there are better directions they can go with this.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

(OP)
FCSUPER,
What is even more hypocritical is that you pay for good software (that is expected and should work) but it comes with bugs and problems that cost you money and there is no way to sue or be reimbursed because the software guys (microsoft & others) have lobbied the hell out of congress to give them a pass.
 Dont even try to give me the bs example of how complicated the code is. Airplanes , Helicopters are as much or more complicated and the mfgs can be sued if they do not work.
 I hope the time is coming that a stupid programming error on SW side costs someone money , they will one day be able to sue. Perhaps then we will get better software control on the quality of the program then doing the age old throw it out there and patch and patch and patch ect...

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Quote:

You guys noticed how SW is now saying you may or may not be able to have more than one copy of SW per license. I guess the days of the old home copy are gone. It looks like they are trying to become more like Pro E everyday. LOL

Wrong Rocko......Pro/E uses FlexLM as it's license manager and I can check out my license anytime I want to work at home.

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
XP Pro SP2.0 P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right."  -- George Best

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Rocko,
You can't blame the software companies. They also do their best.
I have installed SOlidWorks and other software on a lot of pc's. Some work well some don't, depends on the pc settings. I actually went through approx 20 pc's, set them exactly the same, worked out the bugs, loaded SolidWorks. They had no problems. All users were happy.
If a user starts having problems, it is because he/she had changed something.
There are a lot of things that can go wrong with so many OS's and software/hardware variables. Then throw in user variables. Everyone is trained different and think different.
SolidWorks does their best to keep up with them.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 3.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-19-07)

RE: Noticed New Licensing Mumbo Jumbo Change on Rev3.1

Here is the answer from SW on my question about dual boot systems:

Question: A partitioned hard drive utilizing a multi boot configuration has SolidWorks installed on each partition using the same activation serial number.  Will this count as two activations or one activation when running SolidWorks in each operating system?

Answer: As long as the boot drive is the same for each operating system in a multi-boot configuration, there will be a prompt to activate both versions of SolidWorks but it will only count as one activation.

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