Are drawings needed anymore?
Are drawings needed anymore?
(OP)
In the coming and existing CAD day and age of 3d models as the carrier of information - Do we need drawings anymore?
Are drawings a needed legal document?
Are drawings a needed legal document?





RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
thread1103-182896 thread1103-182500
For the forseable future there will be areas of industry that will still need drawings, or at least a combination of model and drawing.
There are many things that need to be considered and addressed before going fully 3D, just invoking ASME Y14.41 by itself doesn't seem enough.
That said some areas are already well advanced with implementation of Model Based Definition (MBD), such as aerospace & automotive.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
As handy as some of the new computers are, a plain old paper drawing rolled out on the workbench at the jobsite will still be the norm in the field.
That is not to say that the design and approval process may actually take place without a paper drawing, but even that is still a stretch. I still find it a lot easier to examine a paper drawing laid out on my desk, perhaps swapping back and forth between it and several others, while checking references and tags.
old field guy
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
David
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Legacy used to mean something of value handed down from the past. It now means worthless crap nobody supports:)
Never have that problem with paper.
Regards,
Mike
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
That said, most of the MBD files that I have seen do carry along a drawing sheet to show the revision level and to note the interpretation method used, along with other basic information. The product is otherwise fully defined in the model file.
The only way for a large enterprise manufacturing such complex assemblies to stay ahead in the market is to embrace this technology and run with it. Meanwhile, sell your stock in electric eraser and drawing board manufacturers!
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Most of the companies I am familiar with are much more cautious than this, sometimes waiting until two or three new versions have come out before updating their software. When they do update, it is considered a cost of doing business to run ALL part files, legacy and current, through a conversion program so that all data is current and usable.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
All that aside, I can see MBD being the standard and for mechanical in the next 5-10 years. Our CAD systems will not be incapable forever, in fact they are getting closer by the year. Most machine shops can program directly from a 3d model already and only use the drawing to determine tolerances, thread callouts and check parts when a cmm is unavailable or impractical. Electronic markup software is currently available (Autodesk provides Design Review for free on their website).
As long as you can completely define the model without a drawing and as long as you can keep track (revision control/legacy storage)of the model files, there is no reason that you need a drawing anymore.
David
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
If I want to get a few pieces of info off a drawing, I'll pull it up on my screen and view it there.
If a piece of equipment breaks and my task for the next hour, day, or week is to understand and troubleshoot that equipment, then I will print out the drawing so I can make notes on it and carry it around with me to the field and to meetings.
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RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Again thank you for all of your information.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
I think drawings that illustrate: "Run conduit from point A to point B", will always be needed. In the construction world, I don't 2D drawings dissappearing anytime soon.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
I cant imagine all the builders walking around a construction site with their laptop! Also many of the builders that I have worked would not understand 3D drawings.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
In automotive some body panel parts are now so complex only modelled parts work and 2D drawings are already a thing of the past. I am amazed that some companies that produce parts like castings and mouldings still use 2D, I would imagine they will soon fall by the wayside, I simply cannot see how they can remain competitive.
For things like building and electrical it is hard to see 2D drawings going away
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
If you have the oppportunity, the next time you go to the field, try NOT bringing a paper copy of a drawing and see if that works. Simple test, yes?
Answer to Qestion 2: Yes, drawings are legal documents. That is why there is an engineer's stamp on it. In all the jurisdictions that I have worked in, submittals to government agencies is always in paper form, stamped and signed.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Guess you didn't know about that either?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
sure drawings are the legal document today; there's nothing to stop that changing in the future. sure, they're easier to look at today (compared with a laptop screen), but that can easily change.
i deal more with reports, stress analysis. these are transitioning over to electronic masters, with embedded spreadsheets and digital signatures and date stamps.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
You are correct that many ‘view & markup’ packages aren’t really adequate yet for design checking. Also maybe it’s because I’m stuck in 2D but I often find it easier to review a design based on drawings than spinning a model around on my monitor and having to interrogate it to find dimensions.
The places that seem to make most use of MBD are ones that seem to have what might be called ‘integrated’ supply chains. In other words the OEM picks the CAD system and forces everyone in their supply change to use it. This is fine for the big boys, not so good for small & medium firms. Not only do you need compatible CAD systems (they don’t have to be the same but need to be able to share some kind of annotated format like .jt) but you need the configuration control discipline etc to go with it etc.
In my opinion drawings, or for complex ‘freeform’ type parts a combined drawing & model are going to be the way to go for many areas of industry for a long time yet, but I’ve been wrong before
elecricpete, how young are you? I'm only 29 but am aware of electric erasers (my checker still has one he uses on his redlines), eraser shields (I have a mangled one somewhere) 'bendy rulers' (not sure the real name but they were the ones used to draw smooth lines when effectively 'joining the dots') plastic leds, scalpel (both for scratching ink off certain types of prints & for cutting sections out of linen drawings that had been amended too many times), linen drawing media, full E size prints, tracers...
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
In the year 2057, maybe ACAD version 345 will be in use, and maybe it is backwardly compatible with ACAD v 12, but maybe not. ( maybe Rocky 345 will be showing in theatres as well).
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
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davefitz, you hit the point! In the company I worked for last 15 years we changed from AutoCAD v.9 to 2002. We have projects stored on 5,25 inch diskettes, on 120 MB (Huge size!!!) strimmer cassetes, on CD's. How can one open now something stored somewhere on first two media types?
5,25 floppy drives are not more produced, strimmer cassette drive is saved somewhere in the storage, but it needs DOS drivers (now floppy disk with these drivers is missing) - so these archives can be considered lost. And this is situation inside the company!
Now I must evaluate and update a project where original design is made 10 years ago y another company using "Microstation" software. I have original files, but only in "Microstation" format. Only hardcopies help me to find what is installed in the control panels. And I have two options - either to find somebody who still uses Microstation and to ask him to convert files in .dxf, either totally redraw paper copies!
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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Isn't that why they came up with Iges format so that you submit copies of to the customer, then it's their problem to keep it on current media...
Really useful when your customer isn't the government I know.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Not any of the major players. I've been working with the same CAD system for 20 years so far, and they keep improving. Plus I can still modify a 20 year old file if I need to. Some CAD systems may be bought out and integrated with other products, but the base functionality will most often remain. It does take an investment to ensure that your files do not become obsolete, but it can and is done. If you decide to not make that investment, then yes, your data may become worthless.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Hg
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RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Heckler
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RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Do we need engineers anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
nope. just healthcare workers and lawyers. 99% of the future economy right there.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Surely it's more "Do we need Draughtsmen (Draughtspersonages?)" any more.
Real engineers don't do drawings right
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
This means we can sit around a tube and talk about the problems without asking the draughtie to interpret what is in front of us.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
For civil work, paper is here to stay.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
It's definitely bad practice to scale from the drawing, at least in mechanical work, but NEVER say never
I really don't see drawings going away completely anytime soon but I'll be interested to be proved wrong.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Too many requirements? But would somebody imagine just 20 years ago how powerfull will be a modern battery operated(!!!) laptop? Or 10 years ago that more than two billion people will have mobile phones?
We will see after another 20 years, if God allows us!
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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Regards,
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Are drawings needed anymore?
We could get rid of a the fancy terminology & standard conventions etc on drawings but then we'd have to have several sheets of notes explaining what we meant.
I think I'll stick with the drawing conventions etc outlined in the various national/international standards.