submit for approval
submit for approval
(OP)
Also be careful about saying things like "submit for ________ approval," and "will be approved by ______," since the logic of the words does not allow disapproval.
(Taken from the 'guide to spec writing')
Do you agree with this?
Many, many publications including AISC documents use 'submit for approval'
doesn't 'approval' mean subject to a prospective buyer's acceptance OR refusal?
right or wrong?
(Taken from the 'guide to spec writing')
Do you agree with this?
Many, many publications including AISC documents use 'submit for approval'
doesn't 'approval' mean subject to a prospective buyer's acceptance OR refusal?
right or wrong?





RE: submit for approval
I.e., you submit something for approval, and it's implied that you keep modifying it until it meets the requirements and gets approved.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: submit for approval
Contractor submits some package of crap, and the next submittal is an invoice for payment for the "submittal".
Always tie your milestone payments to your approval. "I'll pay you when I say it's good."
RE: submit for approval
"Submit for the purpose of eventually getting an approval"
??
RE: submit for approval
RE: submit for approval
What's really bad is when the spec says something like "The Engineer shall approve the submittal prior to any work being performed"--which, on close reading, puts the Engineer in violation of the contract if they don't approve the submittal, no matter how bad the submittal is!
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: submit for approval
We submit most of our technical documents (not drawings) by emailing them config control and either leaving it to them to get everyones approval or we CC all the required approvals.
I usually put in the email something like "I'm subbmitting this for approval" but as you say this implies disapproval isn't an option.
If you say submit for review you're not explicitly asking for approval, I can imagine it sitting in the in tray for weeks!
Perhaps it should really be something like "submit to the approval process" and "if deemed adequate will be approved by"
I'm not sure, I'll be interested to see where this goes.
RE: submit for approval
RE: submit for approval
Too bad we can't say "submit in the hope of approval" in the spec...
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: submit for approval
If you submit the guide in question for my approval, I will either disapprove it, or approve as edited with the offending statement struck out. Is this a published work?
RE: submit for approval
This never stops the contractor from whining "but you approved..."
RE: submit for approval
RE: submit for approval
"No Exceptions Noted" seems better, as it allows for the reviewer to miss something.
RE: submit for approval
RE: submit for approval
RE: submit for approval
==============================
Guide to Specification Writing
For U.S. Government Engineers
by John Oriel, NAVAIR TSD
http://www
==============================
Follow the link, download the word doc. and search for Approval.
==============================
I prefer 'No Exception Taken' over Approval - this is what use:
a. Status 1: No exception taken. Contractor may proceed with fabrication or construction in accordance with specification.
b. Status 2: Contractor may proceed in accordance with specification based on making revisions as noted and resubmit.
c. Status 3: Revise as noted and resubmit. Hold fabrication.
d. Status 4: For information only; review not required.
BUT again - AISC legal department seems fine with the phrase "Submit for Approval"
RE: submit for approval
Deficient:
• The document is of such poor quality that the design intent cannot be determined, or is ambiguous.
• Document fails to meet minimum acceptable standards for clarity, drafting standards, grammar or spelling.
Non-Compliant/Not Acceptable:
• The document identifies design intent that is non-compliant to the Technical Specification Requirements.
• Based on past experience, or engineering review, the presented design poses a substantial risk of unsatisfactory performance.
• Content is contradictory to other information on the same topic presented in another document.
No Non-Compliant items identified:
• Review of the document did not identify any non-compliant items.
RE: submit for approval
or, if you're writing the contract, state it carefully.
Items (document, drawing, a widget, a CDRL, whatever) may be "submitted" for a variety of reasons; approval being just one.
Not all documents require approval, believe it or not, it's all a matter of where someone want's to spend their money.
RE: submit for approval
DaveAtkins
RE: submit for approval
However, if you want to make something clearer there is nothing that stops you making it so. You can always include plain languages such as “ do not proceed with procurement or fabrication of the product until a satisfactory review, of the submittal, by the Owner and the Architect/Engineer is obtained. No payments will be made for incomplete or unsatisfactory submittals,” etc.
Some Other Points:
There is no need to reinvent the wheel. There are very good master (guideline) specs available from AIA (Published by Arcom) and CSI, etc. They include adequate language for submittals etc. You need to spend some money and remain up to date.
Also in today’s world, legal aspect is very critical so it is important that your insurance carrier and attorneys review your contractual requirements and payment terms.
Thirdly, try to keep the technical requirements and non-technical such as payment separate, that is in separate sections of specs and contracts. Payment terms should be handled in general conditions of the contract and not in technical specification sections.
RE: submit for approval
The regulatory world doesn't like NTO's when an operator attempts to use them as substantiation for repairs/mods.
Randall Shelaga C.E.T.