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Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

(OP)
There's a beer bet riding on this....

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

That was Dr. Ishihara.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

I do not know who came up with this, but I believe it is NEMA convention and I agree with this convention.

I have also seen it in India, which otherwise is under IEC influence.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

This was another of the great struggles between Edison and Tesla, with Edison prevailing after he held Tesla's dog hostage and threatened to electrocute her using a Tesla ac generator.  

The victory proved somewhat shallow when it was later revealed that Edison was color-blind.

Make mine a Guinness.    

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Edison was such  a jerk...

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Am I agreeing with Edison??? Oh..no...I may change my mind..lol.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Edison was a jerk and Tesla was a nut case. No wonder we're so confused.

I like red=unsafe, green=safe. I've had clients insist on red=stop, green=go, but I usually try to dissuade the philosophy. Consistency is good.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

yes, the red=unsafe, green=safe (usually) approach also extends to valves that are usually labeled similarly (green = closed, red = open).

And of course open for a valve is like closed for a breaker, and open for a breaker is like closed for a valve. So naturally the color for an open valve is opposite the color for an open breaker.  The linguistically similar positions must have color-coded oposite positions because the functionally similar positions have the same color and their linguistically similar positions have opposite colors.  The color relationship is opposite the linguistic relationship because the linguistic relationship is oppostie to the functional relationship.  But at least their color relationship is in accordance with their functional relationship.

time for that beer now...

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

In our plant, red is close and green is open for breakers. Its  American standard i think coz the panel is made  in US. But to my surprise in the SCADA green is close and red is open for breakers and even motors. ie when the motor is running its color is green when off its red. When i trace where the software comes from its from Australia, hehe. But of course the programmer can want any color or might reverse that color coding if wanted. What i just want to express is I think the color preferences differs from one standard to another. In our case we have mixed standards, lolz. But its just easy to rectify it, just exchange the indicating buld covers to coincide with the SCADA, lolz!!


Best regards!

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

I think that goes back to the days of Adam and Eve. As long as the apple (yes, I know, it probably was a durian, but that does not fit), as I said, as long as the apple was green, it was OK to eat. It was only when it got red that they were told not to eat it. A little late, perhaps, but still. So, God (not Edison, not Tesla, not even Steinmetz) decided that.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

I believe it was actually the U.S. Navy. In all Naval configurations you will always see Red=running (unsafe) and Green=stopped (safe) and since power plants adapt most Navy S.O.P.'s you find it common in most power plants.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Not sure who came up with it but the colors are red - closed, green - open per IEEE C37.13

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Starter Logic:

Green = OK to enter enclosure
Red = Not OK to enter

Steetlight Logic:

Green = OK to enter intersection
Red = Not OK to enter

Just a shot in the dark...

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

I've had consulting engineers INSIST that all lights should be green under normal conditions.  So on normally open breakers, green=open, and on normally closed breakers green=closed!  Talk about confusing!

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Gen:
Those consultants never worked on or near a live gear.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

That's just plain dangerous!

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

The indicating lighting light standard has been around USA since the before the forties, I have a copy of the old Electrical Machine Standards that  shows it that way. Its a bad standard because it causes a lot of confusion. Since it conflicts with traffic signal logic- red is stop and green is go.

The only standard I have seen that has it right is mil standards. Yes,it is dangerous, because a lot of people will not comply with the standard it is all mixed up. Maybe  the internation standards can correct this problem.

 I don't know why some people are resistant to changing this, my guess it is people that do not like changes period.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

adviana:

Green is a GO in traffic light, because it is safe.

The necessary condition to be safe and to GO in electrical equipment is when the breaker/switch is Open. Where is the confusion?

There is a differnec between Normal condition and safe conditon. Normal conditon may be the breaker is Closed and energized but it is not safe to GO.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

I like the traffic light analogy too:  you cross the intersection when it is clear, and a breaker indicator is green when it is has cleared.

As for the origination, don't know, but it's been almost always been around power plants as far as I can tell.  Looking at my antique book library (Audel's New Electric Library, 1st Print 1931), volume VI has a chapter about substations, and an example used was a General Electric Supervisory Controller for dispatch stations (the birth of SCADA?) The front of this supervisory controller was full of indicator lights for each station switch position: red=closed, green=open, white=Automatic (tripping) operation, and amber for synchronzing local & remote circuit-selection relays that coordinated alignment for opening/closing desired circuit.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

In submarines, a "green board" means all the valves to outside are CLOSED.  

RC

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Red = HOT = do not touch

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Go mean to move. Red means to stop. It has nothing to do with safe. I got hit going thru a green light.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

you guys have just got use to doing per code. But I still say it still not right.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Advidana,

That has to be the most rediculous thing I have every heard.

You got hit going through a green light... poor you ... bad luck... that is all... it still does not diminish the intent of the lights...as with any logic system the system is only as good as the users...

Regards,
TULUM

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

Just to muddy the waters, there is really no universal standard for this, not even a US standard, at least in practice.  It's just a convention.

In the utility industry in the US, the use of red for energized and green for de-energized is nearly universal in transmission and distribution systems.  In power plants, this usage is continued by using red for running motor and red for open valve.

But in other industries, it's often exactly the opposite.  Many water and wastewater plants use green for ON and red for OFF.  I've even some it done both ways in the same plant on different panels.  Drives me nuts.  

The world would be a much better place if everyone used RED for ENERGIZED, just as the Creator intended. looking around

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

(OP)
The beer is still in the middle of the table and getting warm.

Really, no one here has a definitive answer?

The two contenders in this thread, IMHO, are:

A COMBINATION OF:  Tommy75 with the Navy SOP explanation and

DPC with the "it's only a convention"


===OR===

The fable of "How Corporate Policy is Made"

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result; all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.

Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they are not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey every again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

Because as far as they know that’s the way it’s always been done around here.

RE: Who determined to use green for open and red for closed in breakers ?

This obviously been discussed before here.

thread248-39408

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