MMBL question
MMBL question
(OP)
Easy one guys. What does mmbl mean in relation to flow / consumption of barrels of oil. Is this million million barrels?
If so, what is the value in scientific notation as I think there is a diffence between US and European terminology for what a billion is. ??
Regards,
Kevin
If so, what is the value in scientific notation as I think there is a diffence between US and European terminology for what a billion is. ??
Regards,
Kevin





RE: MMBL question
I don't know the origin of the "M" designation. It looks like it was derived from from Roman numerals, but then that would be an M for 100. Anybody know?
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
RE: MMBL question
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
David
RE: MMBL question
I have always taken the prefix "M" as being one thousand and "MM" as being one million, so I think the OP's question has been answered. The most common usage I have seen of this terminology is in energy - e.g MMBTU of gas.
Katmar Software
Engineering & Risk Analysis Software
http://katmarsoftware.com
RE: MMBL question
The designation 'mmbbl' relates to Offshore Engineering magazine where it states new discoveries of oil reserves found globally in 2006. These are:
Shallow: 77 Fields @ 774 mmbbl Liquid Reverves & 527,258 bcf Gas Reserve.
Deep: 16 Fields @ 969 mmbbl Liquid Reverves & 9,600 bcf Gas Reserve.
Ultra Deep: 12 Fields @ 2,400 mmbbl Liquid Reverves & 3,100 bcf Gas Reserve.
Still not entirely clear how much this is but I presume it's a lot!
RE: MMBL question
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
I must say that the designation preceeds the existance of Offshore Engineering Magazine by at least 3,000 years.
I'm not guessing, "M" as a unit prefix for "1,000" in Oil & Gas comes from the Roman Numeral. My first boss had an Oil Field Geology text book from the 1890's. Whenever someone would bring this up he would pull it out and there was a direct reference to MCF, MMCF, MMMCF (back then they didn't seem to use the BCF label), and MBBL and that the prefix was the Roman Numeral for 1,000. I don't know of an older Oil & Gas reference than that one.
David
RE: MMBL question
So if M means 1000, this must mean that MM is 1,000,000 or 1000 x 1000? Is this the case?
So in the case of the above 774 MMBBL must mean 774,000,000 Barrels?
Also, I assume BCF means billion cubic feet?
Now, is a US billion the same as a European one? i.e. 1,000,000,000?
Someone told me otherwise (1,000,000,000,000)
RE: MMBL question
This seems to confirm the above, h
The use of MM as a BOPD prefix for oil [red]flow[/color] is generally not used, since anything over 1 to perhaps 1.5 MMBOPD would be difficult to achieve in anything but the largest regional trunk lines. I can't think of a single instance where I have seen it used for oil, even for the very few lines in the world that can or eventually could reach such a capacity.
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
MMbbl (million barrels) and bcf (billion cubic feet) are North American units for oil and gas, respectively. European units of measurement are based on the SI system. They usually refer to volume in terms of cubic meter (sometimes spelled as metre).
Here's an article explaining the history of the "barrel"
http://www.slate.com/id/2115219/
Yes
Yes
Yes
As far as I know, the "common" billion (1,000,000,000) is the same anywhere. If you google for billion, you will find out that there is a "short scale" billion (1,000,000,000) and a "long scale" billion (1,000,000,000,000). The former is the modern billion; and the latter is an old term and is rarely used (modern English language now calls this trillion)
RE: MMBL question
Let's not forget that the SI prefix symbol M means mega = 106, as in MHz or MPa; 109 = giga → G, and 1012 = tera → T.
Prefixes shouldn't be combined into compound prefixes, thus MM is not accepted; for instance, Tg should be used, while MMg should not.
SI prefixes are not to be used with oC.
In the U.S.A. 109 = billion, in other countries milliard.
In the U.S.A., 1012 = trillion, in other countries, billion.
When used as a physical or chemical symbol, M should better be slanted and bold M.
RE: MMBL question
Surely any of the countries that have adopted the SI system would condsider a billion to be 1 x 10^9 ? A trillion 1 x 10^12 ?
Big Inch, the designation used for MMBBL is for approximate global reserves and understood probably not used in the industry that much.
RE: MMBL question
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
Roman numerals instead of SI causes some confusion, but not as much as you would think. Many people wish the SI prefixes had been used by the old-time US Oil guys, but it wasn't and we seem to be stuck with Roman Numerals for volumes. MCF, MMCF, MMBTU are terms that are reasonably unambiguous when discussing hydrocarbon production the world over. The made-up unit of "therm" (I guess all units are made up, but this one feels phony to me) is becoming fairly common for gas consumption in contracts, but it isn't in common usage 25 years after it was proposed.
To say "MM is not accepted" flies in the face of its worldwide usage to mean "a thousand thousand". You could say "MM is poor grammar" and you'd be right, just like you'd be right to say that "ain't" is poor grammar--that doesn't mean that the use of either vulgar term is not perfectly well understood.
I don't know how the term "billion" got so screwed up. The oldest references I can find are pretty old saying it is 1,000 million. The term "milliard" just seems odd to me and I've never heard it used in conversation in other countries, and it seems largely unknown in the US.
On the other hand, when I started in this industry the "unit" of "$M" was common and always meant "thousands of dollars". Today it is really ambiguous and most people I deal with use "$k" to mean thousands of dollars and "$M" to mean millions. People can evolve, but it is slow.
BigInch,
The DOE US and Worldwide statistics often us MMbbl to state imports, exports, consumption, and reserves of crude oil. I sometimes see it in company annual reports and SEC 10K reporting. I don't see it much in talking about individual plant or flow line capacity.
David
RE: MMBL question
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
In my humble opinion, the term "billion" when associated with oil or gas reserves is equal to 1,000,000,000, regardless of units (i.e. bbl, cubic feet, cubic meter, tonnes). I have read some articles where they mentioned "trillion cubic meters of gas" or "trillion tonnes of oil".
Why dont you post in forum470 to get some more feedbacks (or confusion). Also ask the math forum for your "billion" dollar question : )
cheers
RE: MMBL question
zdas04, when I said MM is not accepted, I thought it would be understood:... by the International System of units (SI).
RE: MMBL question
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
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RE: MMBL question
Regardless of SI, metric, imperial, there are still many industries that use their "historical" units of measure.
For example, shoe sizes.
Within an industry, units are used frequently according to custom rather than any one system. It is very common, for example, for someone in my industry to refer to pipe sizes in inches, pressure in kPa, gas volume in mmscfd, and liquid voume in bbl. It's just the way it works.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: MMBL question
The first time I heard a Canadian ask for 3,000 meters of 2-3/8 inch tubing I cracked up. Now it just sounds normal. Canada is the only place I've heard E3M3 for gas volumes, but at a class I taught up there last month everyone understood MMCF's just fine.
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
The harder I work, the luckier I seem
RE: MMBL question
Come over here and you'll find not only M3 for gas, but also tons/year for oil flowrates... and they don't admit to understanding CF, however BBLS is OK, but we're digressing now.
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
David
RE: MMBL question
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: MMBL question
Kander:
In the oil refining business, M=1000 and MM=(1000)(1000) = 1,000,000 (one million in the United Sates).
We would not usually refer to oil quantities as MMBL ... instead we would much more often use MM BBL, meaning 1,000,000 barrels of oil.
I million = 1,000,000 = 106 both in the United States and in the UK.
1 billion = 1,000,000,000 = 109 in the United States but, in the UK, 1 billion = 1,000,000,000,000 = 1012.
Many European countries follow the UK convention, but not all ... so be careful to ask what a European means by 1 million or 1 billion.
Beware of India, a billion can mean many, many different things there.
Milton Beychok
(Visit me at www.air-dispersion.com)
.
RE: MMBL question
Being a UK resident I'm quite sure that a billion means 1,000,000,000. Certainly where I was taught.
UK follows SI units and has done since the late 60's (I think), but there seems to be a little confusions as to where the billion = 1x10 ^ 12 is used. I can't see this being the case anywhere in Europe.
Any ideas?
RE: MMBL question
YOU are the ONLY ONE confused. Why are you making a big fuss on semantics? If you have doubts on terms containing "billion", ask the source of that information. You will probably sound stupid to them, but at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that the billion means 1,000,000,000.
RE: MMBL question
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: MMBL question
I am an American who lived and worked in London for 8 years in the late 60's and early 70's. At that time, the billion in the UK was 1012. The UK had not yet metrified. There were still 12 shillings to the pound sterling.
Now that England has metrified, the billion may now be 109 as you say. If so, then I stand corrected.
If anyone wants more information as to which countries use which definition of a billion, I recommend reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
Milton Beychok
(Visit me at www.air-dispersion.com)
.
RE: MMBL question
Thanks for your help with this one. Quite interesting the different views from around the world on the definition of a billion.
Cheers,
Kander