Why do car models continually grow?
Why do car models continually grow?
(OP)
If there is one dynamic that seems to be constant across all models, makes, manufacturers, it seems to be growth -- in length/width/weight. You almost never see a car reduced.
Ex.: Minivans; the original Caravan/Voyager was a 4-cyl (only) that weighed around 3300# fully dressed up (the basic model was down near 3,000). Even with a feedback carb they were good for around 21/25 EPA mpg. Now you can't find one that is much under 4,000#, all are V6's, mileage is probably 18/28 (due to EFI and OD trans). If a minivan the size of the originals with EFI and OD were built, I have no doubt it would be good for 25/35. All are what used to be "Grand Caravan" length, I don't believe they even make the "short" ones anymore.
Ex.: SUV's; the original Explorers were V6 only, weighed around 3500 even with AWD, were certainly no mileage champs but were still in the 20's. They were also pretty reasonably priced. Now they are just immense! Probably all V8's and in the teens for mileage, near 5000# and $40k+.
Ex.: Honda Civic; they are now as big as an Accord used to be, and the Accord is as big as a Buick. Now they have the Fit down at the low end. Toyota, with the Corolla and Camry, same story.
There are many more examples. Historically in the US model lines, this phenomenon was in full swing throughout the '60's and '70's and progressed to the point of ridiculously sized land yachts that barely fit in a garage.
Why are we still continually moving toward bigger and heavier, instead of smaller cars, given the need for better economy??
Ex.: Minivans; the original Caravan/Voyager was a 4-cyl (only) that weighed around 3300# fully dressed up (the basic model was down near 3,000). Even with a feedback carb they were good for around 21/25 EPA mpg. Now you can't find one that is much under 4,000#, all are V6's, mileage is probably 18/28 (due to EFI and OD trans). If a minivan the size of the originals with EFI and OD were built, I have no doubt it would be good for 25/35. All are what used to be "Grand Caravan" length, I don't believe they even make the "short" ones anymore.
Ex.: SUV's; the original Explorers were V6 only, weighed around 3500 even with AWD, were certainly no mileage champs but were still in the 20's. They were also pretty reasonably priced. Now they are just immense! Probably all V8's and in the teens for mileage, near 5000# and $40k+.
Ex.: Honda Civic; they are now as big as an Accord used to be, and the Accord is as big as a Buick. Now they have the Fit down at the low end. Toyota, with the Corolla and Camry, same story.
There are many more examples. Historically in the US model lines, this phenomenon was in full swing throughout the '60's and '70's and progressed to the point of ridiculously sized land yachts that barely fit in a garage.
Why are we still continually moving toward bigger and heavier, instead of smaller cars, given the need for better economy??





RE: Why do car models continually grow?
I think I know why cars sold in America tend to grow after introduction: Americans are, um, well fed. After a couple years of opening the door to grab the seatbelt, they decide they'd like the same car, but just a little bigger, next time. Whoever has that just a little bigger size, gets the sale.
The car doesn't have to be a land yacht outside, but I think the sweet spot for interior dimensions is somewhere near what you got in a fifties 'merican station wagon, which is just a tick bigger than the Explorer.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
You build a nice neat little car to meet a perceived demand and market it. All goes well for the first year and then the complaints (recommendations) start..."It's a great car, but it sure would be better if it has a little more *****". After a few years you get a car that is either totally out to reach in price or completely out of the market spectrum it was intended to fill!
It's the American way. Toasters to jets, works every time.
Rod
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Be careful what you wish for lest you get it.
A camel is a horse that was designed by a committee, or in this case redesigned by customer feed back.
You need the product to evolve with the traditional customer.
Regards
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RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
"
Yes. Many of the people you ask about features for the new car are the previous customers for that car. Few will agree that it needs to be made smaller, have fewer cupholders, could drop the electric seat adjuster - basically, although nobody uses every feature, the ones that do use a given feature are more enthusiastic than the ones who don't.
If you've ever been in a product clinic, did you suggest that maybe they could reduce the max power of the engine? Or the top speed? and ditch 4 of the speakers? No.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Look at the Mk I Cortina. Compare it with a Mk IV.
Look at the Mk I Golf. Or the original Civic
etc etc
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
A current VW Polo is about the size of a Mk2 Golf, and a current Mk5 Jetta is about the size that the Passat was through the 1990's.
Every vehicle generation grows because they have to advertise "more trunk space, more legroom, more more more". For example, the Mk4 VW Golf/Jetta was criticized for lack of rear seat legroom. Well, DUH, the Mk5 comes out and the legroom problem has been addressed, by making the car bigger!
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Rod
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
This means parking at home is not a problem, and even parking at shopping centres and at workplaces is often not a problem.
In these circumstances, having enough rail infrastructure to put a railway station within walking distance of most homes is impossible, so the option becomes walk to bus, catch bus to train, catch bus from train to final destination, or just get into car and drive. Guess what everyone does.
High density cities, like New York, London, Paris, Tokyo etc, parking at home or near home is mostly impossible. With railway stations a reasonable walk from most people, it is easier to walk to the train than to where your car is parked. Guess what everyone does.
Ideology won't change that. Lots of purists get power then waste a lot of our money trying, but it simply does not work. People take the most convenient option.
Regards
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RE: Why do car models continually grow?
I was just in Japan for about 30 days and Taiwan for about 10 days. The first thing I noticed after exiting custom in LAX was I notice overall how fat Americans are. Regardless of age, 2/3 Americans appears overweight to me. It makes me gross looking at all these fat people, especially young kids.
In Europe and Asia in general, they have much smaller cars overall.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
You asked this question on an engineering forum: does that mean you think this is an engineering issue?
At the risk of seeming flip, allow me to point out that auto makers build cars that their customers demand, not the cars that their engineers would *like* to build.
Those companies that do otherwise are shall we say "penalized" in the marketplace.
Examples abound, but let me mention just a few:
Nash
American Motors
Packard
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
As much as Nash et al were penalized, don't you think Honda and others have been rewarded in the past for building "right sized" cars? (CRX, original Civics, Mini's, etc). Part of my question is whether the mfr's are wrong in perceiving that ever-larger, heavier, etc cars are "what the public wants". I think they may be losing as many customers with a larger car as they gain.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Crash worthiness is a consideration, but it is not the reason for the increase in bulk of the "smaller" cars. Improvements in design and manufacturing have allowed for smaller vehicles to maintain their crash worthiness without a lot of excess bulk. It is simply what the market wants.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
Say you have a succesful product in the marketplace, and it is time to give it a freshening.
Are you going to downgrade power output? no
make it less crashworthy? no
make it noisier? no
reduce the legroom? no
take out some cupholders? no
take out some features? no
All the pressure is on to increase the above, not reduce it
So are you going to spend millions of dollars so that the external dimesnions and mass of the car can remain unchanged or shrink, while improving it, or do you concentrate on what people actually care about?
To add to Rob's list: the entire British motor industry, except Morgan, Caterham and Westfield.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
For instance if a Camry grows beyond your current needs, buy a Corrola, if a Mazda 6 grows, buy a 3, or whatever name model range applies in your region and to your brand preference.
Regards
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RE: Why do car models continually grow?
What absolutely blows my mind is the constant growth of the American light duty trucks. If their gas consumption wasn't bad enough, the current rage is 4-door cabs that are immense, with some of the added cab length coming out of the bed. I'd like to see the EPA slap these with a "car" categorization, it would put an immediate end to that!
RE: Why do car models continually grow?
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