Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
(OP)
LSA is an outgrowth of the ultralight movement, and the general expectation was that the production LSA would be priced 3X the price of production ultralights. They are coming in about 5X to 6X! The European mfrs are trying to cash in on what they think is a hot American market.
I suggest that the LSA purchaser cool his/her enthusiasm until the prices come in where they ought to be. Any comment?
I suggest that the LSA purchaser cool his/her enthusiasm until the prices come in where they ought to be. Any comment?





RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
I completly agree - I was shocked at the prices. From what I see you could buy a nicely outfitted used 152 or maybe even a 172..
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
A bit off topic, but I would never compare an ultralight to a LSA, or any legitimate aircraft. The engineering of most ultralights is horrific, to the point that I fear for my family when one flies over the house!
Reidh
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
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Lawyers are still nibbling away at GARA
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and of course, any crashed aircraft < 18 years old draws lawyers as surely as a carcass draws vultures.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
typ.homebuilt LSA est
kit cost, matls $15K $5K basic matls
engine cost, 100hp 20K 18K discounted
labor, 2000hr@10 20K 5K using prod tools
tooling 2K 1K amort. 500u
special tools 10K 1K as above
..........................
total homebuilt $67K
prod overhead, 2xL 10K
profit, 15% 6K
........................................
total LSA $46K
This comes in lower than building it yourself, which makes sense in a production environment. LSA's are overpriced!
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Try figuring the cost of liability insurance that covers products out to 18 years from leaving the factory. Wasn't Cessna almost bankrupted before the 1994 law gave some legal relief?
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
That's correct; Cessna and the others got into trouble with claims.
Id rather see the big old mfrs involved in LSA than some greedy European companies. Cessna, Piper, and Beech showed how to mass-produce light aircraft.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
The best we could do on production at that time was 800 hours per aircraft.
The selling price at that time was $10,600 of which $3,000 was the premium per aircraft for liability insurance.
If you translate those numbers into today's dollars you are looking at $100,000 with about $28,000 for an insurance premium. This does not leave the manufacturer getting very fat. Hopefully the insurance premium has gone down, but I doubt it.
B.E.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
From your discription, sounds like you worked on the C-70, and if that is the case, we worked together at ARC for a short time. If that's the case, email me at n14ky@comcast.net. I'de like to catch up.
DS
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Yes that was me.
B.E.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
However the Special-LSA are a different story many are between 60K and 120K at the present time. Currently there are 20,000 LSA’s certificated in the U.S. and many flight schools are purchasing the Special-LSA for flight training to cut costs. I think in the next 3-years we are going to see a bib shake out in the LSA area.
So far from what I have seen most of the LSA are built better than the type certificated aircraft as far as quality control goes. However the powerplants are a different story, again time will tell if the LSA’s are worth the money/investment.
On my private web site I have all the certification data for LSA's you can find it at: http://www.stacheair.com Look under Light Sport.
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Let me explain my ballpark calcs. If I am a homebuilder, I will account for my time [casual hobby time] as $10/hr. Note that I accounted for overhead, markup, tooling, etc. I was trying to make sense out of overpriced LSA's.
Those who are overpricing their S-LSA's are doing the industry harm by marginalizing the production LSA. Mittel Europa pricing of cars and other commodities will limit LSA production to a narrow superluxury.
Many years ago when I was in the armored limo business, we built full armored Cadillacs and Lincolns for approx $160K. The European armored 600SEL was about twice the price. I got a call from a customer who wanted to armor his 600SEL. I told him to buy a Cadillac or Lincoln and get it armored. He was one confused and disappointed fellow!
RE: Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) - priced too high
Comparing homebuilding and LSA isn't a fair comparison. An Experimental Light Sport may be comparable, but a Special Light Sport is a completed factory airplane, so all the labor to assemble and finish the airplane is done on a commercial basis and needs to cover the true cost oflabor, benifits, overhead, engineering costs, and a reasonable profit for the investors.
An Experimental Light Sport is a partially finished aircraft that the buyer completes. This may be more comperable to a homebuilt, but keep in mind that the 51% rule of the homebuilt doesn't apply to the Exp. Light Sport, so more like 80-90% of the total labor for the airplane may be completed in the factory.
The Operating Limitations of a Special Light Sport allow more options than those of an Experimental Light Sport, so the additional cost may lead to better utilization and higher resale value.
Hope this helps