Learning a Language
Learning a Language
(OP)
I'm looking to buy some software or CDs or something to learn Japanese. Looks like there's hundreds of choices, and what works depends on learning style. Does anyone have a recommendation of one that works for engineers?
Thanks,
Dan
Thanks,
Dan





RE: Learning a Language
I speak English, and Spanish, a bit of German, and some Dutch, along with a smattering of French. I think a big part of any language is vocabulary, anything that helps you given your learning style to expand vocabulary is a good thing. I use CD's that I can play in my car. I look a bit crazy going down the road repeating words and phrases.
The best way to learn any language in my opinion is to dive into it, living in a country that speaks the language helps. I lived in Mexico for a year, otherwise I would not speak Spanish. The only French I know is from being in France for a few months. I know a little Dutch because I travel to Holland quite often. I found that watching Spanish language TV really helped me pick up Spanish.
Right now I am studying Hebrew intensively. After two semesters of Hebrew, I know a lot of words, and I can describe the grammer, and I can translate a text, but I have real difficulty in trying to string a sentence together in a conversation because I don't have anyone to speak it with. In my opinion the best way to learn it is to use it.
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
http://www.rosettastone.com
Look to spend $200-$300USD, but sometimes you can find older version of their software for around $20 if looking in the right places.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Learning a Language
There are rare, intensive classes where the teacher would speak only in Japanese. At first, very simply, and later more fluently and complex. The best way to take advantage of these classes is to spend a full day in the classroom, every day for several weeks. I learned to understand and speak Nepali in a such a situation. But I do not know if these courses are available outside the country where the language is primarly spoken.
Then there are the CD courses that are conversational and teach utilitarian phrases that you can memorize and take into the taco shop. Memorization is key for beginning, and for me, that is not fun, but a long commute provides a perfect opportunity for practicing and memorizing. I learned a few key Spanish phrases from the local Mexican take-out and made some friends, as well. But once, when I tried to practice my Spanish at a burger joint drive-thru in an area occupied primarly by hispanic people, I offended the drive-thru worker, who told me she spoke English just fine.
The best way, in my opinion, to learn a language is to marry a native speaker. I married a woman from Mexico, and she is forcing me to learn the language, want to or not.
RE: Learning a Language
aisikurimu (ice cream)
basu (bus)
etc. cant remember anymore.
But really, if you are not going to be exposed to native speakers around you, dont waste your time. You are going to learn only a little and if you dont use it, youll forget it right away.
RE: Learning a Language
Biiru - beer (BIIRU is an english word. The japanese word is BAKUSHU)
and for the quantity
1 - Ichi [ee-chee]
2 - Ni [nee]
3 - San [sahn]
4 - Shi, yon [shee, yohn]
5 - Go [goh]
6 - Roku [roh'koo]
7 - Shichi, nana [sheechee, nah nah]
8 - Hachi [hah-chee]
9 - Ky?, Ku [kee'yoo, koo]
10 - J? [joo]
And your good to go
FOETS
Social Drinker with a Golfing Problem
RE: Learning a Language
And I just hope your name is not Bill, because everything they say biiru, it sounds like Biilu (Bill in japanese).
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
It was the way a child learns, by hearing older people speak around them and trying to imitate it-and being corrected by the elders, that being the teacher in the classroom setting.
When life laid in my lap the need to know (Spain) Spanish, I replicated the process by utilizing the Berlitz language (cassette) tape series and later a VHS video series out of Miami Dade Univesity (if memory serves).
I also listened to a lot of short wave radio from Europe late at night (living at the time where Spanish speaking TV channels weren't available) which was beneficial because not only was there Radio Madrid, but the BBC and Radio France had Spanish lessons for their listeners.
I also travelled to a variety of Spanish speaking countries for business and social reasons and, well, lets say that I still remember the early struggles-not that I am completely without struggles now.
Now I live in a city where there is beau-coup Spanish on the television and in the society and I would rather watch a soccer match with Spanish or Portuguese speaking announcers than English if I can. They are jut more in to it. (I am watching English League as I type this-dry.)
Just as a child learns to speak and then years later goes to school and starts to learn proper grammar (didn't we all just lllooovvveee our grammar classes?), grammar has been a struggle since none of the above emphasized grammar.
My educated College Professor daughter helps me a lot with grammar when I need it. She was educated the classical way and graduated (twice) with some of those 'Cum Laudies', (kin to her mother) but has taken note of how I learned what I did and has taken copies of my Portuguese workbooks (the military kept the tapes) to incorporate the oral methodology into her 'classical' teaching methods.
I used the Berlitz language tapes to learn some basic German when life took me there several times about 25 years ago, and while I learned enough to get around and do OK, without the ability to speak it regularly and keep it up, I have lost most of it. After learning Spanish and Portuguese, I found German easy.
One of the biggest helps I ever got was a sales man for our company that I took to Spain once who didn't speak a word of Spanish but made the observation that "they just stick their jaw out and talk." When I picked up on that, Spanish was easier for me to speak. I did point out to my Spanish educated daughter who was teaching in Chile at the time that they didn't extend the jaw rather clinched their teeth. She had not noticed that previously but said that once she knew that, it made understanding their accent easier (she is married to a Hispanic from across the continent.)
Dcroasmu, I hope that helps and gives you some encouragement. Other than the two formal semesters of Brazilian Portuguese, I haven't spent a minute in a classroom learning Spanish yet I converse with customers in South America daily, and travel there about every other month. My position is based on knowing Spanish and Portuguese.
Regional accents still throw me. I talked to Mexico yesterday morning and it was like I was talking English, but I talked to Uruguay later in the day and wondered if I knew any Spanish at all. Keeping up with how to say 'huh' in the different regions is also interesting. Some say 'que?', others 'cual?', and Mexicans say 'mande?'. They don't mix, so you may be faced with the same learning curve.
I will tell you this. I can't speak for orientals, but Hispanics just love it when you communicate with them in their language and don't care a twit if you make some mistakes. The ones that are closer to you personally will do just as our parents did to us and will gently correct from time to time, but not enough to make it oppressive. I appreciate that.
I have taken numerous groups of people into Spanish speaking countries and watched people with much more formal classroom type Spanish training than I ever had struggle to communicate because they were too preoccupied with getting it right and not making mistakes. They still had that fear that the teacher was going to 'thump' them on the ear and call them down if they made a mistake.
The key is to just COMMUNICATE. What child waits until he/she learns a language before they start speaking? Just start communicating and the language will come.
rmw
RE: Learning a Language
rmw, spot on! Being from a Texas border town, I more or less 'absorbed' Spanish ... I am not afraid to speak even though I may not have the largest vocabulary or that my sentence structure may suck. On the other hand, my 37 year old daughter and my youngest son (35) both have over five years of formal Spanish in high school and college...neither will speak a word! No one has ever made fun of my language skills in Mexico, even though I most probably speak "Texican"!
Rod
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
Lots of basic vocabulary, and you'll pick up some Bushido spirit along the way.
RE: Learning a Language
RE: Learning a Language
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Learning a Language
With English, we know how to read words that are outside our vocabulary, but wouldn't know what they mean. Chinese and Japanese are a bit the other way round. The symbols white and bird together in one character might mean swan. You wouldn't know how to say it, but you would have an idea what it meant.
A two trees together might mean woods[林] and three together might mean forest[森].
Before you know it the book has you able to read many Kanji: the main characters the Japanese imported from Chinese when they started to write down their own language.
Text in the book would look a bit like this posting. At first symbols need to be explained, but you might find you can read some of the text below just using what you have learned above.
To learn to speak, you need to react in real time, and there doesn't seem to be any substitute for hard work: vocabulary, tapes with phrases and translations, practice talking with a teacher or conversations with friends, etc.
I had a tape to learn Russian which had soft voices and which was very sparse, where most tapes are completely filled. The tape took the form of a story on top of relaxing music. You could play the tape to relax on a bus to work or fall asleep at home. As a result one made the effort, as it was no effort at all. I had a week's holiday in Russia and it was nice to be able to talk to people when I was there. I could say more, but the only important point is that works well.
Here is a bit of text: the sort of thing I'd write to introduce my infant son to reading Chinese/Japanese characters. You can see how with a whole book [a small paperback] of "Read Japanese Today", one would have got past the hard psychological barrier of getting started.
Japanese has two small alphabets. Since they don't have small and capital letters, learning both hiragana [used for Japanese word endings, eg verbs] and katakana [used for foreign words, as stated above], is no harder than learning small and capital letters for a child.
=
My name is Marvin and I live in a house with my dad.
There is a 木 in the garden. There are many 木 in the 林.
A big 林 is called a 森.
Sometimes people will cut down a 木 from the 森 with a 斤 while you sit on a bench and 立.
Then the 木 is 新.
Some 木 are 火.
There is a 火 木 on the 山.
I was born on 24 日 11 月 1999.
I can count to 十, in Japanese, 一, 二, ..... 十.
====
A man 人
with his hands out wide, like "I caught a fish and it was this big" meaning big 大
with hands close together, eg a foot apart, meaning small, 火
two hands crossed making a total of ten fingers and thumbs, meaning ten, 十
sun, also meaning day 日
moon, also meaning month 月
RE: Learning a Language
I found some software and CD's at the local used book store this weekend, and plan to use those until official class starts.
Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions.
Dan