This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
(OP)
The photo and the plan explains it all. Enjoy 
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This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
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This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)(OP)
The photo and the plan explains it all. Enjoy
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RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Very good, COEngineeer!
Lineweights do matter, do they not?
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
So, for a play on your words ... one needs good drawings and a contractor with common sense. This should make a good text-book illustration.
Yogi Anand, D.Eng, P.E.
Energy Efficient Building Network LLC
ANAND Enterprises LLC
http://www.energyefficientbuild.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Dik
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
What a classic boner!!!!!
Stupid is as stupid does.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Since when have detail callouts been allowed to be stuck on the object to be constructed? The callout is also missing the arrowhead and I assume the heavy broken line is a hidden pedestal below.
Can't figure why the contractor didn't paint "2/A6.10" on the two stair treads though.
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
This is the kind of mistake everyone can laugh at because there is really no damage here! a fantastic place for a shrub as was said earlier.
if in doubt... ASK
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Even after I pointed out his mistake, the inspector required the bar at the top.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
As for the comment about there is no arrow. I rarely see arrows on this kind of detail symbol.
I've beat up the contractor, now let's talk about the drafter for a second. I get sick and tired of trying to explain to drafters how stupid people can be and why you have to bend over backwards to make drawings clear. I work with a guy who has been doing this for 30 years and he still doesn't get it.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
The longer the drafter is in the business the less he/she is willing to change.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Are there many drafters employeed out there? When I started in this business there were 2 "draftsmen" for every engineer. With the use of CAD over the last 10 years the drafter, at least in the NE USA, has gone the way of the dinosaur. Engineers seem to be doing alot of their work on CAD themselves.
I was told that back in the 50-60's it was expected that an engineer spend a couple of years on the "boards" before they were allowed to design. This had changed when I started in the 70's.
What is the experience of this forum with present day drafters? How many engineers do their own or partial CAD?
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Maybe a note on the drawings is in order:
"Call BEFORE making any decisions."
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
What is amazing to me today are the immense numbers of "draftsmen" that cannot even arrange plan, profile and elevation views in the proper locations on a piece of drawing paper, never mind pay attention to line weights. When you eventually find one that can, treat them with all the respect they deserve.... nothing short of what you would give Michealangelo Buonarroti.
BigInch
-born in the trenches.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
SrG.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Thanks for the post.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Its scary to think of all the unintended information that can be extrapolated out of a set of plans. Where the contractor should be asking questions like "what are the dimensions of this funky cutout in the stair?" or "what are these circles in the sidewalk and how high should they protrude above the surface?" they just forge ahead with incorrect assumptions.
I've noticed that the "good" contractors, engineers, drafters, etc. are the ones that ask lots of questions. Agree?
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
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RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
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RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
I am practising in Sri Lanka. I have seen this revision cloud like opening one occation. You get this profile when making openings in concrete slabs / walls with diamond coring rigs.
Clefcon
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
1. The Architect never responded to his RFI, asking for clarification.
2. The contractor showed the cut out on his shop drawings with dimensions asking the Architect to verify the dimension. The Architect failed to comment on any of the shop drawing verification requests, so the contractor proceeded on the basis that the drawings were approved with no exceptions taken. No exceptions means the review agreed with all the elevations and dimensions that the contractor requested be verified.
3. The Architect's response to the RFI was to see the structural drawings. The structural drawings refer the contractor back to the architectural drawings and also show no dimensions.
4. The architectural plans shows one cut out with 4 steps. The structural shows the stairs twice as wide with two cut outs and 8 steps.
I graduated in 1978 and have seen the quality of architectural and structural plans decline signifcantly since then.
I have seen structural plans where the interior beams frame into cmu walls above the roof outside of the building envelope. Ridge beams that were supported by the roof rafters. Details that can't be constructed because the members framing in are sloped and skewed and run into each other unlike the detail that shows everthing flat and at a 90 degree angle.
I am tempted, some times, to give out annual purple shaft awards to ten architectural or engineering firms who put out the worst plans. Such a practice would be bad for business.
However I should give out annual golden sliderule awards to the firms that put out quality plans. Even today their our many firms that still put out excellent plans.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Agree. That's what I had in mind when I replied "Looks like the Contractor was trying to make a point."
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Here is an interesting example of that:
http://www.concut.com/ps_halifax.htm
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
or was it?
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
"Just because it's on the drawings doesn't make it right!"
What the ?!
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Why does it sound like most posts are attempting to blame the Architect/Engineer/Draftsman?
Doesn't anyone know that the majority of the states in USA require General Contractor's to pass a written exam and have a certain level of experience prior to becoming certified!
I am licensed as a General Contractor and soon I will be taking the PE exam. When I took the exam for my GC license there were 5+(over 10%) questions on Florida Building Code requirements for stair riser/tread dimensions and a 5" riser is not allowed. PERIOD!
Regardless, I agree that drawing standards are important but there are no standardized requirements in my state so it falls on individual engineers/architects and those standards will vary from company to company.
In addition RARSWC has a point but the Architect should have answered the RFI, structural engineers ARE NOT Architects, dimensions of risers/treads is not on the PE Exam!
The principal of my company thinks that we as engineers need to dumb down our drawings to the point that a 2 year old child could build a skyscraper, I DISAGREE how about requiring GC's have just a little bit of common sense?
Either way some of the funniest crap I have ever seen, it's a shame the name of the builder isn't posted I hope he doesn't work in my part of town...
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
I think you are seeing this wrong. There is not supposed to be any arrow, the detail cut isn't stuck on the object, and there is no pedestal. The heavy line and detail callout is for a plan blowup detail of the edge of the door.
To me, this is mostly readable. True, the callout could have been pulled off to the other side, but we don't know that, we can't see the entire plan. This may have been the only spot available to locate the callout. It could have been moved up so it didn't look like a riser, but this is definitely the contractors mistake. I'm suprised he didn't question this odd looking stair!
I work on plenty of plans where space is an issue. As much as I hate having bad looking drawings, there is usually not much you can do about it, and you just have to fit things in.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
But the big question that has been bypassed is whether even the original picture is a factual portrayal of what went on. In doing some searching for this a while back, I found scads of references to the same picture, or versions with additional digital modifications, but never any hint of the actual circumstance behind this shot. It's obvious that the picture has been further modified digitally, it's obvious that similar pictures have been created digitally, and anyone reading Snopes knows it's not uncommon to have "real" pictures circulated with misleading descriptions.
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
RE: This is why you need good drawings (or contractor w/ common sense)
The last ten years has seen a decline in engineering standards. In the petrochemical business, the rise of the designers usurped the roles of lead engineers in the previous era (pre-computers) because we are 'copying' something that was done before....... Now designers stand alongside engineers eclipsed by the rise of the modellers. The modellers are defining and designing the jobs, and god help us! Drawings cut from the model are deplorable in standard, sackable offences! Expect more confusion.
www.motagg.com