Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
(OP)
Due to the nature of my work, I get to travel around quite a bit and visit many company's facilities. I see a lot of very complex automated machines (very cool stuff) all over the place. Mostly high speed injection molding (making plastic bottles), filling, and packaging machinery. Everytime I ask someone at these companies where the machines come from, their answer seems to always be "from Germany" or "from France" for some reason. Now I know the Germans have an excellent reputaion for engineering. Does France as well? Why isn't the U.S designing and building these machines? Are we not as advanced? Or we more expensive? I know we probibly DO design SOME of them, but it just doens't seem like many.
Does anyone have any insight on this?
Does anyone have any insight on this?





RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
They used to own a big fabric mill in the US. I asked them why they closed it. The answer surprised me, because it had nothing to do with direct cost.
The problem they faced was that the factory kept screwing up. Orders were wrong, or late, or both, and whenever they, the _owners_, asked for something a little unusual, they got a hassle, and a thousand reasons why it couldn't be done.
Now, they have fabrics made all over the world. Despite the geographic challenges, they can and do get total custom work done on very short notice, to everyone's complete satisfaction. The only downside is that they are always traveling, in order to maintain relationships and develop new ones. When they do it right, and they usually do, they don't even see the finished product until it's installed.
They kept that factory open far longer than they should have, because they wanted to keep it open, and keep the jobs in the US. They just flat couldn't do it, because the factory just flat couldn't do the job.
As much as anyone else here in The Colonies, I wish that sort of thing weren't happening, but it is, and not just within the textiles industry.
Blame a drug- addled, under- educated, under- skilled workforce. Blame short- sighted governments at all levels. Blame the Harvard Business School. Blame television. Blame a breakdown in our moral fabric. Blame ... us.
You can't blame the Germans or the French; they're just taking up the slack we've left in global competition.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
In general, your question is a good one, and would be a great conversation over a few pints at the pub. Why are some countries products considered superior? I hate to summarize, but the question really is a large and complex one:
Germany, like you said, has a good reputation for engineering. It is my opinion that this is a false reputation, and I feel the reason the German products have a good reputation is the “craftsmen” that actually put these assemblies together in production. Just to be a simple line worker involves a detailed apprenticeship, of which thousands apply, a hundreds are accepted, and a few are finally hired full time. These guys do excellent work, and as such are well rewarded for their work. In a country where unemployement is "high", they are not going to throw it away by coming to work on drugs, but they do sell beer in the plants.
Swiss have the reputation of making the best stamping machines in the world, and they usually have the price tag that follows that statement. I would also expect that this is related to their education system of their workers.
I don’t have much experience with France, but I expect that they also have a good requirement of the education of the common workers.
Now, let’s get into the US. This is the country where bigger and more is always better and quality just needs to be “good enough”. Management hires the best people you can find for $5 an hour to hammer and bang parts together, when they aren’t sniffing glue in the warehouse. These workers are never fired by management for coming to work waisted. Also, there is little desire to locally produce highly complex automated machines when you have $5 workers running and maintaining these machines. It is only a generalization, but if the “best” machine from a reputable country can be run forever with little maintenance, then it can run for quite a long time with Zero maintenance. I think that this is the mindset of management for buying the best machines.
-An American working in Germany dreaming of Danish girls Bavarian beer and a warm southern tropical beach
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
American companies are run by accountants not engineers. Look at the Bios of the people who run both.
The account/engineer thing is very apparent if you have moved from a GM car to a Toyota for example.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Somewhere, after reading this thread, Boeing is laughing and Airbus is crying.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Thank you for the very interesting posts! I hope people continue to respond to this thread!
, CuriousMechanical
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
American manufacturing isn't as much about cutting corners as it is about buying just the right amount of machinery necessary to get the job done and make an acceptable profit. Is the mfg. industry declining in the US? Sure it is. But I don't think it's because of quality or neat machines. Labor cost is a big issue, as is the fact that very few kids in school want to manufacture things. Why get dirty when you can sit in an office and play on the computer all day or work on webpages and media projects? Me, I have fun in my "sandbox" with all of my toys.
Oh, and hearing the drug-addled comments, that is definitely a problem. We lose more potential employees to the initial drug screening that you would believe!
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
If you work in an industry dominated by the German and French manufactureres, then I would guess that the majority of stuff would be either German or French.
For example, I think that the Japanese makes a lot of cool stuff too. Think Sony, Hitachi, Honda and Toyota. Didn't Sony make one of the first robots to walk a stair? Toyota made a car with an internal combustion engine that can fit inside a large Samsonite.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Is the U.S. the leader in any kind of machine technology?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
The marketing guys there told me that generally, CNCs for the US market had to be much simpler to operate that for the European market.
They said it was because of the European perspective on training for the manufacturing trades. Machinists in Europe might work through a 3 year apprenticeship to really become capable tool and die people.
They characterized the typical US machinists as high school drop out Jethro & Bubba types that needed to be spoon fed.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Taking the Baccalaureate is equivalent to taking the PE exam.
A Fench Engineer has gone through 18 years of study Vs 16 years for the US.
OK, they've got smarts, but check this statistic: Only 56% of French PHD's find full time work after graduation.
I don't care how cool things are if you cannot feed your kids, the US way does.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
A five year tool-making apprecticeship was typical and you would also attend college, some for the whole five years.
'Technician apprenticeships' were usually shorter, but you would need at least 'O' levels or a Technical College qualification / 'A' levels to start with. 21/22 years old was the usual completion age if you started a tool-makers app at the age of 15/16 or a technician app at 18/19.
For you USA-ites - I don't know what the equivalent US system qualifactions are, but you certainly wouldn't be a school drop-out, nothing like it.
The Ford training school was near where I lived then and they would get, literally, hundreds of applications for craft apprenticships every year and would take on, maybe, 50.
I started a technician apprenticeship in 1969 (age just 18) with a defence company. I completed it in 1972 (age 21) as an electro-mechanical draftsman
I still remember my first week's pay packet being £6 12s 6d (six pounds twelve shillings and sixpence for heathens). That's about $13.24 US.
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Before we hired fledgling tool & die makers, we req'd them to take both a mechanical aptitude test and a math test before they even got to the verbal interview part. The aptitude test looked for innate ability. The math test was basic: addition, subtract, multiplication, & division, all with regards to fractions or decimals. No geometry or trig. We were lucky to find a high school grad that could score a 70% on what I would call a 6th grade math test.
Many of the traditional apprenticeship programs, both union and non-union, are truly suffering in quality in the US.
The push right now in the states is that every kid should go to college, and that if you don't, you're doomed in life (those were my high school principal's exact words at freshman orientation). When plumbers are pulling down $60K a year and many fresh grads are lucky to make $35K in a non-technical field, I don't understand the logic. Not everyone can be a "knowledge" worker. And the school loans in some cases are like having your first mortgage.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Not everyone is well suited for a more academic path, this doesn’t mean they aren’t of value or even that eventually they won’t find their way into equivalent work as the guy with the degree.
Same was happening to some extent in the UK before I moved to the states a few years ago, not quite as far advanced but getting there.
One advantage the US seems to have is the associates degree. In the UK, unless things have changed since I left they don't really have this.
They do however have more vocational courses, NVQ & GNVQ for the last 2 years of high school than I've seen in the US although I'm not sure how well they've taken off or how good they are.
Certainly the apprenticeship scheme at my last place in the UK wasn’t very effective. They didn’t really invest the time in it to gain maximum benefit, also a lot of the apprentices themselves didn’t really appreciate it. It was probably 6 of one, half a dozen of the other but either way it wasn’t really working out. Sad thing is one of the senior employees had been an apprentice instructor in Portsmouth Dockyard back when apprenticeships meant something. However because of personality and ‘his face didn’t fit’ he wasn’t involved in the program, can’t help thinking he may have had something to add!
Certainly most of the ‘engineers’ at my last place in the UK had done apprenticeships with some HND, HNC, City and Guilds or equivalent ‘college’ (not quite the same meaning US – UK). This included the chief stress engineer and he was a darn sight smarter then I with my Bachelors.
I believe Germany has what seems like a good scheme for Engineering Technicians etc. We get a lot of interns from Germany and I believe they are from the technical schools not universities as such but I’m a bit confused by the details.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
While the Germans and Italians do good business in selling their goods and do it the Indian way.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Rather than paraphrase the entire article...here is the link so everyone can read it.
http://www
I see a lot of people are talking about the lack of skills and trianing of machinists and technicians. What about engineers? I don't feel like engineers are being trained very well either (and I myself am one in training). As a recent graduate, I was just kind of thrown right into it on my own with no solid mentor figure (except for a short period of time). I feel like I basically teach myself everything I need to know. Although I have learend a lot, this doesn't sound like the best way to train an engineer to me. I know of others in my situation as well. Is this common? How should an engineer be trained?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I can not definitively speak regarding the "cool" machines you speak of.
Having said that, I am sure there are leading edge "cool" machine companies in the US, Germany, Japan, France, Canada, etc.
Ever hear of the Canadarm? It's on the space shuttle. I think that may qualify as "cool". It was design and built in Canada I would think. So, in some instances, it may just be that it is not advertised as well as some others.
To the rest of the let's bash the US school system postings:
Yes, various countries have different requirements for schooling. And yes, obviously, some work better than others for some people. Across the board, to say one system is better than the other? I don't know. If the system is so good in France, or Germany, or the UK or wherever, you would think that there would be a corresponding "copying" by othr countries? or a corresponding dominance by that country in a specific trade?
In the automobile industry, who makes the best cars? Italy? Germany? Japan? UK? US? Each nation has had its contribution to automotive history.
Instead of concentrating on which country has the best school system, or apprentiship program or whatnot, I think that more likely, it is chance that a genius just happen to come from a specific country.
Anyhoot, to answer the OP, yes, I think if you look, there are "cool" machines being designed and built in the USA.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Walbro are very good at this in the USA and I was impressed by their initial fuel tank facility in the UK some years ago.
Ford also used to make their own plastic tanks (Visteon now, I think) but I never saw the advanced capabilities that Kautex have, in spite of some of their early machines coming from Kautex.
If you ever get a chance, take a look at an Audi Quatro fuel tank (Kautex).
I didn't think this thread looked like a 'bashing' session. People are airing their views about the systems they have experienced.
In my experience, the UK's system of vocational education is virtually non-existant, in spite of what government says.
This issue (good vocational education) seems to be something that is becoming more common in the western world.
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
The creation of a few laws and regulations and rules could do wonders in making the US more inovative and competetive.
Instead they pass laws that make it easy for the people who are robbing and dimantelling corporation to wreck the wealth producing factors in the economy. Those people contribute to their re-election campaigns and spiral continues downward.
If we could just get them on that spaceship with the Telephone Sanitizers and hair stylinst.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Fair enough - "bashing" may have been a bit more than required.
He clarified what he meant by "cool".
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Not sure they meet all your requirements but they are pretty clever, I've been working on them over a year and still don't get a lot of it.
Plus most of them come with a robot to enabalize the automatic loading of wafers.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
A slight off-thread response, if I may.
in the 19th century, the image that many people would have had of the 'creation of wealth' would have had something to do with, I would suggest, three things:
Ideas and innovation
Investment
Last, but by no means least - Hard work.
Whether at the highest or lowest levels in society, if you weren't involved in one, two or all three of these things, you had to have inherited wealth to survive.
I think this would safely apply to farming, industy, engineering and trade.
I also think that this was so during the 20th century up until, say, the 60s.
What happened next?
Well, in the UK we began to see de-industrialisation. Where goods became cheaper to source from outside the nation and where the manipulation of money and the growth of financial services suckered the government and the people into believing that this was the future.
The idea of the creation of wealth via manufacturing and 'adding value' seemed to be lost, and with it the need to train and educate your skilled tradesmen and engineers.
In the UK, until some time around the late 70s, there were numerous technical colleges involved in engineering industry training programmes. Now, in the region where I live, they see so little need/value in this sort of work that the three technical colleges accessible from my home town have moved all their capabilities onto one site, thus slashing the availability of the course by 60 or 70%.
You can get plenty of courses on hotel management, catering and hairdressing, by the way (BJC - were they all on Ark 'C'?)
So, where is it going?
Personally, my own view is too fogged by information and experience to see clearly.
If your ecoomy if too focussed on 'investment' and 'financial services' rather than a balanced mix of finance, trade, industry and agriculture, how will a nation fare in the teeth of an international recession?
If your car industry can't compete with low-cost labour and minimal regulation in China shouldn't you be looking at higher-tech products with greater added-value. or should you loan China the money to develop their car industry for your own short-term gain?
My opinion, for what it's worth:
Rounded education and fundamental technical skill, whatever industry it's in, provides the foundation for stable industry. It may not provide the fat cats with the opportunity for humongous salaries and ginormous bonuses, but it's probably what provides the mass of a population with an income, one way or another.
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Well said. If you go shoppoing anywhere in the US it's hard to find something not made in China. You can find a few things made in third world countries but not much made in the US.
China and Japan hold about 60% of the US national debt. China could wreck the US with out ever lighting off a missle.
My contention is that in the modern world the only product worth producing is education. You must build and economy that continually inovates. You must come up with new products and processes continually. If you don't the old ones will become obselete or others will copy or improve on them. If you don't inovate you degenerate and eventually you move to being a colony in the classical definition.
I still can't imagine a 100% service economy.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Go to 2007 world Machine Tool output & consumption survey
To get some surprises about this thread
http://www.gardnerweb.com/consump/produce.html
Regards
Luis marques
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I never thought of people not wanting our goods because they are not metric. Is this a major issue? I guess our machines would be pretty obnoxious to work on. For example, replacing bolts, nuts, bearings, etc. Is it hard to get inch-size commericial items in foriegn countries?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
That said from a user view point, if they're computer controlled it shouldn't be that much of an issue should it?
Obviously the maintenance issue is more significant.
My guess is if the tool is better value (taking into allowance potential extra costs due to inch dimensions) then it wouldn't be a show stopper but, if it's otherwise similar value to a metric tool it may be the deciding factor.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Our yacht builders are about half and half, but it hardly matters, because they haven't yet understood the concept of interchangeable parts.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
The literature for the product indicated that purchaser could select several types of threads, why they picked Panzer Threads who knows.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I could start another thread altogether on this story.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Scharnhorst shafts
SS nuts
Messerschmitt bubblecars
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
It appears that more than half of the French (including my wife
The imaginary aspect and indeed beauty of French engineering can be seen in certain cars, especially '50s-'70s Citroens like the 2CV, the Méhari (my favourite) and the godly DS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn). After the brilliant ideas had been turned into detailed drawings in their purest possible form, practical and hopelessly boring aspects like maintainability, corrosion protection, reliability of hydraulic and electrical systems were not given much consideration.
French engineering is obviously doomed (the French are born pessimists for some reason) as they schools are hopelessly retarded and the most brilliant students leave the country, but it is still driven by a certain pride and a strong will to think outside the box. The thinking outside the box sometimes becomes obsessive, e.g. when Renault or Peugeot tries a zillionth time to design an original car that can compete with higher range Mercedes or BMWs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Vel_Satis) but it keeps French machines interesting forever.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Sadly C and M have revealed feet of clay. The other one is taking over the world. By building beige machines beautifully.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Hmmm....other than the inventor of punched cards, Joseph Jacquard, I haven't seen many (if any?) French names in the history of the development of computers....or should that be ordinateurs, as the French have it.
As for business use - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Computers
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
************************************
Modern Parable
A Japanese company (Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced Long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the Reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior Management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person Steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person Rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a Consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second
Opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the Boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent Another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was
Totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering Superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 Person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the "Rowing Team Quality First Program", with meetings, dinners and free pens
For the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and Other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor Performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and Canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was Distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing Team was outsourced to India.
The End.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
A little known secret that might explain why European engineering seems to be way ahead of say, American engineering, in many areas is that the education system weeds out aspiring but academically underqualified potential engineers and scientists in the transition during teenage years to high school. Now this was a while ago, apologize if this isn't the case yet, I recall learning in Deutsche Klasse that Germans take the 'Arbirtur' exam when they are about 12-13 yrs. of age--do well, you get sent to the university track high school. Do poorly, and you get sent to vocational track. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as in places like Germany there appear to be plenty of jobs for machinists and other vocations. In the US, those vocational jobs are disappearing fast. The downside of course is that you miss all the 'late bloomers', kids who aren't necessarily academically mature enough at 12 yrs. of age to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives (I am told by others that only engineers seem to 'know' that at age 12! LOL).
How much of the 'buy European machinery because it is superior' is perception rather than reality? So much of the selling process is centered around creating market 'buzz', manipulating perceptions, generating positive word of mouth. Maybe the Germans, Swiss and French are just better at generating 'buzz' and positive feedback.
Don't you worry about Airbus--Europe has spent billions propping up this monstrosity, trying to grab market share from Boeing (which has its own subsidy issues, of course), they'll just keep tossing money at it until their problems go away or are masked.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I know two excellent engineers who came from Europe. Both were sorted out at the age of 12 or 13 or so and destined to be electricians. Both went abroad to work and eventually wound up in the US. They both continued their academic training and became engineers. One got his PE and is doing very well.
If they had remained in the UK and Germany they would have been Electricians and probably done OK. They didn’t like they sorting process that determined at 12 or so what you would do the rest of your life.
At 12 I didn’t even know there was such a thing as a EE.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Putting aside the language difficulties (also known as me not being able to speak any of their native tongues, including 'American'), I'd say that many (not all) had a reasoably rounded education but there were also many that had heavily academic educations.
It doesn't hurt to know how to weld, drill holes and mark out. Or how to solder, wire-up and test. Or to dig footings and pour concrete. These ought to be things practiced during training.
I think that you do sometimes come across lads (especially males) who show an aptitude for practical sciences at the age of 12 or 13 and I was like this in my school, along with several others.
I also think that, with some 'modern' education systems - like the one we seem to have in England now - that young people like that get overlooked now. Where once thay would have been fodder for apprenticship schemes, they are now neglected in favour of the academically 'sharper' students that, perhaps, excel in IT and language-based subjects.
At 13, I thought I would like to study physics, but realised in time that I can't do big sums.
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
But I know that my company has budgeted for a 30% rise in pay for the next year in China and India.
When deciding where to produce our products...England, US China or India, the senior management use the following guidelines.
If it can be automated or if it requires high spend on CNC's then the US or England will make it, as cost of machinery and associated overheads is higher China and India.
If it can be assembled by hand, then China or India as labour is very low cost.
CFD analyist in England £27,000-£30,000. Same level of skills in India less than £10,000.
In India every year the market is flooded with 25,000 newly qualified engineers, although the term 'qualified' is a loose one. But there is no doubt there are lots of very clever young engineers in India. The trouble we have is that being so young, they have no clout with the older staff. We have some very good engineers in senior positions but the social structure prevent them from being effective.
It is similar in China where social and cultural differences dating back 50 years are getting in the way of business...
In my experience the US companies that do the best are the one that have reached out into Europe.
Regards
Adrian
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Charlie
www.facsco.com
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
In the US, like many other western countries, it is the managers,accountants and lawyers that earn all the money. None of these professions actually create things, they just move money and resources from one place to another.
Therefore in the US, the best and brightest will be more likely drawn to the more profitable professions therefore draining the engineering profession of the most brilliant minds (no offence meant to my fellow engineers).
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
While US high schools may not be the best, US engineering schools are superb.
I worked overseas for 13 years with Europeans and Asians. Does any country turn out better engineers than another? After 30 years in this game, no clear pattern has emerged. Experience and attitude play a greater role in determining the better engineer than does country of origin. On top of that there is the talent factor, which is very much an individual thing.
I've encountered more US engineers with a broad multidisciplinary capability than engineers of any other nationality. Having a multidisciplinary background is an advantage in many situtations. Most problems are multidisciplinary by nature.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I used to own a Harley, now I ride a Yamaha.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
bmw m3 v corvette on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUxNEBKxzHk&NR
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
-The days of Saturn V are over. The era of $1 bil toasters on Mars are in.
-We can't construct an interstate highway through the Rocky Mountains in 5 years anymore. But we can sure as heck repave a 3-mile stretch of highway in 2 years.
-Don't worry about inferior American cars losing out sleak German machines. Soon GM and Ford will be Chinese cars....which still consequently are still inferior to Euro and Japanese cars.
-Come 2008, socialized medicine will mark the beginning of the end for biotech and pharma research in the states. How silly of us to invest billions in R&D.
-The EPA will ensure that we never catch back up to the French in nuclear technology. If the EPA were to allow an efficient and clean source of energy....well, that would just make too much sense.
-We'll always be good at refining oil...and no one can take that away from us (except if OPEC doesn't want to sell us any more).
It's a shame, we have so many bright engineers in America, and nowhere to use them. Bah, time to go finish my TPS report.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Since we can't go forward with real things in the US, we design new standards and criteria to repair or upgrade what we have. For example;
We now have to have a permit notification to take a 5HP gasoline air compressor onto a BLM land gas well, but in the winter I can rev up my 150HP snowmobile all day there.
Poor land owners that sold their mineral rights years ago to build a huge house on their land are now crying that the oil companies are spoiling their view with an oil well....
We have to install gas incinerators on each well site for those 4 times per year the well is vented for work, but the cattle feed lot 200 yards away releases more methane and oboxious odors every minute.
But, that incinerator and the 5HP air compressors must be cool machines because they get the attention of so many people, I'll bet more people applaud them than any ol Porche
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Getting back to the OP, I think there are many factors that make "cool" machines more prevelant in those countries. On top, or at least near, is the condition of the legal system in the US. I would suspect that companies that were in the business of making some of these machines began to shy away from cutting edge technology for fear that if they missed something the US courts would cut them up like a side of beef.
Second, development of many unusual commodities requires a group of workers with a specific set of narrowly focussed talents. I suspect the coorperate philisophy of the companies producing them reflect this kind of team building necessary to create and maintain such a team.
A third contributer is the ethos of the country itself. I have been told often that in other countries, engineers are the top tier of society, with doctors and lawyers slightly below. This would serve to attract brighter individuals into engineering and these engineers would likely be more dedicated to their profession. In the US, I not only see much less emphasis on engineering, but I see an amazing emphasis on marketing. I suspect this detracts from the importance of engineering and manufacturing.
There are other contributers, but these are a few off the top of my head.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Germany might be losing their edge in automobiles...I looked at BMW's before deciding on the Corvette. After driving BMW's for the past 16 years I wanted something with higher performance. The latest styling and colors available from BMW were just plain boring. My red 400 HP Corvette is a whole lot of fun, more comfortable and better handling than any BMW I've owned. Serious fahrfenugen. ;)
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
"Renault engineering perceived as 'too French'"
Unfortunately there was no clarification of what "French" engineering is.
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
All the plastic trim gives off a garlic odour and the ash trays come ready-filled with Gitanes ash.
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Bill
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
Still, it had over 200k miles on an 1.8l petrol engine, and the engine was in very good shape when I sold it. Nice long distance mile-muncher.
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: Why are all cool machines from Germany or France?
I drove my colleague's Laguna and several other recent Renaults but I don't like any of them from driver's point of view (steering, gearbox and other pretty essential things).
But getting back to the OP they are cool machines, as long as someone else pays the garage bills.