Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
(OP)
I'm graduating w/ my master's in May in ME. I've been interviewing and currently have a offer in the midwest. I'm from the southeast and am in school down here. My offer is great money working for a big company. The job sounds fairly interesting, though similar day-in/day-out. Good lateral and vertical career options though. From what I've heard from others, this company has a reputation for paying their new engineers better than anyone else.
I interviewed w/ a local startup here last week. I think it went really well. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, so to speak, but the guy made it sound like I'd probably get an offer from them, though I've thought this before with nothing coming out of it. After talking about money, it'd probably be significantly less, say 10-15%. I really like the company and the work I'd do. It's automotive/suspension/vehicle dynamics sort of work. I spend a good bit of my free time learning about this stuff and posting/reading on this forum anyway. Why not get paid for it, right? Not too sure about advancement, but the line of work and experience sounds really great.
I'm from the area here (southeast), married with a wife making decent money here who would prefer to stay local, but willing to move. Both of our families are less than 2 hrs away. I'll start out making more than she does (significantly in the midwest and a little more locally). She is definitely employable anywhere. She's in employee benefits and knows her stuff.
Do you guys have any suggestions. I feel like it may be a little risky with the startup, but I believe in their products and see good potential for company growth. Although, job security and money/benefits/cost of living lean towards the midwest.
I interviewed w/ a local startup here last week. I think it went really well. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, so to speak, but the guy made it sound like I'd probably get an offer from them, though I've thought this before with nothing coming out of it. After talking about money, it'd probably be significantly less, say 10-15%. I really like the company and the work I'd do. It's automotive/suspension/vehicle dynamics sort of work. I spend a good bit of my free time learning about this stuff and posting/reading on this forum anyway. Why not get paid for it, right? Not too sure about advancement, but the line of work and experience sounds really great.
I'm from the area here (southeast), married with a wife making decent money here who would prefer to stay local, but willing to move. Both of our families are less than 2 hrs away. I'll start out making more than she does (significantly in the midwest and a little more locally). She is definitely employable anywhere. She's in employee benefits and knows her stuff.
Do you guys have any suggestions. I feel like it may be a little risky with the startup, but I believe in their products and see good potential for company growth. Although, job security and money/benefits/cost of living lean towards the midwest.





RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
Other than that, you seem to have a handle on all of the stuff to consider. You just need to figure out was is more important to you.
Just coming out of school, there is little risk to you working for a start-up. The worst case is they fold, and you need to look for a job again, but with some real-world experience now.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
In a start-up, you may not have anyone to mentor you, and may be expected to mentor someone else. I think you would rather learn new skills. Start-ups may fail, while an established company should be stable employment, but there are no promises.
Also, consider the cultural shift from being in the SE and moving to the mid-West.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
A larger company tends to cultivate specialists, e.g., "subject-matter experts," although a few people are sometimes allowed to be more "jack-of-all-trades."
TTFN
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
This will give you an excellent understanding of how a business is run, should you ever decide to start your own company.
Additionally, you're at the point where should the company go under, you're young enough to find another job relatively quickly.
TTFN
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I started working with a new small company in the SE right out of college. It has been, and continues to be an exciting adventure. My job/career satisfaction is superb.
Your career choice greatly depends on you. The large company may be "considered" a safer career option (although I do not agree with this assumption). The amount of experience you recieve within your first few years at a small vs. large company is not really comparable. You can expect to do "real work" at a new company, and you will be very directly involved in the company's success (or failure).
If you want a paycheck, better dental, and more vacation...go with the giant size company. There is nothing wrong with giving yourself the illusion that you are playing it safe.
If you enjoy the unknown, and can handle some risk without stressing over it...go with the small company.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
BUT
Startups are often started by people with little experience.
If they in turn hire people without experience, they are probably doomed. Most startups are doomed anyway, but if _nobody_ knows how to do _anything_, the odds get worse.
OTOH,
if nobody anywhere knows how to do what the startup is trying to do, it may succeed because it won't be limited by preconceived notions.
That's on the technical side. If the startup has no experience on the business side, it's doomed regardless.
On the other, other hand, you have a support system in place where you are, so if the startup tanks, you're not stuck in a strange town with no friends.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
In summary, don't under-estimate the value of the things you will do in a start-up company which aren't in the job description when you are laying the foundation for your career. A year or two in a start-up will make you very employable. Just don't expect to get rich in those first years!
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
It seems that everyone seems, more or less except for Mike H., to agree that I'd probably learn more about how businesses function as a whole with the smaller company. I'd agree based on what I saw while there.
I'm just a little insulted by Mike's first post seeing how he doesn't know much about me and my qualifications, though I think I understand what he's trying to say.
To address Mike's second post: if I mentioned the owner's name and the company he sold a few years back you'd know who they are and know they know the market they are in based on where I see you posting elsewhere on the sight.
I guess a startup may not be what I should call them. They are about 3 yrs old and have business with the military and make money now. They are exploring opportunities in other markets and I may be confused here, but I think they may have a "no compete" agreement with the business the owner sold a few yrs back that keeps them out of a certain business segment for another couple of yrs. They are, however, poised to be back once they can.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
The other thing, people get the misconception that large firms are about specializing people in one thing and just do that for years (like the movie "modern times" by Charlie Chaplin), this is totally false, large firms offer a variety of projects and assignments that no small firm ever dreams of getting their hands on.
Do you think that te US government contracts out its space program such as Mars missions or the Manhattan project to a start-up?
In a large firm, in addition to money and benefits, you get to go to seminars, travel, belong to scientific organizations (all paid for), even have influence over the way business is done in your field.
And one day, when you want to change jobs, you will notice that coming out of a large firm, you will be considered easily by everyone, especially the other large firms, which is not the case if you come out of a small firm.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
My experience with the big company is what got me the job I have right now and I didn't even mention the start up on my resume.
rmw
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
TTFN
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
A new/expanded operation by an old hand is not a true startup; it likely has the business side under control, and would not be dumb enough to hire a neophyte. So, apparently you do have some experience, or some skill valuable enough to offset lack thereof.
I apologize if any of my conjecture offended you; that was not my intent.
I think the central advantage of the typical large company is that they have the resources and can take the time to teach you their preferred way of doing things. There is some variation among large companies on what what ways are preferred, but all are at least internally consistent, and to some extent responsible for the company's success.
In a true startup, chaos reigns, and evolving a set of rules/ beliefs/ practices from scratch (as opposed to just stealing them by hiring experienced people) burns up money and time that are better used for other pursuits. Luckily, that's not what you face with the local option.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
In one stretch, I've worked the same job for 9.5 years, but at 6 companies, A, which was bought by B, who also bought C, to which we were transferred, which was finally consolidated into B, but who then sold us to D, which has reorganized twice, since.
TTFN
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I think the decision depends on what you want to do with your career. A big company can provide a good basis for the processes and techniques you'll use later. They may also provide the opportunity for continuing education (MS or MBA). A big company also looks good on a resume. The downside is that you'll probably feel like a cog in a big machine. Mostly because that's what you'll be.
Small companies are harder to characterize. You could find it to be a fantastic place to work, or it could be worse than a prison sentence. It depends heavily on who your coworkers and leaders are, and if the industry they are in is growing. The upside is that you'll likely have more power to influence the way things work.
Ideally, you'd work for a big company for a couple of years to see "how things are done" at that level. It will give you a standard to compare to later.
Job security in the classic sense is an illusion. If your big company is out in the middle of nowhere, without other employers nearby, then you could be screwed if they "reorganize" your division. The only real security is knowing the market for your skills. Medical benefits are also of little value at your age unless your about to start a family and have the wife stay home. I'd only be looking at the cash and 401k matching in comparing the positions from a compensation standpoint.
-b
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I think if you get the offer on the local job, you should take it. But I think you'll be happy at the mid-west job if that ends up being the only offer you get. Either way, as long as you don't spend the next few years wondering what if? you'll be doing the right thing.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
As for the company choice: When I graduated, I chose to work for a small start-up company. It really does stretch you thin! I worked long hours for much less pay, but was exposed to a tremendous range of technical and business scenarios. After 2 years, I got tired of it and went to a large, international company.
I hated every minute of it! It was total "Office Space", and most of my coworkers couldn't engineer themselves out of a paper bag. I lasted 6 months and went back to the small company.
Since then I have continued to learn far more than I would have at the large firm. I passed the SE1 first try, and feel confident being faced with any number of structural issues. Not only am I growing, but the company is as well. And, eventually I will be eligible for partnership in the company.
In the end, I wouldn't think of where you want to be in 2 months time, but rather 2 decades time. If you want to have a career of 8 to 5, corporate engineering, then so be it. I have many friends very happy with that. However, if you envision yourself owning your own firm some day, you won't learn the secrets of small business anywhere other than at a small company.
Good luck either way!
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
1. Your first job. You should start in a large multonational company and stay there a maximum of 2 years
2. Your first boss
3. Your first project
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
My first job was with a small firm. I've also been in midsize and large firms later in my career but there are many valuable lessons learned from the small firm that are priceless. Larger firms have larger projects and each employees is a part of a whole. Small firms, projects may be smaller but you may be given full control. People have different preferences so I can't say which is better.
If I were you, I'd take the local job, be close to the family and learn the trade. Few years down the road opportunities will present themselves to you, whether you like them or not.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
So John J, its going to be who you pick or get stuck with as your teacher. Today, the small companies have robbed the big guys and the better people in engineering are with the startups, on the average.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I have no intention of bashing big firms because I also know many talented people there, but my general observation is that the average staff knowledge base is much deeper in smaller firms. Downside is, small firms generally pay less so after newbies get enough experience they find better opportunities.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I started with a small company. We are growing at a very healthy rate (not too fast....but steady).
My starting salary was about about 5k below the average starting salary of the nearby corporate giants when considering the same kind of entry level position. In 2.5 years, I have increased my salary by 30%.
Much of my career so far has been very challenging. When catching up with college friends, I've discovered I've had much more oppurtunity to learn (and much more oppurtunity to really screw up) than those who went with the giants.
Small companies are not for everyone. It WILL be more demanding, more risky, and more challenging.....and potentially.....more rewarding. To be successful in a small firm, you will need a little luck that you don't need in a large company. Your benefits will probably be better at a large company also.
There is not a right/wrong way to go. However, I believe that "most" engineers are better suited for large companies. The the guys with lower gpa's, but outgoing personalities are generally better suited for small firms.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
My current place is mid sized. Several hundred, maybe even 1000 employees spread across the world (mainly in US). My site is in Santa Barbara and has perhaps 200 people.
While I have some great colleagues at my current place I have to say that all in all my first small place was far better. My starting pay was comparable to the big boys, and my career progressed pretty rapidly learning a lot, doing a lot, and being rewarded accordingly.
That said I am now very much the proverbial "jack of all trades master of none" which can be both disadvantage or advantage when applying to the big boys.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
I'm now at a much larger company which basically only has assembly in terms of manufacturing etc.
It's not necessarily just the size that's important as others above have suggested.
RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
At the big places, I've received a good salary, good benefits, training, the opportunity to go to trade shows, and the chance to work with the newest hardware and software.
At the small places, I've received less money, poor to no benefits, no training, no company-provided chances to see what's out there and been offered out of date tools and software pirated off of the internet.
At one startup, I did earn nearly twice what I've ever earned before but two years later, was laid off with the dissolution of the engineering group. Here I am four months later, still wondering what future I might have in engineering and where my next job might be (and hoping like heck it's not at Home Depot, Wal*Mart, or Radio Shack).
Were I in your shoes, I'd take the big place and never look back. To me, though, stability and opportunity are much more important than exciting, cutting edge work. Of course, I'm 42 and have a family so my priorities may differ from yours.
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RE: Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job
If you move far away from family, try to predict the annual cost in travel and deduct that from the proposal from the large company for a truer comparison. You will burn more vacation days when living away from home. Also, consider that the cost of living in the Midwest is higher then that in the South. There are some good websites out there where you input your income in one state and it tells you what you would have to make in another state to maintain your lifestyle.
As for me, I am with a midsize company with about 1000 employees. I have seen the benefits of both big and small.