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Rigid Work Schedule

Rigid Work Schedule

Rigid Work Schedule

(OP)
I wanted to get a quick poll from users.  I currently work for a large Structural Engineering Firm that affords me the opportunity to work on many interesting jobs and be exposed to all aspects of structural engineering.  I love everything about my job except for the work hours.
Our office hours are 8:30 - 5:30 and other than coming in at 8 and leaving at 5, there isn't much flexibility in the hours.  I can, of course, leave if I have something to take care of at home, but I would love to come in at 7-7:30 and leave at 4:30.  Other places I have worked have had much more flexibility in the schedule.  At my last place of employment, I routinely went in at 6:30 and left aroun 4.  
There are several factors that contribute to my wanting different hours, not the least of which is my commute.  If I could work earlier, I would shave about 15-20 off of my drive each way.
What is the norm out there as far as work hours go and flexibility?

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

My company is very flexible about when we come and go and where we do the work.  

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

My company is also very flexible. I work 5-2 each day strictly because of my commute (30 miles each way). The traffic around here sucks so by keeping the hours that I do, I manage to miss the heavy volumes. It also makes me a much happier (read: productive) employee.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP2.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Official hours here are 8 to 5, but there are many options an hour or two either side of that.  Of course, there are meetings, teleconferences, etc. and some are in other time zones so some flexibility is expected both ways (i.e. by employer and employee).

MYerges, have you been told that you cannot come in and leave earlier?  Have you asked?

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

The company at which I work is not so flexible on this.  We are supposed to be in the office between 8 and 5 unless there are extenuating circumstances.  What really gets my goat is one particular long time employee who still comes in sometime around 9:30 or 10 (never the same time day-to-day).  Notices have been sent out to everyone about the company rules, but he is still here (or maybe not, he could have left early).wink
Other than the longer commute time, these hours are fine with me, and if I feel like coming in earlier or staying later, I do get compensated for it.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

(OP)
Canuck Miner-
I haven't asked about switching my hours.  There was mention of this during a meeting about 4 months ago (that office hours are until 5:30).  I have been reluctant to ask because I have been here for only about 8 months and I haven't heard any grumblings from other employees.  I haven't really asked others about it yet, but thought it would come up from time to time if people were unhappy about it.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

The only problem with flex hours that vary too wide is this:
When you need to talk to someone, you need to talk to them now. It helps to have everyone in place at the same time. Projects can loose momentum when too many people scatter the hours.

Charlie
www.facsco.com

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I've worked for a large firm and medium firm with flex time ranging from 6:30-3:30 up to 9:30-6:30. However, it seems if the company does not have a flex time policy, you're stuck with the hours they give you unless you want to come in earlier AND leave later. Who wants to be the jerk leaving at 4:30 while everyone else gives him dirty looks? I think you would be better off to start getting some support to approach management about flex time for everyone.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

One of the main reasons I took my current job is that the work hours are flexible. I work at home a couple days a week, and otherwise come in at 6 and leave by 4. This works well with my commute, plus I do a good bit of work with people in Europe and it makes it convienient to work with them. We also work a 9-8-0 schedule so I get every other Friday off.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I would not attempt to try and change the company policy, since you are a newbie this would probably be ignored.  However, you should be able to have a frank conversation with your direct supervisor and find out if he will be flexible.  

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Many larger companies tend to be strict as to the hours that their employees work (i.e. B@3ing), though some departments inforce this less than others. At the company I work for, I could come in at 3:00am if I wanted to but they would expect me to be available for meetings and such. I routinly come in at 6:00-6:30AM and leave between 3:00-4:00PM even though our official hours are 8:00AM-5:00PM.

David

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

As a parallel question, if the nominal work hours are 8:30 to 5:30 I wonder if MYerges might be looked at as a slacker if he/she leaves earlier than 5:30. Even if the boss says it is ok.  In some offices if you don't stay 30 minutes to an hour past quitting time you are considered a slacker.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

We have core work hours of 0900 - 1500 hours.  As long as we meet those core hours it's flexible.  For example, I buzz out of the office on Mondays at 1500 hrs for a mtn bike ride in the foothills.  I have it on my calendar and make up the hours during the week.  I've worked at places that were very rigid and it's not fun.  I tend to work more hours because of the flexibility.  Sometimes my wife calls asking me when I coming home shocked

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he'

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Are the lights on and the doors open earlier? At some places it is the opening and closing of the office that controls things.

My place is flexible as long as you meet core hours and you can change everyday. I know other places that are flexible only if you are the same everyday.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

During my first evaluation at a true "industry" job, I was told my work was great, my performance was great, but I wouldn't get an above average raise because my hours (7:30 - 4:00 w/ half hour lunch at my desk - approved by mngmnt) were causing grumbling amoung others who saw me leave early.  I told the boss that it seemed the others had too much time on their hands if they were watching when I came and went but that didn't get me any more $$$.




www.probasci.com -
Implantable FEA for medical device manufacturers

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Our Manufacturing group is here at 0500 hrs so the facilities are up and running long before I get here.  But we have key cards that let us in the controled entrances.

My hours are totally flexible and anything outside of the core hours I just e-mail or call my boss.  I meet all my deadlines and show the highest level of productivity so I don't get questioned.  It helps that my boss in not a micro-manager.  Although, a designer got caught "fudging" his hours and now has to e-mail my boss when he comes in, leaves for lunch, comes back from lunch and leaves for the day.  His next step is out the door if he does it again.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he'

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

(OP)
HDS-
The admin staff is usually in between 8 and 8:30.  We all have keys to the building and our office (mostly so we can get in on the weekend if we need to), so it is not a matter of the office physically being open.

ProbaSci-
I just have my 6-month review about a month ago (it was a month late), and I was told that my work was great and they were very pleased with me.  Much other praise was thrown around...... but no need to bore you with that.  I don't get a raise until my 1-year review, so it will be interesting to see how that goes.  

All-
Has anyone brought up or initiated the flextime or was it in place when you started there?

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

We officially work 8.5 hours a day Mon-Thur and 6 hours on Friday.  That was set up with the State of California so it's official.  Their was a movement here about six months ago for a 4-10 schedule but that got shot down because of the approval process with the State.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he'

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Our hours have forever been the same unchanging hours.  But when I moved to where I was 35 miles away, I asked about coming & going an hour earlier & it it was no problem.  People that lived closer didn't care one way or the other.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Officially my place is fairly strict.  

In practice my direct manager is extremely flexible, most weeks I work 4 x 10 hour days, actually closer to 1x10, 2x11.5 and 1x 7.  Somedays in before 6, somedays as late as 7:30.

Of course if I'm not here when I'm needed...

Loading up the front of the week actually can work quite well.  Often if means I can get more done at the beginning of the week, give it to people to review Thursday pm & Friday then come in on Monday and complete it.  Of course if everyone worked my schedule this wouldnt' work anymore!

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

My first job was very flexable.  So long as I was generally in the office (or out in the field), between the hours of 9am and 3pm (M-F and assuming I didn't miss any 8am meetings.... then any way I choose the work my 40 was acceptable to my boss.  I generally worked 9 or 10 hour days early in the week and took off early on Friday (usually around 2)

Now my schedule is very strict 4-10's (7:00 to 5:30).  I'm not sure which work schedule is better.  I don't like the schedule being so rigid now....but I really enjoy have every Fri off!!!



RE: Rigid Work Schedule

We are supposed to start at 8:45, break at 12:30 for lunch, come back at 1:15 and finish at 4:45. If you're on the stairs at quarter to 4 you fear for your life in the stampede. The number of cars in the car park come half 5  can be counted on one hand (from an office employing about 300). If you call the switchboard over lunchtime, you won't be put through to whoever you are trying to call (although you can ask for a direct dial number and call back!)

Flex time is usually brought up once every couple of years and the directors blame the parent company for not allowing it. Remote offices around the company seem to get away with it though.

I work on the theory that I am a professional and I'll get all the work done that is asked of me (including arriving at 7am to travel to meetings on site if necessary). So I usually arrive at 9am and leave about 6pm. I get more done in that last 75 minutes than in the whole day up to then. If I am ever pulled up on arriving late I'll join the 4:45 stampede and my work will suffer accordingly.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Just make sure you are there the same hours as your boss and your boss's boss. Part of being in the network is the face time.  If you are seen "coming in late" or "leaving early", your career will suffer. Take it from the experienced PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I used to work for a large multi national firm of consulting engineers.  The management were often asked about introducing flexitime but they always refused saying it did not suit the company.  Our hours were 9.00 to 5.30 (1 hour for lunch).  There was a little flexibility at local levels but no policy.

The cynic in me thinks the reason the company never offered it was because of all the 'free' hours of work they got from employees.  They claimed that they needed all their engineers in the office at the same time, but other companies managed it.

In reality most staff came in before 9.00 and left after 5.30, but were only paid for the 7.5 hours.  The company got the rest for nothing.  If they had flexitime the staff would start working out how many additional hours they worked and take them back on Friday so they could leave early. Or maybe I am just delusional.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

(OP)
One other thing I should probably mention is this - another reason I have been a little reluctant to ask about flex time is that the director of engineering lives about 1.25 hours away.  He does work from home frequently, but is 1.25 hours away nonetheless.
I appreciate all of your input in this topic.  I think I am going to wait until my 1 yr review and bring it up then (provided my 1 yr review goes as well as my 6 month review).

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

http://www.cleanaircampaign.com/

In Atlanta things are so bad there is a government office dedicated to promoting ideas like flex time to reduce traffic. They have a section on their web page about how to get your employer interested.

One thing that fixed hours allow is car pooling. Is there anyone that lives near you? I've worked in the same office as my room mate before and we had to take different cars because the hours were not predictable.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Seems to me that flex time would allow more people to carpool that fixed hours, if they wanted to do it.

Another thing that comes up is lunch- 1 hour is fine for those that like to go eat, but I'd rather eat at my desk and then go home 45 minutes earlier.  But that seems not to be an option.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

(OP)
We actually get a catered lunch for free everyday at 12:00

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

My employer sets hours from 8:00- 5:00 with a one hour lunch.  We are allowed to take as short a lunch as we want and leave earlier.  Also, the employer allows us to bank up to 4 hours compensatory time on any day over 8 hours.  Though we have to work at least 40 hours a week unless we can balance the deficit with previously banked compensatory time.  In theory, one is allowed to work 9 hour days and take friday afternoon off, but it's considered faux pas within the establishment.  

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

From the different perspective of the one-man band:
I normally need to average four billable hours of work per day (M-F) each week.  Super flexible.  Sounds like a piece of cake, but for what I count as billable is fairly narrow.  Plus, I have to do all my own promoting, web management, accounting, etc. on top of the design work (that peripheral stuff really adds up).

Where I previously worked (real job), we were supposed to be on-site by 8:00 am and I often didn't leave until 6:30 - 7:00 pm M-F.  No compensation for time beyond 40 hrs/week.  Needless to say, I decided I didn't need that crap anymore.

Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reason trumps all.  And awe transcends reason.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I work for a small structural office.  The official hours are 8:30 to 5:30.  It is strict in general, though you can take off early / come in late for unique situations.  I should add that the real hours are more like 8:30 to 6:30.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

In: before your boss gets in
Out: after your boss leaves

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Quit, get another job, and tell them the reaosn for leaving.
PS: Don't look back. Anyone not willing to accommodate his/her employees does not deserve to have those employees.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

There are pluses and minuses to flexi time.

Whilst it is true some people get more work done without the constant hassle of a busy office, others view this as time to drink more coffee, surf the net and generally be slack.

It is easy for a company to make a rod for its own back, in the UK at least you have to be seen to not favour an individual, so if you let Fred start early for whatever reason you have to let anyone else that wants to, or else it is discrimination and heaven help you if that becomes racial or sexual.

Security is also an issue, unless the premises are manned (or should that be personed?) 24/7 do you give everyone a key that might possibly be the first in or last out? If you do watch your insurance prices rocket, if you don’t is it really flexitime or just moving your hours? What happens the one morning that the people that normally start early decide to come in at 8.00 and someone is left in the car park for two hours?

Another downside is heating and lighting, if you turn an eight hour day into the office being open twelve watch those bills rise, anyone who has been in the position of “turning the lights off” will know how careful everyone is to ensure all none used items are turned off, yeah right.

Do you deal with companies in different time zones? If so does this affect the amount of time you can actually contact each other? Also for meetings or even personal contact it cuts down the time people are together and depending how flexible a company is you can actually create a situation where 4 key people are never together or only for a few hours a week.

On the plus side you will probably have a happier work force and certain people will be more productive, but there are down sides as well. Each company will view this differently, but it is not necessarily them just being bloody minded.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

Quote:

In: before your boss gets in
Out: after your boss leaves
  Then I would end up working 13 hours a day.  That's just crazy thinking

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

(In reference to David Beckham) "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he'

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

my last boss was the worst. he was an unrealistic old school asian workaholic. needless to say, i quit after a year. He said we could work on "flex-time" outside of normal 8am to 5pm. So I came in at 7am but when I tried to leave at 4pm, he says "flex time" doesn't mean I can leave early. It only means i can come in early. that guy was an idiot.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

My companies office hours are pretty rigidly fixed at 8-5.  It is possible to get off to do the occasional Dr's visit, bank stop, etc if not abused.  While they have recycling bins for paper, when quizzed about saving the planet by heeding the government's admonition to let all employees who could work from home do so one day a week, they would have no part of it.

My job requires a lot of travel.  All who travel know that it can involve brutal hours at times; flights at 6:00 AM means arriving at the airport sometimes as early as 4:00 AM, and flights back sometimes get you in as late as midnight.  Most flights to the southern hemisphere are all night flights.

I am about to stipulate to them that if the companies hours are to be rigidly adhered to, then 8-5 is 8-5, and that means no more early or late flights, much less overnight flights.

I am tired of them having it both ways.

rmw

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

rmw,
I hear you man, in other countries, employees have a travel stipend (a per diem per day in addition to all expenses paid-the cost of taking a man away from his family). In the US, it appears that employers think that employing someone is doing him a favor, and therefore they can ask all they want.
Well, that's how we also have two weeks of vacation, while the rest of modern world has four weeks.

Your 8-5 request will not fly, it will only irritate the boss (and I mean really irritate), I think you should ask for comp time instead, or better yet, extend your stay by a couple of days at the company expense, or ask that your spouse be with you on a trip, fly the night before the meeting (bring fatigue, jet lag,  at the meeting as the sole reason), etc..
I've found that employers can be responsive that way. They are somehow willing to compensate in "nature".

Now, if you look at it from the boss's perspective, he is looking at 30 plus guys doing a super bowl pool, and being Monday morning quarterbacks at the water cooler, he adds up 30 guys wasting four hours each on Friday and Monday (240 hours down the drain) just to talk superbowl, and you get his picture on things, so he figures, asking you to travel on your own time is only pay back time.

You may be the good guy paying for the bad guys, stay cool man, don't irritate the boss.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

At my current job (motorsport tier 1 supplier), we have two options 7.30 - 3.30 Monday to Friday or 8.30 - 4.45 Monday to Thursday and 8.30 - 3.30 on Friday. Lunch is half an hour 12 - 12.30

My previous company (Military aerospace) was fully flexitime. You had to be in for the core hours of 9.30 - 12.30 and 2.30 - 4.30. Otherwise it was free reign and you could finish at 12.30 on a Friday and have a "flexi day" off per month on top of the 25 days annual holiday plus the other bank holidays that aren't taken out of your holiday allowance. Fitter, happier, more productive....

Oh BTW - that company is making the US presidential helicopter when the current one is decommisioned.

Ben

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I too live in a town where traffic sucks.  Thanks to my flex schedule I get here around 7:15 AM and leave around 4:45 each day.  It saves probably 10-15 mins each way from an already 40 minute commute.  One manager will often try to re-schedule a weekly meeting at 4 PM or 4:30 PM and will only inform you during the day (not the previous day) as to this meeting.  These meetings usually last about an hour.  After I told him twice that I had been there since 7 AM and would now be leaving at 6 PM and "why not have the meeting at 3 PM?" I finally gave up and am going with the "have to pick up the wifes car at 4:30" excuse:).  

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

In such travel cases, I normally bill clients at a percent of my rate (such as 25%) for all time away from home, plus standard billing for "on-time" while at the destination.  I cannot bill nothing for that time, so this seems to be something fair we can agree on.

Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reason trumps all.  And awe transcends reason.

RE: Rigid Work Schedule

I once had a job where I could work 5am-1pm with a commute of 40 minutes each way.  I was in heaven.  I lived right on the St. John's River in Florida.  In summer the sun would go down around 8-8:30 so I would get home with at least 6 hours of daylight left.  I had a dock to fish off of, my boat was kept in my boathouse so I could be underway 10 minutes after I got home, and there was a wonderful little Cracker seafood joint 5 minutes away by boat where people could sit on the dock outside and enjoy, as the sign said, "The Best Catfish On The River" and wash it down with an ice cold beer.

Sigh.

Now it's 8 to ???, I usually am doing my 1 hour commute home in the dark, and the closest body of water is a retention pond.  The bottom of my boat hasn't been wet since October.  I cannot imagine a more heinously tortured victim of the decline of the US automotive industry than my sorry butt.

John Nabors

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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