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Enclosed, please find...
6

Enclosed, please find...

Enclosed, please find...

(OP)
When I started my first job, the owner of the company used the above to start the narrative to most transmittal letters or faxes.  I picked it up and started using it but I never checked its veracity in English language grammar.  Any thoughts?

RE: Enclosed, please find...

I use it.  Sort of a formal "bill of lading" to inform the recipient of what else should be in the envelope.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

In my formal typing training you were ment to list "enclosed" items at the end of letters after sign off.

However it of course makes sense to reference them in the main body and what you've put seems perfectly good, I certainly use it on occasion.

The one I picked up was a sign off of "trusting this meets your immediate requirement" whenever responding to customer or anyone else with information they've requested.  I got this one off my first supervisor, an ex Portsmouth (UK) naval dockyard engineer.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Er.  The usage is correct for letters and parcels: "please find a blahblah enclosed [with this letter]".  For a fax, I use "please find blahblah attached [with this fax]".  Not a big issue, but I can just see some dork opening up the fax machine to look for the drawing that is enclosed within it.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

I picked up the same phrase "Enclosed please find..." used on transmittal letters for drawing approval submmittals by a former Manager of Engineering. It always sounded stilted to me, but then he was British.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

From the above listed link:

07 November 2006
Enclosed please find . . . .
Gary Blake is coauthor of one of my favorite business writing books. Now, at Business Know-How, he lists "The 10 Deadliest Words and Phrases in Business." Among them: "Please be advised," "Please do not hesitate to contact me," and "Enclosed please find."

Check out the full list; it's a good refresher course.

Technorati Tags: Gary Blake, business writing

Posted by Ken in Revising | Permalink

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Thanks, PEinc. Good source. It justifies my inherent dislike for those phrases.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

(OP)
Great post, PEinc!  Star for you...

What cracks me up is that I broke #6 in my original post!

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Enclosed = Attached

RE: Enclosed, please find...

please find herewith...

Luis

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Please find herewith.......
Enclosed herewith.......
Attached herewith......

RE: Enclosed, please find...

2
PEInc,

May I dare to disagree with certain self-pronounced business writing experts?

I don't see why "enclosed please find" or "please don't hesitate to contact me" would be deadly just because everybody uses them. Just as if saying "how are you" when you meet your customer would be deadly too.

What else is one expected to write? "In the same envelope in which you found this letter, you will find another piece of paper: our quoation for this job". "If you have any questions and feel like calling me, please go ahead". The problem with these more original expressions (apart from the fact they're longer) is that you can't use them 2 or 3 times or the other person will note the repetition, so you'll have to stay creative and "surprise" your customer each time with a new original way to say the same thing (a rather useless way to spend your precious time).

You don't have this problem with a cliché. There's just nothing wrong with using a cliché each time you want to express the same thing. If you don't use a cliché you will become just as annoying to your customer as the co-worker who "surprises" you every morning (for 25 years) with another original reply to "how are you".

winky smile

RE: Enclosed, please find...

from the site that was quoted:

"In fact, writing is a process that can be managed, like any other business process. If you can manage people, money, or time — then you can manage your writing."

Hey who mentioned clichés! smile

PEInc I don't mean to attack you but these experts just get on my nerves...

RE: Enclosed, please find...

No offense taken.  Someone has to be a writing expert.  It certainly isn't you or I.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Professionals, attempting to use language that diverts the blame from them to the other person.  Professionals using the communication skills they obtained from another professional, to write a letter to another professional, and sound professional at best.  As in please refer to the attached Field Density Sheet for specific locations.  Funny, though, some of those specific locations can turn out to be building corner north.  I think the communications can be summed up as directives, substitutes, and objectives.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

from the site:

Quote:

"7. "Please do not hesitate to contact me." - I'll refrain from writing, "If I had a dollar for every time I see this phrase used...." because then I'd be using a cliché to criticize a cliché'! The prevalent "please do not hesitate" was a light, bright phrase when it was coined almost a half-century ago, but now, like most clichés, it pays a price for its popularity. When you use a cliché, you subtly send a message to your reader that you think in clichés. So, innocuous as this phrase may sound, it does portray its writer as blandly impersonal. Use: "please call me," polite with out the cliché connection.

On what planet is  "Please call me" equivalent to  "Please do not hesitate to call me"?

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

expert

ex = has been

spert = drip under pressure

Therefore: expert = has been drip under pressure.

Why would you listen to them!winky smile

RE: Enclosed, please find...

SPURT not spert

RE: Enclosed, please find...

I'm not too sure I'd pay much attention to a word mechanic who suggests using this sentence:

 "I am sending you it separately."

I'm not sure that it breaks any rules, but it sure is ugly.

"I am sending it to you, separately." sounds much better to my ear, albeit at a huge increase in typing effort.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

You crack me up Greg.  I'll have to remember that phrase "word mechanic" for my boss.  I completely missed the  "I am sending you it..." but I agree it's butt-ugly.

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

The problem with "please find" is it implies some kind of search for something.  "XYZ is enclosed" or "I have enclosed (or attached, or appended) XYZ" is much more straightforward.

My own little non-standard peeve is that I like to use "enclose", "attach", and "append" fairly literally.  If it's a fax, I refuse to use "enclosed" or "attached" even if it means using the relatively non-standard "appended".

Not that I've faxed anything in years.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Ah, for faxes I use 'to follow' however, I don't send many these days.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

I was taught;

"enclosed you will find..." to be used in place of the dreaded "enclosed please find."

rmw

RE: Enclosed, please find...

My favorite definition of an EXPERT is "One who approaches every problem with an open...mouth".

RE: Enclosed, please find...

I disagree with the author about the use of the closing "Sincerely".  Why should I have to explain to the recipient that I am not lying?  I mainly stick with "Regards" and sometimes "Thank You" depending on context.

John Nabors

Two wrongs do not make a right.  Three rights, however, make a left.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Gary Blake's finding fault with "antiquated" phrases?

I, for one, would like to return to that time when people could actually write (or speak) a complete sentence.  If you want to use "Enclosed, please find..." or "Sincerely..." and you don't mind sounding as if you just arrived from the 1950's, why should anyone complain?

At least you aren't using "prolly", "LOL", "lite" or any of the other made-up words so common in today's vocabulary.

I don't have a problem with the use of antiquated phrases but I just want to scream when I receive an email at work with no punctuation, no capitalization, or one having any of the other "shortcuts" that people want to take when writing a business memo.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

michfan,

I totally agree.  Why is it that people think they do not need to spell correctly, punctuate anything, etc. when writing e-mails and other memos?  It's just people being lazy.  Also, most of those people "prolly" don't know how to spell, punctuate, etc.  Now, they feel that they don't need to know how.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Michfan,
What the heck "LOL" "prolly" mean?
Today, I was told to take a WAG at the incremental cost. I went "huh?".
I found out that it meant Wld Ass Guess. Yeah, I learned something today.

Sometimes, I get so lost in these forums, I don't know if folks are using abbreviations, interjections, or just an internet chat type of shortcut.

Oh, here is another one, I was asked: "what is the plural of y'all?" some kind of red neck joke I guess. Anyone willing to take a WAG at it?

RE: Enclosed, please find...

"what is the plural of y'all?"

that's easy - it's "all y'all"

RE: Enclosed, please find...

Dude, WAG is old, my dad used to use it when I was growing up.

One that got used at my last place was CDF, meant common sense but the literal translation was a little vulgar for this site.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

YALL is plural. But it's also used in the singular.

RE: Enclosed, please find...

And they give calculators to kids in first grade.  That is why the guy at the McDonald's window can't change a $5 without looking at his screen...  

I used to commute 2+ hours between home and U of M .  I had an 8 am statics class with a Monday morning test.  I accidentally left my calculator at home that trip.  I took an entire statics exam without a calculator.  We were always required to turn in the scratch paper we had used - that way, we'd get partial credit if we were on the right track.   My professor asked me what all that was on my scratch paper and I explained that I had left my calculator at home so I did the calcs long-hand.  He laughed and said I could have borrowed his calculator...I said, no, I don't know how to use the graphing kind...I made it through college with a TI-30 solar calculator and have never owned anything "stronger".  I did get an A on that test, btw.

My nephew learned "inventive spelling" in the 3rd grade (public school in Michigan).  He was taught to guess at a spelling if he didn't know it, rather than look it up in the dictionary.

Not to knock public school (I went to the same school as my nephew, just 20 years earlier) or anything, but do they expect kids to be dumb nowadays?

My final rant...I went to the library on Sunday.  I wanted to use the card catalog.  It is fully computerized.  All of the computers were taken by kids surfing MySpace.  I couldn't even look up the author of a book I wanted to try to find.

That IRKS me, y'all...

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