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plural singular confusion
2

plural singular confusion

plural singular confusion

(OP)
Ok let say there are 4 rooms A,B,C & D. Each room has 1 bed. Which of these sentences is correct?

1  The beds in room A, B, & C are king size.
2  The bed in room A, B, & C are king size.
3  The bed in room A, B, & C is king size.

I feel that the 1st one is correct but can also mean each room might have more than 1 bed.  Help me out here.  English isnt my 1st language.

RE: plural singular confusion

None of the above.

"The beds in rooms A, B & C are king size"

(note also that by convention there is no comma before "&")

To avoid the "how many beds per room" ambiguity, it's probably clearest to go to two sentences.

"Rooms A, B and C each have one bed.  These beds are all king-sized".

A.

RE: plural singular confusion

(OP)
Rooms A, B and C each has/have?  smile  English is so confusing smile

RE: plural singular confusion

I agree with zeusfaber.
None of the above.

"The beds in rooms A, B & C are king size" is correct.

And for me ... they better be king size!
 

Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: plural singular confusion

What is confusing?

You are writing about more than one bed, you use the plural "beds".

You are writing about more than one room, you use the plural "rooms".

This doesn't change if you happen to be writing about beds and rooms in the same sentence.


Have/has is nothing more than the conjugation of the verb "to have".

I have, he/she has, they have, it has, and so on.

RE: plural singular confusion

(OP)
The beds in rooms A,B,C, and D are twin size.  How many beds are there total? It is not explaining there is only 1 bed each.  Thats why I am confused.  Sorry if you think it is not confusing because it is your native language.

RE: plural singular confusion

"How many beds are there total?"

At least two. Probably at least 4.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: plural singular confusion

Quote:

The beds in rooms A,B,C, and D are twin size.  How many beds are there total?

There is no way to know from the information provided.  The sentence is ambiguous with respect to total quantity.

It may be reasonably assumed that there is at least one twin-size bed in each room, but this is not guaranteed.

The sentence does not rule out that there may be more than one twin-size bed in any one room, or all rooms.

It could be argued that the sentence implies that there must be a non-zero quantity of twin-size beds in each room.

It is certain that there are no beds of other than twin-size in any room.

By the way, in this context "twin" defines a specific size of bed.  It has nothing to do with quantity.  In the US, the standard sizes of beds are (from smallest to largest):  "twin", "double", "queen", "king", "California king".  

Also by the way, your written English is excellent.

RE: plural singular confusion

You need to decide the quantity with which you are concerned.  If you are talking about more than one bed, then it's plural.  If you mean only one bed, then it is singular.  

One of the beds is broken.  In general you are discussing a group of beds but your sentence is relating information about only one.  How many beds are broken?  Just one, so it is singular.

The beds in rooms A, B and C are broken.  How many beds are broken?  We don't know from that sentence but it must be more than one because beds is plural, therefore you use are.  In your example, you wouldn't say "The bed in room A, B & C..." because one bed can't occupy more than one room; it doesn't make sense.  Also, since you mean to talk about more than one room (by saying A, B and C, instead of or) "rooms" would also be plural.

RE: plural singular confusion

Depends on which hotel it is.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: plural singular confusion

It depends on which piece of information you are trying to convey. If it is the size of the bed "The beds in rooms A, B & C are king size" will let your audience know that there is a king size bed in each room. If it is how many beds there are in each room and how many there are in total, you can't summarise it clearly like this and you would be better off with "Rooms A, B and C each have one bed.  These beds are all king-sized." as Zeusfaber suggested.

RE: plural singular confusion

(OP)
Ok, I think I made it more complicated that it is suppose to be.

RE: plural singular confusion


For me

"The beds in rooms A, B & C are king size" is correct.

And… have a good sleep or enjoy the bed.

Cheers

Luis

RE: plural singular confusion

Defintive(???)

"The solitary bed in rooms A, B & C, is king-size."  

Frank "Grimey" Grimes
You can only trust statistics 90% of the time.

RE: plural singular confusion

If the amount of the beds are king size, each bed is also king size.

I hope they are not broken

Luis

RE: plural singular confusion

Quote (GrimesFrank):

The solitary bed in rooms A, B & C, is king-size

To me, this would suggest just one bed being shared between the three rooms.  It conjures up a number of alternative images - all involving John Cleese.

"Solitary" is an interesting choice too; it makes me picture a room which not only has no other beds, but is also bare of all other sorts of furnishing.

A.

RE: plural singular confusion

Try "Rooms A, B, and C each have one king-size bed"

RE: plural singular confusion

I like the last one by handleman.  What happened to Room D?

RE: plural singular confusion

Handleman doesn't entirely escape ambiguity.

His version still begs questions like "yes, but do any of them have any other sorts of bed as well as the Kingsize?"

A.

RE: plural singular confusion

Rooms A, B and C each have one bed, each of which is king-sized.

RE: plural singular confusion

You'd be a bit surprised to walk into room B and discover a queen size bed as well.

"Rooms A, B and C each have one bed only, each of which is king-sized."

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: plural singular confusion

Tomfh and Greg's suggestions both look pretty hard to misconstrue - though both sound a bit like Mr Fawlty very near the end of his tether.

No chance of a family room then?

A.

RE: plural singular confusion

The Oxford comma is deprecated by most style guides except where it removes ambiguity. However, at least two style guides generally recommend it.

If you remember that a comma represents a spoken pause you'll probably find you use it correctly.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: plural singular confusion

COEngineeer, I can sympathize with you about counting beds in a foreign language....

Years ago I was travelling through France with a friend of mine and we met met a couple of nice French girls with whom we spent an enjoyable afternoon and evening.  

Sophie and Armelle were kind enough to accompany us to the hotel so they could help us check in. I thought I'd impress the ladies with my command of their native language, which after a few bottles of wine was, I felt, quite formidable.

So in my best high school French I asked the hotel clerk for one room with two beds: one for me, one for my friend. (Despite out best efforts, alas, the girls were going home.) The clerk looked puzzled; les filles blushed and then started laughing.  

What I had actually requested was ONE big bed for all four us.



 

RE: plural singular confusion

JNieuwsma

that was a truly good counting for the beds
a star for you!

RE: plural singular confusion

The number of beds is answered in the top line, 1st person to start this.  The correct way is:  "The bed in rooms A,B,C&D are king size".  1 bed in each room, 4 rooms.  1 bed singular word bed.  4 rooms, plural rooms.  Is is for singular, are is for plural.  You would not say, who is you going with, you would say who are you going with.

RE: plural singular confusion

"The bed in rooms A, B, C & D" are king size" is incorrect. The bed....are king size????  "Bed" is singular; "are" is plural.

One bed can't be in 4 rooms.  I still think you need the comma after C.

RE: plural singular confusion

Looking at this, I think that you have to change the sentence to quantify the number of beds to 'The bed in each of rooms A, B, C & D is king size'.

Kevin Hammond

Mechanical Design Engineer
Derbyshire, UK
 

RE: plural singular confusion

PEinc hit it on the nail - many seem to believe that the verb is tied to the word "room"/"rooms".  It is not.  The word room/rooms is part of the prepesitional phrase "in".  The subject is bed and if bed, then you use "is"; if beds, you use "are".  "A total of sixteen boreholes were drilled." - - or "A total of sixteen boreholes was drilled." ????  Total is singular so the second is correct.
cheers

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