Architecture and Engineering
Architecture and Engineering
(OP)
Question: I am currently searching for employment as a structural engineer. It seems to me that most positions available are with firms either specializing in Architecture or Structural Engineering with Architects on the staff. Are we seeing a trend at which the two are merging? As an Engineer, I have seen it's tough to make money working with Architects. Is this the solution to the problem? If you can't beat'em, join'em?
Any comments?
Any comments?





RE: Architecture and Engineering
An engineer’s job is often to design and build around an architect’s design. That is unless….we all want to live and work in a world constructed entirely of steel, concrete, and pipe. Sounds a little boring don’t ya think?
There are jobs out there for structural engineers where you do not have to “deal” with architects (probably some kind of finite element analysis, etc…) , but if you want to do design for buildings...your going to meet and do business with lots of architects.
I personally love architects. They are generally more fun to talk to than engineers!
Sense
RE: Architecture and Engineering
With the influx of "New Products" Engineers need to keep the Architects informed as to what the new materials can perform like in the long and short term. A new term that confuses many is STRUCTURAL AIR, FERROFOAM SCIPS etc. How do you wrap your mind around terms like these? I started a Bog with many new companies with pages on the net. They really can open your eyes to whats coming down the pike especially for the up and coming engineer.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
In France, Architects are defined as "someone who is not macho enough to be an Engineer and not faggot enough to be a hairdresser".
Most Architects do not have a clue about engineering, I personnaly try to educate them on what it takes to bring a building together, that other trades such as MEP and maintenance folks interact with the project.
I can't tell you the number of architects that I had to fight to locate Mechanical equipment on the floor and not in the ceiling space. a nightmare of maintenance.
When they design something, it is their vision at all costs, the owner gets hosed.
The number of lousy buildings I've seen is way beyond any other trade's design.
Architects, especially the PM kind, that think they can judge MEP work. They are the back stabber kind, the fee hiding kind, the snicky kind, etc..
Unfortunately, they hold the dough. But all in all, I have come to (for lack of a better word, actually there is a better word but not suitable for printing) be highly suspicious of architects.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
When you say this, I am reminded of how difficult and unreliable architects were when it came to paying the subconsultant, my former employer, who engineered the HVAC, plumbing and power for their buildings. Indeed, architects are responsible for much of the work engineers perform, especially in the fight for the due reward of assisting them.
atlas06's comment was funny, but what I hear from well-educated friends in the world of structural engineering is that many architects know as much, if not more, about the performance of structures than structural engineers. Their comments would apply to high rise and museum quality buildings, of course.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
My experience with architects does not reflect well on their professionalism, when "cost effective" is the measure. I could make a building look reasonably well, provide allowance for MEP with due regard to maintenance, and provide the owner with a real value. The architects I have dealt with only care about appearances and will perscribe expensive measures to that end. The result, from my point of view, is a structure that is more expensive than it needs to be, that will cost a fortune to maintain, but will be something he will proudly announce to his friends when he drives by indicating the building projects he was a part of.
Regarding the comment to cover up out concrete and steel, I don't know of an engineer that would not wish to have walls and fascia over his structure. I don't know of an engineer that would want his structure to be uncomfortable to live in or expensive to maintain. I do know architects that won't compromise a penny on their vision. But it isn't their money, so why not.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Days of architects dominance are long gone. Today's buildings are much more technical and need serious engineering inputs from engineers. There more than adquate independent engineering firms that do only Engineering and they may work with Architects, they are not at mercy of the architects.
Just try to excell in whatever you do, there are enough buyers of quality. I have changed jobs, just because I did not want to deal with Architects as prime professionals.
There are good and bad kind of every trade, just find the good ones and try to become one.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
In general, in the USA you will do well working for an indepedent Engineering firm than for an A/E firm. If you are relatively new, don't worry too much about this now and just get some experience so you can start dictating your own terms when the time is right.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
However, the PM's for new building design were ALWAYS architects. And I think that is the way it should be. 20 years later when the building undergoes renovation the PM will likely be an engineer.
I'm still not sure I understand why so many engineers have a problem with architects. We need them as much as much as they need us. Its no different than the way different engineers rely on each other in order to have a functional facility.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
I do not have problem with all architects, only those who have no regard for other professionals.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Mr. architect PM went to the client and presented the opposite, saying that we recommend the fan coil units with air-cooled chiller, because he could not come up with 2 mechanical rooms to house the AHU's, too much work for him.
Mr Architect then came back to the engineers and said that the client wants the FCU's.
He is the only point of contact, so no one can argue you with him.
Architects are Criminals.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
I agree with Senselessticker
“Without architects (I like to call them “Technical Artists”), many engineers would not have jobs.”
When both collaborates we have things like this
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Try Calder, a Mechanical engineer. And since you are a Civil Engineer, try www.viaducdemillau.com and you wil see what engineers can do. By the way, in Europe, they call bridges "ouvrages d'art" (works of art).
0707
try this instead, a spanish structural engineer/architect.
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What you show there is nothing but a windowless structure. Always thought that your famous architect ought to include some daylight. Then again, designing with windows is a little difficult and not good for critics.
5-years olds with play dough can come up with windowless structures in my opinion, your architect needs to try some real buildings. He is only famous for museums that do not need windows (Bilbao and LA).
All over the world, architects must be top of the class to get to architectural school, in the US, only those that cannot make it into engineering schools go for architecture.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
However I feel its the attitude of "everyone else is stupid" that inhibits the engineering profession as a whole from being worth more $$$. I suggest some folks drop the chip off the shoulder... Such an attitude reminds me of the electrician who carries a grudge against electrical engineers because he thinks he "knows" more than the engineer. The truth is...it is an entirely different profession, but he fails to realize it. I'm seeing some of the same attitude towards architects. And its certainly the reason why there are so many Architect PM's.
Please stop giving engineers a bad name. It's costing me $$$ because of social perception.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Life is good people. Calm down
RE: Architecture and Engineering
Nah, that's architectural engineering. (Actually I'm surrounded by people with AE degrees who would kill me for saying that.)
I don't know any architects who tried and failed at engineering. I do know several civil/structural engineers who are thwarted architects.
But...I went to a university that had one of the top-ranked architecture programs in the U.S. Very tough five-ear program, but it was all about aesthetic design. All that "other" stuff (like how to make sure all the real-life stuff that makes the building function will fit in, and how to make the building stand up) is mostly handled through on-the-job training. I just went and looked at their curriculum, and they have a whopping four structural courses required.
I figured with that, the architect comes up with the artistic vision and the engineer figures out what goes inside to make the thing stand up. I was shocked to find out that there are projects on which the engineer is optional.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
So God created the architect, and he instructed the builder to build great structures of the most aesthetically pleasing form. But verily I say unto thee the structures did still collapse.
So God created the Civil/Structural Engineer and low by means of calculation and analysis the Engineer did make the designs of the Architect stand firm on the fundament and did ensure that the builder built to the design. But the structures were less beautiful than those of the Architect alone, and more costly than those of the builder alone and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth
And sorely did the Civil/Structural Engineer greave and plead with the Lord saying “Oh Lord that I was more intelligent and could be a ______ (fill in blank with your specialty) Engineer. I wouldst give unto thee my slide rule, AutoCAD and soil science equations”. But the ears of the Lord were death to them and he sent out environmental Engineers among the multitude…
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
We've beaten this thread to death with not much gain, and we ought let it to rest.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
There is also a reason architects are paid "less" now-a-days than engineers (in the USA).
No one said architects are stupid. I cannot believe some engineers think that they "need" architects to survive. Every professional should be able to survive on one's own, architects included. There is a place for everyone.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
i do think that engineers are some of the most pretentious, arrogant, sensitive, insecure individuals out there. i've never seen a group of people who get so worked into a tizzy and try to insult each other's intelligence.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
EXPO98
By Álvaro Siza Vieira
Luis
RE: Architecture and Engineering
This world needs both architects and engineers, and Lord help the person who wants to be both.
After my junior year in architecture, I was frustrated by the lack of "reality" and started taking CE classes in structures, which I loved.
But after finishing my architecture degree, and taking just civil classes, I was frustrated by the lack of "art" in engineering. Structural steel can be really ugly without something covering it!
Is it so difficult in today's world to turn something functional, like a building, into something nice to look at? I look at the Chrysler Building in New York City and I think , if they could do that in the 30's, why shouldn't we have that today? And here I sit at work, solving problems, managing projects and averting crises and not designing a darn thing.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
We have the technology today. The problem is money.
RE: Architecture and Engineering
RE: Architecture and Engineering
There's no shortage of people capable of designing and building structures like that- there's just a shortage of taxpayers willing to foot the bill for something as mundane as a "utility"!