Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
(OP)
Hello All,
I am a relatively new licensed civil engineer in NYS. On a personal note, I am buying land and am going to have a house built. I, shamefully, gave the GC I was planning on using a $3,000 deposit to prepare elevations and plan views of the house. He indicated that he used a retired engineer to review/sign/seal his plans and that I could do it if I felt comfortable. He also suggested that I become his new "reviewer/sealer" because his retired engineer was retiring from retirement. Now, I have been looking into the professional service laws in New York for other reasons as well (note my side engineering thread from November); and I have not heard from the builder in 3-months (he is completely ignoring me). So, based on my review of the laws, I have come to some conclusions that I must resolve for a) personal ethics as an engineer; b) Making the correct decision about personally performing design services on the side; and c) I want my money back. Let me know if you agree with my rationale:
1) As far as I can tell, the builder is committing a felony by rendering professional design services directly to the public without being a licensed engineer or architect?
2) Likewise, the engineer who is currently sealing the drawings is not performing services legally because in NYS (and I imagine in many others) engineering services must be performed directly from the engineer, to the client. No 3rd parties (i.e., the builder) allowed.
3) For me to perform engineering on the side (my employer is OK with it), I would have to work directly for the client who required the service. Note that for me, this issue has to do with my previous thread on drainage calcs for my friends dad (licensed surveyor); not for this builder.
4) If what they are doing is illegal, do I turn them in or turn my back?
I look forward to your opinions.
Happy New Year.
I am a relatively new licensed civil engineer in NYS. On a personal note, I am buying land and am going to have a house built. I, shamefully, gave the GC I was planning on using a $3,000 deposit to prepare elevations and plan views of the house. He indicated that he used a retired engineer to review/sign/seal his plans and that I could do it if I felt comfortable. He also suggested that I become his new "reviewer/sealer" because his retired engineer was retiring from retirement. Now, I have been looking into the professional service laws in New York for other reasons as well (note my side engineering thread from November); and I have not heard from the builder in 3-months (he is completely ignoring me). So, based on my review of the laws, I have come to some conclusions that I must resolve for a) personal ethics as an engineer; b) Making the correct decision about personally performing design services on the side; and c) I want my money back. Let me know if you agree with my rationale:
1) As far as I can tell, the builder is committing a felony by rendering professional design services directly to the public without being a licensed engineer or architect?
2) Likewise, the engineer who is currently sealing the drawings is not performing services legally because in NYS (and I imagine in many others) engineering services must be performed directly from the engineer, to the client. No 3rd parties (i.e., the builder) allowed.
3) For me to perform engineering on the side (my employer is OK with it), I would have to work directly for the client who required the service. Note that for me, this issue has to do with my previous thread on drainage calcs for my friends dad (licensed surveyor); not for this builder.
4) If what they are doing is illegal, do I turn them in or turn my back?
I look forward to your opinions.
Happy New Year.





RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
The whole thing sounds somewhat questionable on ethical grounds- a lot like plan stamping.
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
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RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
Just did up a report for an owner for a renovation. The owner provided a $60,000 deposit for a $130,000 reno... no drawings, no contract, in fact, no documentation... yup ... hiccups!
Dik
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
I believe that in NY a design-build business entity must have an engineer as the prime "contractor". The GC would have to be the sub of the engineer instead of the other way around, as it appears to be in your case.
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
Here in Washington state there are countless numbers of contractors who provide the design service, and the engineer is not an employee of their company but a subconsultant to them. We consult many of these contractors. Find out how your local jurisdiction views the IRC and allows it's use in the area. This is the document that allows one and 2 family residences to be designed by anyone.
I don't know about the 3rd party stuff. Again look at design/build and value engineering scenarios. The engineer usually works for the contractor not the owner in all of those cases. It looks to me like you are getting bad service, and that is probably where your issue lies.
RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor
They are offering "design" service, not "engineering" service. Design is not the same as engineering. My interior designer designs my room layout, lighting, colour etc. I then take that to my architect as input into the structural requirement of the house. Design, as far as I understand, is not regulated the same as engineering.
Maybe this is the confusion?
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RE: Design Services Performed by a General Contractor