Invoice tips??
Invoice tips??
(OP)
Hi there,
I've recently branched off to do some 3D Cad work, mainly doing advanced models for companies and I have a few questions.
1) What strategies one can use if a model proves to be more advanced than first estimated.
2) Do contractors break down there invoice on things like features per part or merely time spent?
Basically I'm new to the contract work game and I want to be able to invoice confidently knowing that my butt is covered if the company I'm working for tries to slide in 10 more hours of work.
Cheers.
I've recently branched off to do some 3D Cad work, mainly doing advanced models for companies and I have a few questions.
1) What strategies one can use if a model proves to be more advanced than first estimated.
2) Do contractors break down there invoice on things like features per part or merely time spent?
Basically I'm new to the contract work game and I want to be able to invoice confidently knowing that my butt is covered if the company I'm working for tries to slide in 10 more hours of work.
Cheers.





RE: Invoice tips??
Regardless, I don't think you could justify billing on a "per feature" basis. How would you determine the number of features? For instance, if a part had 6 holes in it, would you charge for 6 holes? It may be possible to produce all 6 holes in one step, or it may require multiple steps to produce them. Sometimes it would make sense to break it out into 2 or more steps, even though it could be done in one step. My point is that the "number of features" could be a very subjective thing, open to disagreement.
RE: Invoice tips??
When you're new to the industry, it is probably helpful from a customer relations standpoint not to invoice more than you actually estimated, but you can show that you spent extra time and then credit them for the time above your original estimate. This is beneficial because it gives you a record of what it actually took you, it lets them know that you stand behind your estimates, and it lets them feel like they just got something for nothing. Then, you turn around and ask the government if this is a business loss (my accountant worries about that, so I have no idea).
For the second statement...different ballgame. You have to stand your ground and tell them that the changes will require an additional estimate. They've come to you because they can't do this in-house, so you are worth it. If you don't charge them for making changes, they may take advantage of you.
I live by: When it's my mistake, I fix it; when its their mistake, I will fix it for just compensation.
I wouldn't say this had made me successful, but I get along with my clients and they keep coming back. Ultimately, that's what you are looking for...
Garland
Garland E. Borowski, PE
Borowski Engineering & Analytical Services, Inc.
Lower Alabama SolidWorks Users Group
RE: Invoice tips??
A simple clause in the contract *up front* will save you a lot of headaches later on.
RE: Invoice tips??
RE: Invoice tips??
As for of estimating complexity, I would use the number of dimensions on the print. Assuming, of course, that the print is fully dimensioned.
-b
RE: Invoice tips??
Quoting is about the hardest part of the job IMO, if you over quote you lose the job, if you under quote you do not make enough money. Often you have to quote from some pdf that is barely readable and they want it now.
In my experience you do get more of a feel for it after a while, but you still end up taking more hits than you ever walk away feeling we made a killing on that. That is before you get into “extras” and modifications.
You make or lose far more money quoting than you ever do for slick modelling or design, but I guess it is just part of the job. If you want a REAL shock wait until you see the payment terms of some companies.
RE: Invoice tips??
One more thing. What kind of hourly rates are Mechanical Designers charging per hour for a typical CAD to 3D conversion?? Assuming that all the work is done off site???
I don't think I'll suggest doing assemblies in house I'll let them figure that out on their own.
But as it stands it seems to be working out billing by the hour and giving breakdowns on the time per part. A clause covering any over-runs would be nice as well.
I'll just have to try not to say that I can model everything in 15 minutes in case you get some surprises.
Cheers
RE: Invoice tips??
RE: Invoice tips??
That is a very big question, basically it is what the customer will pay. As GBor says that can be industry or location specific but in my experience depends more on what type of company you are dealing with. Smaller companies tend to stay local, so you are only trying to match or better what is local, larger ones will go further a field. I seriously doubt you will compete with the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
Another major factor is how busy companies are, many will drop prices to remain busy during a slack period. Do you want to work for say 60% of what you would like to charge to keep busy? If you take it you lose the chance to take on work at what you hope to charge, if you don’t you may be doing nothing for weeks on end wishing you had of taken it.
Converting 2D to 3D is not the best paying work as you are really adding nothing, as long as all parties can read drawings you will get the same result whoever does it. For this reason usually the cheapest is best for the customer and it makes little difference if they are 2 miles away or the other side of the world.
In my experience trying to build up an honest relationship with your customers is the best way forward, be prepared to talk and take a slice of their problems, under quoting for example, but hope that they are honest with you and appreciate that when the next project comes along.
Again in my experience it is a very tough market at the minute and you will not make huge money, but you can make a good living. Good luck, I hope some of this helps.
RE: Invoice tips??
He has gone back and promised to get more work. Can you get it cheaper?
RE: Invoice tips??
I'm in Vancouver at the moment, and things are booming here. I'm basically trying to decide if I'm ready to take the plunge into contract or take a full time offer.
Arunmrao do you mean 10 USD per part? I doubt you could get it for cheaper than that unless the parts are very simple castings.
RE: Invoice tips??
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Invoice tips??
Dik
RE: Invoice tips??
The parts are no where simple . They came in as complex as they could be. Also I helped add a few casting related details into the drawings.
Over here there is a whole eager army of people to grab such an opportunity. They constitute college lecturers who teach and the students as well. My son who is studying in 2nd year Mechanical engineering assisted in mobilising this team.
RE: Invoice tips??
You should state the approximate number of hours, i.e. price the project for the client. This is based on experience, you may take a few lumps in the early days of your contracting position, but believe me, you'll make up for it in the long run.
Love to see the boys making a break for independence and show their business savy. Good for you!
Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada