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titles

titles

(OP)
Those of you that make hiring decisions what sorts of titles impress you on resumes for engineers?

The way the workplace is headed engineers are doing so many varied functions it is hard to capture their responsibilities with titles. Should it always contain the disciple like Mechanical or Electrical? Do ranks like senior or staff mean anything?

RE: titles

Titles mean absolutely NOTHING to me when viewing a resume.  That may be overstating their value a bit.

RE: titles

For me I could really care less what the title says.  I look at their education (is it in the right field) and experience (is it relevant to us).  Titles are best used for stroking ego's.  Anybody can make up a title.  I have four myself that I use on a regular basis, depending on the situation.

RE: titles

I had a co-worker that had a half dozen different business cards printed up--Vice President of this, Director of that, etc.  That made me realize that you can call yourself anything you want.  

I'm with dgowans, zero is overstating their value.

David

RE: titles

I had a consulting engineering come in with his cards and they listed his title as "Dragonslayer".  He was a PE and he had the education and skills I we need, but his title put him on the top, he worked out well.

Even though he was a contractor, the point is skills, education and experience.

RE: titles

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to titles. I look at a person's relevant experience and education. Regardless of the title it becomes pretty obvious in the details of the resume or for that in the interview where the persons experience really lies.

For Example: Someone with a Title like Engineering Manager that highlights current experience like making drawing changes and doing detail design work is clearly not what I would envision as a person that suites the Engineering Manager title.

If you're asking the questions relative to how to make your resume look "good" then simply put in all your experience, responsibilities, and tasks and/or have multiple resumes highlighting different strengths depending on the position for which you are applying.

RE: titles

Quote (aggman):

For me I could really care less what the title says.
So, why don't you care less if you really could?  Or, did you mean that you really couldn't care less?

RE: titles

(OP)
let me rephrase the question. What keywords do you use when searching for engineers?

RE: titles

Hehhe davidbeach.. maybe you should link the pet peeves link smile

RE: titles

will depend on the industry but heres a few:
"implemented XYZ, reduced cost by blah blah"
"designed blah"
"expert user of FEA program blah"

I want to hear about specifically what you did. Not the team did while you were on vacation. And I don't really care to see a bunch of Dilbert type jibber jabber like "team player able to leverage core competencies"

Thats just crap that people put down because they think it looks good. Everyone thinks they are team players even if they are a-holes.

RE: titles

Do people put their titles on their resumes?  I've never even noticed winky smile

TTFN



RE: titles

Does it make any difference ?  I've gone back and forth from Regional Manager to Senior Engineer to Engineering Manager to Assistant Manager, etc., depending on the organisation where I worked with.

Makes absolutely no difference.

HVAC68

RE: titles

Quote (HDS):

What keywords do you use when searching for engineers?

Well, it would depend on the position you are trying to fill?

If I was looking for a petroleum engineer, some keywords may be:
- engineer
- petroleum
- names of my competitors
- names of major projects
- maybe graduation date (depending on level of experience needed)

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: titles

I could care less, but I care so little I can't be bothered to care any less.

RE: titles

How about, "I couldn't care more."

Is that that the same as "I could care less"?

RE: titles

Or you could say "I don't care at all!" :~)

Experience is key no matter what the title is. However, in the reference to the "Dragonslayer" title above...it was important but only because it was different and got attentionn. However...if you were to use "P*rnstar" on a business card or resume...it will most likely find the waste basket. So if you must have a title...choose wisely!

RE: titles

edsongebo,
From my college youth, "Dragonslayer" (give it a google with the keyword "sex" and see what you get) was a title of dubious distinction and if I read it on a business card today I would most likely give it the credence of "P*rnstar".

Frank "Grimey" Grimes

RE: titles

I heard of an engineering firm that has a Senior VP for Synergy.

Let's face it titles are mostly BS.

RE: titles

Frank- there's no telling what the person meant by that, but it could a generational thing- that's not what dragonslayer conveys to me, at least.

RE: titles

I don't even rate a title in my household let alone my company.  I think the Mrs. is about to bestow the prestigious title of Executive VP of Domestic Waste Handling as soon as I remember to take out the trash for once. wink

Frank "Grimey" Grimes

RE: titles

Dear Grimey...if I search the word 'SEX' thru google or yahoo I would find just about anything from 'Sex in the City' to 'Types of Positions'...LOL!!! but I understand your point. Your resume or business card is what we all want to look like on paper. Some fudge to make themselves look better. It still boils down to the interview. You have to walk the walk if you say you can. I have met many that thought it didn't matter what was on the resume...eventually they were dragged to the carpet by the boss. Forgive me for I've gotten of subject a bit here...

Ed-

RE: titles

I like to think (but then I'm often wrong) that hte title of "engineer" denotes a certain level of competance above that expected from the general population.  However, I note that one of my second-tier vendors has what they optimistically term "sales engineers".

I happened to run into one of these on a recent project.  I knew him from his previous employement as a technician where he was, to use precise psychological terminalogy, a "Doofus".  With his change in employers, a magic wand was waved, and --ting!--, he was a "sales engineer".

In subsequent conversations wherein he tried to obfuscate, flim-flam, snowball and cover up shoddy work by his company, I had a rather irate conversation wherin I opined that if he was an "engineer, then I was the Prince-Consort to the Czarina of all the Russias.

old field guy

RE: titles

TO ALL:

I started a new thread...I'm curiuos to hear your responses...I know others will be too.

What's important on a resume´...

thread731-173724

RE: titles

This thread reminded me of an old aquaintance from college. He had business cards printed that said:

ATTORNEY AT LOVE

and he'd hand them out to girls he met on campus.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: titles

By the way, one company I worked for has banned anyone from using the title "Engineer" unless they have passed the PE exam.  In some states it is against the law to call yourself an "Engineer" unless you possess the credentials.

RE: titles

That's interesting to know about states with a specific law. Correct if I am wrong but if someone attends and graduates from a 4 year college with a B.A. in M.E., they should at the least be able to use the title of an engineer. Why would a company NOT want to advertise that they have degreed engineers? Is a P.E. one more step up the ladder or is it a parallel achievement? If it is an achievement what does it bring…money? credibility? fame? Then please explain why ALL engineer’s do not have one?

Edson-

RE: titles

"Correct if I am wrong but if someone attends and graduates from a 4 year college with a B.A. in M.E., they should at the least be able to use the title of an engineer." No, otherwise someone who has completed their medicine degree should be able to call themselves a doctor.


"Why would a company NOT want to advertise that they have degreed engineers?" Maybe because not all of their engineers have degrees?

"Is a P.E. one more step up the ladder or is it a parallel achievement?" In some fields it is an achievement. In some industries or jurisdictions it is irrelevant, or perhaps, of the same level of achievement as being able to cook a good curry, nice to have, but not a deal breaker. Others will disagree.

"Then please explain why ALL engineer’s do not have one?" In my case, because I can cook a good curry. Having a PE (or its equivalent) would have made no difference, so far as I can tell, to my career. Neither has cooking curry.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: titles

I think in MOST (if not merely "many") states it's illegal to use the title "Engineer" for anyone who is not a licensed professional engineer (which generally also requires having an accredited engineering bachelor's degree).  Enforcement varies, but the laws are there.

The biggest reasons for engineers not to bother with licensure is the "industrial exemption", which I'll leave for someone else to describe since I'm in a field in which pretty much all of us get licensed.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: titles

Well, to be specific, the company I worked for is primarily a civil engineering consulting company HQ'd in Florida.  The Board of that company revised the company policy a year or so ago in response to a recently signed state law.  Therefore, only licensed engineers working for that company are allowed to refer to themselves as an "Engineer" on their business cards.  That applied only to the employees working in Florida, but, as I recall, within a year or so, it was scheduled to be be applied country wide.

RE: titles

My current title is "Project Engineer"...translated I think it means: "One who gets yelled at often and is good at tap dancing in meetings in front of clients".  

However, I DO NOT consider myself an "Engineer", as I am not licensed....yet...



RE: titles

A professional engineer is similar to a lawyer that has been called to the bar.

A law student who graduates, usually then articles for a couple of years. Then, they take the bar exam (of whatever state they are in/want to be in). If they pass, then they are considered full fledged lawyers.

An engineering student who graduates, ususally then works (or in the old days, apprentice) for a couple of years. Then, they take the state PE exam (of whatever state they are in/want to be in). If they pass, then they are considered full fledged engineers.

The difference is that the bar association does not let people who are not members of the bar practice.

Somehow, engineering associations let people who are not members practice.

Does this make a good analogy?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: titles

That is a good analogy Ashereng. I think though that you could take it a step further to explain how engineering associations let people who are not members practice. There are many not-quite-lawyers who practice as paralegals. In the same way, an non-PE almost always has to have his work signed by a PE. Many times, the paralegal and the EIT do a majority of the legwork which is then reviewed, stamped, or presented by the professional.

I have found the title "engineer" to be extremely subjective. I have seen everyone from rodmen with 3rd grade educations to PhD/PE's being called engineers. This law about the title of engineer sounds a little bit strange. I would like to know more about it. If this is true, what are we calling locomotive operators these days?

RE: titles

The rules on PE don't really apply everywhere.

For instance typically in aerospace/defense PE isn't usually required and isn't of as much significance.  Of course when you get layed off from a job in an industry that doesn't require PE and start looking somewhere you need one you'll wish you had it.

I was starting to pursue equivalent of PE in UK before I came to US.  Now in California I find it's going to be time consuming and expensive to obtain it and in the industry I find myself in not required so, although I may regret it later I'm not actively pursuing it at this time.

RE: titles

SandCounter,

There are other people who are able to use the title "engineer", in addition to PE/P. Eng:
- locamotive engineers (guy who drives the trains)
- military engineers (at least Canada and US, as long as they are in the military/retired)
- steam/boiler engineers (if they hold a Class 1-4 "steam engineer" ticket)

I may be missing some, but these are some examples.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: titles

I would like to take an opposing view to most on this issue of titles. I have found when reviewing resumes (and also submitting my own resumes) that attention is paid to titles in so far as it tells how one has progressed through a company.

For example, if your resume says that you were a "Project Engineer" for company XYZ in 1995 and you are still a "Project Engineer" for coampany XYZ in 2007, it raises the question of why there has (apparently) been no progression in one's career. Especially if responsibilities have not changed as well. It is then up to the potential candidate to explain and it just throws another curveball in the process.

Personally, I like to ask my boss for periodic reviews on my performance and ask for expanded responsibilities where deserved. I also feel that a corresponding change in title is quite appropriate under these circumstances.

My 2 Cents.

JS.  

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