Designing a Church
Designing a Church
(OP)
Hi Guys,
I am designing a 25,000 sq. ft. church in California (Lancaster, Los Angeles), the roof is going to be wood truss so I have no problem with that (as far as the design …).
please follow the link below which will lead you to a PDF file including some floor plans, elevations and sections of this project.
ht tp://group s-beta.goo gle.com:80 /group/dow nload_my_f iles?hl=en
(The file name is the-church. PDF, you can do right click and save it to your computer.)
Here are the most preliminary questions that came to my attention:
1- At the main building there is no walls and columns on the middle, will it be okay if I consider just the exterior walls to transfer the shear loads?(what else I can do?)
2- Do I need to use concrete block wall or wood stud wall would be fine?
3- How should I design the glass frame under the roof because they suppose to transfer both shear and vertical loads?
4- What do I need to know about designing the tower?
Because it is my first time doing such a project your comments and inputs are greatly appreciated regarding the most important things I should concern about. Thanks,
Regards,
User2k6
I am designing a 25,000 sq. ft. church in California (Lancaster, Los Angeles), the roof is going to be wood truss so I have no problem with that (as far as the design …).
please follow the link below which will lead you to a PDF file including some floor plans, elevations and sections of this project.
ht
(The file name is the-church. PDF, you can do right click and save it to your computer.)
Here are the most preliminary questions that came to my attention:
1- At the main building there is no walls and columns on the middle, will it be okay if I consider just the exterior walls to transfer the shear loads?(what else I can do?)
2- Do I need to use concrete block wall or wood stud wall would be fine?
3- How should I design the glass frame under the roof because they suppose to transfer both shear and vertical loads?
4- What do I need to know about designing the tower?
Because it is my first time doing such a project your comments and inputs are greatly appreciated regarding the most important things I should concern about. Thanks,
Regards,
User2k6






RE: Designing a Church
RE: Designing a Church
Regarding your questions, I'm speaking from an engineering focus and not requirements of your jurisdiction.
The roof truss system can be designed as a diaphragm transferring loads seismic, dead and live to the side walls.
The side walls can be constructed using wood stud and sheathing, etc. or as masonry (if permitted). If masonry is used a portion of the wall can have a diaphragm with the balance of the masonry being isolated so that it doesn't form part of the main resisting seismic structure.
As far as the tower is concerned, this can be tied into the roof and any intermediate floors and can be constructed as a wood/masonry diaphragm, putting loads into the roof and intermediate floors. You may want to talk the owner out of too large or imposing tower... they tend to be located near exits and given a seismic event, this could trap/crush parishoners.
Dik
RE: Designing a Church
EOM
Regards,
Lutfi
RE: Designing a Church
RE: Designing a Church
RE: Designing a Church
I've seen several disciplinary cases through the years involving church design. Churches often have limited finances and willing volunteers, and that can lead to problems in engineering and architecture.
RE: Designing a Church
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your comments (specially Dik), I am PE but as I mentioned before I haven't done this kind of projects,... so please lets talk about engineering issues and comments.
Thanks again.
U2k6
RE: Designing a Church
I appreciate that you are a PE (you say so, good enough) and I suspect that you're helping out some friends. As a PE would you sign for something unless you know it's right ? As a PE, I think you've a greater burden of responsibility that someone who isn't.
anyways, good luck
RE: Designing a Church
Anyway, it looks like the glass frame isnt supporting any roof load (unless you have ridge/valley beam land on the header, i hope not). So all you have is a little weight from the lookout. Just have to look at lateral pressure from wind I think.
RE: Designing a Church
The solution is in the "details". Hook up with an engineer who has done this type of structure before and get some ideas as to standard details that may be appropriate for structure of this type.
If I were doing this project, I would select a bearing+shear wall system using concrete blocks, steel interior columns and beams where needed and a plywood diaphragm. There may be other ways to disect a cat.
RE: Designing a Church
I was looking for some comments like what Dik or COEngineer have mentioned ... but I learned many other things as well which is good!.
Thanks anyway.
RE: Designing a Church
RE: Designing a Church
Institutional structure of this size, in my opinion, can be designed by a PE but check with the local building official as they may have more stringent requirements than the state laws.
RE: Designing a Church
The code will tell you your seismic requirements which may help you figure out your lateral loads and methods of transfer and the loads on the steeple (aka tower). Typically, ASCE-7 in most states.
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: Designing a Church
Dik
RE: Designing a Church
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: Designing a Church
DonPhillips... wrt California... just going through a mess of fairly technical seismic stuff... my own refresher... thanks
Dik
RE: Designing a Church
In reading through the rules, it looks like CA mainly regulates the use of the title of SE, as opposed to the practice. Then it looks like the requirement for SE on hospitals and schools come from two separate rules regulating hospital and school construction, and not from the state engineering rules themselves.
One thing we'd run into back then was that most of our customers in CA would specify a SE seal on drawings, even if state rules didn't require an SE.
RE: Designing a Church
Zoning is another issue. Most jurisdiction that have a zoning code limit height. A variance could be sought pretty easily for a church.
Of course, a floor greater then 75' above the level of egress qualifies it as a high rise building and all of the associated extra safety features. A steeple would not be habitable so would not kick in the high rise requirements.
I can see why a customer may want an SE depending on the project and it makes sense that buildings housing children, and hospitals needed during an emergency would have a state law requiring what some customers choose to do. I can see public buildings wanting to save a few bucks by shorting the dollars available for design if no law prevented them.
Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com
RE: Designing a Church
- One side seems to be all glass which makes your diaphragm work harder to distribute the forces to the available shear walls.
- The tower seems also to be glass and doesn't have much structure to rest upon. The architect will need to give you some room in his floor plan for the tower support structure. (The architect should know this!)
Be careful. There are many pitfalls in this type of project and often the (small) fee makes it tough to thoroughly investigate them all!
RE: Designing a Church
RE: Designing a Church