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Plurals with a "y"
4

Plurals with a "y"

Plurals with a "y"

(OP)
A coworker came to me with a question this morning and I know what my answer would be but I was unable to find any source online that can back up my answer.

The question is this:

If you could have single or plural trees you can say "tree(s)" but what if you want to refer to the single or plural nurseries? Since the single is nursery and the plural is nurseries.

Thanks for your suggestions.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

2
How to spell the plural of nouns ending in -y

When -y is preceded by a consonant, form the plural by changing the -y into -ies.


For example city, plural cities; cranberry, plural cranberries

When the -y is preceded by a vowel, the -y is not changed in the plural form -ys.

For example holiday, plural holidays; monkey, plural monkeys

A clean house is a sign of a broken computer.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

(OP)
mechgunner-

Thank you for the English lesson, however that was not my problem.

What I really was asking (and maybe I just was not clear) was which of the follow would be the correct usage in written communication:

nurser(y/ies)
nursery(-ies)
nurser(y)ies

I have seen it done all three ways as I tried to do a search online. Any further insight would be appreciated.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I don't recall ever seeing an example as you've listed.  All I remember seeing is when the simple addition of an 's' is all that is needed.  When you look at nursery(ies), it does look awkward.  I guess you could go with nursery/nurseries or say "one or more nurseries".

RE: Plurals with a "y"

plural of nursery will always be nurseries. No matter what Google search you perform. Mechgunner has explained very clearly without any ambiguity. Star to you mechgunner

RE: Plurals with a "y"

(OP)
Thank you to satchmo for actually taking the time to understanding my question.

I told her to just spell out "nursery or nurseries".

But I did get a good laugh out of arunmrao's comment that the plural of nursery will always be nurseries. I was NOT intending to respell the word. I was simply trying to refer to both the singular and plural forms of the word.

The document in question is asking an inspector where they tagged some trees. It is unknown whether it is just one nursery that they went to or more than one. As a result we wanted to know at which nursery or nurseries the trees were inspected.

Sometimes trying to find a shortcut makes things more difficult than just taking the long way.

Thanks for everyone's speedy reply.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

(OP)
errr... I meant to say "taking the time to understand my question"

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I suppose one main criteria for correct usage in written communication is that you get your point accross.  All of the variations you have given would more than likely be understood by an audience, so it's preference.  I don't think there is ONE right way on this one.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

KatiLynSki,
I would just say nursery(s) and forget about it.  Readers will understand.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Just using the plural would have been quite acceptable.

"At which nurseries were the trees inspected?"

If multiple nurseries had been visited, then a list would be supplied. If only one nursery was visited, the reply would probably be, "Just the ??? one"

cheers

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I would say that when you're in doubt, don't try to abbreviate.  It looks like that's what you did.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

KatiLynSki

Apologies, I was not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I was just trying to be helpful, you are right about taking the time to understand the question, reminds me of an old instructor who always put RTFQ at the end of answers.

Read The ******* Question

A clean house is a sign of a broken computer.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

To mechgunner's credit, the original post didn't ask the right FQ.  ATFQ?  

That said, I've seen "nursery/ies".  The slash means a choice of what's to the left or to the right of it, whereas parentheses ("nursery(ies)") would mean a choice of with or without what's in the parentheses (which would give the odd result of "nurseryies").

That still won't help you with all cases.  Completely irregular plurals would have to be done as whole words ("man/men") and if you're going to go there for those, you might as well go there for "nursery/nurseries" and avoid the above awkwardness.

That is, if you must abbreviate.  I'm with CBL in that in most cases the plural alone will suffice.  (Also, "or" will do in most cases of "and/or" but that's another nitpick for another time.)  And all those slashy abbreviations are both jargony and sometimes semantically/contractually ambiguous (not to mention that there's been no consistent convention for how to read them aloud), so in general it's really best to spell them out.  If you mean "one or more nurseries" and this really is going to be different than simply "nurseries", then use the full phrase.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Just to throw another wrench into the works...the plural of a proper name ending in "y" is constructed simply by adding "s".  So if one is talking about several girls named Mary, the plural is Marys.

The singular/plural of Mary would be

Mary(s)

since the format is usually the singular form, followed by the plural suffix in parentheses, sans hyphen.  It's easy to read the word as either singular or plural in this form by imagining the parentheses are not there.

But in the case of words ending in "y", there is not simply a suffix; the word is rewritten, since the "y" is truncated and then a suffix is added, which is a different situation.

If I were declaring the rules about such situations, I would suggest

nurser(y/ies)

But if you're really concerned about what's proper, then you should consult the Chicago Style Guide.

Don
Kansas City

RE: Plurals with a "y"

HgTX

Thanks, I like ATFQ?

arunmrao

Thanks for the star anyway, you read it like me.

KatiLynSki

RTFQ - ATFQ apart, for clarity and simplicity, stick with CBL

A clean house is a sign of a broken computer.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

the plural of nursery can be either nerserys or nerseries

RE: Plurals with a "y"

nErseries?  I think we should all quit while we're ahead.  You know how a word starts to look and sound stupid after you've seen and heard it many times in a row?  Anybody else getting that feeling?

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I don't believe I have seen "nurserys" as plural of nursery. Are you sure?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I'd probably just go with nurseries like CBL.

I've often seen the problem of people (including me) not really answering the OP.

In this case I thought the OP was perfectly clear, the poster wanted an option where the word may be plural or singular.

I wonder if some of it is the number of different versions of 'English' used by different posters, Canadian, UK, US, Australia... and then all the different English as a second language posters.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

In KatiLynSki’s second post he stated: -

"What I really was asking (and maybe I just was not clear) was which of the follow would be the correct usage in written communication:

nurser(y/ies)
nursery(-ies)
nurser(y)ies"

This was not stated in the first post, hence my confusion, still, to stick with the thread, go with CBL, nurseries it is.

A clean house is a sign of a broken computer.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I thought the question in the OP was clear.

Anyway, there is an old adage:

Quote (old adage):

When in doubt, spell it out.

My vote goes to "nursery or nurseries".

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I have seen both words written nurserys and nurseries maybe nurserys more related to greenhouses while nurseries more related to child care houses.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

I've yet to find a dictionary which lists nurserys as a legitimate word.

There are many mispellings to be found in books, media and the internet. Just because they can be found does not make them a correct alternative spelling.

Do a search for nurseries and you will see 14,800,000 hits and a definition offered.
Do a search for nurserys and you will see only 42,200 hits and a definition is not offered.

cheers

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Quote:

There are many mispellings to be found in books, media and the internet. Just because they can be found does not make them a correct alternative spelling.

You are missing one word: "yet".  English evolves.  It even forks.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

CorBlimeyLimey

You are Wright. My previous posting is my explanation for the error? Or discrepancy?

Luis

RE: Plurals with a "y"

This overly-general concept of English semantics is often used to justify poor grammar and misspellings, particularly in this modern Google world.  "If everyone else is misspelling 'supposably', then it's OK".  

In reality, the job of a lexicographer is indeed to see how words are being used, but he usually studies the writings of known, established authors who ostensibly know what they are doing.  The notion that we can simply build a dictionary based on how the general rabble on the Internet are using and spelling words is absurd and could only lead to chaos.

An excellent explanation of the English semantic process can be read in S. I Hayakawa's famous book "Language in Thought and Action".

Don
Kansas City

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Since when has spelling been defined as the greatest number of hits in Google ?? Is the majority always right ? In that case, go tell Galileo the world is flat.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Quote (yates):

In that case, go tell Galileo the world is flat.

Eh?

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Re Galileo...

Not really a good analogy.  You can prove that the World is not flat, but you cannot prove whether a word is acceptable in a given language.

As far as I know, new words are accepted into (English) English by committee (don't know who appoints the committee though!).  First usage is noted as part of the acceptance.  This is usually someone well known using it in public or on paper.  In future years it could be someone's blog or email!

RE: Plurals with a "y"

My incredulity regarding the Galileo quote is more to do with historical accuracy than whether it is a good analogy or not. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe Galileo said anything about the flatness or otherwise of the Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Galileo may have proved that the telescope was round?

However following a link on MikeyP link!!

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/

Interesting?

A clean house is a sign of a broken computer.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Going back to the OP, I would suggest nursery(s) would be understood by most people and could be used in all but the most formal forms of communications. If you're looking for something definitively and absolutely correct (as far as that is possible in language!) I'd spell it out in full to avoid any kind of ambiguity.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

yates ...

"Since when has spelling been defined as the greatest number of hits in Google ??"
It isn't ... but it is usually a good indication. However, English is a "living" language, and popular usage of a word will eventually coerce official dictionaries to include it.

"Is the majority always right ?"
No, but I believe the majority of people know how to spell and the better ones use a spelling checker if they are publishing official documents.

You seem to have overlooked my point that a definition was provided for one but not the other. The definition lends credence to the one being correct and the other not.

cheers

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Generally, the evolutionary quality of the English language applies to the meanings of words, not standardized spellings or grammatical conventions.  That's what semantics is all about.

The spellings of words have already been set and agreed upon.  If you want to know how to spell a word, you look it up in the dictionary.  There is a correct spelling and an incorrect spelling.  There is no excuse for misspelling a word, because it is already right there in the dictionary for you to see. If most of the people are spelling a word incorrectly, then they simply need to buy a dictionary.  To change or add a spelling to cater to those in error is absurd.

Don
Kansas City   

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Even spellings change over time ... Modern english is very different than say, medieval english.

Spellings also change over place. American spellings are often different the English spellings.

"To change or add a spelling to cater to those in error is absurd."
Agreed ... so when are you guys gonna change to the correct spellings? rofl

cheers

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Even in "modern" times, the spelling of a word can change.
Up until the early 1920's, woolen was spelled 'woollen'. (An obscure example, I know. I only know it because of a report I did back in 9th grade History...)

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

RE: Plurals with a "y"

The dictionary wasn't even invented until the Eighteenth Century, by which time the language was thoroughly modern.  Actually, the printing press itself effectively "froze" the language even before that.

The American dictionary not only added new American words, but largely corrected inconsistencies in the British version that were puzzling.  Noah Webster's dictionary came out just a few decades after Samuel Johnson's.  It had over 70,000 entries and was felt by many to have surpassed Johnson's British version not only in scope but in authority.  Reasoning that many spelling conventions were artificial and needlessly confusing, he altered many words: musick  to music, centre to center, and plough to plow, for example.  Thus was born the first American dictionary and, like any other standard, once it is set there is no practical reason to alter the spellings any more.  Just spell it like the dictionary like everyone else.

Don
Kansas City  

RE: Plurals with a "y"

"Just spell it like the dictionary like everyone else."
That's one of the problems ... "everyone else" has their own dictionary?

BTW, I do use a dictionary ... a British one.

I do have to agree with you though, some/many of the US spellings do make more sense.

cheers

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Quote:

The American dictionary not only added new American words, but largely corrected inconsistencies in the British version that were puzzling.

Should have created a new name too them - Murcun.

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Apropos this topic, a book recommendation: "The Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson.

Bryson is an American who married a Brit and lived in Merrie Olde most of his adult life. He highlights the often humorous attempts at Enlgish by non-native speakers, as well as the differences between US and British English. This book is just as funny as his others.

From Amazon.com:
"Who would have thought that a book about English would be so entertaining? Certainly not this grammar-allergic reviewer, but The Mother Tongue pulls it off admirably. Bill Bryson--a zealot--is the right man for the job. Who else could rhapsodize about "the colorless murmur of the schwa" with a straight face? It is his unflagging enthusiasm, seeping from between every sentence, that carries the book.

Bryson displays an encyclopedic knowledge of his topic, and this inevitably encourages a light tone; the more you know about a subject, the more absurd it becomes. No jokes are necessary, the facts do well enough by themselves, and Bryson supplies tens per page. As well as tossing off gems of fractured English (from a Japanese eraser: "This product will self-destruct in Mother Earth."), Bryson frequently takes time to compare the idiosyncratic tongue with other languages. Not only does this give a laugh (one word: Welsh), and always shed considerable light, it also makes the reader feel fortunate to speak English."

RE: Plurals with a "y"

Quote (mintjulep):

I thought the question in the OP was clear.
Ditto.

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