Using my personal vehicle for work...
Using my personal vehicle for work...
(OP)
I am working for a small consulting firm (civil). I really love working here, however one downside is that they do not have company vehicles.
I have no problem using my personal vehicle for transportation and keeping track of mileage for the measly 45 cents per mile etc.
The only REAL problem is that we are expected to use our personal vehicle for construction work with no additional compensation. This is the only company that I personally know about that works in this manner.
I'd say that the mileage I put on my vehicle nowhere near compensates me for the use. I am not talking about home to office etc, I am talking about office to jobsite, on the site and back. Strictly business use. I am typically out in construction full-time from April to November with heavy usage mid-May to mid-September. The work I do involves large developments and heavy-highway construction, so there is a lot of off-roading. If I don't drive my vehicle off-road, then the walk would be ridiculously long (a waste of productive time). I couldn't justify it.
I have actually brought this up to my supervisors, but they kinda shrug their shoulders and say that this is how it has always been. They say that they see no advantage for them to get any vehicles or compensate for usage above the government mileage rate. The VP's all have company leased vehicles, which is considered a perk because they really only use them for home to office driving. Only one out of the three actually uses it for billable projects and that is because he has one main client and spends a lot of time at their location. The others use for transportation to/from meetings with clients, not necessarily directly billable, but "getting/retaining" projects.
Anybody else have experience with this, or perhaps some productive way of dealing with it? I am looking at options I could offer up to management vs just complaining about it. Yes, I have received advice to just move to another company etc, but I really think the company would look into ideas if presented.
I have no problem using my personal vehicle for transportation and keeping track of mileage for the measly 45 cents per mile etc.
The only REAL problem is that we are expected to use our personal vehicle for construction work with no additional compensation. This is the only company that I personally know about that works in this manner.
I'd say that the mileage I put on my vehicle nowhere near compensates me for the use. I am not talking about home to office etc, I am talking about office to jobsite, on the site and back. Strictly business use. I am typically out in construction full-time from April to November with heavy usage mid-May to mid-September. The work I do involves large developments and heavy-highway construction, so there is a lot of off-roading. If I don't drive my vehicle off-road, then the walk would be ridiculously long (a waste of productive time). I couldn't justify it.
I have actually brought this up to my supervisors, but they kinda shrug their shoulders and say that this is how it has always been. They say that they see no advantage for them to get any vehicles or compensate for usage above the government mileage rate. The VP's all have company leased vehicles, which is considered a perk because they really only use them for home to office driving. Only one out of the three actually uses it for billable projects and that is because he has one main client and spends a lot of time at their location. The others use for transportation to/from meetings with clients, not necessarily directly billable, but "getting/retaining" projects.
Anybody else have experience with this, or perhaps some productive way of dealing with it? I am looking at options I could offer up to management vs just complaining about it. Yes, I have received advice to just move to another company etc, but I really think the company would look into ideas if presented.





RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If I were in your situation, I would buy a rusted out piece of junk, beat up pickup that costs about $200. Then you can beat on it all you want. When it dies, just leave it.
See how your company likes being represented with something like that.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
The company needs to give you a lease truck to use.
Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Even there all you can do is anticipate cost of such vehiccle use, and make sure you get it in your base salary/overall compensation. Meaning, if you think such use in going to cost you $10K every year, you take that into account when accepting an offer.
If you are not able to negotiate, you take your lumps and say to yourself that you have a lesser paying job.
It is no different than accepting a job that invovlves longer commute. You use up your vehicle much faster than folks with shorter commute to work. You have to do your own math.
Speaking off not taking it off road, and walking, you decide what is more important to you. I would generally will not ruin my vehicle, just because the client is going to get charged for few more hours. Why should you pay? let them pay as they are the ones benefiting from use of your vehicle.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
For example, 100 mile day:
Drive your own for mileage rate: $0.45 x 100 = $45
Rent: $35 + 15% taxes and fees + 5 gallons @ $2/gallon = $50.25
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
The jobsites are typically fairly local. Meaning a roundtrip office-site-office is 20 miles or less. This is why I say the mileage alone wouldn't compensate for the usage.
I wind up using my vehicle as a "field office" in a sense. I keep the project files/information with me, and I tend to be on more than one project throughout the week, so multiple plan sets/job boxes etc, at one time.
I also carry misc equipment, but no real "hauling", more like a level/legs/rod for elevation shots, bundle of lathe, measuring wheel, manhole (lid) pick. I keep a rubbermaid box in the trunk with small various things like marking (spray) paint, measure tapes, hammer, ribbon.
A lot of this stuff isn't really "mobile" meaning I leave it in the car unless I need it, which is often, although depends on the project and what "hat" I am wearing that day.
I do have a sinking feeling that I will need to just purchase an old truck to beat up separate from my car. I just never thought that it would be a job requirement for me to supply my company a vehicle. Was hoping there would be some other options available.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If I had an old beater, I wouldn't worry *too* much, but I don't. I drive long distances on most weekends to see my kids, so I have a new-ish reliable sedan. Comfort and gas mileage and all that.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If your worried about the wear and tear on your primary vehicle, then I think you will find owning a beater a liberating experience. Just be sure to get something that looks pretty crappy from a distance. You'll find that people give you wide berth on the highway. You can also park in the worst areas of town and the tightest parking spaces with no fear.
-b
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If you get two or more field personnel together, this is exactly where the conversation heads. Nobody ever does it though. I prefer construction/outdoor and if I insist I don't have a vehicle to get me there, am afraid will re-assign me to design/office full-time.
Again, I really enjoy this company and know that everybody can't be made happy all of the time... but was hoping there would be some possible options I could present to management.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
There were a lot of times that I had to use my car.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
When I travel on business, I rent a vehicle. If I am going to a client's office, I rent a car - Grand Am. If I am going to a job site, with off-road, I rent a F-150. If I am carrying something, a F-350 or F-250HD.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
1. They look at mileage for personal vs work
2. There are a lot of limitations on itemizing
What "real" expenses do I claim?
I keep records of my mileage for work already, no big deal. But every gas purchase I could only find using my bank statements.
*sigh*
maybe looking into a beater truck that is 100% work use is the more viable option here.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
The irs publication mentions that companies have several different options available for reimbursing employees for expenses, like an allowance or per diem, above and beyond the 45 cents per mile. I wonder if this can presented as an option, or a lease+gas reimbursement for the months of construction use. hmm...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
As a bargaining tool, I would try to keep track of the actual expenses for a while, do some math, and see what it actually is costing you per year or day or whatever. If you can show the company that use of your personal vehicle is costing 5 times what they are paying, that should be an eye-opener for them.
Rental doesn't sound like a good option, as the actual vehicle expense would be higher per mile, plus you'd get charged for damage to a vehicle, for too many miles, etc.
I would say that this is definitely a case where you'd want to consider if you needed the latest $30,000 diesel pickup or the econo-import, especially if you're not towing or hauling large things.
Maybe get an off-road motorcycle for the offroad part?
You might also check into how the mileages are figured per IRS. For example, I think if you go from work to jobsite to home, that whole trip is chargeable, not just the work-to-jobsite part.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If I had a separate vehicle for work and for my major personal travelling then I could keep track of my costs better. If I only used a truck for my work, then I could show them all my gas, maintenance, insurance etc expenses. As it is, I drive about 500 miles in a weekend vs half that during the week for work. The whole root of the problem for me lies in the mileage (not enough to charge for my expenses- too much personal in comparison).
I live only a couple miles from my office so the mileage from home to site comes out to be pretty much the same as office to site.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
No company cares how badly you beat up or overload YOUR car or truck. The company definitely makes out on this type of deal. When you drive on job sites, your costs are much higher than what the government lets the company claim or what the company pays you. Driving on job sites wrecks your tires, ruins your air filters, kills your motor oil, wears out your brakes and rotors, and eats up your gas because you idle more while doing your paperwork with air conditioning or heat. Cars and pickup trucks were not meant to be on dirty, dusty construction sites every day.
It's up to you to say enough is enough. Unfortunately, if you do say enough's enough, you will probably need to find a new job. The company will not buy every field employee a company vehicle.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
According to the advertisements they are!
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Like mintjulip I did have to chuckle at the comment “ pickup trucks were not meant to be on dirty, dusty construction sites every day.” What exactly are they designed to do then? I do however realise that the op states he has a sudan.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
you could do your homework and create a cost justification "business case".
You say the owners just shrug their shoulders and say that's the way it has always been. What a cop out by lazy managers, and you fell for it. You are being required by your employer to use your own vehicle for their needs. Of course they'd like you to shut up and go away.
If this mileage thing is really bugging you, then you need to sell the company management. It may/may not be economically viable. But you'd have to do a rigorous cost/benefit analysis to prove it. The alternative is to stick with it and take the deductions. But I certainly would keep track of, and account for, every single penny of expense associated with that car, percentage of company-required usage, tire wear, oil, gas, wear/tear, insurance, batteries, bikini-babe car washes, air-freshener, ground-shaker bass speakers, autostart retrofit,...any and every "IRS-justifiable" expense associated with driving that car for the boss. Get my drift?
TygerDawg
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
So not only were we providing a wet least at below market rates, they were making a huge profit on the deal, too.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
If I do get a second vehicle, I will definitely leave it at the office overnight, although will have to look into the building management's policies (we are in an office complex). The complex is definitely under-utilized and there is plenty of available parking.
I have a few months until construction starts back up.... that's why I have time and access to get online
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Having worked for myself I have discovered this fact: the IRS is looking for the blatant cheats and ENRONs, not Joe Sixpack. The strategy is to work the system. That means account for everything, stretch the definitions if you've got the guts to do so, but be ready to sit in front of an IRS investigator at any time and justify your claims in writing and back it up with records. If you can't justify it in good faith, then don't claim it.
Following the various comments in this thread, it seems like it would be a good idea to get the old truck, then claim everything you're entitled to. Could make out pretty well I would think.
TygerDawg
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
selling management on it was my 'big idea' but I can't figure out what to sell them!
I suppose I wanted to present some viable option to them... but I can't figure out what option would pursuade them to either increase compensation or provide vehicles.
It looks like the route I am heading is towards getting a truck on my own and keeping close records (which I am very good at doing).
It may be a long-term strategy as it will take time to accrue the records etc. but at least its better than sitting on my brains and doing nothing but complain about it.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Maybe I can present this at that point.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
You said
"If I do get a second vehicle, I will definitely leave it at the office overnight, although will have to look into the building management's policies (we are in an office complex). The complex is definitely under-utilized and there is plenty of available parking."
Print off the company name and have it laminated to leave on the dashboard overnight. I would not worry about leaving the beater truck overnight at the office complex. If it is an issue with the office complex management company they will go to the owners for that. When they come to you tell them "That's my work truck what do you expect me to do with it?"
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Have a two wheeler scooter and charge the company for a 4 wheeler. This will not cause a hole in your pocket and your commuting is better as you mentioned that you have short runs
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
My approach to the "Management Selling" and cost justification task would probably be something like this.
(1) do the accounting for all costs. Be rigorous, and try to quantify intangibles like lost time, opportunity cost, convenience cost, company image, etc. Personnally I think PERSONAL & COMPANY LIABILITY RISK would be the deciding factor, but the numbers would show this.
(2) Write a proposal to management to improve operations through getting a few company cars to be kept in a pool. Be sure to show cost/benefit, and put it in dollars. Leave the opinion and editorializing out of it completely.
(3) Get support from the troops. Query everybody and see if this is the general feeling or is it just you wanting a car for yourself.
(4) Float it front of the management, do it professionally, and keep the tone of the proposal as "a bottom-line improvement" to the company.
Once, after my JerkBoss blew cigarrette smoke at me on purpose, I decided to see what it would take to make my workplace smoke-free. I called the Lung Association, got materials, queried the troops, and wrote a proposal. The General Manager hated smoking in the workplace, but didn't have the guts to address it. My proposal for "Company X Workplace Wellness Initiative" (NOT "anti-smoking") got implemented in a week. Boss had to smoke outside in the cold, the Jerk.
TygerDawg
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
http://www.runzheimer.com/web/bvs/home.aspx
You might send this link to someone in management...
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
My reimbursement rate is per mile, I cannot think of a way to purchase anything to "charge" to the company. Any expenses charged to the company above the mileage is looked at with a magnifying glass. Actually, it has to be pre-appproved or in an emergency, I'd have to go to management directly. We are a very small company.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Believe me, whenever you get ANY of the field personnel together to chat for more than a minute or two this topic comes up about how burned they are.
What makes it worse for us, is the fact that the VP's have leased vehicles and don't really utulize them much for company use. As mentioned above, most of our clients are local to us, and in reality most of their time (the VP's) are in the office.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
I would say your situation is NOT the norm from my experience.
Sounds like as long as you keep letting the company stick you with the bill, they'll keep sticking you with it. No way I'd spend my money on something the company I worked for should be providing...move on to a job that appreciates its employess and values their efforts. You are getting screwed and they know it and don't care.
Brian
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Have you read the really small print on your insurance policy? Although insurance is compulsary, the providers are nothing more than bookies and will do anything they can to not pay out if possible. My policy explicitly states that the car may only be used for "Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus travel to and from a regular place of work."
Outside of these uses, I would have no insurance and would therefore be driving illegally. In the event of an accident, I'd probably be taken to the cleaners by the other party and then prosecuted by the police.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
I suppose I haven't read the tiniest of prints, but I have the state minimums for liability as well as "at least" the minimums required by the financing company that carries my auto loan for comprehensive, ie no matter what happens my finance company is guaranteed that replacement value is covered. They don't care about liability, that is the state law, which I do follow.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
I swear, I am just going to look around.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Regards, (don't worry, you are not doing anything wrong)
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Its one thing to occasionally use your car for work, it is another to devote to work permenatly loaded whith tools.
Good Luck with the PE
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
I have a company truck and I figure it is worth at least $600 a month. Frankly, if the truck were go away I would go away. But that is function of experience and education and depends greatly on your negotiating skills.
Initial Investment
Monthly gas bill
Monthly Insurance
Regular Maintenance
Even when the truck is finally paid off the gas, insurance, and maintenance bills continue.
If I were you I'd try to negotiate a flat fee per month with your employer. Shoot for $650/month and work your down if need to not less than $550/month. As part of the deal you agree to take care of everything: no more mileage reimbursement paperwork so less administrative expense etc., and a fairer deal for for both parties. If it goes well buy a used truck that is not more than 3 years old and every 3 years trade it in. Heck you can get a brand new Ford F150 model work truck with extended cab for $20K.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Going back to the thread, I can tell you that I never had a personal vehicle myself. an if it depends from me, I will never have.
In both companies that I worked for, they always provided me a car. I an not in US, so I don't know the current practice there. I can also tell you that I recently refused a work offer being one of the main reasons not having a company car.
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Brian
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
RE: Using my personal vehicle for work...
Anything outside the city/town that your office is located in is not local. A company vehicle should be provided for jobs such as this. A company vehicle should be provided for all the jobs (in my opinion), but this may be too big a step. Ask your business manager to look into risk and liability of an employee using a personal vehicle for business related travel (i.e. consider if the employee gets into an injury accident with another person). Also do some research on the government allowed amount and what this really covers. My guess is that this wasn't intended for off road driving.