Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
(OP)
I have a question on Level 3 assembly drawings. The company I work for is really not into creating level 3 drawings. So with a contract with a military customer, the customer request level 3 drawings.
The company I work for typically does their assembly drawings as isometric explosion view.
My question, does level 3 drawings prohibit the use of isometric explosion views to depict an acurate assembly type drawing. I do not think so, but not sure if there is a spec that specifies this.
Thanks.
The company I work for typically does their assembly drawings as isometric explosion view.
My question, does level 3 drawings prohibit the use of isometric explosion views to depict an acurate assembly type drawing. I do not think so, but not sure if there is a spec that specifies this.
Thanks.





RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
I tried looking in past threads as I thought the reference was there but couldn't find it, did come across this.
thread1103-157857
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Thanks
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
That's too bad. Every eng company should have a copy.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Thanks
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Y14.24M-1989 (our current edition has gone walk-about) says at Requirements paragraph 4.3d
[quote]depiction of the items in the assembly relationship, using sufficient detail for identification and orientation of the items. Details of a subordinate assembly are not normally repeated on the assembly drawing of a higher order.[quote\]
I think is says the same in the newer version.
So certainly I would expect just an exploded iso not to be acceptable, it doesn’t show items in the assembly relationship and doesn’t rigidly define the orientation of the items.
I know a man who has checked level 3, I'll see if I can get him to chip in.
Ken
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
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RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
The appendix of ASME Y14.100 is really a copy of MIL-STD-100 and MIL-DTL-31000. You can view the specs at http://assist.daps.dla.mil/online/start/
Just click on quicksearch and type in 100 and 31000 in the document number field.
You'll see that MIL-STD-100 has been canceled and superseeded by the ASME specs, but you still have access to viewing Revision G.
MIL-DTL-31000 is still current at Revision C.
--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
That may not directly affect the question you asked but the following may to some extent.
Usually the government will effectively own the drawing pack at the end of it so it has to fully meet all their standards. If this is the case then you are effectively being paid for the drawing pack as well as any hardware you may end up delivering. Contract should make this clear.
At my last place in the UK we had to frequently remind management & production of this. They’d want us to designate hardware etc by its MRP codes or leave something out of drawings to give us a competitive edge or put more unnecessary information on drawings to make their jobs easier. Any of this would have contravened the equivalent to level 3.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
This company I work for now, the owner is under the REALLY old school of "you can drawing it on a napkin and the shop will understand it".....Which is correct, maybe our shop, because they can come in and ask question, but other companies may not.
Thanks again
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
That is also what I understand level 3 to mean - the equipment could be made by any competent engineering company in the world.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
I would pay close attention to your contract verbage regarding level 3. This could reject your entire design package if not followed.
Regarding the exploded view issue, better to show the assembled product as primary view, then use details or exploded views to callout parts.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Thanks
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
By my understanding of the section of 14.24 I put a few posts ago, an exploded iso assy view alone would not be adequate.
You may be lucky (if that's the right term). Some branches of the service are apparently stricter than others from what a colleague told me, with Navy being the strictest. My colleague has worked on contracts where the drawings were rejected and the program delayed accordingly.
I'd read that contract carefully and ask the office giving the contract for clarification if necessary, I doubt if trying to force them to take something will work out for you (by which I mean your company not you personally).
Ctopher - thanks I'd forgotten that 3rd reason.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Assist doesn't have it. IHS doesn't have it. GlobalSpec doesn't have it.
--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
thanks
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
¶ 3.6.2.1 is equivalent to DoD-D-1000 Level 1,
¶ 3.6.2.2 equivalent to Level 2,
(and for your application)
¶ 3.6.2.3 covers the former Level 3 requirements.
The verbage is quite similar to the old DoD-D-1000, level 3, thus the strict requirements ARE still there.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
ht
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Some of the specs are out of date.
This one will tell you what they are superseded by.
http://assist.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/
Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I'd be interested to find out what happened/how it went.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
An isometric drawing does not tell someone how to build a assembly (unless the assembly has 2 or three parts) maybe.
Crazy company this one.....
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
If they're trying to buy time does that mean some one is beavering away on proper level 3 drawings? I'm guessing not.
Good luck
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Can you imagine working at a company that the OWNER, would rather have the shop make a product, then have engineering go after and try and capture the design??? This main job, was NOT captured properly (especially with TONS of last minute changes), now the UNIT is GONE, and drawings still need to be created...OUCH...
Thanks again...
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Imagine it, I live it day to day at my current employer.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
I've only been here 6 month, so I just DON'T GET IT....
I guess scrape parts and re-work is fine.....
Thanks, Kenat
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
To me they are NOT even close to what a level 3 drawing should be. Oh well.
Thanks for ask though.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
I am surprised the customer (military) will except them...Guess things maybe have changed????
Thanks again,
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
On one of your posts you said: 'An isometric drawing does not tell someone how to build a assembly...'.
Don't fall into the mindset that a drawing is a manufacturing document. It is first and foremost an engineering document and, as such, should describe only the end-item requirements. It should not describe how to get from point A to point B (there are exceptions for special processes not widely practiced in similar manufacturers).
People add reams of notes saying how to do things (I call these instructions) ala "INSERT SCREW, FIND NO 4, INTO HOLE. ENGAGE NUT ON SCREW." Sometimes people do it because they don't know any better. Sometimes they do it because the manufacturing function lacks the people to write work instructions or because Mgmt tells them to do it.
To tell a manufacturer how to get from A to B is essentially telling him how to do his job: it ties his hands, stifles his ingenuity and creativity, and drives up costs. Not to mention that the drawing becomes a living, breathing, heavy creature that is constantly undergoing change and eating up engineering hours!
Whew,...,sorry but I've fought this battle with so many for so long it aint funny!
Tunalover
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
thanks
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
I wouldn't because an exploded isometric view alone does not depict the end-item. I would use an exploded view only for reference (non-binding, doesn't count). Just place the note REFERENCE in the view caption.
Tuna
Tunalover
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 01-18-07)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
And from my understanding of the standard, certainly not just an exploded iso.
I'm also with tuna on generally keeping instructions off drawings. They should normally be phrased as requirements or in a separate work instruction created by manufacturing.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
On the small assemblies I try and show views and details of assemblied items (hardware and such), though I am told quit spending time on those type of drawings.
Maybe they are trying to buy time since we ran out of time by months on getting the customer a good package like the customer wanted and were expecting. We all know that a level 3 package, should be understandable by anyone else to manufacture, not just the company who initially designed and build it.
Like I said before the owner of this company (who calls the shots on EVERYTHING), has always thought drawings are a waste of time.....
Thanks again everyone.
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
It goes to show you how many people in this business (especially management) think they know as much (or more) than the designer/ME. I call this "confident cluelessness."
Does the contract state that the product and drawing package will undergo a Physical Configuration Audit (PCA). If so then tell your boss (the owner) that if the auditor is anything more than a rubber stamp he'll end up rethinking his expertise on engineering documentation over six figures worth of drafting hours.
Tunalover
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Tunalover
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 01-18-07)
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
RE: Assembly Drawing, LEVEL 3
My place which deals with nanotechnology is arguably stuck in the future. However we encounter similar problems.