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Starting salary for a graduate EE?
6

Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Starting salary for a graduate EE?

(OP)
A friend is potentially going for a job in New Hampshire, recent graduate in Electronic Engineering. Graduated in the UK.

What would be a reasonable expectation of starting salary, in a pretty small company? He has no idea of living costs, etc. in the 'states.

Many thanks!

M.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

How does he work in the US?  The company is sponsoring his working visa?  If they do, you really cant argue how much you are making because there arent that many companies that will sponsor non citizen. It other words, your friend needs the job more than the company needs him.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

(OP)
It's company sponsored.

M.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

well, if he is desprately need the job to be in the US then just expect average salary.  Look it up on the internet, there are a lot of website that will give you average income for certain type of engineer.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

(OP)
Salary.com reckons 45-60K for a recent graduate. Seems a bit high?

M.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Subtract $5000 to that.  The company is going to spend 5000 on his working permit.  Its all about how much he really wants to move to the US. A lot of people in the world would love to move to the US and get experience.  A lot of them are willing to work for a lot less than average (30K-ish).  I think 40K is a good number to expect.  Go to zillow.com if you want to see he house market there.  It is a good comparison to living expense.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

(OP)
Thanks, COE!

M.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

I think the US gov
t should do something to stop non-citizens from working for 30K just to be in the US- ie, impose a tariff, so to speak. At least I wish they would.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

well, they do have regulation on this.  They must post the job to public before they give it to non-citizen.  So usually the job is usually very specific and need a highly trained proffessional that is hard to find in the US.  But for some reason there's alway a loop to go around this.  Like for example this post, it is an entry level job so I bet they can find someone local easy.

The good thing about having a foreigner, they tend to stay in the company longer.  Because if they quit, they pretty much have to leave the country (or find another sponsor that is hard to find).  So you dont have to worry about a new engineer learn a lot in a year and leave the company and you have to retrain a new engineer again.  I think thats why sometimes companies dont mind paying 5000 for paper work.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

I aim higher than $40000 though (45 K maybe), hopefully they will offer him that or lower it a little.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

I really don't think the company in US can't find any similar background of people in States. What they find is people willing to work at lower pay. I know some non-citizens with H-1B earn only 25-30K for the entry-level engineer.

This is another kind of out-sourcing!!!

Can we speak up!!!!

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

2
You've just got to love the land of free enterprise.

Oh well, one day you'll realise the good bits of what you had, and why you lost them.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

2
Last few posters ('cept Greg): do you feel the same about US engineers working abroad too? Maybe you think the US government should close your airports and docks, withdraw the passports of all your citizens, and bring all your occupying forces home from across the globe? That would fit in nicely with your closed border mentality.

Perhaps you should take a look at what you have written and realise that US engineers go abroad to work just like citizens of other nations do. It is a pity you can't see the hypocracy in your words.

----------------------------------
  Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Greg/Scotty,

Well said!!

Talk about parochial!

Whats the motto? 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.......blah blah blah...' Oh, unless you happen to be an Engineer, when in which case you can p*** off!!

Cheers

Harry

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Great, I guess this is a "screwthe US" thread now, huh? Can you give me one good reason why we, as enginers, shouldn't pull away from foreigners trying to take our jobs at half what we get? Its only natural to want to secure your living when foreigners are taking the bread off of your table. Wouldn't you feel the same way? Does any of this address the OP in the first place? Why not start a political thread about why US engineers are being outsourced rather than expound your anti-American views on this thread just because the window of opportunity cracked slightly open?

I think the tired and the huddled masses are actually from a time in our past. Eventually, if not already, the tired and the huddled may need to make due wherever they are.

To me, if an "engineer" from another country wants to do US work for $30K, that's akin to waging war on my profession and it should not be tolerated. What am I supposed to do, drop my prices to met his/hers? That a bunch of mularky! I say they need to hit the road. Should I feel otherwise? More imprtantly, would you if you were in this situation? Would you admit it? Do you admit it?

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

(OP)
Well, I wasn't expecting *that* response, but I can understand feelings on the issue (I'm from ireland myself, population 4 million, and with a large influx of "foreign" i.e. EU ascension countries workers in the last few years)

If it helps any, my friend is being offered a job in his family's firm, so the company "out-sourcing" is actually probably contributing to the economy in the US already, rather than taking away from it ;o)

With regard to "outsourcing", there is already considerable outsourcing with american firms, many of them here in Ireland. I think that "out-sourcing" is not going to be a major problem with engineering/architectural trades, where a presence is needed "on-site" - firms seem to prefer to re-locate entire manufacturing facilites (e.g. Intel). Any industry that requires large numbers of graduates (pharma, skilled manufacturing, etc.) will relocate to where the workers are cheapest.

One thing I do really sympathise with is the american system of double taxation - now that is a real barrier to americans working abroad.

M.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

I just saw the South Park episode where the goo-backs from the future come back in time and compete for jobs with the South Park inhabitants.  Oh well, at least some people get it.

"Can you give me one good reason why we, as enginers, shouldn't pull away from foreigners trying to take our jobs at half what we get?"

Um, if they do a job that is as good, then by what right do you expect to get paid twice as much? How will the company hiring you stay in business if its worldwide competitors are able to hire good engineers at half the price? It won't.

Of course, if you want to live in a country where the state sets the acceptable pay rate for a given occupation, you may find the USSR would have suited you better.

We're not anti USA, in fact both Scotty and myself have written pro-USA (but antiwhining) sentiments in this thread.

Surely you should be trying to explain why your employer should pay twice as much for the same job?

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

HVACctrl,

Actually it was yourself who steered the thread in the direction it is currently going:

Quote:

I think the US govt should do something to stop non-citizens from working for 30K just to be in the US- ie, impose a tariff, so to speak. At least I wish they would.

Ed

I'm absolutely amazed that you can't see that the situation where US engineers work in other countries is no different to the situation where engineers from other countries work in the US. US engineers frequently work at our plant and are no more skilled than the indigenous engineers. They just happen to work for a company that is US-based. If you were in my position you would no doubt be complaining about American engineers coming over taking British jobs. I enjoy working with those guys, I learn from them, they learn from me, we have a laugh now and then.

If you really can't accept that US citizens are no different to those of many other nations when it comes to skills and ability, maybe you need to take a look at how world economics work. The US can either compete with the rest of the world on a reasonably level playing field, or it can lock itself away behind closed doors. Those really are the two options, like it or not.

----------------------------------
  Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

You think we should impose something?  Those poor people only make $1.50/day in Indonesia making $150 nike shoes.  Do they take away jobs from honest americans?  It is fair then if some foreign engineers get work in the US LEGALLY.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Getting an H1B visa as a new grad is not going to be trivial by any means.  I was amazed at the complexity when I applied for mine and appalled at some of the job responsibilities my lawyer wanted me to fabricate and/or embellish as part of the application.

To respond to all the "outsourcing" comments...  Most of the money I earned when in America went straight into the hands of American retailers.  I wasn't burning it or sending it home, just living in the fast lane for a bit, while stoking the American economy.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

In response to SomptingGuy above, that sort of "embellishment" is just the sort of thing that draws the derision of native engineers.  We have laws which state H1B visas are for jobs that can't be filled by local workers.  Companies which use these types of work arounds are, to me, in the same boat as companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants.  I don't place blame on the workers, but I do think the companies and the laws should face increased scrutiny.

As far as "stoking the American economy", I can see your point, though in actuality the practice does put downward pressure on US engineering salaries.  And many other workers do send large portions of there earnings home.  For example, the #2 source of foreign income (after oil proceeds) for Mexico is workers sending home their American earned pay.

I'm no isolationist, but I can't buy this level playing field idea.  First off, the playing field isn't level when I pay for a $50,000 education (many pay more) and compete for jobs with people educated for free or much less, and who are willing to live at a level considered poverty here in America.  Secondly, though there may be an aspect of fairness in a "level playing field", the reality of populations and resources means we would all have an exceedingly poor standard of living were things to be level around the world.  I'm pretty sure nobody here at e-tips would accept that change if it happened to them over night.  I guess we all live in the grey area between isolationism and a world economy.

Personally, I'm thinking of taking up a trade to fall back on, as I'm pretty sure they'll never be able to send someone over from China to fix peoples plumbing ;)

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

OK,
Maybe I was a little hot-handed in my post. FOr that, I apologize if I offended anyone. Seriously.

I have no problem with foreigners- any foreigners- coming to the US and working my trade or any trade for that matter if they get paid at the general going rate. Ideally, I probably shouldn't get upset even if they come in and upset the apple cart by asking for a salary of half what I make. I guess that's capitolism at its best- even if they do send a large portion of their income home to their family in another country. I guess we need to live by the sword/ die by the sword, so to speak.

It is disheartening, though, to see that engineering salries have declined and the profession doesn't get the same respect that it used to. I'm not sure the answer, but do foreign medical doctors come into the country and work for half price? Is that even accepted? Its sad to see that our work is becoming more of a commodity. I do believe that undercutting of salaries by foreign workers does contribute to that effect.

Someone mentioned that they were amazed that I couldn't see the same thing happening when US engineers go to other countries and work. I think it could be different, although I'm not 100% sure. But here's why:
1) I think the US workers are often being employed by US companies or at least companies with very strong business in the US
2) I don't think that US engineers are diluting the salary rates by going to other countries and working for low pay.

It's really only the low pay thing that bothers me. Again, I admit that I should probably find a way to live with it as it is only capitolism in action.

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Youngturk,

In the UK we already have the "Polish Plumber"! (Although I guess it may be anectodal/media hype, as I have never come across one...)


Cheers

Harry

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Youngturk,

For the record, my H1B was to replace an L1B (intracompany transfer) that was fast running out.  Moving staff around the World is good for multinational companies - it builds and binds teams.  Anyway, in applying for the H1B, the American lawyer wasn't at all interested that my work was highly specialised and I'd already been doing that exact job for a couple of years.  He was trying to put the word "manager" into my mouth all the time.  It all got very frustrating.  I think my work was actually too specialised for him to understand.

You're dead on about the education thing though.  For people my age and older, it was less than free (beer money was supplied too).  Not any more though.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

Ed,

No offence taken, don't worry.

You're right in both your points, but on the first point there are very few jobs which could not be done by an indigenous engineer from, say, England, Germany or Poland to name just a few of the technically skilled nations IF the US-owned company was mandated to employ one instead of shipping their own engineer out from the states. Most other countries don't take such a militant attitude, and I hope you can see why we reasonably expect a reciprocal arrangement.

I made a conscious decision to work in an industry that 'they' can't offshore to China or India: power generation. I understand completely the frustration the people employed in manufacturing feel having seen the great shipyards and the turbine works of my hometown close down as it became cheaper to build them in the Far East. It is the downside of globalisation, but it is also inevitable.

----------------------------------
  Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

SG: Wasn't trying to take issue with you personally, just commenting on the whole foreign engineer / visa topic.  Didn't mean it as an inference that your situation was improper (though it sounds like the company lawyer may have dealt with situations which were less than kosher).

Pud:  Hadn't heard of the polish plumber before, thats a great tie in.  This whole debate is funny.  I always try to remember I'm not too many generations removed from a "polish plumber" myself (german farmer, actually).  

I just hope the pot keeps on meltin' and I keep on workin' too.

RE: Starting salary for a graduate EE?

I have never cared for any sort of protectionism.  If a foreign engineer is willing to leave his home and family and come to this country to do an honest days work, let him come.  I will compete with him for available jobs because I feel I can provide my employer with a higher value relative to my wage.  If I can't complete, then I should find another trade.  Many of the engineers I work with have spent time working around the world for US companies.  If we want that option, we have to accept the competition here.  A little competition should not drive down the wage as much as drive up the productivity.  Who here could not work a little harder, smarter or better?  I work with engineers from England, Canada and Lebanon.  All of them do fine work and I am glad to have the chance to work with them. You either favor open markets or you don't.  If we want to sell our products around the world, we should be willing to compete on all other playing fields as well.  

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