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When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms
2

When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

(OP)
OK, my English teacher sister has given me the "correct" usage, but I can't get myself to do it consistently. I use a lot of acronyms in things I write about. Case in point, RVSS which stands for Reduced Voltage Solid State, as in " they need to use a (an) RVSS starter for that." My sister says that you ignore the sound of the acronym's first letter and use "a" because that is what you would use if you spelled out the entire word-set of the acronym, and since the first word starts with a consonant, you would not use "an Reduced...". My problem with this is that I tend to type as if I were speaking and if I read "a RVSS" out load, it sounds like "ARVSS", which would be confusing.

What do you all do?

JRaef.com
"Engineers like to solve problems.  If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems."   Scott Adams  
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Not sure it's correct but I tend to use a or an based on the 'sound' of the start of the acronym.  Because your example sounde like are... or argh... I'd use "an RVSS".

However I'm dyslexic, lazy and scraped a C in English so don't take my word for it!

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I also use the sound of the first letter of the acronym like KENAT.

Its based upon how you speak it, not the word that it represents.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Your sister is wrong. If the acronym or abbreviation sounds like it starts with a vowel then use "an". What the letters stand for is irrelevant.

"RVSS" sounds like it starts with the letter "a", which is a vowel, hence you should say "an RVSS".

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Does anyone remember the Chef of the Future episode from the old Honeymooners TV series with Jackie Gleason? It won't seem nearly as funny when I type it, but the first time Norton said

"Can it core a apple?"

was just about the funniest TV moment ever.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I also go by the sound of the letter.
An RVSS

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Yes, it can core a apple.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

a university because it sounds like You-niversity.

When I learned english as 2nd language, my teacher was a british.  He also taught me how to pronounce "the".

I guess there are 2 ways to pronounce, one is "tha" and the other one is "thee".  You use "tha" before a noun that sounds like a consonant.  And "thee" if it sounds like a vowel"

"thee" apple, "tha" man, "tha" university, "thee" end.

But i dont think americans use it as much.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Yeah, we do.  We're just not really aware of it.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I'm just not getting it.... why would core a apple be the funniest moment in TV history?

I've tried saying it quickly, in a Norton voice and with accents. Still didnt' get it hairpull3

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

It wasn't just the line itself, but the whole bit.  Ralph and Norton were doing a live informercial for a kitchen gadget, Ralph clammed up, so Norton jumped in...

Ok, I guess you had to be there. :)

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Quote:

Yeah, we do.  We're just not really aware of it.

I think this is probably true for most native speakers of their own language.  When I learned German (long time ago, forgotten since) I was amazed at the way it was full of logical rules (except for all those strong verbs!).  I passed my O'level by learning the rules and applying them to a small amount of vocabulary rather than learning to communicate in the language.

I wonder how many young German children think in terms of subordinate clauses requiring verbs to move around and dative/accusative connundrums before they speak?

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Any suggestions for cases when the acronym forms a pronouncable word and some people pronounce it and others spell it?

I need a HEPA filter.
I need an aitch e pea a filter.

Just curious.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

What does H stand for?  I think you need to use a or an based on what it stands for.  If you are talking, than you can say an or a based on how you pronounce the acronym.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

well, if I compare an ASTM to an ISO one, seems it's okay.  But if I compare a CSA standard to a UL, well.... I get problems :)
hrm, wonder if an ANSI one splits the tie?

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

==> well, if I compare an ASTM to an ISO one, seems it's okay.  But if I compare a CSA standard to a UL, well.... I get problems
Going by the sound of the letter.
An 'A' sounds like aigh - vowell sound (a) so use 'an'.
An 'I' sounds like eye - vowell sound (i) so use 'an'.
A 'C' sounds like see - consonant sound (s), so use 'a'.
A 'U' sounds like you - consonant sound (y), so use 'a'.

One think to keep in mind, if the acronym in an initialism -- each letter spoken individually, then the sound of the first letter is what counts.  For example, in the OP, the initialism is RVSS.  Each letter is pronounced individually, and since R sounds like 'are', a vowell sound, 'an' is the correct article - an RVSS.  However, if the acronym is pronounced as a word, such as RADAR, then the initial letter (not the sound of the letter) controls which article to use - a radar.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Hi COengineeer,

the H stands for High.  High Efficiency Particulate Air filter.  Pronouncing the acronym generally sounds something like "heap-uh" with the first syllable accented.  Something that would generally be preceded by an "a" when pronounced (unless you use one of those dialects that drops initial aitches).

So, sometimes pronounced, sometimes spelled.  Sometimes "a", sometimes "an".  Which would you write?

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms



This thread is being more and more confusly, this is my contribution:

A backronym or a bacronym

An acronym

For instance: I saw it in an ANSI code or in a BSI norm based on an EN standard.


After assisting to an ONU resolution I went to a CEE meeting to discuss the task group based in a MACINTOSH system.

MACINTOSH = "Most Applications Crash, If Not, The Operating System Hangs".

Luis

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

you shoul type "a" HEPA filter because H stands for High and you put a infront of H.  But if you are saying it on your presentation, then stick with "a" or "an" depending on what it sounds like.

so you can say "an" H-E-P-A  OR you can say "a" heap-uh.  But when you type it, stick with if you were saying what it stands for.  

But really, the more I think about it, the more confused I am.  So maybe you should go to an english teacher forum and let us know :).



RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

NO.  You type it as you'd say it.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Quote:

you shoul type "a" HEPA filter because H stands for High

NO!. The entire point of using "an" or "a" is to avoid awkward phonetic combinations. As such you have to decide based upon the sound of the next word, not on what the next word stands for.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Coengineer is correct.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Which part is he correct on? I'll agree with the last statement, where he suggests finding someone who knows.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Quote:

and you put a infront of H

I think COEngineer is standing into danger here.  There's one of the more pedantic schools of English Grammar which argues otherwise - hence the ugly, difficult, improbable, but allegedly correct "an hotel".

I've more or less given up worrying which article to use with abbreviations - opinion is so thorougly split on this one that whichever way you go half your audience is going to think you're wrong.

A

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I use 'an' with words starting with a silent H, an hour, but 'a' with words starting with the 'atch' sound, a hotel, a HEPA filter.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

an hour (as it is pronounced like "our")
a HEPA filter (as it is invariably pronounced as "heap-ah" and not because what H stands for)
a hotel
an honest person
a UPS
an umbrella

are correct. I did go to a business writing class and the advise there was to use "an" when the the phonetic sound of the word when pronounced is a vowel. The use of an or a depends on the pronunciation of the word not the spelling.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

a UPS

but an uninterruptible power suppply

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

rbulsara,

Your advice is wrong.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Tomfh, if you are going to say that rbulsara's advise is wrong, you ought to say where it is wrong, not just throw aspersions.  His list appears correct to me.  "An HEPA filter" just doesn't sound nearly as smooth as "a HEPA filter".

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Just joking. I meant rbulsara spelled advice wrong. You spelled it wrong too by the way.

I agree that rbulsara's list is entirely correct.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Cheers!!
peace

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I use the sound.

For HEPA, I would use "a", because people pronounce it as like a word, and in doing so the first sound that comes out of their mouth is a non-vowel sound.

I would say "an" RVSS, "an" HPU, "a" CPU, "a" NEMA starter, "an" IEC starter, "an" SMS.

I think it is grammatically correct to go by the sound.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I hate it when I use the wrong word, correctly spelled.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

According to my Hodge's Harbrace College Handbook, 11th Edition, you are to use the article that corresponds to the initial spoken sound of the word it precedes.

As for the HEPA argument, I agree with those that say acronym generally pronounced as words should be treated that way in this context as well.  My vote:  A HEPA filter...

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Of course in certain parts of the UK it's common that people don't pronounce a leading h.  But at least they then follow the a/an rules: "an 'appy day!"

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

I think Ill take back what I said.  Just use how it sounds.

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

(OP)
So, the consensus here is that we type "a" and "an" as if were were speaking the words and based on the sound of the first letter in the acronym (leaving HEPA out of it for the moment).

I read the Usage Guide in the front of a big huge Random House dictionary at my local library and it confirms this; "a" and "an" are based solely on the audible sound of the subsequent word's first syllable, even if that word is an acronym.

Ha! After 45 years of being the subordinate sibling (I don't remember the first 5), I have FINALLY proven my big sister wrong! Truly a red letter day spin

JRaef.com
"Engineers like to solve problems.  If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems."   Scott Adams  
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376

RE: When to use "a" or "an" with acronyms

Good grief, it's no wonder we engineers have the reputation of being geeks.  We apparently are!

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