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Engineer Salary
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Engineer Salary

Engineer Salary

(OP)
Hi! I am a civil graduate (May 2005). I've been working for about 1.5 years since graduation. During college I worked several internships, a co-op and worked for the University doing structural work. I took a job with a relatively small company making an average entry level salary. $43680 + 1.5(OT). I'll probably make around $50k this year. Since I arrived, I have thrived in the consulting envrironment. I have a few clients, I'm doing project management work and I do more design work than any other civil/structural here. I am very proficient in STAAD and trained in Land Developement. I am the right-hand man of the principal civil engineer and will bill 1800+ this year. I guess right place at the right time sort of thing. So a year has past and I would like to ask for a raise. I know (at least think I do) there will be resistance. Do you folks feel I have some ammunition??? I don't want to leave but I want to be appreciated at the same time. I think I'm worth and my position is worth more, but I don't want to get shut down. HELP!! Thanks so much.

RE: Engineer Salary

One would think with 1800+ billed hours you should not go unnoticed but only you will know this.  Do you have your FE (EIT) cert? This could put you at the top of the pile since with 1 1/2 years experience you are close to PE eligibility.

www.EngineerSalary.com

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
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      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
Yes, I have my EIT and am taking graduate work in structural. Also, I have 5 years of military experience (maybe be irrelevant)

RE: Engineer Salary

brane23,

Will you be eligible to take the PE after two years experience? If so, you may want to focus all your energy and attention on passing the test, especially since you'll need your advisor and at least three other references to vouch for you in order to take the test.

If it has been more than a year and you feel you have earned a raise, do some research and find out what fair market value is for someone with your experience and credentials. Youy're doing the right thing by getting into project management. Try to find a way to negotiate an increase that will not leave you with a dollar more and your employer with a dollar less. For instance, what does your employer bill your time for? Billing rates are tyypically multiplied by 3. Maybe you can make a case for a higher billable rate and hence a higher hourly salary for yourself. The botton line is if you can find a way for your company to make more money, then naturally, you should make more money.

 

RE: Engineer Salary

I would not push for a raise until you get your PE.

Did you get an annual raise? Did you get a review? If not, I would ask to schedule a review and then, depending on how that goes, broach the subject.

Your military experience is irrelevant to this issue.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------

RE: Engineer Salary

In mechanical engineering it would not be unusual for a young engineer's pay to rise by 8-15% pa over the 4 years after graduating. FWIW my pay doubled in four years, and I went up two grades (Junior engineer->engineer->senior engineer), sitting at the same desk.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Engineer Salary

2
Several things to consider:
(1) you ONLY have 1.5 years work experience + internships.  When I was just starting out I thought I knew everything and was invaluable to the company.  25+ years later, I now know this to be not true.  EVERYONE needs to pay their dues.  Looking back, I wish that I had concentrated on living my life at a younger age rather than allowing my ego to chase dollars, while at the same time booking some very valuable experience.  But you must make that decision as to whether your current employer is providing you the opportunity to gain good experience.  
(2) In my humble cynical opinion it's a falacy that pay raises are merit-based.  They SHOULD be, but many times are not.  They usually depend upon company health, economic factors, inflation rate, job grades and associate payscale restrictions, and unfortunately political factors.  Typically pay raises will be inflation_rate + a little if you've been a good boy.  It may be tougher if you work for a small company.  The President of a small company typically started the company to fund his beach house and Trophy Wife's diamond collection, not to make his employees wealthy.
(3) Speaking of small companies, don't discount the fact that you may be wearing many hats and that you are gaining fabulous experience.  A larger firm may pay more, but you might get stuck in a specialty.  This kind of many-hats experience has a value that doesn't show up in your paycheck, but it might later on if you decide to leave.

TygerDawg

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
Thank you all very much...

RE: Engineer Salary

"The President of a small company typically started the company to fund his beach house and Trophy Wife's diamond collection, not to make his employees wealthy." - TygerDawg

Spoken like a man who doesn't own or run an engineering firm.  I would say most people who start a small company do so out of drive and ambition. Your attitude is why I have considered opening the books to all employees and letting everyone know what everyone else (and the company) are making. It may not be as rosy as you think as health care and insurance take bigger and bigger bites out of the cashflow.

As for brane23, don't forget the time the company funded you when you were training and getting started. Now that you are finally producing at the level they needed you at to begin with, you can start to help find ways to make the company more profitable. More profit and more profit brought in by you means more money for all.

I also agree with the others, sit tight and get started studying for your PE.  You can make yourself feel better compensated by looking at it as paid grad school with lots of experience and an eventual PE to boot. Good luck and don't let a few dollars get in the way of good work and good experience.

ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com

RE: Engineer Salary

Read the above very carefully.  You like your work.  You feel like you are an important part of the company.  You're making good money (it really isn't about keeping score, you can live on $50k/year).  You are getting great experience.

Work on your PE.  Keep taking graduate courses.  Keep building your experiences.  Seek out the toughest projects.  Don't bring up salary at all and try to stop thinking about it (I know how hard that is).

Five years from now take another look at your position and see if you are where you want to be.  With 5-7 years and a PE and maybe a masters you should be able to enter a serious salary negotiation from a position of strength since you'll have the option of going out on your own at that point.

As a military vet who has hired a fair number of other vets over the years, let me say your military experience is not irrelevant to many prospective employeers.  People who were not in the military may look at your service time as a wasted youth, but folks who have been there know what that experience can do for a person's leadership skills, problem-solving skills, etc.  I always put vet's resume's on the top of the stack when I was looking for folks.

It looks to me like the only thing that can screw up your future is unreasonable expectations.

David

RE: Engineer Salary

Don't ask for too much too soon.

Why is my handle 65Roses?
Please visit www.cff.org to learn why!

RE: Engineer Salary

65Roses,

One story is that a little boy had problem pronouncing cystic fibrosis when someone explained to him what his mother had. Not sure if the story is true, but it is a good one none the less.

brane23,

I don't often disagree with David, since he doesn't often give me reason to. And this is not one of them. I would like to add to his suggestion though.

You need to take a look around you (literally, not metaphorically) and see what similar duties to yours are paying. Some places are low payers, some, high payers. If you can make more money doing the same thing (all else being equal), then my suggestion is that you ask for a raise - and go to the other job if you don't get it.

Companies change suppliers all the time (changing office supply company because they offered much better prices on of all things, photocopying paper) and everyone says that is a good move. So, why shouldn't you, as an engineer, seek to maximise profits (your salary) also?

Keep in mind all that the other posters have opined. Money really isn't everything - it all depends on what is important to you.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Engineer Salary

Someone said military experience was irrelevant. I think it can be relevant to some employers. It implies dedication, possible management skills, etc...

Of course, this mostly helps one to get hired in the first place, but may not help once employed unless the experience actually manifests itself in your performance.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Engineer Salary

You never mentioned what state your are from.  Are you saying 1.5 years youve been with them, you never get a raise?  Arent they suppose to give you a review?  I think you have to get at least 4% raise.  Expect to get more than 5% when you are finih with your M.S. Also getting your PE will give them no option to give you at least $55k/year.  If they dont, they are just waiting for you to quit.

I think everyone deserves at least 4% raise on their first year.

RE: Engineer Salary

I know many Civil engineers with 3-5 working experiences making around 45-55K in Texas? Your level is not bad. I think

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
From West Virginia. Consulting in Industry. 1.5 years experience.

RE: Engineer Salary

Like I said before, you should get at least 4% for your 1st year review.  If they dont do review on 1st year, they will lose a lot of engineers because new engineers learn a lot in 1 year.  They can easily move on to other firms with that experience.  

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
Exactly. I agree

RE: Engineer Salary

If you haven't had any pay increases since you've been there you've probably got a problem.

Many places give 6 monthly increases for the first year or two for graduate engineers.

As CoEngineer said your value as an engineer grows rapidly during the first few years then tends to slow down.  As such other things being equal I'd expect your pay to increase similarly.

Out of interest did the issue of when/how you'd get pay increases not come up in an interview before you took the position?

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
Not initially. Probably my fault. I worked for the government previously, so it was given you would get a raise. In the private sector, ecspecially in a small firm it's almost a mind game / tug-of-war.

RE: Engineer Salary

That's one of the draw back working for a small company very informal operating procedures.

I went three years without a review or a raise.  I think they purposely didn't want to give me a review so they didn't have to deal with me asking for a raise.

I shortly left getting myself a $15K raise.  But I still do contracting work for them making good $$$$$ and they pay me net 15.

RE: Engineer Salary

I am not looking at creating a salary tangent... my question is:

how do you find "what you are worth"?  I looked on salary.com as mentioned in the FAQ's and the salary range was way way off from what I expected.

Anybody else have this issue?

RE: Engineer Salary

(OP)
It seems like what YOU are "worth" and what your POSITION is "worth" are the two combatting factors. I generally use the government's salary scale for engineers because I'm young and it seems to be  good guide, but once the PE is obtained I would say it no longer applies.

RE: Engineer Salary

Electronic Design magazine has the average EE at $96K and 21 yrs of experience.

Salary.com puts EE 5 at between $96K and $128K, so there seems to be some match.

Worth is very subjective and "your mileage may vary."  What did you expect the salary to be?

TTFN



RE: Engineer Salary

My "national average" seems to fit, but I am in a high cost of living area and am actually struggling financially.  I looked up the salary.com guidelines and the low end of my range is $20K+ more than what I am making.  Kind of freaking out at the large gap!

RE: Engineer Salary

esloan: I agree with IRStuff that WORTH is very subjective.  How much one earns totally depends on the company and the profit margin.  For doing the exact same work, there are companies that easily pay 20% higher.

Though small local firms may be great "training grounds", larger national or international firms generally pay higher.

brane23: $21/hr starting pay sounds a bit low.  Anticipate largest percentage increases over the next five years (if you are working for one firm).  At certain milestones in your career, opportunities will present themselves to you at even greater jumps.  25 to 30% isn't unheard of once you have a P.E.

RE: Engineer Salary

Well, there could me a multitude of reasons.  Are you stagnating, are you being offered ever increasing responsibilities?

Perhaps some sort of self assessment is in order.  You should look at the job descriptions, both at salary.com and the ones for you current job and the next grade up.  Find out what is required to advance.  

How are raises given?  Have you been getting reasonable raises?  Did you start out really low?

TTFN



RE: Engineer Salary

I'd say that inside a company 20% differential between different engineers with the same experience, abilities, and work responsibilities is a bit much, after a few years, but I can easily believe 10%.

And with new hires anything is possible.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Engineer Salary

what type of raise am i looking at when i obtain my PE?  should i also expect a raise if i obtain the SE as well?  

RE: Engineer Salary

and salary.com isn't very accurate, in my opinion.  either that or my boss is getting my services for cheap, LOL.  good thing that man is like a concrete deity, so i can accept it because i learn a ton from him.

RE: Engineer Salary

2
I agree with zcp-anyone that has never owned or managed a small engineering firm has no idea about costs, risks, liabilities etc.  We have a small consulting firm-electrical, mechanical and civil.  The two principal engineers, a mechanical with 40 years experience and an electrical with 38 years experience are paid salaries of $95,000.00/year and a $700.00/month auto allowance. Period.  Our lead civil engineer, 30 years experience, is paid $90,000.00/year.  Pretty average pay for NM in the private sector.  We have one EIT mechanical that will take his PE exam in 2 weeks-he started at $45,000/year which will increase to $50,000 once he is awarded his PE. A lot depends on job duties, responsibilities, attitude, loyalty and project performance.  We look at cash flow, overall productivity and the bottom line.  One of our EE's poor plans ended up in a $250,000 e & o claim last year against our firm. If the money isn't there it can't be paid.  As an owner I'm the last one in line for a paycheck.  Believe me-there were 6 payrolls I missed last year.  I'm driving a 2000 Maxima and not rolling in dough.  We aren't getting rich but we're hanging in there.

RE: Engineer Salary

My two -cents.

You are worth what people will pay. You move around a few times and your salary will increase dramatically.

If you've been at a company at year you should get an annual performance review minimum. That lets you know how you are performing. the pay raise or lack of should correlate to your performance.

Don't forget everybody in the US reading this got a 3.2%average pay decrease in 2006 (ie) inflation. Ref
U.S. Department                                      
                                                       Bureau of Labor Statistics
                                                        Washington, D.C. 20212
                                                          Consumer Price Index
                                                      All Urban Consumers - (CPI-U)

RE: Engineer Salary

On the other hand, about that great and valuable experience everyone is talking about:
"Experience does not wait for the number of years" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

Think about yourself. You do not owe anything to anyone, you are selling your intelligence at a market rate, higher bidder out there, feel free to go without remorse.

RE: Engineer Salary

From my own personal experience working for a VERY small consulting firm fresh out of school, I learned A LOT and loved the people I worked with like family and was probably the happiest I have ever been in my 12 year career - made absolutely crappy money.  Left 3 mo after my PE letter came in the mail for state gov't and got a $6k raise.  Left 5 mo later back to private sector for another $6k raise and left 2 years (back to gov't sector) after that for another $4k raise.  Changing jobs definitely increased my earnings, but I never really found that same happiness.  Got good raises where I was the last four years, but that has meant that my current job change is going to be pretty lateral with upward potential going back to the private sector.  I'm hoping that it will be more like my first job and that my job satisfaction will inch back towards where it was.

That said, I also am a big believer in asking for what you want without making threats.  I wouldn't threaten to leave if you don't get the money you ask for unless you really want to get out.  In my first 5 years, we had one year where work was really slow and I didn't get a raise and I knew it was because the company was barely making it.  But when things turned around, I made it easy for my boss to give me something I wanted by asking for a raise in professional development allowance.  I wanted to join NSPE and a couple other organizations and go to some conferences.  I took that in lieu of a raise, but really it was win-win for us both as I would have paid out of pocket otherwise and this way I didn't pay taxes on the money.  He didn't even bat an eye at it as it benefitted us both.  I probably should have pushed for more cash, but I was happy and living comfortably enough.  But bosses can't read your mind either and sometimes it is important to let them know your feelings.

Best of luck to you.

RE: Engineer Salary

After a couple of years I though that I was a hotshot too.

Later on I learnt how much of the difficult bit my manager was doing for me.

You will understand when you get to the stage that you are making ALL the decisions for a project from start to finish.

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