Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
(OP)
Hi,
I recently graduated from college with a 2.6 GPA overall. Because of some personal issues, I took an extra semester to finish up college. After getting some professional help, I ended up with a 3.4 GPA in the last year and half of college. I don't think I should put down my GPA because it's lower than a 3, but at the same time, I feel like my resume would be dumped pre-interview. The companies wouldn't get to see that I took care of my problems and did better at the end. In this case, what should I do about my GPA on the resume? Should I put down the 2.6? Or should I not put it down at all? Oh, and I don't even have any internship experience. I honestly wouldn't even want to hire myself if I was the interviewer. Any tips on how to improve my chances of landing a civil engineering job? Thanks for any help!
I recently graduated from college with a 2.6 GPA overall. Because of some personal issues, I took an extra semester to finish up college. After getting some professional help, I ended up with a 3.4 GPA in the last year and half of college. I don't think I should put down my GPA because it's lower than a 3, but at the same time, I feel like my resume would be dumped pre-interview. The companies wouldn't get to see that I took care of my problems and did better at the end. In this case, what should I do about my GPA on the resume? Should I put down the 2.6? Or should I not put it down at all? Oh, and I don't even have any internship experience. I honestly wouldn't even want to hire myself if I was the interviewer. Any tips on how to improve my chances of landing a civil engineering job? Thanks for any help!





RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
My GPA wasn't much better. I never mentinoed it. It never came up.
In my 11 years in the market (2 of which were co-op jobs while in college), only maybe one or two companies asked for a certain GPA on their job ad. I have found that many companies don't care or aren't thorough enough in their screening to even think to ask.
I don't think it should be very important myself.
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
No, you dont need to put the GPA. I had 2.7 gpa for undergrad and 3.6 for my masters. I still didnt put my GPA for my graduate degree because I feel like if I put it, then I have to put my undergrad gpa also. It is really up to you. I betcha a lot of stuff you put on the resume isnt exactly true anyway :) (i.e. previous job responsibilites)
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
The only nice thing is that I ended college decently, in that case, should I put down something like senior year GPA or is that tacky?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Experienced interviewers look for certain qualities such as attitude/confidence which weigh a lot more than GPA.
My advice is don't put it.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Regards!!
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
TTFN
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I would sit for the FE exam...passing should give you some creditability to your resume'. Lucky for you Civil Engineers are in high demand. If all else fails join the Peace Corps for an eye opening experience. Best of luck
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
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o
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RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Good luck!
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services
CAD-Documentation-GD&T-Product Development
www.profileservices.ca
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
his/her class at medical school?
A. Doctor
Don't sweat it. MechNorth has the right idea.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I would like to first generalise a little bit. A speed burner of a wide receiver would tell you his time of 3.7 in the 40 first. A precise route runner of a wide receiver would tell you his precision and guts going over the middle. One is not better than another, they are different.
Now, back to your OP.
You know what your strengths are. The interviewer doesn't yet. Your job is to make sure that the interviewer knows what your strengths are. The interviewer's job is to determine if your strenghts are what the company currently neeeds.
If a company wants a 3.8 GPA candidate to fill a position, then that is what they will look for. Chances are, you won't get the job.
If a company wants an engineer that suits their culture and way of doing work, chances are, they will take a look at you since GPA is not the most important criteria for them. You said you finished your career strong. Good on you. The fact that you finished (graduated) already says something about you.
My advise is to determine what you are good at, and then present that in the interview.
I would like to now get onto my soapbox for a bit:
Yes, GPA is not the be all and end all for determining whether a graduate will become a good engineer. I understand that.
On the other hand, why would I penalise someone who bust their but to get a good GPA? I wouldn't. When I interview, I look at GPA (definitely). I also look at other things such as trends (GPA going up, down, even?), type of courses taken, outside activities (did they hold a part-time job while going to school, are they a parent while going to school, etc.), and of course, their personality.
In my mind, not looking at GPA would be similar to not looking at any one of the above areas I look at - I am not doing a complete job.
Having said that, a weakness in one area may be compensated by strengths in another - it all depends on the position I am hiring for.
In an interview, here are some good rules to go by - there are lots of others:
- highlight your strengths
- be honest about your weakness
- avoid making excuses
The last one is a big red flag raiser for me. If someone makes excuses for something that happened, it seems to me that they are not taking responsibility for their actions. This is not the type of person I am lookig to work with. If it happened, it happened. Tell me how you are going to make sure it doesn't happen again. Telling me why it's not your fault really doesn't tell me how it won't happen again once you start working with me. Tellinn me that it really isn't important just means you still can't do it - and if it is important to me, I won't hire you.
Okay, off the soap box.
Good luck with starting your career, and congrats on graduation.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Emphasize what you have to offer, and how it will benefit the firm if you can work for them.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Sounds like a compensatory attitude on the part of those with lower grades who are now in a position of authority.
Should good students start deliberately getting questions wrong on their exams so as not to be victims of anti-intelligence bigotry?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
This was also during the late 80's when defense spending was being dramatically cut - especially in aerospace. My solution was to get what work I could, take post-bachaloreate classes in graduate level mathematics, and use that along with very high GRE scores to convince the university to let me in their Master's program. I then had to pursue my Master's degree while working full time at a job only vaguely related to what I went to school for. This time around, I did what I had to in order to make sure my GPA was definately *not* mediocre.
Good news is, that did get me into engineering and the experience working in the related job wound up helping me as well.
I realize that may not be the answer you were hoping for, but that's the path I wound up having to follow.
--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
And I doubt it's a compensatory attitude that generates the "GPA Bigotry"; many of us have valid experiences that tend to focus our leanings. As I said above, low GPAs that want the better job will work their way up to it, high GPAs may be able to start there. After 5 years of work, who gives a damn what your GPA was...if you're doing the job well, that's usually what matters. What I have tended to see is a bit of humility and more determination from low-GPAs entering the workforce, and an unfortunate air of entitlement from high GPAs (I did a lot of recruiting and co-op/intern recruiting ... bad days). YES, these are GENERALIZATIONS; I've seen absolutely useless low-GPAs, and absolutely humble high-GPAs. I've seen low-GPAs who really don't know how to put a nut onto a bolt, and high-GPAs who can dissect a machine and reassemble it properly. A GPA may be a step-up when you're starting, but work ethic and determination matter more in the long term.
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services
CAD-Documentation-GD&T-Product Development
www.profileservices.ca
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Fact is, when I interview for entry level positions, I do notice the GPA. I will also notice the grades the last year, or in the major if these are provided.
How much does it matter? While I would probablt prefer to hire a peron with a 3.9, tha facts are:
(a) I probably can't afford those folks;
(b) have a person with common sense and a good work ethic is equally important (probably more),
(c) my GPA many, many years ago was under a 3.0.
Back to basics:
1. Your GPA should be on your resume;
2. The purpose of the resume is to get an interview;
3. If you come across well during the interview, no one will remember your GPA.
Good luck, and keep trying.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
What is most important are the reasons why you have a low gpa... If you have a low gpa because you spent too much time drinking beer, chasing women (I'm assuming you are male), working, or if you had add/hd issues...then you actually may have an edge over the general engineering popluation.
My gpa was aweful.... < 2.5
Since I landed my first job, I've received 2 promotions and have increased my salary by about 30% (all within about 2.5 years)
In today's engineering market, many companies are looking for well balanced people persons as opposed to the traditional "nerds" which have dominated the engineering world for decades.
Big companies are likely to scrap your resume because of your your gpa. Stick with applying to small companies. You'll have to look much harder to find them...but they're out there.
Put your gpa on your resume. DO NOT be ashamed of it. You have have degree signed by the president of the university you attended that states you have met the requirements of the program.
List ALL of your activities and hobbies on you resume. List ALL of your work experience. Employers seeking entry level engineers expect you have ZERO engineering knowledge except for the backbone of what you learned in school. If you graduated....you've got that backbone.
I agree with others that passing the FE will greatly increase you probability of landing a job quickly. If you can pass the FE...then you have the skill set needed to perform the technical aspects of engineering. However, engineering is much much more than technical thinking. That's where you personality and attitude come into play. Keep you chin up, your shoulders back, and be proud of what you have accomplished.....AND (just like you did while in school) keep trying...over and over again if that's what it takes.
I imagine you'll be just fine in the long run....
Sense
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
If during an interview someone asks you about your low gpa. He/she is most likely looking for your reaction and ability to "dance" a little. If he/she/they actually cared about your gpa, you would not be at the interview.
Answers to tough questions like this should be unique to each inidivual. Be truthful. When I was asked....the answer was simple..."If it was raining, I went kayaking on my favorite local river run rather than attend class or study. If it was snowing I ditched class and went skiing." I also working full time while attending college so that factored in also.
I just wish I could ditch work now for the reason above!!!!!
Of course...you may not want to listen to my advice....I just realized it's friday night and I'm typing away on an engineeing forum. I'm going to go get a life now!
Gook Luck!
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Chaos
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
When you send a cover letter with your resume and before any interview find out as much as you can about the company and the industry since this will really help. Make sure you communicate this in the letter or interview. If you can talk knowledgably about their products and/or industry this may help any possible attention from your GPA, not that it would necessarily come up.
FYI I never put my grade (it's done differently in the UK) on my resume or cover letter. A couple of applications for large companies asked for it but it didn't even come up at my first job.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
If your grades really did pick up in the last year or two, you could put the overall GPA, and then the last year's (or upperclass) GPA after it. You'll get a lot of credit for improving. I had to do something like that--I changed majors and my grades really improved, so I listed the overall GPA and then the GPA in just my major. (Though for me it was on grad school applications, not job applications. GPA mandatory there.)
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Don't feel bad about your low GPA. I can't even put one on my resume as I never graduated from college. It's because of my willingness to constantly learn that I've continually moved up. After a few years, experience speaks louder than a degree. That's been my experience anyway.
Exhibit confidence in your skills, a positive attitude and a willingness to learn, and you'll do just fine.
Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2MB RAM, nVidia 2500M
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
If all else fails come to Australia. We wouldnt have a clue what a GPA was anyhow. Plenty of work in Queensland or Western Australia.
Job ads usually read: "Wanted Engineers. Must be hardworking, not a pain in the backside, drinks with mates, willing to learn, will ask dumb questions and learn from the answers, must have sense of humour, helpful if knows rules of cricket or footie preferably both , shouts when it their round at the bar, and will do anything to help the team. Whingers need not apply.
Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
www.waterhammer.bigblog.com.au
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
www.waterhammer.bigblog.com.au
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
But since people with high GPAs have no street smarts, who the hell cares what we think?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Can someone have a low GPA and NO street smarts?
It is sort of like saying if you are smart, then you can't be interested in sports. Or, if you are an athlete, you can't be smart. The two are not related.
HgTX,
I know you've said that your GPA didn't come up in conversation. That wasn't my question. Do you consider GPA important when you interview someone less than 3-5 years out of school (undergrad, not masters or doctorate)?
tokki,
Congrats on getting the interview. Good luck with it.
Why don't you think you will make it pass the initial interview? Have some confidence in yourself - if you don't, chances are no one else would either.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I don't think it's impossible for a high gpa student to have no street smarts, but I think its very rare (maybe 1 out of 10). However for a low gpa student...I think the likelihood of him/her having street smarts is more like 9 out of 10.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Your odds are either ridiculous, or the other 9 people I graduated with have no street smarts. From your earlier post, I would not hire anyone who admitted that he had poor grades because of spending to much time drinking beer. College was about learning to balance your life, work and play, if someone can not figure out that drinking to much is affecting his grades, it does not sound like street smarts to me.
I am curious as Asher was, as to what people with high GPAs think about the importance of GPAs for the first couple years.
I do not feel that GPAs are the tell-tale sign of a good engineer, but the do provide an insight into possible work habits or technical abiility.
For instance, I might think twice about a graduate with a 2.5 GPA. Did he just not get it, which would beg the question, Would I want him to design a process with hazardous chemicals? Or, did he feel that showing up was not that important, which begs the question, Will he show up at work?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Different story, I was just goofing off at first, then got serious. I did not post my GPA on my resume' but took a copy of my transcripts with me on my interviews. One guy asked what my GPA was, and if I had a copy of my transcripts, I offered the transcripts, he looked at it and noted the upward trend in the upper classes. He asked why that was, and I honestly told him I started off goofing off, then got serious.
tokki, if you can look the interviewer in the eye and tell him your situation, you will be fine.
Good Luck,
Remember, they put their pants on the same way you do.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
So would you feel better about hiring someone who lies about why he/she has poor grades? The truth is....anything less than a 4.0 is result of knowingly and purposefully diverting attention away from your academic life. Doesn't matter if its drinkin beer, chasing women, working, video games, drugs, wife, kids, sports, or just plain laziness. Its a choice!!!
I would be scared to death to hire a 3.0 student who said he tried as hard as he could and that was the best he could do. Either a) he is lying, or b) he's just dumb.
However, if someone where to say: "Well, sometimes it was more important to me to spend time with my kids than spend that time doing math", or "it was more important to me to spend time with my wife", or "it was more important to spend time in particpating in sports" etc... etc.. etc... I don't care if someone says he/she spent time playing video games which lead to poor grades. I just like folks to be honest...
Maybe some folks here might even want to explain to his/her boss that some things didn't get done because he/she spent too much time on non-technical fourms on eng-tips!!! Just a thought...
Hey Tokki...Be honest about your gpa and don't make excuses for it. Take responsibility. If a potential employeer wants to hear excuses....then its problably not a company you want to work for. Also, remember that once your out there in the engineering world...only about 1 out of 10 engineers are worth their weight. The other 9 just soak up salaries.
Good luck!
Sense
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Be that as it may, since I was graduating in the early '70's right after the moon landings and lots of taxi drivers were ex NASA Engineers, I interviewed everyone who came to campus.
It was pretty commonly known that Dow Chemical was seeking high GPA students, but I interviewed all of them.
The interviewer made some kind of statement to the effect of "well mr. X, your GPA isn't that high is it?" To which I kind of exploded on him, figuring it was a lost cause anyway and said "you knew my GPA when you agreed to schedule the interview. If you are looking for a high GPA I don't have it. What I do have over these kids that have the better GPA's is a work record and practical experience in power plants and manufacturing plants, etc, etc."
I figured that was one to put in the NO column, and moved on.
Later, upon encountering my Mech Eng. Dept head on campus one day, the conversation turned to interviewing and I pumped him for information as to who might have been interested enough to inquire further. He was evasive, as you might expect him to be, but I persisted. Finally he said "well, one I remember was the guy from Dow, he seemed very interested in you."
So you never know.
I didn't actually get an offer from them, but I will tell you that there were 12 ME's who graduated that quarter (off quarter-not May) and of those 12, I had the lowest GPA and the only job offer in my pocket, and there was a thing raging out there called the Viet Nam War, so you can imagine what the topic of discussion was while we stood in line to walk, as well as the surprise on the part of the others when they discovered that I was moving on to employment.
So, if you have other tricks in your bag, capitalize on them and don't sweat the GPA.
rmw
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
-GPA is a fairly poor indicator of someone's potential as an employee.
-There are many things that affect that potential more (work history, communication skills, attitude, etc).
HOWEVER,
-GPA is one of the few indicators available for companies to sort job applicants (before the interview).
I think it makes some sense for "high profile" companies that receive a lot of applicants to set a minimum GPA, how else are they going to reduce the field to a reasonable level to interview?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
The first 2 years out of school employeers look at GPA.
The next 2 years it's what school you went too
The next 2 years what discipline
And after that, its what you've done and who you are.
Don't worry, you'll do fine. I was a 2.6 GPA'r overall with a 3.2 in my elective and I've done quite well.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
It's a recurring theme in this thread--"Low GPA? Well, at least that means you're not one of those high-GPA people with no street smarts."
TWO bad assumptions in such statements--that anyone with good grades is likely to have only book learning and nothing else (either in engineering "street smarts" or general life skills), and that anyone with crappy grades makes up for that with "street smarts". Both are foolish assumptions.
I can tell you exactly why I have a 4.0 toward my engineering bachelor's degree:
(1) It was a second degree, so all my teenage idiocy was reflect on the OTHER transcript, as were all the non-engineering classes that I wouldn't be able to get A's in.
(2) I made a deliberate and considered choice to go into some debt rather than work a lot during school (once I decided that marrying my housemate just to get in-state tuition rates was taking creative financing just a little too far). I'd made the mistake of putting work over school in my prior academic life and this time I was going to take school as seriously as I possibly could. That said, I still played music in public on a regular basis and had a better social life than I have now as a working stiff. So much for lacking in human skills.
(3) It wasn't that good a school. I wouldn't have had the same grades at, say, MIT where the competition would have been stiffer and I would have been at the mercy of the grade curve rather than setting it myself.
So this 4.0 should count against me why?? I went to school with a couple of idiots who had bad GPAs for good reason. I hate to think that someone interviewing them would think, "Oh, bad GPA, at least he's not one of those no-street-smarts geeks!"
When interviewing for grad schools, I did meet one faculty member who was put off by my high GPA. I won him over, though. (I am SO freaking charming...) The fact that some people are just prejudiced is bad enough; the thought that someone might have tossed my job application on the basis of a too-high GPA, without even giving me the benefit of an interview, is galling.
Back to an interviewer perspective...Would I rather have someone who lies about the stupid reason they got their bad grades? No, I'd rather have someone who didn't make those bad decisions to begin with.
I honestly don't know if I would consider GPA; I don't do any interviewing myself, and none of the hiring I've been witness to has involved people just coming from undergrad so that hasn't been a factor that I've seen in action. I think I'd be more interested in faculty recommendations than raw GPA, but I suspect that's not the kind of thing typically requested from job applicants.
But say for the sake of argument that I would be looking at GPA (maybe HR tells me I have to). I'd be much more willing to accept a lower GPA if, like monkeydog, they can show a trend of improvement. Or if they have some "nobler" reason for lack of concentration on schoolwork--trying to go to school while working full-time, being a primary-care parent, having a new baby, having an extended illness, being active in the military reserves.
Why are those causes of low GPA forgiveable?
(1) Some are temporary, and I wouldn't expect them to reflect on what the person would be like in the long term as an employee.
(2) Some are situations that will definitely have a worse effect on school, which involves a lot of work at home, than they would on work, where the person is relatively isolated at an office and not having to try to simultaneously handle "real life". In a lot of ways, time management gets much easier in the more controlled environment of an office. Being in training on weekends can seriously cut into your study time but won't have too much of an effect on work. Having children underfoot at home when you're trying to study is a problem; having them underfoot when you're done with your workday is not. Etc.
But if you goofed off and continued to goof off right till the very end, and are entirely unapologetic and even proud of it, would I rather have someone who lied about it? No, I don't want either one of you.
So if you gave me the honest response of "Oh, I just preferred playing Ultimate Frisbee and honing my macrame skills to sitting in a classroom," my response would NOT be, "Wow, what a cool honest person with a refreshing appreciation of the roses to be smelled while stopping along the way." It would be, "Okay, convince me why I should believe that you wouldn't also prefer those activities to doing your job for me. Show me how your judgement and priorities have improved."
Actually, your answer to the GPA question should have covered that, and if you didn't think to address such concerns in your initial response, that would be a warning sign right there. I shouldn't have to ask for that clarification.
And this post is now long enough.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Things are done differently in the UK (no extra credit nonsense for starters), but my 2:2 is nowhere near a 4.0. So far I've never had any complaints from an employer and more than a few compliments, my current boss uses me as an example of how high GPA isn’t everything.
However, I’m suitably chastised by the above quote and couple of similar.
The fact I had an illness of several weeks hence missing some exams and then in my last year discovered I had dyslexia are clearly no excuse (and barring the odd self defacing joke I don’t’ use them as one) I should have worked harder and then I would have got a 1st.
To the OP congratulations on the interview. Don’t rule yourself out just because of the GPA, there must have been something on your application that interested them. Find out all you can about the industry/company and do your best. If nothing else it’s interview experience for the next one.
My top interview tip, don’t bring up the fact you once had the pleasure of working with a transsexual thread732-163938 so could handle the odd eccentric scientist OK (still have no idea what part of my brain thought that was a good thing to bring up, must be the low GPA), still got the job though.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I agree, you obviously shouldn't be punished for having a very good GPA.
I wonder:
If student A got a great GPA at an okay school, and student B had an okay GPA at a great school, which would you prefer? (This question is for everyone, not just HgTX).
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I am also dyslexic, although I found out earlier than you.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
That's a really good question. It was actually part of my motivation for keeping the 4.0. A 3.9 at an okay school might be considered equivalant to a 3.2 (or whatever) at a great school, but with a 4.0 they would have no idea how well I could have done.
But what they would know is that I didn't have the education of the great school. I got sneered at by one grad school, even with my 4.0, because my undergrad school wasn't good enough.
I suppose it depends just how great and just how okay the respective GPAs were. In my previous life, I was maintaining a 2.5 or so at a great school without bothering to go to any classes. I worked my butt off for the 4.0 at the okay school--and learned a lot more. So from my perspective, a 2.5 at a great school is NOT worth near as as much a 4.0 at an okay school. Closer comparisons like 3.0 vs. 3.8, who knows?
I bet grad school admission departments have that comparison/conversion down to a science though. Evaluating undergrad GPAs is a big chunk of what they do.
But back to the original question, I agree with others who have said, more or less, that anyone who can show that their grades improved over the course of their education should be able to overcome whatever obstacles their low GPA places in their career path.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
GPA is like everything else in life and career. It means different things to different people. Just like having a PE to some is very important (myself included), or what kind of car you drive, what kind of clothes you wear, what city you live in, what community activites you are involved in etc.. etc...
Everyone sacrifices to have what they want, and everyone places different value on different things.
I'm still thankful for all the days of class I missed while skiiing, kayaking, etc.... I wouldn't trade all that even if it meant me making twice the money I make now. I'm thankful for the work ethic I developed as i choose to sometimes place work over school. Looking back...sure, some decisions where mistakes.
However...in the end...having an extra +0.5 or +1 or +1.5 added to my gpa is simply not worth the sacrifice. My low gpa has had absolutely no negative effect on my career. However, all the skills I developed while guiding rafts, or skiing, or responding to medical emergencies and life threatening situations has helped me a thousand times over within my engineering career.
Now that I'm aging a little, and the hair is greying (and falling out), and while the career is going great...I'm happy to know that ski season is quickly approachig and soon I'll get to drop into some fresh Utah Powder and own it all the way down the hill. The same hills that took that 0.5 or that 1.0 or that 1.5 from my potential 4.0.
I'm healthy, happy, generally fun to work with, and grateful for my life experiences. The lack of points couldn't be sweeter....
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
As a department manager who is in the position of evaluating candidate's resumes and as a former student who did not break a 3.0 overall GPA in 4 1/2 years of engineering school I will give you my thoughts on this topic.
I think when you are looking for your first job out of college you need to emphasize your strong points anyway that you can to get the interview.
When I look at resumes if someone says they have a 4.0 GPA, has the relevant coursework for the position and wants to work for my company, I am going to give that person a call and schedule an interview on the strength of their GPA alone. If I get a resume that doesn't list any GPA but shows challenging coursework, design projects or some Co-op/ internship experience I would most likely schedule the interview. If nothing jumps out at me on the resume or cover letter I have no reason to talk to that person.
Once I have the inteview scheduled it is up to the individual to impress me that I should hire them.
I was once a CE grad with a 2.89 over GPA, little co-op experience and I remember going on a few interviews that went poorly. The interview that landed me my first job was the one that I decide to bring my senior design project with me, a design of a 23 story highrise that my design team assigned me the task of performing all of calculations for the steel and concrete design. I had a great time doing the project and it came through in my interview , I got the job and here I am almost 13 years later.(As a side note it was a friend who worked for the company that got me the interview.)
A good GPA is a great way to get your foot in the door after graduation, a mediocre or poor GPA just means you are going to have to work a little harder to get the interview and show that you have what it takes. You might have to write a cover letter that details your strengths and career interests and coursework or design projects. You have to sell yourself as being a viable candidate for the position.
Congratulations on Graduating & Good Luck!
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I graduated from one of the hardest schools in the country. Sure I should have done better and all, but my grades don't reflect the effort and knowledge I put in. Whereas someone from a not so good school might have gotten the perfect 4.0 but not know a thing. Except grad schools don't care, if you don't have the grades, you're not getting into anything. Companies don't care, if you don't meet their minimum, you're out. So how is that fair? When you don't have the grades, a lot of times that just means you never have a chance to speak for yourself and your grades... I guess I'm just bitter.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
If you want to stick your foot in your mouth I think this is the sentence to do it with. You better be careful who you tell this to especially on an interview, because the person behind the desk might be a person who went to a so called not so good school who got a 4.0 who know more than you do. Last I checked engineering theories are not different from school to school. I came from a city run college who had some prestige alumni who some people would think came from some ivy league.
When I got hired, I worked along with guys from big name engineering colleges doing the same work. Now years later, I have mentored one person who cam from these high priced colleges and mentored somebody from a medium priced and found them to be about the same in knowledge.
I graduated with a 2.95, but I participated in two co ops at national laboratories, and had jobs during the semesters and summer. Once I got hired, I asked one of the guys who hired me what part of my interview stood out, and he said that you had the knowledge and also the drive to work. Work is not full of fun and games; there is the fun stuff and the down right boring stuff. I had experience in both. So they expected that when I started working, I would not be shocked how different work life would be form academia.
I’m going home, have a great holiday! (USA)
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
"truth is....anything less than a 4.0 is result of knowingly and purposefully diverting attention away from your academic life. Doesn't matter if its drinkin beer, chasing women, working, video games, drugs, wife, kids, sports, or just plain laziness. Its a choice!!!"
I'd agree with that whole heartedly. I had a lower GPA and I diverted time to socialising, beer drinking, working etc. I don't think it had a negative impact however except on my GPA. I think I learned many skills by being involved with campus events, clubs, fundraisers etc. I decided that having a 4.0 with no life was going to burn me out. I truly believe I could have achieved a 4.0 but I probably never would have finished engineering because it wouldn't be worth it.
If you got a 4.0 and still were very social in school I'd hire you in a second. Brains and social = perfect. If you worked super hard to get that 4.0 but never went out, didn't socialise well and continue that attitude in your career - (all work no play) I might suspect that you would be great for the company as a worker but you might be a drag to work with as far as team building.
If you got a 2.5 and didn't work hard - I'd probably hire you too - knowing that I'd have to watch to make sure work ethic was there now even though it wasn't in school.
The only one that I'm scared of is the 2.5 GPA who worked his butt off. Probably means he picked the wrong profession.
Good luck tokki, low GPA is just a speed bump not a roadblock.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Personally, I think maintaining a 4 GPA in engineering is quite an achievement in /any/ accredited school, I'd be very careful about knocking those who have achieved it.
FWIW my grades were respectable but not excellent, and I've never mentioned them to employers, so far as I can remember.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
There are "transfer" students from junior colleges or equivalent two years from another university. For the transfer students, I'm just curious whether their exiting GPA is based only on the Upper Division coursework. If this is the case, why would anyone want to enter a reputable university as a freshman?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
I would leave the GPA off the resume. If it isn't something you're proud of then leave it off. Display your positives.
To Greg's comment:
I don't think anyone is knocking anybody who has a 4.0 from a smaller school as this is definitely an achievement, but I would say a 4.0 from a GA Tech, MIT, Cal Tech, Perdue, and a few other schools would mean more to me than a 4.0 from many other smaller or more liberal arts focused schools that happen to have an engineering dept.
The more prominent schools get the best of the best in professors because of the research grants and generally the best of the best in students to fill the classes because of the reputation. This will generally result in better and more in-depth training and more competition between students. This competition will result in a lower GPA across the board.
This is all my biased opinion though. I graduated from one of these "prestigious" schools with a pretty high gpa I worked hard for.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Many top students elect to stay home (cheap rent, mom's cooking, don't want to leave state, girl/boy friend, etc.).
In addition to GPA, I also look at rank (where available). Ranking tells a lot, same as GPA.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Also the prominent schools have the resources for the students to use but one thing that can't be gauged is what a student does with what she/he learns. For example, SAE college design competitions is one venue for students to apply their theoretical and practical knowledge. I went to a California State College and earned a respectable GPA for someone that worked to put myself through college. It's very subjective because to compare student's GPAs from different schools.
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RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Maybe I am deprived of having prominent professors (even though I had fantastic professors who graduated from other engineering colleges from around the country), they all (colleges) still have to put down the same theories and equations on the black board and give exams applying the same theories and equations. And also, having a prestigious professor does not always mean s/he can teach.
I’m not knocking the big colleges but at the same time I’m fascinated that just the name will get you thru doors that other people with degrees could not. This happens with all majors. But the flip side I think is that if you go to a smaller college with less tuition, you will most likely graduate with less to pay towards student loans or have no loans at all. I know people from some big name colleges that have $30k plus in student loans just to have the prestigious name, but after five years of professional experience does it matter?
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
There is another thread in this forum where the poster is trying to determine the best school to go to and the best degree to get.
If it didn't matter, then we wouldn't have the MITs, Harvards and such of the world.
The real question is, does it affect your personal job hunting/retention/execution.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
For the OP, your interviewing skills of how you present your self will be key. Yes your college name will carry you higher, but remember who is behind the desk and don’t get cocky.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
The "Who" can be a direct contact (previous co-worker or boss or internship/co-op) or school related (alumni). I got an interview for a summer job partly because the manager and several engineers came from the university I was attending. He indicated that the company was familiar with what kind of engineer the university produced, liked their practical experience, and knew that students from there wouldn't blow stuff up!
The what you know relates to your work experience, senior projects/designs, internships, co-ops etc.
My advice to students, it to get a job/internship/co-op during school to get the technical and networking experience that will help you succeed.
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
In my case I chose to aim for a 2:1 (second best degree you can get in the UK) rather than a first (the best) but at the same time to be technical director and suspension designer for our Uni's Formula SAE racecar program.
I think the debate about street smarts vs. GPA is true to some extent. The majority of people who got firsts in my year did no practical engineering. To study adequately to achieve a first didn't leave any time for that. I deemed the practical experience worthwhile for my career and accepted the compromise.
I also had the pleasure of working with someone who did just as much for the Formula SAE team and got a first. He was exceptional and is now in Formula 1. He was the exception that proved the rule...
Ben
RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
Go to school overseas and no one in the US will have a clue what your grade means
Of course it wont count toward PE either but....
In the UK while there are 'proper universities' as opposed to old polys I don't recall there being as much of a perceived difference in value/quality between schools certainly not to the point someone would say a 2:2 from a 'proper uni' is worth a 1st from an old Polly.