×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?
15

Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

(OP)
Hi,

I recently graduated from college with a 2.6 GPA overall. Because of some personal issues, I took an extra semester to finish up college. After getting some professional help, I ended up with a 3.4 GPA in the last year and half of college. I don't think I should put down my GPA because it's lower than a 3, but at the same time, I feel like my resume would be dumped pre-interview. The companies wouldn't get to see that I took care of my problems and did better at the end. In this case, what should I do about my GPA on the resume? Should I put down the 2.6? Or should I not put it down at all? Oh, and I don't even have any internship experience. I honestly wouldn't even want to hire myself if I was the interviewer. Any tips on how to improve my chances of landing a civil engineering job? Thanks for any help!

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Don't sell yourself short.
My GPA wasn't much better. I never mentinoed it. It never came up.

In my 11 years in the market (2 of which were co-op jobs while in college), only maybe one or two companies asked for a certain GPA on their job ad. I have found that many companies don't care or aren't thorough enough in their screening to even think to ask.

I don't think it should be very important myself.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

There's a few threads that have come through recently about this.  I would imagine the advice is similar.  Try searching the forum.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

What do you call an engineer graduated last in his/her class?  An Engineer!

No, you dont need to put the GPA.  I had 2.7 gpa for undergrad and 3.6 for my masters.  I still didnt put my GPA for my graduate degree because I feel like if I put it, then I have to put my undergrad gpa also.  It is really up to you.  I betcha a lot of stuff you put on the resume isnt exactly true anyway :) (i.e.  previous job responsibilites)

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Would it work out better for you to put down your overall GPA and then also list your GPA in your major?  

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

(OP)
No it wouldn't. I had some problems with test taking so it was basically most classes that were graded heavily based on tests.

The only nice thing is that I ended college decently, in that case, should I put down something like senior year GPA or is that tacky?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

GPA never came up in any of my previous job interviews.  If it EVER comes up, it will probably only be for the first engineering job out of school.

Experienced interviewers look for certain qualities such as attitude/confidence which weigh a lot more than GPA.

My advice is don't put it.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Try not to get too disappointed I like to remember the saying "success in school doesnt equal success in life"  With that said I wouldn't list my GPA you made it through school and have an engineering degree. If I were you I would be working towards my PE licence that is what really will get someone in industry's attention.  If someone doesn't hire you because of your GPA then they are focusing on the wrong thing. For an entry level position what most interviewers are looking for is an ability and willingness to learn. show those in your interview and you will be well on your way to your first job.  Good luck on the job hunt.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Is up to you, actually I think 2.6 gpa was my overall too. Companies don't care that much as seems to be. Sometimes they have an add requirement 3.0 gpa or above, but actually they don't care, I bet you it's in the interview where they "look" at you and not your GPA. Send resumes and ask for interviews, don't be afraid, the real market/engineering is very faaaaaaaaar away from what college is (at least that is my personal experience) You can be an expert on one area while in college, but how about if you get into a different field? that's the part where GPA stuff is worthless, it is your willingness to perform and learn while on the real job!! Just for your info, some of my best friends in college (they where totally surviving school, praying not to be disqualified from engineering school because of very "trashy" GPA) .....got better jobs than me. :-)
Regards!!

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

GPA has only ever affected ONE interview, with Bell Labs.  They wanted a minimum of 3.5, which I didn't have.

TTFN



RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

When I was hunting for my first job out of college in 1994 the ME market was competitive....GPA was only an issue for companies that use that as a screening tool....HP was the only company I interviewed that had a min requirement.  

I would sit for the FE exam...passing should give you some creditability to your resume'.  Lucky for you Civil Engineers are in high demand.  If all else fails join the Peace Corps for an eye opening experience.  Best of luck

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

There's little value put on GPA except in high-profile companies.  I wasn't a great student, and I was nervous as Hell about it at graduation also.  I graduated in '93, which was a really bad time to be a Mech Eng in North America.  I took whatever job I could get at the time, and proved my abilities.  Nobody ever asked my GPA, only what I could do.  Be aggressive to learn & apply what you know, and your GPA won't ever be an issue.
Good luck!

Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services
CAD-Documentation-GD&T-Product Development
www.profileservices.ca

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Q. What do you call the person who graduates last in
his/her class at medical school?

A. Doctor

Don't sweat it. MechNorth has the right idea.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

tokki,

I would like to first generalise a little bit. A speed burner of a wide receiver would tell you his time of 3.7 in the 40 first. A precise route runner of a wide receiver would tell you his precision and guts going over the middle. One is not better than another, they are different.

Now, back to your OP.

You know what your strengths are. The interviewer doesn't yet. Your job is to make sure that the interviewer knows what your strengths are. The interviewer's job is to determine if your strenghts are what the company currently neeeds.

If a company wants a 3.8 GPA candidate to fill a position, then that is what they will look for. Chances are, you won't get the job.

If a company wants an engineer that suits their culture and way of doing work, chances are, they will take a look at you since GPA is not the most important criteria for them. You said you finished your career strong. Good on you. The fact that you finished (graduated) already says something about you.

My advise is to determine what you are good at, and then present that in the interview.


I would like to now get onto my soapbox for a bit:

Yes, GPA is not the be all and end all for determining whether a graduate will become a good engineer. I understand that.

On the other hand, why would I penalise someone who bust their but to get a good GPA? I wouldn't. When I interview, I look at GPA (definitely). I also look at other things such as trends (GPA going up, down, even?), type of courses taken, outside activities (did they hold a part-time job while going to school, are they a parent while going to school, etc.), and of course, their personality.

In my mind, not looking at GPA would be similar to not looking at any one of the above areas I look at - I am not doing a complete job.

Having said that, a weakness in one area may be compensated by strengths in another - it all depends on the position I am hiring for.

In an interview, here are some good rules to go by - there are lots of others:
- highlight your strengths
- be honest about your weakness
- avoid making excuses

The last one is a big red flag raiser for me. If someone makes excuses for something that happened, it seems to me that they are not taking responsibility for their actions. This is not the type of person I am lookig to work with. If it happened, it happened. Tell me how you are going to make sure it doesn't happen again. Telling me why it's not your fault really doesn't tell me how it won't happen again once you start working with me. Tellinn me that it really isn't important just means you still can't do it - and if it is important to me, I won't hire you.

Okay, off the soap box. soapbox

Good luck with starting your career, and congrats on graduation.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

My GPA wasn't all that great (in fact pretty horrible) - I never put it on the resume and had no issues.  In fact one interviewer asked about it and I told him my GPA and he was happy I wasn't the brainiac type.  He figured that straight A students had no life and therefore were socially inept.  In the end it was my experiences through COOP that landed me my first job.     

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

There are firms that want high GPA, and others that see a 4.0 person as someone who only has book knowledge but no "street smarts".


Emphasize what you have to offer, and how it will benefit the firm if you can work for them.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

4
I never understood the mentality that someone with a 4.0 must surely have ONLY book knowledge and no street smarts.  Or the converse, that crappy grades must mean good street smarts.

Sounds like a compensatory attitude on the part of those with lower grades who are now in a position of authority.

Should good students start deliberately getting questions wrong on their exams so as not to be victims of anti-intelligence bigotry?  

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Well, when I got my bachelors, my GPA wasn't so good either.  People were telling me not to worry because "you got the sheepskin - that's all that matters".  Well, my experience was that GPA *did* matter.  Every interviewer wanted to know what it was.  

This was also during the late 80's when defense spending was being dramatically cut - especially in aerospace.  My solution was to get what work I could, take post-bachaloreate classes in graduate level mathematics, and use that along with very high GRE scores to convince the university to let me in their Master's program.  I then had to pursue my Master's degree while working full time at a job only vaguely related to what I went to school for.  This time around, I did what I had to in order to make sure my GPA was definately *not* mediocre.

Good news is, that did get me into engineering and the experience working in the related job wound up helping me as well.

I realize that may not be the answer you were hoping for, but that's the path I wound up having to follow.

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Some very valid points on the value of a high GPA.  It may be a requisite for the job you want.  For those of us without the high GPA, if we want "that" job, we work our butts off to develop the experience and respect that will get us there.  It's accepted that that is the price we pay.  A point was made above that you should look at the full package, not just the GPA.  If there's no underlying reason for a low GPA, of course you're going to be concerned.  Just as a high GPA without something outside of academia is a bad indicator (ever had a PHD working with a bunch of Technologists ... often a bad social combo).

And I doubt it's a compensatory attitude that generates the "GPA Bigotry"; many of us have valid experiences that tend to focus our leanings.  As I said above, low GPAs that want the better job will work their way up to it, high GPAs may be able to start there.  After 5 years of work, who gives a damn what your GPA was...if you're doing the job well, that's usually what matters.  What I have tended to see is a bit of humility and more determination from low-GPAs entering the workforce, and an unfortunate air of  entitlement from high GPAs (I did a lot of recruiting and co-op/intern recruiting ... bad days).  YES, these are GENERALIZATIONS; I've seen absolutely useless low-GPAs, and absolutely humble high-GPAs.  I've seen low-GPAs who really don't know how to put a nut onto a bolt, and high-GPAs who can dissect a machine and reassemble it properly.  A GPA may be a step-up when you're starting, but work ethic and determination matter more in the long term.  

Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services
CAD-Documentation-GD&T-Product Development
www.profileservices.ca

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Until you have your first position and gain experience AS an engineer, your GPA will be an important part of who you are.  

Fact is,  when I interview for entry level positions, I do notice the GPA.  I will also notice the grades the last year, or in the major if these are provided.  

How much does it matter?   While I would probablt prefer to hire a peron with a 3.9,  tha facts are:
(a)  I probably can't afford those folks;
(b) have a person with common sense and a good work ethic is  equally important (probably more),
(c) my GPA many, many years ago was under a 3.0.  

Back to basics:
1.  Your GPA should be on your resume;
2.  The purpose of the resume is to get an interview;
3.  If you come across well during the interview, no one will remember your GPA.

Good luck,  and keep trying.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

2
DO NOT allow a low gpa to discourage you or make you feel inferior when compared to your peers.

What is most important are the reasons why you have a low gpa... If you have a low gpa because you spent too much time drinking beer, chasing women (I'm assuming you are male), working, or if you had add/hd issues...then you actually may have an edge over the general engineering popluation.

My gpa was aweful.... < 2.5  

Since I landed my first job, I've received 2 promotions and have increased my salary by about 30% (all within about 2.5 years)

In today's engineering market, many companies are looking for well balanced people persons as opposed to the traditional "nerds" which have dominated the engineering world for decades.

Big companies are likely to scrap your resume because of your your gpa.  Stick with applying to small companies.  You'll have to look much harder to find them...but they're out there.  

Put your gpa on your resume.  DO NOT be ashamed of it.  You have have degree signed by the president of the university you attended that states you have met the requirements of the program.  

List ALL of your activities and hobbies on you resume.  List ALL of your work experience.  Employers seeking entry level engineers expect you have ZERO engineering knowledge except for the backbone of what you learned in school.  If you graduated....you've got that backbone.  

I agree with others that passing the FE will greatly increase you probability of landing a job quickly.  If you can pass the FE...then you have the skill set needed to perform the technical aspects of engineering.  However, engineering is much much more than technical thinking.  That's where you personality and attitude come into play.  Keep you chin up, your shoulders back, and be proud of what you have accomplished.....AND (just like you did while in school) keep trying...over and over again if that's what it takes.

I imagine you'll be just fine in the long run....


Sense

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

One more thing...

If during an interview someone asks you about your low gpa.  He/she is most likely looking for your reaction and ability to "dance" a little.  If he/she/they actually cared about your gpa, you would not be at the interview.

Answers to tough questions like this should be unique to each inidivual.  Be truthful.  When I was asked....the answer was simple..."If it was raining, I went kayaking on my favorite local river run rather than attend class or study.  If it was snowing I ditched class and went skiing."  I also working full time while attending college so that factored in also.

I just wish I could ditch work now for the reason above!!!!!

Of course...you may not want to listen to my advice....I just realized it's friday night and I'm typing away on an engineeing forum.  I'm going to go get a life now!

Gook Luck!





RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I agree 100% with Senseless ticker.  Being well balanced and having good social skills have affected my ability to get a job, and more importantly, the money I make, much more than my GPA.  When you do interview, just be confident in your abilities.

Chaos

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

But good GPA does get you a job.  I have a friend that graduated in 3.5 years with 3.7 gpa from the same university as my self.  Good GPA does the trick but if you dont have a good gpa doesnt mean you cant find a good job.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I don't know the GPAs of anyone that I work with, but I have had to work with people with lackluster communication skills, and no people skills.  Those skills are important - try to demonstrate those skills if you can.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Not so much on your resume but...

When you send a cover letter with your resume and before any interview find out as much as you can about the company and the industry since this will really help.  Make sure you communicate this in the letter or interview.  If you can talk knowledgably about their products and/or industry this may help any possible attention from your GPA, not that it would necessarily come up.

FYI I never put my grade (it's done differently in the UK) on my resume or cover letter.  A couple of applications for large companies asked for it but it didn't even come up at my first job.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I can't fathom someone actually going for the "I preferred skiing to going to class" defense.  I'd have to assume that this person would also prefer skiing to showing up to the job or making it to a meeting with a client.  I mean, that kind of statement doesn't say, "I'm a well-balanced person with good people skills"--it says, "I have no work ethic and very bad judgement."

If your grades really did pick up in the last year or two, you could put the overall GPA, and then the last year's (or upperclass) GPA after it.  You'll get a lot of credit for improving.  I had to do something like that--I changed majors and my grades really improved, so I listed the overall GPA and then the GPA in just my major.  (Though for me it was on grad school applications, not job applications.  GPA mandatory there.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Your biggest hurdle, in my opinion, is going to be lack of experience. You can overcome that by talking about how eager you are to learn all that you can. As was mentioned previously, learn all that you can about the company that you're interviewing with. Make sure you ask them insightful questions about the position, the direction of the division/company and their expectations of the candidate.
Don't feel bad about your low GPA. I can't even put one on my resume as I never graduated from college. It's because of my willingness to constantly learn that I've continually moved up. After a few years, experience speaks louder than a degree. That's been my experience anyway.
Exhibit confidence in your skills, a positive attitude and a willingness to learn, and you'll do just fine.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP1.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2MB RAM, nVidia 2500M
http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

2
Most jobs come from networking or personnel references. Get out and network. Dont worry about the GPA or explaining yourself. Look forward.

If all else fails come to Australia. We wouldnt have a clue what a GPA was anyhow. Plenty of work in Queensland or Western Australia.

Job ads usually read: "Wanted Engineers. Must be hardworking, not a pain in the backside, drinks with mates, willing to learn, will ask dumb questions and learn from the answers, must have  sense of humour, helpful if knows rules of cricket or footie preferably both  , shouts when it their round at the bar, and will do anything to help the team. Whingers need not apply.

Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
www.waterhammer.bigblog.com.au

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

What doeas GPA stand for anyhow?

Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEAust CP Eng
www.waterhammer.bigblog.com.au

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

GPA - Grade Point Average.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Just curious. How many people with a great GPA (say, better than 3.8) thinks that GPA is NOT important for the first 3-5 years out of school?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Me.  My undergrad GPA met Ashereng's condition, and when I was hired after my master's degree I don't remember either grad or undergrad GPA ever coming up in conversation.  Having the master's degree itself was a factor because I was recruited to my job directly from school.

But since people with high GPAs have no street smarts, who the hell cares what we think?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

(OP)
I didn't put down my GPA like many of you suggested, and today I got an interview from a high-profile company! I guess I won't make it past the initial interview but at least I got an interview, that's always the first step. I'm so excited. Thank you for all your responses!

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I still don't understand why high GPA = no stree smarts.

Can someone have a low GPA and NO street smarts?

It is sort of like saying if you are smart, then you can't be interested in sports. Or, if you are an athlete, you can't be smart. The two are not related.


HgTX,

I know you've said that your GPA didn't come up in conversation. That wasn't my question. Do you consider GPA important when you interview someone less than 3-5 years out of school (undergrad, not masters or doctorate)?


tokki,

Congrats on getting the interview. Good luck with it.

Why don't you think you will make it pass the initial interview? Have some confidence in yourself - if you don't, chances are no one else would either.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Quote (Ashereng):


I still don't understand why high GPA = no stree smarts.

Can someone have a low GPA and NO street smarts?

I don't think it's impossible for a high gpa student to have no street smarts, but I think its very rare (maybe 1 out of 10). However for a low gpa student...I think the likelihood of him/her having street smarts is more like 9 out of 10.








RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Senseless,

Your odds are either ridiculous, or the other 9 people I graduated with have no street smarts.  From your earlier post, I would not hire anyone who admitted that he had poor grades because of spending to much time drinking beer.  College was about learning to balance your life, work and play, if someone can not figure out that drinking to much is affecting his grades, it does not sound like street smarts to me.

I am curious as Asher was, as to what people with high GPAs think about the importance of GPAs for the first couple years.

I do not feel that GPAs are the tell-tale sign of a good engineer, but the do provide an insight into possible work habits or technical abiility.

For instance, I might think twice about a graduate with a 2.5 GPA.  Did he just not get it, which would beg the question, Would I want him to design a process with hazardous chemicals?  Or, did he feel that showing up was not that important, which begs the question, Will he show up at work?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

My GPA was not that great, similar to tokki's trend.
Different story, I was just goofing off at first, then got serious.  I did not post my GPA on my resume' but took a copy of my transcripts with me on my interviews.  One guy asked what my GPA was, and if I had a copy of my transcripts, I offered the transcripts, he looked at it and noted the upward trend in the upper classes.  He asked why that was, and I honestly told him I started off goofing off, then got serious.

tokki, if you can look the interviewer in the eye and tell him your situation, you will be fine.

Good Luck,
Remember, they put their pants on the same way you do.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

UNLengineer,

So would you feel better about hiring someone who lies about why he/she has poor grades?  The truth is....anything less than a 4.0 is result of knowingly and purposefully diverting attention away from your academic life.  Doesn't matter if its drinkin beer, chasing women, working, video games, drugs, wife, kids, sports, or just plain laziness.  Its a choice!!!

I would be scared to death to hire a 3.0 student who said he tried as hard as he could and that was the best he could do.  Either a) he is lying, or b) he's just dumb.

However, if someone where to say: "Well, sometimes it was more important to me to spend time with my kids than spend that time doing math", or "it was more important to me to spend time with my wife", or "it was more important to spend time in particpating in sports" etc... etc.. etc... I don't care if someone says he/she spent time playing video games which lead to poor grades.  I just like folks to be honest...


Maybe some folks here might even want to explain to his/her boss that some things didn't get done because he/she spent too much time on non-technical fourms on eng-tips!!!  Just a thought...

Hey Tokki...Be honest about your gpa and don't make excuses for it.  Take responsibility.  If a potential employeer wants to hear excuses....then its problably not a company you want to work for. Also, remember that once your out there in the engineering world...only about 1 out of 10 engineers are worth their weight.  The other 9 just soak up salaries.  

Good luck!

Sense


RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I, too, didn't have the best GPA, a combination of working my way through 100%, taking time out for the USN, and just some good old goofing off.

Be that as it may, since I was graduating in the early '70's right after the moon landings and lots of taxi drivers were ex NASA Engineers, I interviewed everyone who came to campus.  

It was pretty commonly known that Dow Chemical was seeking high GPA students, but I interviewed all of them.

The interviewer made some kind of statement to the effect of "well mr. X, your GPA isn't that high is it?"  To which I kind of exploded on him, figuring it was a lost cause anyway and said "you knew my GPA when you agreed to schedule the interview.  If you are looking for a high GPA I don't have it.  What I do have over these kids that have the better GPA's is a work record and practical experience in power plants and manufacturing plants, etc, etc."

I figured that was one to put in the NO column, and moved on.

Later, upon encountering my Mech Eng. Dept head on campus one day, the conversation turned to interviewing and I pumped him for information as to who might have been interested enough to inquire further.  He was evasive, as you might expect him to be, but I persisted.  Finally he said "well, one I remember was the guy from Dow, he seemed very interested in you."

So you never know.

I didn't actually get an offer from them, but I will tell you that there were 12 ME's who graduated that quarter (off quarter-not May) and of those 12, I had the lowest GPA and the only job offer in my pocket, and there was a thing raging out there called the Viet Nam War, so you can imagine what the topic of discussion was while we stood in line to walk, as well as the surprise on the part of the others when they discovered that I was moving on to employment.

So, if you have other tricks in your bag, capitalize on them and don't sweat the GPA.

rmw

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

My two cents,

-GPA is a fairly poor indicator of someone's potential as an employee.
-There are many things that affect that potential more (work history, communication skills, attitude, etc).

HOWEVER,

-GPA is one of the few indicators available for companies to sort job applicants (before the interview).

I think it makes some sense for "high profile" companies that receive a lot of applicants to set a minimum GPA, how else are they going to reduce the field to a reasonable level to interview?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I was taught the following 30 years ago and I believe it.

The first 2 years out of school employeers look at GPA.

The next 2 years it's what school you went too

The next 2 years what discipline

And after that, its what you've done and who you are.

Don't worry, you'll do fine. I was a 2.6 GPA'r overall with a 3.2 in my elective and I've done quite well.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Ashereng wondered, "I still don't understand why high GPA = no street smarts."

It's a recurring theme in this thread--"Low GPA?  Well, at least that means you're not one of those high-GPA people with no street smarts."

TWO bad assumptions in such statements--that anyone with good grades is likely to have only book learning and nothing else (either in engineering "street smarts" or general life skills), and that anyone with crappy grades makes up for that with "street smarts".  Both are foolish assumptions.

I can tell you exactly why I have a 4.0 toward my engineering bachelor's degree:  
(1) It was a second degree, so all my teenage idiocy was reflect on the OTHER transcript, as were all the non-engineering classes that I wouldn't be able to get A's in.
(2) I made a deliberate and considered choice to go into some debt rather than work a lot during school (once I decided that marrying my housemate just to get in-state tuition rates was taking creative financing just a little too far).  I'd made the mistake of putting work over school in my prior academic life and this time I was going to take school as seriously as I possibly could.  That said, I still played music in public on a regular basis and had a better social life than I have now as a working stiff.  So much for lacking in human skills.
(3) It wasn't that good a school.  I wouldn't have had the same grades at, say, MIT where the competition would have been stiffer and I would have been at the mercy of the grade curve rather than setting it myself.

So this 4.0 should count against me why??  I went to school with a couple of idiots who had bad GPAs for good reason.  I hate to think that someone interviewing them would think, "Oh, bad GPA, at least he's not one of those no-street-smarts geeks!"

When interviewing for grad schools, I did meet one faculty member who was put off by my high GPA.  I won him over, though.  (I am SO freaking charming...)  The fact that some people are just prejudiced is bad enough; the thought that someone might have tossed my job application on the basis of a too-high GPA, without even giving me the benefit of an interview, is galling.


Back to an interviewer perspective...Would I rather have someone who lies about the stupid reason they got their bad grades?  No, I'd rather have someone who didn't make those bad decisions to begin with.  

I honestly don't know if I would consider GPA; I don't do any interviewing myself, and none of the hiring I've been witness to has involved people just coming from undergrad so that hasn't been a factor that I've seen in action.  I think I'd be more interested in faculty recommendations than raw GPA, but I suspect that's not the kind of thing typically requested from job applicants.

But say for the sake of argument that I would be looking at GPA (maybe HR tells me I have to).  I'd be much more willing to accept a lower GPA if, like monkeydog, they can show a trend of improvement.  Or if they have some "nobler" reason for lack of concentration on schoolwork--trying to go to school while working full-time, being a primary-care parent, having a new baby, having an extended illness, being active in the military reserves.  

Why are those causes of low GPA forgiveable?  
(1) Some are temporary, and I wouldn't expect them to reflect on what the person would be like in the long term as an employee.  
(2) Some are situations that will definitely have a worse effect on school, which involves a lot of work at home, than they would on work, where the person is relatively isolated at an office and not having to try to simultaneously handle "real life".  In a lot of ways, time management gets much easier in the more controlled environment of an office.  Being in training on weekends can seriously cut into your study time but won't have too much of an effect on work.  Having children underfoot at home when you're trying to study is a problem; having them underfoot when you're done with your workday is not.  Etc.

But if you goofed off and continued to goof off right till the very end, and are entirely unapologetic and even proud of it, would I rather have someone who lied about it?  No, I don't want either one of you.

So if you gave me the honest response of "Oh, I just preferred playing Ultimate Frisbee and honing my macrame skills to sitting in a classroom," my response would NOT be, "Wow, what a cool honest person with a refreshing appreciation of the roses to be smelled while stopping along the way."  It would be, "Okay, convince me why I should believe that you wouldn't also prefer those activities to doing your job for me.  Show me how your judgement and priorities have improved."

Actually, your answer to the GPA question should have covered that, and if you didn't think to address such concerns in your initial response, that would be a warning sign right there.  I shouldn't have to ask for that clarification.

And this post is now long enough.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Very nicely said HG

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Indeed, well said Hg.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Quote:

....anything less than a 4.0 is result of knowingly and purposefully diverting attention away from your academic life

Things are done differently in the UK (no extra credit nonsense for starters), but my 2:2 is nowhere near a 4.0.  So far I've never had any complaints from an employer and more than a few compliments, my current boss uses me as an example of how high GPA isn’t everything.

However, I’m suitably chastised by the above quote and couple of similar.

The fact I had an illness of several weeks hence missing some exams and then in my last year discovered I had dyslexia are clearly no excuse (and barring the odd self defacing joke I don’t’ use them as one) I should have worked harder and then I would have got a 1st.

To the OP congratulations on the interview.  Don’t rule yourself out just because of the GPA, there must have been something on your application that interested them.  Find out all you can about the industry/company and do your best.  If nothing else it’s interview experience for the next one.  

My top interview tip, don’t bring up the fact you once had the pleasure of working with a transsexual thread732-163938 so could handle the odd eccentric scientist OK (still have no idea what part of my brain thought that was a good thing to bring up, must be the low GPA), still got the job though.


RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

HgTx

I agree, you obviously shouldn't be punished for having a very good GPA.

I wonder:

If student A got a great GPA at an okay school, and student B had an okay GPA at a great school, which would you prefer?  (This question is for everyone, not just HgTX).



RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

KENAT,

I am also dyslexic, although I found out earlier than you.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

"If student A got a great GPA at an okay school, and student B had an okay GPA at a great school, which would you prefer?"

That's a really good question.  It was actually part of my motivation for keeping the 4.0.  A 3.9 at an okay school might be considered equivalant to a 3.2 (or whatever) at a great school, but with a 4.0 they would have no idea how well I could have done.

But what they would know is that I didn't have the education of the great school.  I got sneered at by one grad school, even with my 4.0, because my undergrad school wasn't good enough.

I suppose it depends just how great and just how okay the respective GPAs were.  In my previous life, I was maintaining a 2.5 or so at a great school without bothering to go to any classes.  I worked my butt off for the 4.0 at the okay school--and learned a lot more.  So from my perspective, a 2.5 at a great school is NOT worth near as as much a 4.0 at an okay school.  Closer comparisons like 3.0 vs. 3.8, who knows?

I bet grad school admission departments have that comparison/conversion down to a science though.  Evaluating undergrad GPAs is a big chunk of what they do.

But back to the original question, I agree with others who have said, more or less, that anyone who can show that their grades improved over the course of their education should be able to overcome whatever obstacles their low GPA places in their career path.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I hate to beat a dead horse, but have to chime in one more time....

GPA is like everything else in life and career.  It means different things to different people.  Just like having a PE to some is very important (myself included), or what kind of car you drive, what kind of clothes you wear, what city you live in, what community activites you are involved in etc..  etc...

Everyone sacrifices to have what they want, and everyone places different value on different things.

I'm still thankful for all the days of class I missed while skiiing, kayaking, etc....  I wouldn't trade all that even if it meant me making twice the money I make now.  I'm thankful for the work ethic I developed as i choose to sometimes place work over school.  Looking back...sure, some decisions where mistakes.

However...in the end...having an extra +0.5 or +1 or +1.5 added to my gpa is simply not worth the sacrifice.  My low gpa has had absolutely no negative effect on my career.  However, all the skills I developed while guiding rafts, or skiing, or responding to medical emergencies and life threatening situations has helped me a thousand times over within my engineering career.  

Now that I'm aging a little, and the hair is greying (and falling out), and while the career is going great...I'm happy to know that ski season is quickly approachig and soon I'll get to drop into some fresh Utah Powder and own it all the way down the hill.  The same hills that took that 0.5 or that 1.0 or that 1.5 from my potential 4.0.  

I'm healthy, happy, generally fun to work with, and grateful for my life experiences.  The lack of points couldn't be sweeter....


RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

tokki

As a department manager who is in the position of evaluating candidate's resumes and as a former student who did not break a 3.0 overall GPA in 4 1/2 years of engineering school I will give you my thoughts on this topic.

I think when you are looking for your first job out of college you need to emphasize your strong points anyway that you can to get the interview.

When I look at resumes if someone says they have a 4.0 GPA, has the relevant coursework for the position and wants to work for my company, I am going to give that person a call and schedule an interview on the strength of their GPA alone. If I get a resume that doesn't list any GPA but shows challenging coursework, design projects or  some Co-op/ internship experience I would most likely schedule the interview. If nothing jumps out at me on the resume or cover letter I have no reason to talk to that person.

Once I have the inteview scheduled it is up to the individual to impress me that I should hire them.

I was once a CE grad with a 2.89 over GPA, little co-op experience and I remember going on a few interviews that went poorly. The interview that landed me my first job was the one that I decide to bring my senior design project with me, a design of a 23 story highrise that my design team assigned me the task of performing all of calculations for the steel and concrete design. I had a great time doing the project and it came through in my interview , I got the job and here I am almost 13 years later.(As a side note it was a friend who worked for the company that got me the interview.)

A good GPA is a great way to get your foot in the door after graduation, a mediocre or poor GPA just means you are going to have to work a little harder to get the interview and show that you have what it takes. You might have to write a cover letter that details your strengths and career interests and coursework or design projects. You have to sell yourself as being a viable candidate for the position.

Congratulations on Graduating & Good Luck!

 

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

(OP)
I probably am not in the position to say this, but I think where you go to school does make a world's difference. Of course there are people who end up doing very well at either school, but for some of us, that's just not the case.

I graduated from one of the hardest schools in the country. Sure I should have done better and all, but my grades don't reflect the effort and knowledge I put in. Whereas someone from a not so good school might have gotten the perfect 4.0 but not know a thing. Except grad schools don't care, if you don't have the grades, you're not getting into anything. Companies don't care, if you don't meet their minimum, you're out. So how is that fair? When you don't have the grades, a lot of times that just means you never have a chance to speak for yourself and your grades... I guess I'm just bitter.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

“I graduated from one of the hardest schools in the country. Sure I should have done better and all, but my grades don't reflect the effort and knowledge I put in. Whereas someone from a not so good school might have gotten the perfect 4.0 but not know a thing.”


If you want to stick your foot in your mouth I think this is the sentence to do it with.  You better be careful who you tell this to especially on an interview, because the person behind the desk might be a person who went to a so called not so good school who got a 4.0 who know more than you do.  Last I checked engineering theories are not different from school to school.  I came from a city run college who had some prestige alumni who some people would think came from some ivy league.  

When I got hired, I worked along with guys from big name engineering colleges doing the same work.  Now years later, I have mentored one person who cam from these high priced colleges and mentored somebody from a medium priced and found them to be about the same in knowledge.

I graduated with a 2.95, but I participated in two co ops at national laboratories, and had jobs during the semesters and summer.  Once I got hired, I asked one of the guys who hired me what part of my interview stood out, and he said that you had the knowledge and also the drive to work.  Work is not full of fun and games; there is the fun stuff and the down right boring stuff.  I had experience in both.  So they expected that when I started working, I would not be shocked how different work life would be form academia.

I’m going home, have a great holiday! (USA)

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Tokki could have worded a bit better but there is some truth to it, in my opinion.  Sure the coursework and engineering theory don't differ much from school to school but students in reputable schools face much tougher competition.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Senseless wrote

"truth is....anything less than a 4.0 is result of knowingly and purposefully diverting attention away from your academic life.  Doesn't matter if its drinkin beer, chasing women, working, video games, drugs, wife, kids, sports, or just plain laziness.  Its a choice!!!"

I'd agree with that whole heartedly.  I had a lower GPA and I diverted time to socialising, beer drinking, working etc.  I don't think it had a negative impact however except on my GPA.  I think I learned many skills by being involved with campus events, clubs, fundraisers etc.  I decided that having a 4.0 with no life was going to burn me out.  I truly believe I could have achieved a 4.0 but I probably never would have finished engineering because it wouldn't be worth it.

If you got a 4.0 and still were very social in school I'd hire you in a second.  Brains and social = perfect.  If you worked super hard to get that 4.0 but never went out, didn't socialise well and continue that attitude in your career - (all work no play) I might suspect that you would be great for the company as a worker but you might be a drag to work with as far as team building.

If you got a 2.5 and didn't work hard  - I'd probably hire you too - knowing that I'd have to watch to make sure work ethic was there now even though it wasn't in school.

The only one that I'm scared of is the 2.5 GPA who worked his butt off.  Probably means he picked the wrong profession.  

Good luck tokki,  low GPA is just a speed bump not a roadblock.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

So, why pick a hard school then? It seems to me you want it both ways, the reputation of a hard school,and the high GPA of an 'easier' school.

Personally, I think maintaining a 4 GPA in engineering is quite an achievement in /any/ accredited school, I'd be very careful about knocking those who have achieved it.

FWIW my grades were respectable but not excellent, and I've never mentioned them to employers, so far as I can remember.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Lower Division classes during the first two years of university typically yield lower grade point average compared to the upper division (based on my own experience as well as many of my college friends).

There are "transfer" students from junior colleges or equivalent two years from another university.  For the transfer students, I'm just curious whether their exiting GPA is based only on the Upper Division coursework.  If this is the case, why would anyone want to enter a reputable university as a freshman?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

To opine on the original question:  

I would leave the GPA off the resume.  If it isn't something you're proud of then leave it off.  Display your positives.   

To Greg's comment:  

I don't think anyone is knocking anybody who has a 4.0 from a smaller school as this is definitely an achievement, but I would say a 4.0 from a GA Tech, MIT, Cal Tech, Perdue, and a few other schools would mean more to me than a 4.0 from many other smaller or more liberal arts focused schools that happen to have an engineering dept.  

The more prominent schools get the best of the best in professors because of the research grants and generally the best of the best in students to fill the classes because of the reputation.  This will generally result in better and more in-depth training and more competition between students.  This competition will result in a lower GPA across the board.

This is all my biased opinion though.  I graduated from one of these "prestigious" schools with a pretty high gpa I worked hard for.  

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

In my opinion, the top 5 students (in rank) at MIT, Cal Tech, Purdue, etc. is every bit as good as the top 5 from Central OK State, Universit of this and that.

Many top students elect to stay home (cheap rent, mom's cooking, don't want to leave state, girl/boy friend, etc.).

In addition to GPA, I also look at rank (where available). Ranking tells a lot, same as GPA.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Quote:

The more prominent schools get the best of the best in professors because of the research grants and generally the best of the best in students to fill the classes because of the reputation.  This will generally result in better and more in-depth training and more competition between students.  This competition will result in a lower GPA across the board.

Also the prominent schools have the resources for the students to use but one thing that can't be gauged is what a student does with what she/he learns.  For example, SAE college design competitions is one venue for students to apply their theoretical and practical knowledge.  I went to a California State College and earned a respectable GPA for someone that worked to put myself through college.  It's very subjective because to compare student's GPAs from different schools.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

“The more prominent schools get the best of the best in professors because of the research grants and generally the best of the best in students to fill the classes because of the reputation.  This will generally result in better and more in-depth training and more competition between students”

Maybe I am deprived of having prominent professors (even though I had fantastic professors who graduated from other engineering colleges from around the country), they all (colleges) still have to put down the same theories and equations on the black board and give exams applying the same theories and equations.  And also, having a prestigious professor does not always mean s/he can teach.  

I’m not knocking the big colleges but at the same time I’m fascinated that just the name will get you thru doors that other people with degrees could not.  This happens with all majors.  But the flip side I think is that if you go to a smaller college with less tuition, you will most likely graduate with less to pay towards student loans or have no loans at all.  I know people from some big name colleges that have $30k plus in student loans just to have the prestigious name, but after five years of professional experience does it matter?

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Yes, it does matter. To a lot of people.

There is another thread in this forum where the poster is trying to determine the best school to go to and the best degree to get.

If it didn't matter, then we wouldn't have the MITs, Harvards and such of the world.

The real question is, does it affect your personal job hunting/retention/execution.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I even put my fraternity under organization/activity just to show them I did have fun in college hahah.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I kind of don’t think it doesn’t after five years of professional experience.  I mean if I look at all of the analysis people and even upper managers and directors, their not all from MIT or Harvard or big prestigious schools.  Most are from local universities and many are from state and city schools.  I would guess there is a good mix of alumni, but one does not dominate more than the other.  The same at my level of Senior Mech Engr(and there are 100 plus just under my department and this not including  the Jr Mech Engr).  

For the OP, your interviewing skills of how you present your self will be key.  Yes your college name will carry you higher, but remember who is behind the desk and don’t get cocky.  

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

As far as getting your foot in the door, in my experience it's been about "Who" you know rather than "What" you know.

The "Who" can be a direct contact (previous co-worker or boss or internship/co-op) or school related (alumni).  I got an interview for a summer job partly because the manager and several engineers came from the university I was attending.  He indicated that the company was familiar with what kind of engineer the university produced, liked their practical experience, and knew that students from there wouldn't blow stuff up!

The what you know relates to your work experience, senior projects/designs, internships, co-ops etc.

My advice to students, it to get a job/internship/co-op during school to get the technical and networking experience that will help you succeed.

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

I agree wiht Tobalcane.  I don't think it matters nearly as much after a few years of experience which school you went to, but I do think your GPA, school you went to, comunication/interviewing skills, experience, etc. does matter in the initial job hunt.  

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

My take on the GPA debate is related to other engineering activities undertaken.

In my case I chose to aim for a 2:1 (second best degree you can get in the UK) rather than a first (the best) but at the same time to be technical director and suspension designer for our Uni's Formula SAE racecar program.

I think the debate about street smarts vs. GPA is true to some extent. The majority of people who got firsts in my year did no practical engineering. To study adequately to achieve a first didn't leave any time for that. I deemed the practical experience worthwhile for my career and accepted the compromise.

I also had the pleasure of working with someone who did just as much for the Formula SAE team and got a first. He was exceptional and is now in Formula 1. He was the exception that proved the rule...

Ben

RE: Recent graduate with poor GPA, what do I do about my resume?

Solution:

Go to school overseas and no one in the US will have a clue what your grade meanswinky smile

Of course it wont count toward PE either but....

In the UK while there are 'proper universities' as opposed to old polys I don't recall there being as much of a perceived difference in value/quality between schools certainly not to the point someone would say a 2:2 from a 'proper uni' is worth a 1st from an old Polly.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources