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Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?
5

Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

(OP)
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm researching the idea of upgrading from a 2d version of AutoCAD (2004 with LDD) to a 3d version for use in the site design/ land develoment field.  Is 3d the way of the future?  Will companies that do not upgrade to 3d be left in the dust?  Will the companies that use 3d effectively create a superior product?  Thanks!

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?


"Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?" ... No.

"Will AutoCAD 3D change civil engineering?" ... No more than than any other 3D civil engineering package.

"Is 3D the way of the future?" ... Yes.
.
"Will companies that do not upgrade to 3d be left in the dust?" ... Probably not for quite a while yet, but eventually, yes.

"Will the companies that use 3d,  effectively create a superior product?" ... Not necessarily.

"Will the companies that use 3d effectively,  create a superior product?" ... Quite likely.

cheers
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to find answers ... FAQ559-1091

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Just make sure you understand your terminology.

AutoCAD has been 3D-capable since at least version 9, and likely before that.

It's also been solids- and surface-capable since at least version 14.

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RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Autocad 3D??

I don't think Autocad 3D will change engineering, other 3D software already did...

IJsbrand.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

It may send the world of engineering back into the days of drafting departments and drafters. After all, engineers can't be expected to work on all that fancy software when there's business development to be done...

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

I believe that 3D is definitely the way of the future. Here's a similar example: 10 years ago, most video games were 2D, now all video games are 3D. If your company is going to put out a 2D game today, the rate of successful is minimal. This is a world of 3D now. That's just how I feel about this situation.

rnip

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

There are already lots of 3D packages out there, some specific to drafting others to engineering design.  There is no doubt that 3D is useful but I doubt it will a life changer for your company.  

A lot of work that civil engineers do can be completed as effectively with 2D tools.  And for anything other than really complicated designs 2D is fine.  You may find the additional benefit of doing all your work in 3D may be limited.  For really complex designs though it is a real help but if your company does a lot of house extensions it might not prove very cost effective.

We use Autocad Inventor at my work and there is no doubt it has its uses, but the majority of our drawings are still just 2D.  That said our Norwegian Office does everything in 3D regardless.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

3D's a tool, no different than any other tool.  It has appropriate and inappropriate uses. I don't do a CAD drawing when a pencil sketch will suffice, and I don't build a 3D model when a to-scale 2D sketch will do.  Regardless how good the software becomes, it's still quicker to use the tool appropriate to the task rather than one more sophisicated than required.

All models are garbage in, garbage out.  But the results, whether they be a process simulation or a 3D plant model, give the observer a false sense of reality- the exact same way that a digital display gives people a false sense that the result is more precise than a vernier scale etc.  It takes a finely honed skepticism based on experience to overwhelm the brain's tendency to turn "seeing" into "believing". 3D models combined with inexperienced observers can easily equal disaster.  

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

I do believe that there are some fields that will not benefit from 3D drawings as much. Civil Engineering is one of those fields because I would not expect to see a building layout in 3D, nor would I expect to see piping layout in 3D. However, I have seen 3D building layouts, and they are impressive, but not needed yet.

However, if you are say in Mechanical, than I do expect to see most of the drawings in 3D on a computer. I want to be able to see everything about parts, not just certain angles. There is a lot of details in parts and if I am looking for a certain area of the part. It is much easier for me to rotate the part to see what I'm looking for inside of trying to find it through pages of 2D drawings.


rnip

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

3D has already changed the mechanical world, starting around 20 years ago.  I agree with the others here that it may not be of as much value in the civil field, at least not until computers are MUCH more powerful, enough to capture ALL of the needed detail of a construction project.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

oops...I rushed it.

I do believe that there are some fields that will not benefit from 3D drawings as much. Civil Engineering is one of those fields because I would not expect to see a building layout in 3D, nor would I expect to see piping layout in 3D. However, I have seen 3D building layouts, and they are impressive, but not needed yet.

However, if you are say in Mechanical, than I do expect to see most of the drawings in 3D on a computer. I want to be able to see everything about parts, not just certain angles. There are** a lot of details in parts and if I am looking for a certain area of the part. It is much easier for me to rotate the part to see what I'm looking for instead** of trying to find it through pages of 2D drawings.


rnip

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

I agree with most of the above, it depends largely on the industry and product.

The more solid models are used the more useful they become, be that for simulation, machining, inspection or whatever.

I fail to see any advantage in 3D over 2D for say a simple shaft; an aeroplane wing is completely different.

Some things are better in 2D I can see no use what so ever in having for example the national grind modelled size, but 2D drawings representing key features obviously do have a use.

My personal belief is that 2D and 3D will move further apart and become totally separate.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

We are already using 3D for piping. 3D is helpful especially for adding into existing facilities. You get a much better feel for just how much room there really is, and whether if "I took this out here, and the bend it up here, and then back down that way" really will fit.

3D is a tool. If you don't use it, and everyone else requires it, then yes, you will get left behind - no different than if you are still running Windows98.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Quote:

Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Did mechanical pencils change engineering?

Did the introduction of Vellum instead of Linen or Mylar instead of Vellum change engineering?

OK so the change from 2D to 3D is probably more significant than the above examples but still just a tool.

As regards a detail response to your actual questions Cor Limey and others cover it rather well.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

At least a 3D model would have reduced the chance of the house in which I live being drawn 3rd angle and built first angle (resulting in it being "back to front"!

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

You know the only ones I find that are really sold on 3D programming is the salesman that is trying to sell you the program, or the computer jockey that is overdosing on the "warm n fuzzy feeling" he get when he generates a "pic"! …In my part of the world clients don't want to spend the extra money to do anything in 3D! Heck alot of times they don't even want a full drawing package ...”just enough to get the job done”. I've done afew 3D projects ...they are "cute", but as it was pointed out the old 2D way was getting the job done alot of years, so I don't see it getting pushed aside anytime soon!
 NOW don't get me wrong here, I do see a need for 3D! Any mega-buck project where a client needs to do a "walk-thru" ...makes prefect sense (unless you want to do models again!) But I haven't seen a mega-buck project in 20 years, and IF I ever get one I'd be the first to get a 3D program! ...But until I do, not call me, I'll call you!  ...Mark

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

In the aerospace industry, I haven't seen a purely 2D part in over 10 years.  It is definitely industry specific.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Systems and tools dont change anything, they can only make things easier.
People make the difference and the change.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

daylight211,

your discipline is civil/environmental.  if you do site design/utility/highway design/terrain modelling then yes 3d modeling will be most helpful (i.e.Autodesk, Eaglepoint).  For other applications you will want to meet with your competitors/colleagues as your existing and potential clients will expect whatever state-of-the-art product that is availble and in use in your locale.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

I have lived in both the 2D World and the 3D world.

3D as a mechanical solution is the equivalent jump as from paper drawings to 2D AutoCAD.  There is no comparison for the design speed of making parts and then assemblies - checking interferences- FEA analysis - and quick generation of machining drawings from the models (assuming you use a parametric software package).

I wouldn't be able to comment on the specific benefits in Civil work.  However, the benefit in mechanical design situations at this time are so immense that I would assume anyone using AutoCad in a mechanical design project would most likely be carrying club as well.

roadapple

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

There's still plenty of companies out there that have adopted 3D, but try to use it with their old 2D wrok flow and habits.  It's like using a shotgun for a club.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

There are also companies who've done the opposite.

Adopted 3D and abandoned any concept of disciplined drawing or 'design communication' standards, work flow etc.

Seems like 3D hasn't taken hold in civil the same way it has in mechanical & aerospace.  I'd primarily listen to the people from your own industry for advice as to whether you should make the jump at this point.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

One aspect of 3D that we use continuously is that the models are stored on a server and can be viewed on any computer in the organisation, in a 3D viewing program. Using these models is our primary way of reviewing designs.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

3D is here to stay and give people great visualization tools to see what the design should be and hopefully will be. The problem with a 3D model it still has to be converted to physical parts with tolerances and be manufacturable.

Plate and sheet materials have material thickness tolerance and out of flatness conditions. The model shows absolute flatness and thickness.

MadMango commented on the 2D work flow. Quoting a part to a supplier with a model would be rather difficult, especially if the supplier cannot intrepret the data.  2D prints are still required currently.

Even within the engineering community agreement on which 3D model to use has not been established. Pro-E, Catia, Unigraphics or AutoCAD which do you use? I like to use Rhino for 3D modeling but not for drafting. There are many others.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

While the differing CAD packages used today do present a problem with interoperability, the is a standard (ASME Y14.41-2003) that is addressing the concerns raised by BillPSU as to interpretation of tolerances and geometric conditions.  IF the same files can be read in the same manner across platforms, then MBD may be all that is needed to manufacture a part.

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

  You know there is an "off-shoot" problem with these 3D drafting systems, not just the AutoCAD version …and that is the quantity of these 3D programs. They are fractionating the already small design staff that’s available. Looking at job listings …one company wants PDMS, another wants Rebis, and another wants PDS ...the list goes on! That is, as I see it, a part of the real problem. Is it logical for an employer to expect a designer to know all these programs? ...Don't think so! Back in the "good old days" ...all you needed to be was a good designer! ...Doesn't seem to be the case these days! Does anybody remember the promise from AutoCAD to make your life simpler? …My $0.02!

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

Pro E baby with Pro M....

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: Will AutoCAD 3D change engineering?

I didn't read through all the replies so I hope I'm not repeating. I did read the one that said Acad has been 3D for quite awhile and that is correct.

If you really want to hop on the 3D band wagon (which I think is fine) I would look into packages other than Acad.  Don't get me wrong, I like Acad, but it has more or less evolved into 3D, whereas something like Solidworks (I know, your doing site work so that's not the software for you but I've got to stick with what I know) was developed specifically for solid modeling.  Maybe there's something more specific to your field.

3D versus 2D? If you're a crappy engineer/designer in 2D you're going to be a crappy engineer/designer in 3D.  It's just that now there will be a whole new dimension to your crappiness.

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