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Anybody here try Toastmasters?
2

Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
I just recently switched to working for a subsidiary of a "mega-corporation" which I'll keep un-named.  Anyway, I'm really struggling to find my niche here.  There just seems to be so much bureocracy, politics, and general "catty-ness" that it's difficult to actually get anything done.  It appears that, even more so than actual knowledge, communication skills are paramount.

To that end, I've tried joining a local chapter of Toastmaster's.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  Does it help?

Thanks,

--
Joseph K. Mooney
FAA DER Structures

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

No experience, but I would love to hear more about it. I think I could greatly benefit from it as well.

BTW, sorry to hear about your difficulties. I hate that attitudes and culture can play such a role in making one's life miserable at a job.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

One thing that I found with Toatmasters is not only did I learn how to overcome my mono-tone voice when presenting publicly (practice makes perfect) but I met people(network).  If your local Toastmasters is close to your work you will meet people from your company which could change your outlook.....just a thought

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Toastmasters!  now there you go!  think about this, the #1 reason why businesses and project fails is ????

being a Toastmaster member can only benefit you/others you work with.  i would not think twice about it!

btw, the answer is communication (the lack thereof or otherwise).

i can share an experience:  each year, a previous employer held annual meetings with engr's and other professionals in company.  one vp gave a presentation that was absolutely pathetic (poorly communicated).  the following year, most folks remembered the previous year's presentation. thus were not looking forward to hearing from this vp again.  well, turns out, he had a little training.  without a doubt, he gave the best presentation of the bunch!  thanks to toastmasters + other encouragement.

get after it and enjoy the ride!
good luck!
-pmover

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

It will certainly help your public speaking skills. Also the table topics discussions really hone your ability to speak to a subject at the drop of a hat. I really enjoyed Toastmasters.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Thanks for starting this. I think I'm gonna be inspired to look into and possibly join!

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

2
(OP)
HVACctrl:

got to www.toastmasters.org

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I tried a lunch time toastmasters group at previous company.

I couldn't keep up. Projects and support issues seem to take control of my work schedule for 2-3 week periods then let up.

I thought it was very useful.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself surrounded with a lot of people with soft skills that function at varying educational levels with very diverse interests.

They all matter though. Most of us aren't successful without enlisting help and support from may different types of folks.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Yes, try Toastmasters! I was dragged there under duress by my partner who has been involved with it for ages. It's actually fun, and you meet an interesting group of people.
Have not started on the speeches yet, but even the impromptu "table topics" speeches and the chance to take on various roles (speech evaluator, timer, etc) gives one a very good experience in speaking in public speaking and running a meeting.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I had similar benefit from a Dale Carnegie course that I was encouraged to take at work.  Improvements in public speaking, overall communication, thinking on your feet (impromptu speaking) are of great benefit to an engineer.  I participated in competitive debate in college for two years.  I have always said that I probably got more benefit from that (research, logic, speaking, and persuasion) than I got from most of my engineering courses.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

A round of applause for Toastmasters!  I highly recommend it.  

As a young engineer, it gave me a lot of confidence to attain competence in speaking to a diverse audience.  Before Toastmasters, when speaking before groups of people, I was one of the speakers whose arms, neck and torso could be observed to tremor, apparently out of shear fright.  Through Toastmasters, practicing the craft of speaking before significant numbers of people gave me plenty of self-confidence as well as the accompanying presentation skills.  Although few senior leaders at the "mega-corporation" where I used to work gave me more than a pat on the back for participating or even knew I was involved with Toastmasters, my experience with the group eventually worked to my favor.  

In the same month that I completed my 10th Toastmaster speech, I gave a short speech at the local Council of Engineers and Scientists annual gathering.  My boss' boss, the big cheese of our company's local branch, happened to be there along with an asphyxiating array of highly elevated, technical personalities.  Aerospace project leaders, direct competitors, public works division heads, and potential clients were seated upright at twenty round tables, 10 to a table.  My 3-minute speech, which introduced a new local chapter of a new national engineering non-profit, was OK--not perfect, but no uncertain uh's, stuttering or self-conscious repetition.  After the event, my boss' boss jumped out of his chair and flew over to congratulate me and congratulate me again and again for stepping up to the mic and promoting the company to the community.  The next day all the senior managers knew of this feat, and I gave another presentation to our company's local office that merited the non-profit a $10k donation.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Communication is not just about putting words together in a sentance. I do not think of myself as a particularly good communicator as I tend to waffle, make things fuzzy and generally just confuse people.  I find it much easier to communicate with sketches than pure dialogue.  Communication is also a more than just the words, a lot of it is to do with body language, they way you hold yourself and how you interact with other people.

I have never come across Toastmasters and from their website I was quite surprised to see they have a Chapter in my city.  I dont think any of my colleagues have heard of them either so I think I will make some enquiries.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Our school required a 1 credit Public Speaking class for graduation.  Every engineer should do at least that much.

TTFN



RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I have attended Dale Carnegie training - part of our corporate training and engineer development program. I haven't tried Toastmasters. Having said that, I would think that Toastmasters would be more beneficial, especially if you go regularly. Dale Carnegie is good, but unless you read the stuff all the time (and it will get boring), you will start to forget. Toastmaster is a regular thing - you do it all the time - so the more you do, the sharper you get.

Anyhow, you don't have anything to lose by trying it out for yourself. No?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I am a ten yr toastmaster rated as ATM, Able TM. I came on the rebound from considering Dale Carnegie.

Some are closet TM's; others are public types, like me:

- Gave a candidate forum for my town, and it was a success. My wife did the timing. At the end a young lady came to ask "How did you do it? I am from the League of Women Voters, and my meeting was a shambles." I replied that it was because of TM.

- Did eulogies for several close relatives; impossible without TM training. I wrote an article in The Toastmaster magazine on eulogies, and they formed a new eulogy section in the advanced manual.

- Did Amer Cancer Soc smoker clinics to help stop smoking.

- Presented detention classes for smoking teens in HS. I brought in a section of cancerous lung tissue for them to ponder over.

- More important, TM has given me the experience with communications to work for two yrs on a tech magazine, Plant Engineering.

- Further, I am working on my first NF book on aviation safety: The National Airline Academy - long overdue." Now seeking funding thru charitable trusts.

Do I believe in Toastmasters? Of course! Join Now!

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Last night was my first Toastmasters and with out question I learned two things I can do to improve my communication with others.

Thanks Joseph and to all whom have participated here.

Sincerely

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I have sent 3 emails to various local clubs to inquire about joining (1 a few weeks back, 2 yesterday) with no replies yet.

Is there something more specific I have to do? Maybe pick up the phone and call?

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Maybe they're shy and don't like to talk to strangers. smile

Either phone or just show up at the next meeting!

cheers
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to find answers ... FAQ559-1091

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

CBL,
Good one! Made me laugh!

I guess I'll have to come out of my shell and phone them. I dang sure ain't just gonna show up unbeknownst.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Ed
That’s just what I did and they where all so friendly and helpful.

Sincerely

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Toastmasters is listed in the phone book locally under 'Toastmasters Intl.' You'll get someone on the executive committee. Call now.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I am going to give Toastmasters a try.  I see lots of examples at work of how bad communication can hurt a project. (Don't forget, listening is a part of communication)

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Thank you "joekm" for starting this thread.  Without it, I probably wouldn't learn of Toastmasters for who knows how long.  A co-worker and I made our first visit last night.  

The group was friendly, and asked us to participate in whatever we were comfortable with.  I think this is a very inexpensive way to improve yourself.  As professionals, we should all be able to communicate effectively.  Toastmasters seems to be an effective tool that allows us to do so.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Thanks for the thread. It spurred me into going to a meeting last week.

It was pretty good. I think I'll join. It went well except for when I had to give an impromptu answer to a question in a exercise they call "table topics" smile. I stammered a bit because I didn't expect to be called on as a guest and I hadn't thought out my answer to the topic question. It was pretty neat though. That's what we go for anyway, isn't it?

Thanks again. I am looking forward to the next meeting.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Breaking into Toastmasters may be a challenge, and once involved there are many more to come.  Organizing information, improving presentations, providing constructive feedback, and running the show are all opportunities a Toastmasters' gathering presents.

For me, one benefit to Toastmasters was not just practicing my speeches, but especially listening to other speakers, while learning something special about our community.  Each of us brought our ideas to the gathering and hammered out our strengths and weaknesses together.  I cannot say enough how helpful the organization was to my life.

If you are at all hesitant to finding a local group based on someone else's experience there, be encouraged to reserve some energy to explore the group on your own.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

For me TM has been a lifechanging experience. You don't need a written invitation to attend. They will be happy to see you. Local neswpapers list them, also. Some are AM meetings; others are lunchtime; some after work. I favored the evening meeting so that I could relax over a light dinner.

There are company based TM groups restricted to company employees. They usually meet at lunch time. I helped organize the Sears HQ TM group. Also was involved in starting a German TM group in the Chicago area.

Plasgears, ATM

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I went to a Toastmasters meeting last night.

One good thing that I noticed was that when I made notes about the speakers I made the same observations as the experienced Toastmasters.  

The Table Topic was a big challenge for me. Somehow I managed to eke out over a minute of impromptu speaking.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
Yea, nothing like walking to the podium with not even the remotest clue as to what you are going to say.  However, the ability to "think on my feet" as it were, has already helped me at my current job.

I've actually joined two different chapters of Toastmaster's that meet on alternate Thursdays.  So, essentially, I go every Thursday.  One of these is at a Chinese Buffet resturant.  So, I suggested that we just grab a tray of fortune cookies and use them for table topics.  In other words, go up to the podium, open up a fortune cookie, and do two minutes on whatever the fortune is.

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Joe,

How long does it take you to compose and rehearse a 4 to 6 minute speech?  

Using a fortune cookie for the table topic is a great idea!

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
I've actually only just joined so I've yet to do my "icebreaker" - partially due to the holidays interrupting things.  Although, I've practiced it and it's timing around 5 1/2 to 6 minutes.  I've also written speech 5 (The body speaks), but it's weighing in over 10 minutes...and I'm not clear on how to pare it down.

I've been practicing in the car on the way to work.  I find that other motorist give you a wide berth if they see you talking to nobody in particular in a very animated fashion :)

As far as how to gage the time...I'm really not sure...everyone has thier estimate on how many minutes per page, etc.

Try the "rule of threes" or whatever they call it.  Think of three things about yourself that give a snapshot of "you" and try to segway from one to the other.  If they are too different to link together, think of some larger topic that they all describe and make that the underlying theme.  For example, 1) Affinity for "Gadgets",  2)  good at math, 3) Likes to build and Tinker  could possibly all describe typical "engineer" traits.

I think if you pick three things and write the necessary words to either link or encompass them, you'll have your 4-6 minutes.

But practice it and see.

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

As I recall from the meeting, they mentioned having a beginning or intro, body and end to the speech.

The rule of 3 will be a big help in getting started and avoiding writers block.

I did a Google search and found suggestions from radio copywriters for radio spots.

75 to 100 words = 30 seconds, 150 to 190 words for 60 seconds.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

That's too fast, I think.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I gave it a try. For 30 seconds, 75 to 90 words could work out, 100 may be pushing it. If the word "Mississippi" = 1 second, then 60 of those would be 60 seconds. However, not every word in a speech will have 4 syllables.

I will use the copywriters suggestions as a guide and see how it works out.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
Yes, but remember, you want to sound "conversational".  There will be times when you pause between words or otherwise transisition from one idea to the next.  

Although, if you shoot for 5 minutes, you've got a lot of leeway.

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I think there will be a lot of "learning by doing" involved.

My bosses at work are supportive of me being in Toastmasters, so I think it will open some doors in the future.  I may get started on my Icebreaker now, so I have time to refine it and practice before I have to do it.
Being prepared will help me a lot with being comfortable.
The Table topic was rough for me.  I can easily converse on things that I am interested in, but getting a topic out of left field and speaking on it is tough.


RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
Oh yea...my first shot at table topics was to pull out a random strip of paper.  Mine said, "My Challenge to All of You...".

Boy, talk about a one-sentance brain fart...but I managed.

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Put Toastmasters on your resume. I got a call from a job opportunity where they value TM training.

Not well appreciated is the fact that TM is a part of the world of communications, and it may lead to publishing opportunities, as it did in my case.

It also may propel you into writing a book. My book in prep is "the National Airline Academy - long overdue." I have incorporated and gotten non-profit status for the purpose of seeking funding from charitiable trusts. I have a flight instructor background with an inside view of the airline industry.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

I can't help it...to me "TM" will always mean "Transcendental Meditation", which puts a totally different spin on some of the posts in this thread...

Hg
easily amused

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

(OP)
So, do one of your speeches in the character of:

Avenagutime Vishnue-verhere

:)

--
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
                                          -- Albert Einstein

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

joekm, I hope your discussion has helped other engineers enrich themselves and their peers.  I just have to add one thing to my post above.  

Once I demonstrated public speaking skills outside the branch office of the "mega-corporation", by presenting to area organizational meetings, a new supervisor stepped in, heard of my presentations, and then made it one of his goals to prove how "little" I actually knew about making a presentation.  Needless to say, this was very uncomfortable for me, but I suppose it helped.  

It's funny how great success brings even greater challenges.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

This is a great idea. I've been meaning to do Toastmasters for a while. Going to look into it right now.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

Something to look forward to:
- Club speech contests;
- Area speech contests among several clubs;
- Division speech contests representing a large metro area;
- Get a copy of the National Speech Contest tape, CD or video, if you can't attend. It will be memorable.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

You will notice in Toastmasters that it is populated with highly motivated types: professionals, real estate agents, salespersons, executives.

I once teamed with a lawyer in a debate contest with another club. We lost, but the experience was well worth the effort. The winner taught me how to win a debate.

You unattached types may find it a good place to meet interesting people.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

"You unattached types may find it a good place to meet interesting people."

...real estate agents, salespersons, lawyers

Pass

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anybody here try Toastmasters?

That's true... although it's not my reason for attending the local meetings, as a secondary benefit, I have met several helpful professionals at a Toastmasters International meeting.  One fellow Toastmaster, a real estate agent, helped get me into my first home on a fine deal for everyone involved.  

The main, great benefit to attending meetings is the opportunity to practice speaking while on the spot.  If you take the risk of speaking like a fool, acting like an idiot and performing outside your comfort zone, your public speaking skills will improve, because this organization was designed for that purpose.

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