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I'm leaving...
6

I'm leaving...

I'm leaving...

(OP)
I've been with the same company for nearly 13 years. I got an offer, with a 20% increase in pay from another company - a good company that I've interviewed with a couple of times in the past (6 years ago) and was turned down. I like my boss. I like *most* of my coworkers. I am having trouble breaking this news to my boss since I have this awful feeling that I'm pushing my dad in front of a moving car. Advice? Thanks!

RE: I'm leaving...

Dave, congrats! A new and exciting phase of life.

It's always hard when you tell people you are leaving. I've had to do it several times (it doesn't get any easier); but it is a valuable lesson. It hurts to leave, but it's best if you do it anyway. Remember, you are not rejecting your current employer, but you are accepting an offer to further yourself and your family.

Would you stay if your curent employer made you a counteroffer of equal value? It's always a possibility.

Good luck

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: I'm leaving...

3
For a boss I liked that much, I'd probably tell him over a beer, then submit my (very short) formal resignation the next day.

I'd still be prepared to leave immediately on request, and/or to graciously and professionally accomplish even the most demeaning or onerous of terminal assignments.

I wouldn't be too concerned about affecting his future.   He'd certainly push _you_ in front of a bus.  That's why he gets the big bucks.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: I'm leaving...

People at work aren't your friends. I understand you can get "attached" after so many years of working.  Do what's best for you.  You can always be nice and polite and anyone should understand. After all, if it came down to your boss or you, who do you think he would choose?  

RE: I'm leaving...

True dad will congratulate you with a handshake.  Bridges will not be burned and he will not take it personally.

It won't be easy to break the news but you have to face it when the time comes.

Everyone can be replaced, though it may seem difficult at first.  I'm sure in due time your boss will find someone to fill your spot.  If I were you, I would leave a brief resignation letter, inviting him to sit and talk with you.  Keep it short and positive.

Best of luck in your new position.

RE: I'm leaving...

Beer after work, or breakfast before work, either one should be followed up by a formal resignation letter as Mike suggests.  Congratulations.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I'm leaving...

Personally I like the breakfast before work, or starbucks or whatever.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: I'm leaving...

What I hate is when you decide to leave, expect to give at most a 2 week notice (standard), actually hope to be released immediately (some companies and managers prefer this), but they ask you to stay 3 weeks or a month.

Try to figure out what would be best for you while at least giving them the courtesy to clean up any unfinished business. Be prepared for any possibilities. 13 years is a long time in today's world so, they might expect a longer period before leaving.

Congrats! If your boss is any kind of person, the bridge will remain open!

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

HVAC,

Thats funny that you mention the company asking someone to stay longer than 2 weeks. Every time I've left a job, this has happened to me. Sometimes I could, others I could not, but they always ask. Funny thing is, if THEY ASK ME to leave, I'm never given more than a days (usually a few hours) notice.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: I'm leaving...

Yeah, its double standards.

Speaking of which, I am serving my 2 weeks as we speak. I'm leaving to a new industry altogether. I have only been in this job for a short while (several months) but finally admitted that I hate this industry.

They STILL want whatever they can get out of me- a month or more if I'll give it. I'd prefer immediate termination or a week at best.

I somewhat commited to 2 weeks, but may shorten it. I've only been here not even 3 months.

Didn't mean to derail the thred if I did so.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

When I left my first job they made me work the whole notice period even though I was going to a direct competitor.
On my last day I was kept so busy everyone else was down the pub for my farewell drink and I was still working!
Never mind, you live and learn.

When I left my next job they were advertising for my replacement even before I'd handed my notice in because they knew of the offer and knew I couldn't refuse it. That time i needed to stay long enough to get a new design reviewed while still, as an employee, protected by the 1977 Patents act.

Redundancy..... not a good experience for anyone but when this happened to me it was elective.
I was determined that if I went, rather than simply resign, I would go with some of their cash and had been waiting the opportunity.

Came the day and two of us were told our jobs were being made redundant and there was a one new position we could apply for. I said "thanks, but no thanks." (it would have served them well if we both said it but my colleague had a number wives to support (one current and one ex) and had no choice.

Next thing I know it has been temporarillly suspended so I could go to Russia and supervise a new installation. In their wisdom they had neglected the serious financial exposure a failed system could give them.
I made them pay for that too! (and some day hope to cash in the brownie points earned: probably when hell freezes over, but you never know)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: I'm leaving...

I always thought one of the hardest things I had to do was turn my resignation into my Dad.  He didn't take it to well.  But he was ok with it because my younger brother was stepping into my shoes and handled it well.

When I was telling a friend of mine about it he said that is nothing.  Then he told me about the time he had to fire his mom from the company business.
Man was she mad.

Zuccus

RE: I'm leaving...

Congrats Dave!

Since you a quitting a job, I would just walk into his office and let him know that you are leaving (give him your resignation letter, or HR, depending on company policy).

Then, I'd invite him to a beer at the local pub/bar/wherever you go for a beer.

Most termination notices vary with position, senority, etc. If you are senior, and in charge of others, 1-2 months is common. If you are not, 2 weeks may be enough. Usually, the minimum is spelled out in your employment contract (the one you signed waaaaaaaaaaaay back when you joined). And this usually goes both ways.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I'm leaving...

Congrats on the new job.

The way I left my last company was obvious.  Everyone in the company new I was disgruntled - bored actually - and I was actively searching for a new job on company time.  Why?  Because the alternative was to read trade journals.  I was literally cleaning the bathroom and sweeping the shop floor just to burn the hours in a day.

Time came that I found the company I currently work for.  Love it.  But I verbally told my direct supervisor, whom I got along with very well.  We discussed things.  He knew it was no surprise.  The next day I dropped off my resignation on my manager's desk, stating the standard 2 weeks.  1) He had no idea I wasn't satisfied with my job.  2) Although I wrote down 2 weeks, I asked to be let go immediately.  He said no.  I read trade journals for the next two weeks.   GRRRRR!

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: I'm leaving...

Congratulations.

It is hardly ever about money. I assume, you part you ways with the company because you are not 100% happy. I had a case like that. When the time came to leave (but I had not commited to the new company yet) I met with my boss and told him about all my reasons, why I was not happy. He expressed willingness to work things out but it was just a lip service. He was not prepared to do anything. So I left. While leaving I offered him two months to hand over my stuff and train someone for my old duties. He turned it down. I was kicked out after two weeks of statutory period. I was not exactly prepared for that, how stupid was that? But my new employer was happy to have me earlier and it worked out. This is business. Do not expect love and tears. Tell you boss straight, do it informally, any way that works for you and him, beer is great, dinner too. Make sure you do it without third party present. And good luck for the future.

Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering

RE: I'm leaving...

Congrats Dave...Ya gotta do what's best for YOU.

As for the resignation letter, don't get sappy...keep it to three lines...

Thank you for the opportunity to work here.  I will be leaving on ____ to pursue an opportunity consistent with my career and family goals.  I will be pleased to work out a transition of my duties to others.

RE: I'm leaving...

And speaking of ethics; probablly the most famous resignation letter written.

Quote:

Dear Mr Secretary:

I hereby resign the Office of President of the United States.

Sincerely,

Richard Nixon (signed)

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: I'm leaving...

Anything more would have been pointless.
A model of constraint, no excuses and no soft soap: everyone knew why he was going and it wasn't as if Trickie Dickie could expect that if life didn't quite work out in mufti, that he could get his old job back again.
On the other hand, when leaving a job, a touch of the "Uriah Heap" can be useful and costs nothing.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: I'm leaving...

Dave - I've never left a company for more money just more exciting work.  I hope your decision takes this into account, or in other words, I hope there is more there than just money.  Otherwise you're throwing money in place of good friends and bosses.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: I'm leaving...

HVACctr,

Could you amplify which industry you hate & which you are going to?

Thanks.

RE: I'm leaving...

Sure.
HVAC (hate), Oil and Gas (hope to like better).

HVAC just seems mundane and not very exciting or overly important. Also, it is oversaturated with too many people- qualified or not. The money is not there and I no longer feel its worth the effort.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

I guess I can't find excitement in laying out ductwork, specifying a new condenser unit (one of about 20 that would do the job), etc...

Just boring stuff and not very sexy to me.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

I've gone through the resignation process 4 times now.  the first three weren't that hard because I was a little sour on the company by the time I left.

This last one - 4 months ago - was much tougher because it was a good company, I had good bosses on both a departmental and project level, and I enjoyed working there.  I actually informed my project boss and my department boss once I had a firm offer, and before I had decided to accept the offer.  I had a face to face with both and neither was easy, but the meeting with my department boss was the hardest.

However, all that being said the new job was in my best interest and the only one who will really look out for my best interst is me.

I've never burned any bridges and in fact have been recruited by two of my former employers to come back.  

RE: I'm leaving...

Congrats on your new job! If there is anything that engineers are not good at it is communicating bad news to a client or co-worker. I have noticed it among our profession more than that of many professional services.

The only way to do it is face to face and honestly, you will much better when it is over.

A barely related anectdote:

I had a job working for the Feds and it absolutely sucked . There were hundereds of engineers working in gigantic cube farms lorded over by ball-less sycophants at a ratio of something like 40% mgrs to 60% production engineers. I finally got a job in the real world and happily tendered my resignation to my boss. Then "they" brought me in and paid me lip service as to why I should stay and how much they liked me. This is all after I had been written up for being "disrespectful" in a meeting. Nothing bad mind you, I just asked someone far "more important" than me to: "Pipe down and listen to what I am telling you."

Well, on my last day I was packing up my stuff to leave at noon. I went to one of the community work stations that was attached to some scanning apparatus and set a burned CD into the player and set a phone receiver next to the computer speaker. . . I turned on the intercom that covered the entire floor (350 employees) and walked out the doors to the soundtrack of "Take This Job and Shove it" on a continual loop. I guess it was mid way through the 3rd time before they found the offending phone. Since that jack was not on any secretaries phone system there was no "line in-use" light for it anywhere. I guess it got quite a laugh and the gophering was rampant for that 8 minutes.

According to some friends I still have at those offices, I am a folk hero. They say people still talk about me in hushed voices and whenever someone stands up for themselves in a meeting or to a boss they have made my name into a tribute salute.

RE: I'm leaving...

Sweet!
Sounds pretty wild! WHy can't more of us engineers be like that?

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

Uh, I've been like that.  

Example:  I was a regular subject of discussion at corporate board meetings, as in, "Did you hear what he said to so_and_so?".

I can't say it's been good for my career.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: I'm leaving...

Yeah, along those lines. I needed to get two of my old bosses to sign off for my experience so I could sit for the PE exam. Once I realized that I was going to need their signatures, I started to regret becoming a folk-legend.

I called them both and asked, and they both agreed and told me more than once that "The door is always open, if you want to come back." I was shocked to say the least after what I had pulled, but now after being a "boss" for a while I realize that some employees come with warts, but their value/abilities can waaaaay offset the occasional outburst. I doubt I would have got promoted if I came back.

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
Folks,

Thanks for all your replies and such. Everything is useful. It's been difficult for me since, without revealing too much about myself, I work for, shall we say, a "company" where it's  often said that's it's impossible to get fired (and the security in the public sector can't be beat).

However, I need the challenges and the opportunities this private sector job will offer me.

I've also kept things quiet in my office because I genuinely don't want people to think that I was in a hurry to leave. Quite the contrary. I will sort of quietly slip out and just "see everyone later..."

I'm not the smartest engineer on the block, but I have earned a reputation to make sure that a job gets finished. I have been told that I'd be hired back if things don't work out. I will, however, do everything within my power to make things work out.

RE: I'm leaving...

Congrats! So I guess things went well!

WHat do you mean by "see everyone later"? Are you just gonna be gone one day with only your supervisor knowing its coming (and maybe his supervisors as well)?

How much notice did you offer? How much are they taking you up on?

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
"See everyone later" as in no fanfare or a fancy lunch, just me personally saying good-bye to people individually. Some people know it's coming but I haven't advertised it. The boss has known that I was going to make the decision for almost a month, now.

RE: I'm leaving...

Re RLM2000's story:

When I first started as a sponsored student one of the first things that happened to my site was that the instrumentation department was made redundant and their offices/workshops turned into a canteen.  One of the electronics engineers confided in me (over several beers) that his last two weeks' work would be devoted to putting an alarm clock into his last piece of test-bed equipment.  About 6 months later I was working in the engine test department when all work stopped to try to find an odd noise in one of the consoles. Everything was powered down but it kept on going.  Eventually they stripped it out and found parts of an alarm clock on one of the boards, complete with its own power supply.

RE: I'm leaving...

Push Dad in front of the car! Grow a set walk in to the office and tell them: "Hey I got an offer and I have been offered a 20% increase" Give them a chance to counter the offer.
Regards,
Namdac

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
Too late, I left with all the doors wide open should I need 'em.

Now, if I win the lottery, then I could do something like that...

RE: I'm leaving...

How has the move been so far?

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
It's been smooth. I took my time doing it. Again, leaving the doors open.

I'm a packrat with books and other engineer's toys. So there's a lot of "stuff" at home that otherwise wouldn't be here.

I put all of my work in electronic form on 5 DVDs and gave them to my boss. Plus, I've got backups here at home - and I made it clear that I'm open for questions on anything - for free, even.

I start on Moday (6 Nov 06). I'm getting really fired up, too.

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
Boy, is it different from my previous place of work.

RE: I'm leaving...

Different "good" and not different "bad" I hope?

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I'm leaving...

I went to work for a British company earlier this year.  Now "different" has a whole 'nother connotation in that regard.  There ought to be a forum on this site for gringos working for Brits to vent in.

Different might be gross understatement.

rmw

RE: I'm leaving...

rmw ... lol I would love to hear more. Care to share some experiences (good or bad) in the Pub?

cheers

RE: I'm leaving...

Yes please.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: I'm leaving...

When I posted my reply more thana month ago in the beginning of this thread I had no idea that I would find myself now in the nearly same position as Dave.  It's interesting to go back and re-read the rest of the thread through a different set of eyes.  Thanks everyone.  I won't be giving my boss any advance notice beyond the two weeks.  Telling my boss I'm looking or leaving before I accept an offer is asking to get canned before I have another source of income.  I feel that's plenty fair given our relationship since I've been there and I will be able to complete all my remaining work in that time short of what comes up as time goes along.

RE: I'm leaving...

(OP)
My previous job was not in the private sector, so, here we go:

The pressure is different. At my previous job, I put pressure on myself to succeed, here, I don't have to do that...
The only topics of discussion in the new office at structural engineering and money. And not always in that order. And it's usually the boss who initiates all discussion. The rest of the place is too busy working on structural engineering to talk or think about anything else.
No one plays music at their desk.
No one make jokes, unless it's an anecdote about structural engineering.
No one surfs the web unless it's 100% related to structural engineering AND money. Meaning, no surfing Eng-Tips unless it's from home.
E-mail traffic doesn't seem to include ANY work-spam (chain letters) or other junk.
People come to work if they're sick. I have seen three people who appeared to have been well on their way through the flu to pneumonia.
People do seem to take vacations, though they make very sure that someone will pick up their work when they're gone - so does the boss and he's deadly serious about it.

Coffee is free 24/7 - and you better be ready to work 24/7 if necessary.
At least once a week there is a seminar given either by some vendor or similar. Food is often included.

I have the idea that everyone is paid very well - with excellence expected in return. No one talks about pay, pay "grades" or other seniority. There are a lot of offices with doors, though, clearly indicative of being at a higher level in pay/responsibility.

The challenges for me are a) I have to be faster, b) don't ever get angry at anyone - only the boss is allowed to do that, c) always ask for a deadline, but never expect to be given one ("whenever you're done" translates into "stop wasting time and money asking me for a deadline, you could've spend those two seconds working on the problem"), d) don't ever get sick, and e) document my work on my own time; the boss doesn't need a memo detailing what I've done, how I've done it or anything else.

I am not in a celebratory mood, I am terrified that I'm going to get fired. I'm a good swimmer, but it's going to take getting used to the boss' foot on my head while I'm trying to stay afloat, if you know what I mean. I worked in private a long time ago, but I was mostly in the field and had a lot of "free time" - like driving to and from jobsites and such - this is a whole new ball game for me.

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