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Career advice for an entry level engineer
11

Career advice for an entry level engineer

Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Hey guys,
I am new to this forum. So, I don't know if this is a right place to ask this question. I got my B.S. in Structural Engineering last year and I have been working at a Timber Industry for over a year now. Recently, I am thinking about going back to grad school, but the question is if I should do my MS in engineering or get MBA. My long term career goal is to become a project manager or managing principle. I asked couple of engineers and some said to get MBA since engineers usually don't have enough management and market knowledge to become a good manager and other said, MBA is overstated and I should go for MS in engineering to move up. In my personal opinion, I think I should get MBA with PE or SE license. What you guys suggest for this situation? Your suggestion on this matter will be really helpful.

Thanks,

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I can see it going either way. I just got my PE license. My choice would be to go MBA next, if any. It seems most of what I have learned in school and while studying for the PE license isn't even used at the workplace. I would think the MS in Engr would be just more of the same.

I think the MBA would make me more rounded and capable of more easily being accepted into management, etc...

That's just my take. Others will certainly see it differently. It will depend on your industry, your job aspirations, etc.... It might even depend on the individual looking at your resume.

Go for the PE for sure either way. Particularly in structural, it seems to be important- although the structural PE exam appears to be fairly difficult.

Ed

www.engineerboards.com

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I would say that the MS vs. MBA depends a lot on which part of the industry you are heading towards.

If you are hoping to go into consulting engineering, with an A/E, E, or E/A firm, I would probably go with the MS in structural engineering.  The MS is getting quite important for the Structural discipline - it helped me considerably to be a much much better engineer than I ever would have been with a BS only.  With the MS, you can develop yourself into a good engineer, get licensed, and you will eventually move into management, project management or marketing as you get older.

With an MBA only, you get a lot of business savvy, but I would question whether you would ever become a good structural engineer.

There's nothing worse than an engineering manager who doesn't understand his/her discipline very well.

I have a friend with an MS in Structural who, after working a few years, went on to get an MBA while working.  Our current president is an architect who just got his MBA.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks a lot for your help HVACctrl and JAE. Question for JAE, Is getting a M.S. in structural gave you significant salary increase? and does the school makes a great difference for M.S. if you are already in the working field?

Thanks,

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Check thread731-162299, this is a very similar situation. This might help a lot:

Regards

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz.  I guess I can only speak for myself, but going from being a graduate with a B.S. to a graduate with an M.S. was night and day for me.  I felt that "all the light bulbs went off" in my head after getting the M.S. and my confidence, ability to learn and grow, and my deeper understanding of design and analysis issues really helped.

So it definitely made me a much better engineer.

If you study some of the salary surveys out there, I think that in structural, the MS may get a bit of a boost in salary compared with B.S., perhaps $2000 to $4000 per year.  The separation between the two stays about the same and maybe grows narrower in later years.

The big difference, in my view, is that the MS opens many more doors of opportunities (in structural) than the BS.  I manage a small structural engineering department and generally will not even consider hiring BS graduates.  This is true of some of my other manager friends out there as well.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks for your answer JAE. I was wondering does the school makes a big difference in MS. After I graduated, I was working for a small architectural firm, and I hate it. Soon after that I interviewed at another small firm, but the pay was terrible. At that point, I was thinking of making a career move until I got my current job. I love my current job in the Timber industry, but here I really don't do any big structural design project. Mainly I do retrofit work for residential houses, but there is nothing exciting happens on a daily basis. I feel like I am not getting enough design experience to prepare for my PE. That's why I wanted to try out working for a Structural Engineering firm.

I was thinking of getting my M.S. in Structural Engineering at San Diego State University while I work for a firm, because they offer part time program at night. Question is will it look bad on my resume since I got my B.S. from UC San Diego which is much more reputable school than SDSU?

  

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I can't answer for the two schools....usually you hear the advice to always go to a different grad school than your undergrad school but I didn't - went to the same school for both with a 2 year work experience between them.  That 2 year work period really helped me as after your BS degree most students are pretty burned out on studying and also very poor.

I'd check out the placement statistics of SDSU to see how they fare.  Also, call some area-wide SE's to see if there is any sort of "reputation" for either school...how they compare, how well their grads do, etc.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Personally I'm inclined to think MBA are over rated but that may not be reflected in the job market.

Most of the better mangagers I've had didn't have an MBA.  Some of the useless ones did, or other higher business qualifications.

Just my 2C/P

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I suggest working for another year before making a decision.  1 year in engineering is almost the same as zero experience.  Give it another year and decide which side of the business you really like best.  If you want to be a manager, go do an MBA (but do it on the side).  If you really want to pursue the engineering side, go for an MS.  

I think every structural engineer where I work has a master's, the rest are considered interns even if they have a B.S.  This is not the case for other disciplines.  Most of the electrical, mechanical, and civil folks have only a B.S.  The structural department will not even hire someone full time who doesn't have a master's.  I've always wondered why an M.S. in structural seems to be so important.  

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

My opinion is: Don't get the MBA until you have at least five years working experiences. MBA provides someone who already have the technical background to increase the management knowledge. For example, if you work as product manager, you need to understand the products develeopment, principal, and also the marketing skills. So, the average age of MBA student, at least 30-35.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

You should have gone into medicine... hours aren't as brutal, pay is better and liability is less... <G>

Dik

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
He he he dik. I have to disagree with you on that. Two of my best friends are doctors, and there hours are brutal since they work in the ER, and liability is much higher than us but that's why they get better salary.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
JAE, Did your work experience helped you toward admission for your grad school?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I don't think so ... as far as admission goes.  I simply called my professor and asked him about what sort of things I would need to do to get accepted into grad school.  He knew I'd been working for two years, but I do believe he was seeing a local guy from the home state who was willing to pay his way through that he did everything he could to get me in.  

But the work experience did a LOT for my grad studies, as I was hungry then to really get into structural engineering while some of my other fellow classmates, who went straight through from undergrad, were quite burned out on studying.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

3
something to think about...

a survey i one read said

engineers from 0 - 5 years experience wish they had more technical understanding, and wished they took more technical courses.

engineers from 5 -15 years wish they had more business understanding, and wished they took more business / mgmt courses.

engineers from 15 + years wish they would have a better world understanding, and wished the'd taken more diversity, arts and liberal arts courses.

(just thoughts)

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

2
Very interesting list Wes.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Gotta question. Is it better to get a M.S from ok school or not get it at all?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I would say that unless the school is a diploma mill or has no accredited undergraduate programs, it is always better to get an MS than not to get it at all.  

Weighing in on the MS vs. MBA discussion from above, I would agree that it really depends on what you want to do in the future, and that may change as time goes on.  When I was in school, I always thought the people who got a masters degree were crazy.  After I graduated and worked for a summer, I missed learning and started taking prerequisite classes for an MBA.  When it came time to decide whether to continue with an MBA or switch to MS (mechanical engineering), I decided to get the MS.  I don't regret it one bit.  I thought that I had a pretty good grasp of engineering subjects when I earned my BS.  I learned during my MS studies that I still had much more to learn, of course I was also working full time and that probably played a role in the revelation.  Now that I have also earned my MS in engineering, I am  much more confident, not just in my knowledge of engineering but in my abilities.  I learned valuable research and writing skills that I didn't gain while working towards the BS.  I also have better analytical skills.  These are skills that directly affect my everyday work.

As far as salary is concerned with the MS, having the MS gives me two years of "experience" towards advancement but does not directly affect my salary.  What does give me a monthly increase in salary, through license premium, is my PE license.  In the civil/structural world, I think a PE license is almost a necessity, if not at  your current job, definitely in the future.  Do that first.

One other thing you might consider is a Master of Engineering Management.  It is kind of halfway between an MBA and MS as you get exposed to management classes but also take some upper level engineering classes.  However, it won't get you the recognition that either an MBA or MS will get you because it isn't as well known.  Several noteworthy universities offer the MEM degree through distance learning, as well as MS degrees.  Good luck with your decision.
Jason

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

However that strongly depends on where you are, what sort of job you want, and why you want to do a masters.

If you work in the automotive engineering world, then a masters or PhD taken while you are less than 30 will REDUCE your starting wage, in Australia. Wait until you have some real world experience under your belt before pursuing either. By then, your knowledge in your industry will exceed anything you might have learned at university. That is the point behind Wes' note of the 16th Sept.

By the time you are 30 you might well choose to pursue a further degree, but it might well not be in engineering.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I got my MS before I got a design job.  I wish I went to grad school while i work because I would have so many questions for my professor from my projects.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I think PaKaz said somewhere above that the plan was to go to school part time (at night) while working.  So by the time of graduation, PaKaz would be almost 30.  I really think full-time work and part time grad school is the best way to do grad school, unless you plan to be an academic/research person.  I was able to apply SOME stuff that I was learning right away to my job and other stuff I could see a direct relevance that I wouldn't have seen as a full time student.  Also, the work experience is going to help you much more in the future if you decide to change jobs (for most jobs).

What Greg says is correct, a lot can change in 5 years.  Five years ago, I wouldn't have imagined myself where I am now and I bet that 5 years from now, I won't be where I now imagine myself going.  When I am 35 or 40, I might wish I would have gotten the MBA, or chucked it all to be a missionary,  you never know.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks again for all your response. I really appreciate it. The reason I am stressing about getting M.S., because when I look at the job market, most of the employer out there wants M.S. in Structural Engineering; at least in the Southern California area. My current employer is willing to pay for my M.S. if I go to school and work at the same time, but in that case I have to go to state school which as not as recognized as my undergrad school. Many of them saying not to get it since it's going to look bad on my resume, but some of them are saying to get it since I am already in the work field and it's going to be practically free. I can always quit my job, and go to a better school, but that's not what I want to do, because I am still paying my student loan from undergrad. But if going to a better school is going to effect my career that much, than I am willing to go through it.    

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Question is should I go for the state school or go to good school and quit my current job?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz,

One of my profs once told me:

"Never get a Master's degree unless someone else pays for it"

Of course, he was a Prof at a state school, so who knows.  But I say if you can get a free masters, valuable experience, and be able to continue to pay off debt instead of quitting and incurring more debt, thats the way to go.  Just my opinion.

Chaos

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

2
What is the reputation of the state school where you reside? Good? Bad? In between?

In New York City there are five engineering schools and three have graduate programs. It seems that many of the native-born engineers you meet from this area went to City College, Manhattan College, or Polytechnic as undergraduates. I've never come across anyone who disparaged another engineer because of his/her school (legitimate engineering  school that is). We have our preferences - everyone thinks their school is tops.

The graduate schools are City College, Poytechnic, and Columbia. It seems that most make their decision based on location to home and available courses, since most of us in the city went/attend school at night. Again, I've never come across anyone who looked down upon someone because of their school.

There's a young engineer in my group who went to a highly regarded school in upstate NY then received his MS from a state school in the midwest. So what? There's another young engineer who graduated from U of Illinois. So what? Is it the name of the school on the degree or the the person with the degree who gets the job done?

Quit worrying about what others will think; does it really matter in the long run?

Just don't get one of those degrees based on your "life experiences". We had one here with an MS and PhD from California Pacific University. Good guy; knew how to bring in work, but it was hard to keep from laughing whenever he introduced himself as doctor.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I went to a prestigious engineering school but I guarantee 95% of employer outside colorado wont know how good the uni is lol  :)

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks for your answer. San Diego State University is not reputable as University of California San Diego (UCSD) where I got my BS and at the same time San Diego State is not the worse school. According my dad who is also an Engineer states that downgrading schools might look bad on my resume. As a matter of fact, I got my current job because of my school. That's why I was streching the fact about the school. You are right bridgebuster, after working for 1.5 years, no one even asks me about my school, except for our clients. I just wanted to get opinion of a profession engineer who is working in this field for a while. I mean graduating from a decent school didn't gave any salary benefit compare to those who went to no name school, but it did got me the job I like. So you guys think working and getting my MS from State school is a good idea?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz, I would absolutely recommend working and getting your MS.  If your only option is the state school, so be it.  Consider that if you quit your job, you are losing your salary for about 2 years and paying, probably $15k-$20k for graduate school and living expenses, at least.  The degree from the "reputable" school vs. the "no name" school will not make up this difference in cost when you go to find another job.  To be honest, I am from the Midwest and I've never heard of San Diego State or UCSD so if you applied for a job with my company, I would probably go online and check out the schools but no one would look down on you because you got your MS from a "no name" school.  As long as the undergraduate programs are accredited by ABET, you still have a master's degree.

A good majority of the engineers at my company graduated from Kansas State University, which has a good reputation as an engineering school.  Many engineers graduated from Unviversity of Kansas, which I obviously think is not as good (hence I didn't go there) but they are still good engineers (some of them anyway).  Still a few more graduated from Wichita State University.  It makes no difference where they came from, what matters is the work they do.  Now you probably have never heard of any of these schools but we have 140 very fine engineers working here and the company doesn't care where they went to school, just that they are degreed engineers.

In short, if I were in your situation (and I was very similar about 5 years ago, although not structural), based on my experiences I would continue working, get the MS paid for by your company and get a PE license.  At that point, you are then in the drivers seat for your career.  Good luck!
Jason

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz,

I think the marks, and who your supervisor is, is probably more important than the school.

Personally, someone in the top 5 at SDSU is more impressive than bottom 5 at UCSD to me. If you work with a good professor that is well respected in industry, that is better than someone just starting out as a professor.

Just my thoughts.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks for the answer from everyone. Ashereng, I did't quiet understand your comment "top 5 at SDSU is more impressive than bottom 5 at UCSD" ??

I just spoke with my current boss, and he said getting MBA is better choice because being a project manager I would need more business knowledge than technical knowledge, but When I look into the job market, I see many project manager has MS in Engineering rather than MBA. Am I right on that? Do you guys know many engineer with MBA in the position Project Manager ?? I know that MBA gives you significant salary increase compare to MS in engineering.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

If you dont want to do design, go for MBA.  Personally, I love designing stuff.  There is no way I would do Project Management.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I mean, I prefer the guy that finished ranked in the top five of his class from a "bad" school over the guy that finished ranked in the bottom five from a "good" school.

MBA vs MS. It depends on the role. If the job is more business related than technical, then MBA of course. If the job is mroe technial, then MS.

There have been many conversation about who makes more money, MBA vs MS. Again, it depends. If you work at Microsoft, I am willing to bet the techies make more money. If you work for Morgan Stanley, I am willing to be the MBAs make more.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

"MBA vs MS. It depends on the role. If the job is more business related than technical, then MBA of course. If the job is mroe technial, then MS."

Absolutely. I would add that it also depends on the company since PM can be a nebulous postion.

For example where I work some PM's strictly manage the administrative & contractual aspects of the project; others deal only with technical matters; and the rest of us are somewhere in between.

We have two PE/MBA PMs. One only deals with managing budgets, schedules, reports; he won't make any technical decisions; can't design his way out of a paper bag and he admits it. The other is an excellent structural engineer but he's a disaster when it comes to managing budgets, keeping the project files in order, etc.

I work for a large company; most of the corporate managers are not engineers. Many of the regional managers and P/L managers are engineers. The way we operate, these people deal mainly with money issues and business development/marketing; they do little or no technical work. If this is your ambition (LARGE COMPANY) MBA is probably the way to go. However, you still need to have a good understanding of how a project gets done.

If your goal is to work in a smaller firm, where many of the principals are more actively involved in technical work - MS.

AS a PM, my work I prefer the engineering aspect of the project. Honestly,tracking project schedules, budgets, etc doesn't require an MBA; it's more a matter of being organized and dilligent. Most of the PM's here are PE/MS rather than PE/MBA. Another aspect of my job is business development/proposals - doesn't take an MBA.

PaKaz - I had an uncle who lived to be 95; not one grey hair on his head. His philosophy was simple: Pace yourself.
Take a breather; give yourself some time to find out what will give you fulfillment in your work.


 



RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

95 not one gray hair on his head?  No way?  Was he bald?  :)

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

His hair was a little thin but no grey. It wasn't Grecian Formula 16. I see guys in the office who dye their hair and it's obvious. His two remaining brothers are 80 and 88 - both grey.

Maybe it was the morning OJ with the rye chaser or the five DiNobili cigars (aka guinea stinkers) each day.

Then again, he wasn't an engineer; that might've had something to do with it.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Does Salary rate depends on the type of graduate school?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Your uncle was retired? How to live longer?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz, salary rate depends on a lot of factors, type of graduate school may play a factor for some companies.  Obviously, if a company is looking for a project manager with an MBA, they will probably pay a higher salary to someone with an MBA vs. someone with an MS.  On the other hand, a lot of companies don't want to pay extra salary because they don't value a masters degree and/or don't require it.  In short, we go back to the previous posts.  If you desire to stay more in the engineering side and you get the MS degree, some companies will be more willing to pay you more because you have that MS.  If you desire to transition more to project management or managing an engineering office, a company will probably pay you more if you have the MBA.  

You have no doubt read the salary reports that state MBA graduates' salaries are in the top 10, or whatever.  Those MBA's are typically people who work for financial organizations or upper management at large public companies, etc.  Harvard graduate MBA's will usually command a starting bonus of tens of thousands of dollars and high starting salary.  You won't see that as project manager of an engineering firm.

What you need to decide is if you want to tend more to the technical side of engineering or more to the management side.  The rest will fall into place after that.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Unfortunately I really think civil/structural engineers dont make that much.  If you really want to make serious $$ with engineering degree, you got to get your PE and start your own firm.  Doing residential work, I cant really see my self earning a lot of moneh unless I become one of the principals in my firm.

If you really want to make $$, forget about MBA or MS.  Go to law school!  I know a firm in Denver that pays 100k+ for first year lawyer.  But they wont even interview you if you are not in top 10 (or 10%, i cant remember).  Also, with engineering degree you can also do patent law.  Unlike PE, you can take the bar immidiately after you graduate.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I think something to be considered is the type of management. If you want to have a complete grasp and understanding of structural jobs, you should probably have an excellent understanding of structural engineering. As for the MBA, if you have people skills and can add & subtract there's tons of project management training out there which costs about a half-semester's tuition of an MBA. It's all up to you, of course, but I am in almost the exact situation. I'm getting my MS on the side but my work schedule is brutal. There's not one way to get to reach your goal but learning in depth calculations on structural systems seems irrelevant to being a project manager.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz,

My personal opinion:

It's not the school. It's the person.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks again for all your comments. As you guys can tell, I kind of figuring out about my career and at the same time kind of confused. Tell you the truth, I want work as a design engineer for next couple of years and get solid understanding of engineering before I move into management position. Maybe as a project manager or senior associates. The reason I want to get my M.S. because most of the S.E. firm out there gives more priority to hire if someone has a MS and at the same time a little bit of salary increase. (Ofcourse in the mean time, I will try to get my PE) I can quit my current job and probably get into a decent school (Top 50-60 engineering program) or I can go to a no name state school while I work where my education will be paid for. Question is when I will be applying for another firm after getting MS, will they look down upon since I didn't came from a decent school ?? another thing, hopefully by the time I will get out of MS, I will have close to 5 years experience with PE. I personally think that will be more valuable for me than if I go to a decent school where I will have 2 years work experience after MS (with student loan). Which one is a wiser path if I want to open my consulting firm some day?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Our clients dont ask where I got my degree from :).  

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

What's an Associate?

I never actually found out. Early in my career I was told it was someone who had a gold key to the rest room. The firm I work for doesn't have any.

Even people I know who have this title won't explain it. Maybe they're afraid to admit they get a bonus.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
From what I've seen and heard, Senior Associates are step below principle. They usually have their PE or SE but they tend to see more of the business aspect of the firm rather than design.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

" Tell you the truth, I want work as a design engineer for next couple of years and get solid understanding of engineering before I move into management position. "

Good luck with "the couple of years" thing. In /hard/ engineering, a couple of decades is the right amount of experience.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks for everyone's input on my situation. I guess going to state school is right path for me since getting M.S. won't give me a huge salary increase and if I work while I go to school, then I will makeup for the loss of 2-3 years work experience, but only draw back is the school.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

to see how not to be see  thread731-169976

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Tut tut dcasto, I may have thought it but I didn't post it.

Be nice or you may get red flagged.

PaKaz, if your employer is paying for it and unless it's a really obscure school I would have thought the answer is pretty obvious and you've found it.  I really don't see the school being an issue but things are different here in the US than back in the UK.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks again guys. So I can conclude that in order to be in a Project manager or Principle position it is wiser to do MS than MBA? But, If I do MBA instead of MS, will company value me as a Project Manager because I will have the both engineering and management background.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

If life consisted of getting pieces of paper from universities and then sitting in an office, yes, they would.

They don't.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz,

What you need depends on what is required of you, for that particular job.

It sounds like you are looking for an exact "cause and effect" answer. I think people are trying to tell you, "it doesn't work like that".

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
I just want to make my decision, and not regret it in future.  
Correct me if I am wrong, M.S. in Engineering will give me advancement in my engineering career, but not much salary wise. After 5-6 years later, it won't even matter. MBA (on the other hand) will deteriorate me from the engineering field, but I will be in the managerial position. But as some of you said, with MS I can be in managerial position. Is this right?


Thanks again for all of your comments on this.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz,
You can be in managerial position with/without an MS, with/without an MBA or with/without a high school diploma.  There is not going to be any one magic formula.  Some companies will look for that piece of paper on your wall, some will look at the work you actually do.  Some companies will prefer MS, some will prefer MBA, yet others will see that MS/MBA and think you are overqualified.  At my company, most of the managers have some kind of masters degree but not all of them.  My wife's uncle is the owner/president of a company with multi-million dollar sales per year and he didn't finish high school.  

The key is that you need to do what you can and want to do.  It won't do you any good to go for the MBA degree if you won't finish or get fed up halfway through and don't learn what you should.  If your interest lies with the MS, do that and use that to your advantage.  Simply having the MS or the MBA will not magically open up the floodgates of salary and promotions.  It is what you do with that education that will lead you in the future.

Oh, and a small correction.  In the structural/civil field, the MS combined with a PE/SE license can lead to large increases in salary with the right company and area of practice.  Good luck with your decision.
Jason

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

It would be best to follow the one that interests you the most. If its the MS, then go for that. If its the MBA, then go for it.

My personal choice would be an MBA, but my situation is diferent from yours.

Go for the one that sparks your interest and you should get the most "bang for the buck" with it.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
I heard that Structural earns the least compare to other Civil Engineering curriculum such as Geotechnical, Transportation or Land Development. Is that true?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

i'm thinking of getting an MBA, but i already have the MS (went straight through).  should i wait until after i get the SE, or does having the PE make it ok considering that the states i plan on working in don't particularly care about the SE.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

lol, yea that's probably true.  but i think it's the most fun, lol.  

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

oh yea, the concept of a decent school is relative.  some people are snobs, while others aren't.  it's nice to see the wide eyed looks, but i doubt there's a huge difference in the caliber of engineer one school produces.  i've had some idiots when i was in college, and i've seen some good engineers come out of schools that weren't in the top 20 or even 50.  maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

PaKaz-I really respect your pursuit of answers-you keep digging, which is the sign of a good engineer.
 
One point I never saw brought up was the issue of marketability within the Engineering community. Ignoring the question of quality of school for MS, the mere fact of having the MS in your back pocket is an insurance policy.

You never know where your path will lead you. You may be plotting a course as Captain of your ship, but sometimes the winds are fickle and may send you a different route than you had charted.

If you intend to stay in California and practice structural engineering, then the MS route (initially) gives you a very solid resume if you should need to find work elsewhere. If you can pull off the MS while working (no easy task, you will be making large sacrifices) then how hard would an MBA be for you?

On the other hand, it seems people being groomed for management maybe don't need a lot of highly specific education. Say you go the MBA route, you will still be working as an engineer until you are promoted to PM, correct? That may be all the engineering you really need once you move into PM work. They don't need to be as technically savvy as people managing the actual design.

Like BelSpringKen wrote: pick the one that interests you more. From what I can tell, the PM/MBA route is potentially a fast track to upper management, meaning more money and more pressure, a lot more.

The MS route can get you to the same place, but will take you longer. I, personally, respect someone more who would go the MS route and what I consider paying your dues. To each his own though. You won't have to care what the little people think once you are in management, will you?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

Isnt a post graduate in project management more relevant than an MBA in todays market?

My understanding is that the MBA is more relevant for running a company, but most other managers in an engineering company are really project managers anyway.

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

1. I found that the MS earned through a research grant, labor in foodservice, and  some debit, reduced my pay vs someone who went to work after their BS and then into work, and is now earning their MS paid by work is far better off. Not cause school is free, but is being paid far more than most dishwashers and bartenders.

2. What you learn when you're there is always far more important than what they are teaching you. This applies to BS as well as MS, and I intend to find out about Phd school.

3. There are always people who went to a better school, drive a better car, and have a better job. Enjoy where you go, have a good relationship with your advisor, and pay attention to what they are trying to teach you.

Nick
I love materials science!

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
Thanks again for everyone's input.

Now here is my next Dillema.
1) I can stay with my current employer for next 3 years and get paid for my schooling but I will not gain any design experience since it's not a design firm. (my work will work around my school time) By the time I will graduate, I will be debt free but no solid hands on design experience.

2) I can go work for a design firm and by having little experience from my current job I will get a little salary bump. I have to pay for my schooling from that money (for state universities, I think can pull it off) but I am gaining the design experiences. So by the time I will be out of grad school, hopefully I will have solid 3 years design experience, but a little debt.

Which one is the better choice?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

If you can handle the debt, go for the better experience.

If you can't handle the deblt, go for the free schooling.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
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RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

I'd go for the experience.  At the end of the 3 yrs, you're marketable, solely on the experience, the degree is simply a bonus.  

If the other route is taken, you've degree with little or no experience, which may, or may not, be a difficult selling point.

TTFN

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RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

(OP)
So, I can go to a top 10 university if I choose to work with my current employer, but If I choose to work for some other companies then I will gain experience but I have to get my degree from a not so retutable school. Is it worth go to an ok school just for couple of year hands on experience?

RE: Career advice for an entry level engineer

If you go to a really, really good school, you won't need the experience to get hired.  They'll come recruiting at the school.  But won't you have to stay a certain number of years with your current employer after they finish paying for your school?

Also you should be able to get merit-based funding from the grad school if you go full-time.  If you don't have house or car payments, or a family to support, you might be able to get enough to live on without supplementing it with loans.

Hg

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