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3D Scanner from Next Engine Question
2

3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

(OP)
We are considering purchasing one of these items and I wanted to poll the masses for thoughts on this thing.  Anybody using one now, and what do you think of it?

https://www.nextengine.com/indexSecure.htm

Thanks,
Bloodclot

***** Fear not those who argue but those who dodge *****

Dell Precision 670
3.0 Ghz Xeon Processor
Nvidia FX3450
3 gig of RAM
Dual 19" Viewsonics

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I saw a cool demo at the Phoenix SW 2007 launch yesterday.  Quite impressive.

With any scanner of this sort, you'll need to consider the disadvantages.  For instance, if you want to scan something like an action figure, I think you'll have difficulties--since the scanner cannot see the under/back side of an arm or leg.  Since that's true, it will also be true for similar geometry where some part of the object obscures or covers another part.  Perhaps by stitching together several scans from several views this can be overcome--something to ask them about.  (See if you can get a scan of a Star Wars action figure or something.)

Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reason trumps all.  And awe trumps reason.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

The software can automatically stitch together different line of sight scans together. This was demonstrated in the demo

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Our company recently got one.

It took us a while before we got it to work properly. We are still trying to master it (or at least use it ''fluently'').

I think it might take us a long time before we scan something as easily as the guy does in the demo video.

(But we can't exclude the possibility that we suck! ponder)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I saw the demonstration and was utterly unimpressed, they used a cube as an example. You have a 3-d scanner, and you use a f-ing cube as an example? Anyway, I walked away with the impression that they are using this TOY, as a marketing ploy to get more people to buy OFFICE PREMIUM.

A JOKE.  Nice try Solidworks.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

While I agree that is was stupid of them to use a cube, I have to say that after watching the demo & seeing the gallery at the above link, "TOY" & "JOKE" were definitely NOT the descriptions that came to my mind.

cheers
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to find answers ... FAQ559-1091

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I saw the demo at the 07 rollout last week. They scanned the top cover from a mouse. It left the edges jagged requiring extra work to fix it.
I would like to see one that would scan all around the part creating an even 3D part.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I have been using the scanner for a few months now, and it is no joke.  After learning the tricks and nuances of the scanner and scan software, scanning a shoe upper is getting to be quick and painless. It takes about an hour to prep, scan and process the data.  Then just a few minutes in SW Premium to convert it to a clean surface file. Upgrading to SW Premium adds to the price considerably but its not absolutely necessary (there are alternative software packages to manipulate a mesh) it has however proved to be an impressive add-in.

Matt

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Not a gimmick by any means, the NE scanner is absolutely worth its weight in gold. Mesh Wizard and Surface wizard are very fast tools to use to come up with useful surfaces quickly. Even if you dont have the scanner the mesh/surface modules is great for creating good quality surface files from programs that are solely mesh modelers.

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Work:Dell Precision 380-PENTIUM D 840-PNY QUADRO FX3450 Drivers 77.56-2GB RAM-SW2006 SP4.1-SW2007 SP0-RHINO 3.0 SP5
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RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

We have just purchased one and using it, so far, is NOTHING like the demo. They skipped allot of the "meat" of getting your part into SW.

First of all, we have all upgraded our workstations to 64bit Windows XP. Well, NextEngine requires 32bit, so I retained one of our older workstations. Unfortunately, I had to then upgrade this older workstation to 2GB RAM and the latest version of USB.

I am paying an additional $3500 for the Office Premium upgrade, so the running tab no this thing is not only the scanner, but the upgrades to the workstation as well as the SW software upgrade.

We are playing with it now, but cannot use the geometry to create machinable parts. For that, we must revert to our microscribe for a timely prototype turn-around.

I'm not dis-satisfied, just telling you all of the hidden little items that may bite you. We are working on getting this up and running, any helpful advice would be appreciated. Also, if you are using it successfully now, I would even be interested in paying anyone a visit to learn up on how it's done right (of course, as long as we're not competitors)

Also, we had to re-install an OLDER version of the NextEngine software because the newset version has bugs. Nice.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

What kind of stuff are you scanning?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Aloha,  I've been discussing a particular job with someone at Next Engine who had provided absolutely wonderful information (its rare to find so much help/customer service these days), so naturally I'm thinking about purchasing the scanner.  One drawback, I'm a Mac user, oh well.  Anyhow, am wondering if I could show any of you who are currently using the scanner, photos of the item and get your advise on:  quality, ease, detail, etc.  I'd be hugely grateful.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

NE may have a good scanner. If the scanner is not quality then garbage in = garbage out. As a long time user of RE software I will tell you its about the software after getting a good scan. Right now SW is making progress towards handling points and polys. But as a parametric featue based MCAD program is does not want to process 10 million points from multiple scans easily (which in RE software takes only three point registration on each scan to align), or work with 15 million polygons once you have cleaned up the noise and triangulated, hole filled, toleranced, and decimated. There is too much overhead with it already being the best at feature based modeling with a supreme UI. I would bring something at the end of the scanning process to SW. Rapid Form Does. It and Geomagic are the Best. Rapid Form XOR is striving to be feature based like SW and SW is striving to be an RE solution. SW will win and it will cost less. SW made a cost effective approach to scanning and it will only get better because they are commited to enhancement.

If you need RE and Inspection and you got 50 for a Minolta Digitizer and $$$ Rapid Form XOR then scan away. (we all don't build turbine buckets looking for crack propagation)

I think the only reason its been called a toy is becuase we haven't been let under the hood completely. Its new and it makes no claims to be a full RE solution, Just a cost effective one for the time being. If I could upgrade and get the Scanto3d I'd probably still use the 3d point import macro, and STL graphics file, seletion filters, and insert curve through reference points.

RFUS

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Display Dave, you hit the nail on the head. You shuck out thousands for the scanner and upgrades, and look what you get! Messy files, you shake your fist at, and still, stuck with non machinable geometry. Granted, IT WILL, get better. But at present the scanner and technology is NOT what it's made out to be by any means whatsoever. The ONLY reason this scanner is being incorporated into SW at this time is to sell more seat of Office Premium, period.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

@Sneakers (Matt):

Hi Matt!
We also have now the scanner and try to scan a shoe. However, the results are poor (lot of holes).... :(
I think we didn't have a right setup. So may I can ask you, how you did the scans?

mickna

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Hi guys,

Michael and I walked through this together, and he's up and running now.

For others interested in scanning shoes, here's the steps we went through
(with pictures from a shoe I scanned).  

1. Run a 360 scan with 7+ divisions (position shoe with corner pointing forward)
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/viewfinder.jpg

2. Assemble the 360 scan, by placing 3+ pins on common features
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/align.jpg

3. Trim gripper + some extra overlap
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/trim.jpg

4. Scan heel and toe using "bracket scans" (assemble + trim like 360 above)
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/setup_bracket.jpg
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/toe.jpg
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/heel.jpg

5. Attach heel and toe to rest of the shoe (for shoes, use 5+ pins)
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/align_top.jpg
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/align_bottom.jpg

6. Blend (manual trimming of extra overlap will increase quality)
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/before_blend.jpg
    http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/after_blend.jpg

Final result:

http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/final_texture.jpg
http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/final_solid1.jpg
http://www.nextengine.com/models/shoe/final_solid2.jpg

Thanks,
Nick
Support Engineer
NextEngine

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Nice job!
What did you do about the inside?

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I would just model from scratch... I think it's a load of crap!

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

???
vince,
His work on the model or the software?
Not a nice comment!
I think he did great work. For what the 3D scanner is capable of, I think Nick went beyond that and did a great job.
I give him a star!

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

ctopher,

I went to a demo on the Z Corp scanner yesterday.  Quite impressive, I must say, but the $40K it costs would be difficult to justify.  The demo consisted of calibrating the scanner, doing the scan and importing into SWX.  After about an hour and a half there was a solid model of one of the oversize fist toys (Thing from Fantastic Four, I believe).  It's absolutely awesome technology, particularly for a first pass at it.

The Scan to 3D add-in really does automagically generate a model.  Granted, it basically plays connect-the-dots with the point cloud data, so you end up with a model with thousands of faces.  The add-in even filled in holes in the scan and completed (with one crappy surface patch) the interior area of the part that the scanner couldn't get to.

If you needed Class A type surface data, you'd have a ton of cleanup to do (and you wouldn't be using SWX), but if you just need to design around something you could do that easily.  You don't need the Premium module, because the scanner does output STL files, which you can import into SWX and get a tesselated model provided your workstation has the horsepower.  The add-in just provides more tools to manipulate the scan data.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Good info, thanks.
you could look into leasing from Z-Corp. I think they have a plan to lease to purchase. if you want to purchase. Sort of like a car. A cheaper way to go if your company wants to try it. Just give it back after the lease.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Sure the shoe may look good, and may even be a water tight polygon model, but dgowans is right. Trying to auto surface those polys in the scanto3d will either crash the system or give you junk. Trying to surface that using curve networks and surface patches that fit to the polys would take weeks. The shoe is only a textured polygon network which has no use in solidworks.

NE Nick- try and sell and demonstate your scanner on places other than this forum.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I'm definitely not sold on the scanner, and won't be for a few years. But, what he did looked good.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

rfus,

I wouldn't say the polygonized model has no use in SWX, it just depends on what you're attempting to accomplish.  If you are trying to reverse engineer a product for the purposes of modifying it and creating something new, you're 99.9999% correct - might as well model it from scratch.  Same goes for trying to re-tool an existing part.

If, however, you simply need to design something around an existing part, the polygonized model will get you something a lot quicker than modeling from scratch.

Bottom line, if you need actual toolable/usable/modifiable surface data from a 3D scan, this product won't get you there automatically.  Then again, SWX isn't the surfacing tool I'd choose for this either.

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I agree that modeling from scratch is always the best way to go. The 3D Scanners are good for rough surfacing a part to work around within SW.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

I agree there is use for polys in SW. It is even very handy with files that have small polygon counts. I commonly bring in a graphics body of polys, while at the same time convert the verticies to ascii delimited points and use the point import macro. With insert curve through ref points i'm on my way.

The shoe looks good, which means it has a high polygon count or is using graphics card shaders. A high polygon count is very heavy on SW. The scanto3d add-in doesn't do that well either, and trying to surface these polys ends up making you wish you hadn't tried. Good RE packages can recreate things like a shoe to the point where parametric feature based geometry can be easily created from the final product.

There are a lot of people out there who don't understand the difference between polygons and nurbs models. They don't understand how hard it is to go from polys to nurbs. the tessalation of nurbs to polys is happening right in front of your eyes every time you use SW.

I'd rather pair that scanner with Maya, or 3ds for some graphics, or try it with some top of the line RE software. The Next Engine scanner may be a good scanner for the money. The Next Engine Scanner may clean up the points and use Delauney triangulation to make a watertight polymesh....but the Next Engine scanner paired with SW is not a good solution to go from polys to nurbs if thats really what you want to do. An hour on google with the work Reverse Engineering will show you the way.

RFUS

RE: 3D Scanner from Next Engine Question

Hi @ll!

Ok, now my view of point:

- As always, there is the question for what you need the scanner. In our case: We wanna get a 3D-Object from shoes to animate them (in Maya and also as lowres for web-content). So there is no need to convert the Poly to Nurbs. Today the scanner is the best solution for our needs. No need to spend 30k (Konica-Minolta) to scan the products and we also have texture informations.

- In my opinion the Software from Nextengine isn't finished yet. There are several points which where either a "nice to have" or are essential (esp. for trimming). However, this is a young product and so I'm looking forward.

- We also need some shoes as a nurbs modell. There I agree to model them from scratch by hand. This takes three days by one guy and we have a fine model with good patches. We have no experiences with solid works and may I'm wrong.

- support: For us it is very important to get a good support. And I can tell you: The guys from nextengine try their best! Thanks to Nick!!! I asked about some hints and get a tutorial he did for me. We use some Software (with no hardware) which costs a lot more than the scanner (inkl. Software) and have no support like this.

Conclusion: If you wanna scan some items for 3D Animations or web content You can't do wrong with this scanner.


Just the first steps:

F50+
http://www.infinitevision.de/CLIENTuploads/guest/F50_a.jpg
http://www.infinitevision.de/CLIENTuploads/guest/F50.jpg


Michael

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