Negotiate for severance?
Negotiate for severance?
(OP)
It seems that a company I interviewed with recently likes me and wants to go ahead with the next step. I've been reading up on salary negotiation and the book suggests I ask for 6 months of severance pay, especially since I'm moving to a new state and a change in career. However, the book is mainly geared for business people, not engineers. Is severance pay a typical thing that engineers negotiate for? If so, how much is fair?
The company is small and has acquired/merged with quite a few companies over the years and has just completed another merge last week. This makes me a bit nervous about my job security.
The company is small and has acquired/merged with quite a few companies over the years and has just completed another merge last week. This makes me a bit nervous about my job security.





RE: Negotiate for severance?
Well, good luck if you can get more than that, golden hellos seem few and far between in engineering, unless you are an ex-Boeing guy.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Six months is a very long severance and I'd be quite surprised if you got it, especially with a small company.
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Anyway, you really need to consider the strength of your negotiating position.
Typically, the details of a severance arrangement is a standard company policy and not something typically negotiated (the common exception being executives).
I think it might put a bad taste in their mouth and could even cause them to reconsider/retract their offer. It's sort of like you're starting out expecting to fail. It just doesn't communicate the kind of attitude I'd like to see.
+ Who approached whom in this situation?
+ Are you a specialist and a great fit for them or are there other people out there that might also be well suited for this job?
+ How badly do you want the job?
I think you'd be better off trying negotiate vacation than severance.
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Whatever you do, be sensitive in your negotiations. Several years ago, I received a job offer that was lower than I expected. I wrote a letter asking them to consider matching my prior wage and explained why I considered it justified. They responded by pulling the offer altogether. In all other cases, I've found companies willing to negotiate but smaller firms can be kind of touchy.
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Negotiate for severance?
However, a company that acts offended or plays the stickler when it comes to negotiating salary would put a bad taste in my mouth. The only way I would think they should act rude towards a request to negotiate salary would be if their offer were way above market, more than you initially indiacted you were looking to make, etc...
In most cases, I have been able to squeeze a few extra thousand out of them. Once, I tried and they were VERY cordial about saying no. I took the job anyway.
But I couldn't imagine negotiating for severance up front. However, I wouldn't mind being in a position to be able to do so. I wish it were more common. I'd like to see the job seekers get a little more pull in things like that.
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
In the UK at any level above the most basic this would be part of the negotiations, six months would be normal in a higher management position or a very specialised role, but high for most positions, this nearly always works both ways.
In the USA is it also normal to have bonuses/ profit share/ share options, medical insurance, company pension contributions, relocation, company car/ petrol card as part of standard negotiations?
RE: Negotiate for severance?
> US. depends on the situation and the job. A cookie-cutter job has little leeway in negotiation. A startup job might be more flexible.
TTFN
RE: Negotiate for severance?
RE: Negotiate for severance?
I've had the following things happen in which companies either lied, changed their story, exagerrated or just pulled the bait and switch:
1) I was promised a certain percentage of sales commission (verbally) then, after doing an excellent job, the sales manager got greedy and decided to keep the lion's share for himself and give me a small piece of cheese.
2) One comapany's benefit was a health plan in which they and I would pay half of my policy premium. My "half" was so expensive it was as if I would be paying the whole thing. There is no way that I believe that what they said was my "half" would really be only half of the premium- it had to be close to, if not, the whole premium.
3) We engineers were promised (again, verbally) a chunk of the savings when we engineered a job so well that it came in under the estimate. We worked, even on holidays and weekends to make this happen. While we knew we came in way under, the company claimed construction costs and other issues made us hit closer to the actual estimate.
From what I have seen, there can be instances of greed and trickery. At the very least, maybe their intentions were good, but for whatever reason they couldn't follow through with their promises.
But how do you hold their feet to the fire and make them put explicite agreements in writing without coming off as an antagonistic person out to create a conflict?
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
As an aside, my wife owns her own company. A partner company of hers (whose owners mentor her and her business partner) advised her not to put too much in writing when recently an employee chose to look for greener pastures. He (the mentor from the partnering company) told my wife to talk to the soon-to-be ex-employeenabout the finalization of pay and commission verbally. Any further questions she could defer to the original employment contract.
So I know for a fact that companies don't always like to put too much in writing.
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Sometimes, companies will give an employee several months or some other amount of their regular pay when they are fired or laid off. Its called severance pay. Say an employee is laid off next week. The company might give him a check worth about 3 months of his pay as they let him go to ease the firing and to give him a cushion while looking for new employment.
I think the original poster meant that while negotiating with the new company for whom he will work, he also wants to negotiate, up front, the amount of money (severance pay) the company will give him should they fire him in the future.
Sounds odd to me. But I sure would like to be in a position to be able to negotiate such a thing. I guess one must have to have a strong position to be able to do that. Thinking back, I believe a salesman at one of my old companies had such a thing negotiated up front. He seemd to be extremely intellectual. Maybe his sales background, his experience and his intellect gave him the ability to make that happen.
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
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This is normally the space where people post something insightful.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
In the UK it's common to get 1 or 1.5 week's pay (tax free) per year of employment rather than some fixed amount (the 1 week might even be by law??). Of course if you're fired and lead out of the building, you'll get your notice period paid (typically 3 months for an engineer).
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Most other “perks” would also be included in this contract, sick pay, holiday entitlement, share options, company car, medical plan and the like. Bonus is often more of a grey area not many companies will state an amount or percentage.
Of course none of this applies if you are flipping burgers, but then I doubt any on this site are.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
If you are (or more accurately your post is) made redundant (a complicated process in larger companies) there are various EU laws that look after you, including statutary payments based on length of employment.
Just leaving or being fired (for misconduct or incompetency) is a different thing - you get your notice, whether you work it or not.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
I on the other hand would have been entitled to about 1 months salary so I didn't stick around to find out!
RE: Negotiate for severance?
We do have unemployment pay, which is pennies on the dollar, but I guess its better than nothing. IF it were too much, who would look for that next job right away?
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Having worked in America, I'm always amazed and pleased at our safety net here.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
· 1½ week’s pay for each complete year of employment when you were aged between 41-64 inclusive
· 1 week’s pay for each complete year of employment when you were aged between 22-40 inclusive
· ½ week’s pay for each complete year of employment when you were aged between 18-21 inclusive. Employment before the age of 18 is ignored when working out statutory redundancy pay.
So 16 years service could be as little as 12 ½ weeks money and even then it is not what you earn it is capped at I believe £290/ week. Even at 16 years at 1-½ weeks per year that still only works out at £6960, which even tax-free I seriously doubt amounts to the equivalent to 8 months money.
This is of course the legal minimum but unless you have it written into your contract that is almost certainly all you would receive. This is why many people negotiate this at interviews.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Typically severance is not given in the US, other than in the following cases:
>>1 or 2 week notice for low-count layoff, as a courtesy, so that you can find another job while still technically employed
>>6 month notice for major plant reductions, required by law, so you have time for retraining/job hunting while still technically employed
>>Percentage based on years of service for plant closings, as a goodwill gesture, would be in addition to the 6 month notice
>>Golden parachutes for high-level executives, negotiated as part of the employment contract, but employment is at will and notice may or may not be given
TTFN
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Unemployment benefit payment is something the government gives you on a monthly or weekly basis (not sure which), but, again, it doesn't amount to much and doesn't last long. Your former company can fight that if you were fired for wrong-doing. I think they have SOME financial responsibility towards the unemployment benefit.
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
Anyway, looks like the OP needs to explain what he means by severance pay, as I certainly (mis) understood him to mean some sort of golden hallo.
In OZ, in the auto industry, typical payouts are between 3 and 6 weeks pay per year of service, I imagine there are various caps on that. I guess the guys at Mitsubishi will be setting the new benchmark.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Still, $11/hour for job hunting is a pretty good deal.
Of course, there's a 4.5% payroll tax to fund it...
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RE: Negotiate for severance?
HVACctrl had it right:
"Sometimes, companies will give an employee several months or some other amount of their regular pay when they are fired or laid off. Its called severance pay. Say an employee is laid off next week. The company might give him a check worth about 3 months of his pay as they let him go to ease the firing and to give him a cushion while looking for new employment.
I think the original poster meant that while negotiating with the new company for whom he will work, he also wants to negotiate, up front, the amount of money (severance pay) the company will give him should they fire him in the future. "
So I wanted to negotiate with my (hopefully) future company several months of pay if they were to downsize or otherwise lay me off. Like I said they just merged with another company and I can easily see them change directions with my job.
But it seems like I need to be further along in my career to negotiate severance. Since it's a career change I'm starting over so I don't have much bargaining power. I'm going from semiconductor (mostly materials engineering) back into my true calling which is mechanical engineering and the only bargaining power I have is that I'm still currently employed.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Oh well, so close. I was really hoping to get the job as I was perfectly suited for it and sounded like I could learn a lot. My fingers are still crossed and hoping they'll call back when they figure things out.
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Ed
www.engineerboards.com
RE: Negotiate for severance?
Besides, the results of their evaluation might still lead them to be interested in your services.
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How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
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