"Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
"Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
(OP)
htt p://observ er.guardia n.co.uk/uk _news/stor y/0,,18594 90,00.html
"Dublin-based Steorn challenged the world's 'most qualifi ed and the most cynical' scientists to put its technology, based on magnetic interaction, to the test."
Note: this is not April 1st but then, Christmass has already started in the high street shops.
They claim (http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/default.aspx):
and see here: http://www.steorn.net/en/technology.aspx?p=5
So, comments anyone?
"Dublin-based Steorn challenged the world's 'most qualifi ed and the most cynical' scientists to put its technology, based on magnetic interaction, to the test."
Note: this is not April 1st but then, Christmass has already started in the high street shops.
They claim (http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/default.aspx):
Quote:
"We have developed a technology that produces free, clean and constant energy.
This means never having to recharge your phone, never having to refuel your car. A world with an infinite supply of clean energy for all.
Our technology has been independently validated by engineers and scientists - always off the record, always proven to work."
and see here: http://www.steorn.net/en/technology.aspx?p=5
So, comments anyone?





RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
"Steorn’s technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The technology can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars."
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
However as star trek is set in the future it would also mean that the chief engineer was an incompetent Scottish buffoon that is too much. I will remain sceptical.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The laws of thermodynamics are statistical in essence. Meaning that -at least in theory- they could be contradicted, but this only with a probability →zero.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Could be, but more like Isaac Asimov's Multivac computer in "The Last Question".
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Yes, but not because of entropy, rather because of human stupidity. For the mathematics, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_argument
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
But at a given distance one simple magnet can induce a rotation movement to other magnet only by magnetic force.
“In physics, a magnetic field is that part of the electromagnetic field that exists when there is a changing electric field. A changing electric field can be caused by the movement of an electrically charged object, as in an electric current; or a combination of the orbit of an electron around an atom and the spin of electrons themselves, as in a permanent magnet.”
“Steorn’s technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The technology can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars.”
Is it Steorn’s technology the Colombo’s egg or one more web a mystification?
luis
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The rotation you mention is a one-time movement to bring the magnet plus whatever you have to a state of minimal energy. After that nothing more happens. You could as well refer to a stone dropping to ground. That is also a one-time movement that only releases as much energy as you needed to lift the stone.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
For you it will be impossible separate two strong magnets
(Magnetic force)
For you, if still young, it will be easy to jump to get an apple from the apple tree
(Gravitational force)
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Wouldn't this device continually increase the total energy stored in the universe? Maybe we're on our way to the next "big boom"?
David
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
htt
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
This subject has already been posted in another forum, along with links to their existing patent:
thread238-163098
TTFN
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
a.) patent will be granted
b.) invention works
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Any way some physics defend that:
“It is well known that in electric motors one component of the constant magnetic field executes mechanical work while the component normal to it receives electric work, in such a way that the total work of the induced magnetic field is null. Let us take two permanent free magnets. The experience demonstrates that one can speed up the other in a variety of ways and, therefore, we have to accept in this case that the variation of a magnetic field produces work, despite the discomfort that the affirmation cause to us because of the statement which says that the induced magnetic field does not product work. How to solve then this problem?”
Fridge magnets don’t have any source of energy so how do they fight gravity?
"All great truths begin as blasphemies".
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
TTFN
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The answer is of course not immediately obvious, and causes hours of fun in pubs and physics classrooms everywhere.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
If you try to tell us that perpetual motion is a reality. Why don't you just say so?
That old magnet trick may fool yourself. But not many other.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Medicine men and pseudo scientists have always managed to fool the masses and always will.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The fact that Steorn hasn't revealed all is no help since instead of being able to de-bunk yet another "gyroscope" antigravity craft, etc etc we are supposed to sit back and be open minded (gullible?) and admit the possibility they may have something we don't yet understand, or we denounce them as charlatans (close minded?) on general principals i.e. all such previous claims are bunk or that they must be violating one of the conservation laws. (about the only ture law or postulate is Barnum's "there's one born every minute!").
If we assume they have an observed effect, we could just assume two things:
1) what the designed didn't work as they expected (they didn't set out to develop this)
2) they have no idea what's really happening, i.e. no explanation for the observed effect
3) their observations are flawed.
I suppose we ought to assume their observation appears correct but is flawed: for example, when they did their energy balance, did they just balance their known energy source with the derived energy or did they consider the interaction witb the surroundings? I mean, this is a "micro-generator with lots of interacting magnetic fields", perhaps they have another energy input they haven't accounted for such as external electro-magentic field interactions or radiant energy... be interesting to know if the observations are verifiable and if the effect is duplicated when scaled up.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Excuse my ignorance but I don’t know what is a conundrum. So I invite you to post this term in the English grammar forum.
I like you all, and this posting is a good exercise for our brains to answer “if Fridge magnets don’t have any source of energy so how do they fight gravity?
This is only to have fun not to get ourselves fool!!!
Science and curiosity without fun is a sadness...
Best regards to you all
luis
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
http://onelook.com/?w=conundrum&ls=a
TTFN
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The law of conservation of energy (mass-energy if you like) has served us very well to denounce perpetuum mobiles (can't think of the correct Latin plural right now) for many centuries, so... open minded, sure, but let's just say that the burden of proof in this case is not on our side.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
thank you
regards
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
h
If anyone understands this, let me know.
It began to sound like a Sci-Fi explanation of FTL travel, or "pseudoscience" and the link to Tom Beardens website was like Von Daniken had risen again.
But Tom Bearden appears appropriatley credentialed and so there may be something in it.
Then again:
The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG)
(http://www.cheniere.org/megstatus.htm)
This appears to predate the Steorn publicity and one wonders if there is a link since instead of saying "Been there, done that, see you in court since i have a patent" Tom Bearden appears to be backing up Steorn:
h
But who are "Pure Energy Systems"?
There again, I am still open to cold fusion being possible (and why not?) Actually, cold fusion seesm to have more credability at this stage.
So I will probably have to leave this to the professional debunkers and just wait until my next mobile phone has a Steorn generator in it before I believe in anything again.
Actually, I am quite a credulous sort, the sort PT Barnum believes in, you might think: I believe my wife when she says she got a bargain, usually a pair of shoes that she never wears. But then again, I never win any arguments on that acount so what hope do I have with perpetual motion and overunity asymetric systems?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
A breeder-type nuclear reactor actually produces more fuel than it consumes. Should we call it a perpetuum mobile ?
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
David
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
The harder I work, the luckier I seem
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
So just how sacrosanct are the laws of physics?
Didn't some great scientist once say "There is no new physics, everything there is to know we now know" only to have the atom split the following day? (was it Rutherford? Kelvin or someone like that?)
So I guess I am not so much open minded and deathly affeared of making a complete ass of myself... of course, this is catch 22 territory.... the alternative is to be just a bit too ready to be open to belive the next charalatan with his better mousetrap...
So, a very good suggestion, Epoisses, I'll wait till it's in the shops and then i can believe it. Until then I'll just nod knowingly and let everyone else make fools of themseleves.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
There is development and there are physical laws. Period.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
In every case that I am aware of the breakthrough was the development of new materials and/or devices, not a change in the laws of physics.
Many of the functions now handled routinely by imbeded computer chips were not possible until computer chips of adequate speed and ability were developed.
No physical laws were broken, although astronomical numbers of electrons were inconvenienced.
respectfully
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
you are right, of course, and especially in this instance, but Spock-like logic is always undermined in humans by emotions.... the brain (and one set of emotions; the "there's no such thing as a free lunch" voice) says that these guys are con-merchants of the first order and then some other little nagging voice asks if you can ever be really certain, and it is that last little nagging voice that sometimes helps you push the boundaries of conventional or received wisdom and come up with something useful....
Following the links on "Overunity asymetric" widgets lead me to the site of Thomas E Bearden, (and who am I to oppose this emminent scientist who assuredly knows more than I even if he were a con-merchant) and from there via a refernce to Gabriel Kron to anti-gravity devices.... http://pesn.com/2005/11/16/9600203_New_Nazi_Bell/
OK so what if none of it is true, its certainly facinating reading.
Back to Thomas E and his article "Chasing the Dragon" where he says (of overunity devices) "The resulting overunity machine accomplishes both room temperature superconductivity and also overunity coefficient of performance (Figure 16). It does not violate the conservation laws of physics. It does not violate the second law of thermodynamics because it is an open system receiving and utilizing excess energy from the vacuum, and the second law need not apply to such systems. [note 18]"
All this leaves us to consider is if there is the energy flow we can tap into.....
Anyway, such topics are always good fun however seriously or not they must be considered. Some of you may even have fun debunking them.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006
which claims the US government is investigating hyperspace engines.....
Whow! how dull life was before the Internet!
And now back to some serious work.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
There are of course plenty of debunking sites out there.... but perhaps the "tell" we are looking for with Steorn is the money angle. They have actually spent quite a bit of someones money on full page newspaper adverts and lots more besides.
Some of these other sites have their books and articles for sale and presumably Steorn will at some point offer shares for sale but I gues the whole point of the big lie is the big payoff... and I am waiting to see what it is.
THomas E has at least has managed to have a US patent awarded for his MEG device; give the man his due, he could be a 419 scammer but instead, he has taken the "big lie" into an art form. The least we can do is enjoy the fun.
(But what does this tell us about the US patent system?)
PS, it's always a nice touch that when these scams fail (i.e. don't deliver, not that the scammers get caught) that there are always "conspiracy" theories to fall back on; the oil giants are supressing just about everything that threatens their oil dollars etc etc.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
Is what this guy has, a revisit of the June issue of the 1970 Popular Science Magazine. regarding permanent magnet motors or the work of Jearl Waler and Paul Monus, or does he have something else?
B.E.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
http://www.hpcc-space.de/publications/
TTFN
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The perpetuum mobile on the contrary... The more desperately an inventor tries to explain how and especially why his invention works, the less credible he is. A real invention is kept secret and sold in opaque little boxes that mere mortals can't open.
RE: "Free Energy" reality or aanother "perpetual motion" scam?
The videos that Steorn has posted on are rather lame. Can't see squat and they're using a Radio Shack DMM, for which you can't even see its display, not that it's that relevant, since they've never shown anything resembling a block diagram or schematic.
Overall, I'm disappointed. If they're real, they're incompetent; if they're scammers, they're incompetent. I could come up with a better video show that what they're shown.
These guys are so lame. Even the magic lubricant guys are better at this; at least, they get someone to use their product for a year, "proving" that there's an improvement in performance.
You would think that in the months of this hoopla, they could have wired up someone's house and run it for a year on a AA-cell or something like that, to prove that it works.
TTFN