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Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

(OP)
I have trouble proof-reading a document when it is displayed on a computer monitor.  It seems that no matter how hard I look it over on the screen I will find errors when I print it out.

Need to know if this problem is just with me or if others experience the same thing?   Is it an age thing?  I’m 50 yrs. old and have been using computers for a long time (20+ years).

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

dogleg43,
You are not alone.  
I finally gave up and just print-out any document that requires my approval.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I work with folks who try to proof almost everything on screen.

That method does not work very well for me(I am 37) and I prefer to check things and work them out roughly on paper first.

We end up finding a lot of things later when we print things out for review.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I've always exeperinced the same problem. Reports, a letter, and (especially) drawings must be printed in order to catch all the errors.

Wes C.
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I switched to an LCD monitor, and find it much easier to proof read on screen.  CRT's feel like they are burning your eyes out after a while.  Save a tree and get a monster big new monitor while you're at it!

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I have noticed more errors on drawings since the advent of CADD.  We have noticed that our techs have trouble checking their drawings while on the screen and now make them print out sheets and check the hard copies.

There is some weird human response thing going on here with how we "see" things on a screen, be it CRT or LCD.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I seem to have noticed the same thing in the past 5 years, but I attribute it to the change that happens in your late 40's where you go from regular glasses to bi-focal or progressive focus lenses. I realize that even now as I type, I don't tilt my head back enough to bring the CRT into full focus. The other thing is I'm not only dealing with the glare of the glasses, but the glare off the CRT.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

The fact that you write crt (I believe it even used to be CRT: with a colon just like A: and B:) proves that it's an age thing! smile

No, just joking, it's a very common problem. Just make sure your printer cable is perfectly straightened out, otherwise your text gets messed up and you will inevitably have errors in the printout that were not there on the screen. big smile

I am waiting for the first IT-tech / physicist / ophthalmologist / psychologist / who know what who can explain it. Meanwhile we'll just keep wasting trees...

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I am only 30 and I print and proof (with yellow high-lighter and red pen in hand) all project documents I create that go officially "on record" (except quickie type emails).  If it happens to be a VERY important email, I will print and proof it as well.  Although if an email is that important, I will generally issue a formal document (which will receive independent peer review on paper) per my company's QA procedures.  I see right thru errors if trying to catch them on the screen.  I've never checked/proofed a drawing on the screen.  In fact, I think I would probably get fired for doing so!!!

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

JAE,

What's CADD?  An error of proof reading perhaps?

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Computer Aided Drafting and Design

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I don't believe this is an age thing, its the way we are "wired".

Fact: You can scan over a paper document faster laying on your desk than on-screen (uh, the document is laying on your desk, not you) and see more of it better.

Fact: You can switch between or compare two or more paper documents faster and better than on-screen.

At my last job I checked drafting work fairly often and told the young, very computer savvy guys with good eyesight over and over "BEFORE you bring this back to me, print it out and LOOK AT IT." It didn't take, and and we spent lots of time chasing smaller and smaller errors.

Paper: There is NO substitute.

Regards,

Mike

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Perhaps a potential application for electronic paper (epaper) would be to 'print' drafts out for proof reading without wasting real paper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's the questions that drive us"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Escuse the ignorance but what's a CRT??

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Cathode Ray Tube

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Your computer screen/monitor.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

CRT = The big box that takes most of the space on your desk, that beeps at you at 15.6 kHz (if you are under 25, above 25 your CRT suddenly becomes silent) and that comes in either green or amber font color. After a couple of months your WordPerfect status bar is burnt into it and dominates the view even when you use another program.
winky smile
the good old days...

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

(OP)
Regarding the term CRT, my wife once recently applied for a job as a bank teller and one of the test questions on the application was if she knew what a CRT is.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Hmmm...was the banking looking the answer Charitable Remainder Trust perhaps?

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I'm 28, done all but a few minor amendments on CAD and all other documenation on Word/Excell etc.

I can't proof on the screen and have to print out.  Flat screen helps some but I still miss a lot so for anything important print it out.

This is one of the things that gets me about paperless office or Model Based Definition, is it possible for most people to check/proof read drawings/documents this way?

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

SnTMan, have you tried working with two monitors? ;) LOL It might help to compare! :)

Just joking, I have the same problem also... :(

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I get the print out versions of all drawings,standards,and purchase orders before I sit down to analyse. I notice that I am not comfortable working directly onthe computer. (I am 52 years.)

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Cardoso, no, that'd just double my mistakes.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Great question dogleg43.

It gets worse when you are composing in a second or 3rd language.  The eye just can't see the errors on the screen.

Cut down a tree and print the document.

rmw

PS: then send it to a landfill to sequester the carbon.

(Don't take the thread there)

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

If just checking the spelling, read the document in reverse (from the end to the begining). That way the brain doesn't get programmed to see what should be there. It sees what is there.

cheers
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to find answers ... FAQ559-1091

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

"If just checking the spelling, read the document in reverse (from the end to the begining)."

I tried this once. I can't do it. My eyes strain and I feel a terrible sense of irritation.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I always keep oneside used papers for proof reading prints and use pencil for correction. I suggest my collegues to use pencil when multiple checks are required for regulatory documents.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

CorBlimeyLimey....tried it once...walked around backward for the rest of the day <g>

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

At college we were charge 5p for every page we printed out.  It focussed the mind on getting it right first time.  A 70 page document would cost £3.50 when it was eventually printed out.  Based on this experience, I think it is possible to proof read on a computer monitor, but it isn't easier.

Now I work and don't have to pay for my own paper, I tend to print out documents for proof reading, especially if I am checking somebody else's work.  There was one young engineer who's work I checked.  I started off by checking it on screen with tracked changes, but found he always made the same mistakes.  When I printed out the documents and wrote on them when things need changing, he stopped making the mistakes because he had to put in work to correct them.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I think it's even tougher to see the errors when making revision changes to a complex drawing.

You know to look at changes you made, but sometimes the big picture isn't there. You know, the flag notes on sheet 1 you haddn't considered, the BOM qtys that are out of sight etc.

A ream of paper costs $1.50 a mistake costs?

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Try changing the font to ariel or sim for proof reading.  When done proof reading change the font back to whatever.  The eye reads ariel better on the screen and reads Times New Roman better on paper.

You also might try looking at the MicroSoft website.  They have some free software that makes the letters appear more clearly and thus easier to read.  Somehow it makes the letters crisper and sharper and easier to identify.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I have the same problem. If a document needs approval from me, I always look at the print-out which I sign of when approved.

Solidworks 2006/DBWorks 2006 user

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I was never very good at reading white on black, I found it more straining than black on white.

In my CAD system you can change background colours of the drawing.  I don't like the really dark colours (which is how the modelling environment is set up and is fine there) but changing to light grey can help reduce the strain a little.

I still like to print hard copies though, even if not full size.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Me at 57-years with no power to change focus from relaxed (infinity) to near, I use -4 diopters spherical correction to turn me from nearsighted to farsighted to see across the room. Using half of that, -2 diopters, printed text becomes clear when moved out beyond 13-inch from eye. Of course screen becomes too far away at 48-inches. If a normal, that is farsighted, person loses his power of accomadation (inevetable) the screen would have to be moved 5 feet away to come into focus and eyes to completely relax. To sit at 18-inch (with relaxed eyes) he would need spherical lens magnifiers as sold for $2 at drugstore.   

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

or 99 cents at the 99 cent store winky smile

TTFN



RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

dogleg43,

   Someone, somewhere claimed that the best editing device ever created was a red pen.  Red pens do not work on my computer monitor, at least, not after the first edit.  :)

   I am 51.  I like to hand E-size drawing prints on my wall.

   I can make a mess red-lining a printout, and then be organized as hell when I bring up the computer file and work on it.  They won't buy me a 60" monitor with .12mm pitch.  Drat!

                            JHG

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

I am just turned 30 (yay) and have never been able to comfortably read pages of text on a monitor, LCD, CRT, big plasma.  Just doen't feel right.

Definitely there with the red pen comments.

The worst of it is when you need to find some info a 200+ page pdf, can't really justify printing it all off so just have to squint and bear it!

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Somebody has to buck the trend here!

I'm one who really prefers proof-reading on the computer. Lately, I have been dealing with documents that are 1000+ pages in length. When you're looking at 60 or 70 times where someone has spelled the word "alignment" as "alinement", it is so great to just use a "find and replace" and not have to worry if you really caught every example.  It's also great when the lawyers have all of a sudden taken objection to the words "reasonable assurance" or some other stock phrase.

I can also use the "find and replace" option to get rid of unwanted fonts and font size changes.

I can also easily check to see if accronyms were spelled out the first time -- or if it's the 50th time its been defined (cut and paste at its worst!).  I can verify reasonable consistency between sections, especially helpful when dealing with multiple "authors."

I can make comments in the text that automatically show in a different color.  I can add comment boxes, I can highlight.  And, at the end, I can produce a "redline/ strikeout" version to show all the changes made.

The only times I long for hard copy is when I'm trying to compare two or three tables at the same time (i.e., did the audit team members correctly translate the information from the application and did the applicant correctly translate it from the standard.) But even then I seldom print things out; I just slog through it.

Though I confess, I often print out drawings.  But I'm looking forward to the day where Adobe will recognize printing on an image so I can search for a valve number and it will take me right to it.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

vpl,

   You are talking about correcting, not proof reading.  If I proof read a computer generated document and observe that they wrote "desinger" everywhere, I can write a note requiring a search and replace.  

                JHG

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

When word processors first appeared in our company the typists would print the documents out then typex the mistakes, as usual .... once I pointed out that the should proof read and correct before printing, the problem was solved and typex became obsolete.
 
Errors only began to re-appear when we lost the typists and had to do our own documents.

I do have the problem of proof reading on the screen.
So for me, its a two stage process, first pass on screen second pass on paper then apply the correction on screen again.

The trouble with this is that I can end up re-editing.
 
JAE :

Quote:

I have noticed more errors on drawings since the advent of CADD."
Is this a "measure twice cut once" thing? When you learn the hard way that errors are a pain to correct, as typists do, you learn not to make errors; hence the "measure twice..." rule but because errors are so easy to correct in a computer, it doesn't require a much trouble to get it right first time.

So in fact, it isn't necessarily harder to proof read on screen but easier to make errors and just a problem with catching them all.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Proof-reading errors while looking at CRT.

Quote:

So in fact, it isn't necessarily harder to proof read on screen but easier to make errors and just a problem with catching them all.

I'm not so sure I agree with that, jmw.  Over the last 12 years or so I've beat my head against the wall trying to "catch" errors that appear in CADD on the screen.  I agree 100% in your "measure twice" concept, but you have to agree that even with that there are numerous coordination issues that crop up when overlaying, say, structural plans on the architectural plans and avoiding the column in the door type stuff.  This goes on all the time with every project, no matter what the discipline and is a normal task of any engineer - to coordinate and check the plans.

But I've instructed CADD operators over the years to twice check their drawings before giving them back to the engineer and yet, over and over again, there are just plain blatant errors that show up despite their checks....and these are long-time experienced structural technicians.  I look at the screens myself - "looks good to me" I say, then plot it out and there's some of the most "obvious" errors that appear on the paper.  

I tell you -there's something to this about the human response ot lines or words on a screen.

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