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Ever feel like you're in over your head?
14

Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(OP)

I'm having one of those days where I just feel inadequate for my job.  I just feel like all of this engineering stuff is too much for my somewhat feeble brain.  I'm not contemplating a career move or anything but I just get like this sometimes.  I just feel like I've gotten myself in over my head.  I was never a straight "a" student in high school and I kind of fell into engineering by mistake while I was looking for a major change in college.  I worked my butt off to finish with good grades and land a job but sometimes I just can't shake the feeling that I'm not smart enough for this line of work.

Anyone else ever get like this from time to time?

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I only start to worry when I don't feel like that.

I've spent most of my career wondering when "they'd" figure out that I'd snuck through...  somehow I keep fooling them.  I think the fear keeps me motivated, and makes me double-check my work more thoroughly.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

4
I feel you might have opened the flood gates here!
Member number 3!

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

bradpa77
I totally agree with ivymike.  This is a hard job, and there is no way to know everything.  I keep telling myself that "when the going gets tough, the tough get going."  Getting going might mean doing research, getting expert opinions, thinking really hard (sometimes for days), drawing something to a large scale, etc.  Getting going might also mean telling my boss that I am being asked to do something that is out of my discipline.

If you run across something you cannot solve, it is important to be vocal about it early in the project.  Don't just sit on it until it is too late.  

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

In the structural arena, there has always been, for me, an underlying sense of dread that some other structural guy will eventually "find me out" and expose me for an inadequate engineer.

This sense has slowly diminished over the years and now I do realize just how similar we engineers are in terms of self-identity and self-confidence as well as how we think, what we know, etc.  This Eng-Tips site goes a long way to showing how similar we all are.

bradpa77 - don't know how many years experience you have, but if you are fairly young, I'd suggest you just keep plugging along and do your best.  You will probably find your best is beyond what you imagine.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I was having one of those days a few years back and I received  some sage advice from a wise old plumber. That advice turned into my Eng-Tips handle.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I think that you SHOULD feel that way, otherwise, what are you doing but repeating something you've already done a million times?

Ignoring the intellectual satisfaction, new challenges and exercising your "little gray cells" is purported to reduce the risk of getting Alzheimer's.

TTFN



RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?


I read recently that 'FEAR' is by far the biggest motivator in modern (working-middle class) society.

As my dad would say, "Welcome to life."

Wes C.
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?



The first thing my first boss told me was that I'll never feel comfortable.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

did he follow that up with "so get used to it?"

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I just worked a wing repair and had very small margins.  My DER and the FAA approved it and everything is fine (double and triple checked after my own scrutiny).  The aircraft has been flying without any issues.  BUT, I sometimes envision the wings folding up.  YIKES!

I worked with a great stress analysis guy that has a nickname, "The King".  He also told me about dreams he has that are similar.

Do your best.  Accept advise from others and stay humble.  You will go far!

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

bradpa77:
Don't worry, most engineers feel like you do. I do. That's why there are several fields within an engineering field. For example, in my case, I mostly work on high power for buildings, but how about doing big "electrical" substation, or when they talk about electronics. When I get electrical plans like those, I have no idea what are they talking about sometimes (even though is electrical engineering related) However, I agree with the above comments, when you have "fear" about a design you double or triple check it, ask some questions here and there,  that's engineering, avoid failure, making sure its done right.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(OP)
smile

Thanks guys.  That's the sort of responses I was hoping to hear.  I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who sometimes gets overwhelmed at work.  Keep the great replies coming, they are helping me to feel much better. Thanks.

smile

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Some thirty years ago I joined a fledgling company as their first and only design engineer. The owner would take on any job/contract that he could lay his hands on - anything from missile test rigs to machines for mining coal, archery arrows to air bearings. The number of times I felt completely inadequate and totally alone not knowing anything at all about the technology of the particular projects is innumerable. When I tried to point this out, my boss used to say words to the effect 'We've got the contract so if you don't know about it then find out' - it always worked, I've even shot down one or two so-called 'experts' along the way and built up my own reputation in certain areas.
Yes, bradpa77 you are certainly not alone, you have to keep exercising your brain cells and keep plugging away all the time in engineering - it would be boring otherwise - you might surprise yourself and people will start to look up to you and consult you for your knowledge.
All the best

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(off topic - )

Gaufridus, sound like you have a frigging fantastically cool job! Sign me up!

Wes C.
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I've never felt adequate, yet for the last 25 years, I've worked all over the world, and they still hire me !   You know you'll shine on some days and some projects, and on some you wont.  Just be humble enough to know you can learn from everyone you meet, and if you do the right thing every time, you cant go wrong.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

10 yrs ago, I didn't know anything about laser designation systems; now, I'm the expert.

muuhaahaahaahaa!! laser

TTFN



RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

In my experience, the most dangerous people are the ones who believe they DO know all the answers and are totally confident they're right.
The best boss I ever had told me that the trick to being able to sleep at night is knowing what you don't know, and never being afraid to say you've reached the limits of what you do know. That way you put yourself on the path of continuous learning which to me is the adventure of engineering.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Every now and again it occurs to me that I just answered that guys question without having to refer to my notes or check with someone else and maybe, after all, I do know a little bit about what I'm doing and I have learnt something over the last 5 years. Then something else will come up and I have to go get advice from someone else coz I don't know the best solution.

I'm hoping the balance will eventually tip more towards the former than the latter but I'm sure that both will be in the mix for the rest of my career.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I welcome projects where I've never been before.  I add in a bit to the bid for some boning up and exhibit extreme confidence that I almost never really feel.  I've found that some things really are impossible (but there is often a good-enough substitute) and that clients will often be happy that you abandonded a dead end in favor of an approach that will save them considerable cost over time.

I did a project once that had three key concepts that had never been "solved" by anyone.  When I bid on the job I outlined my approach to solving them and described the uncertainty of my being able to solve them.  The project was approved and the first black hole turned out to be pretty tough but solveable, the second was impossible (for me) but there was a work around, and the third turned out to be a subset of the first.  The project cost millions and returned billions.  Everyone was happy.  They never knew how frightened and uncertain I was at the kick-off meeting.

David

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(OP)

Quote:

In my experience, the most dangerous people are the ones who believe they DO know all the answers and are totally confident they're right.
The best boss I ever had told me that the trick to being able to sleep at night is knowing what you don't know, and never being afraid to say you've reached the limits of what you do know. That way you put yourself on the path of continuous learning which to me is the adventure of engineering.

Wonderfully said.  I couldn't agree more.  I gave you a big fat star for that one.  I'm glad someone reminded me of that.

I totally agree that over-confidence can be a dangerous thing.  I have a co-worker here who is a know-it-all.  He just seems so smart.  He always has the answers.  He always believes his answers are correct.  He very good at convincing everyone that he is correct.  But just like everyone else, he is human and cannot possibly know everything.  The truth of the matter is that he is extremely good at bs.  He is one of the reasons I get down on myself and I sometimes forget that he just likes to sound smart and spout out bs so he looks good to the bosses.  One of these days he might get himself in trouble with his over-confindence.  

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

you sound a bit jealous now...

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(OP)

Quote:



you sound a bit jealous now...


Who are you refering to?

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Once in a while, when I get a conflecting opinion on a technical subject (usually an engineering judgement), I talk it out with my peers.  Sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong.  But, being able to talk out the technical issues helps sort it out.  

That is what makes this web site great!  If you need an opinion YOU GET IT!  

If it is totally a technical problem, and your stumped, still talking it out with someone will sometimes present an answer or approach to solve the problem.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

who?  whoever it was that said " I sometimes forget that he just likes to sound smart and spout out bs so he looks good to the bosses"

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Bradpa77
        I was thinking that your problem was more environment than anything else. That is why I like working with a good team and hate working by myself. There is no one to improve on your ideas or share in the risks.

        A good boss can make all the difference in building your confidence or making your question your every decision.

        A process that has checks and balances also helps. If there is none to check your work or approve things every problem is turned into a personal issue instead of a risk of doing business.

        The way thigns seem to work is that once you get good at something you are given something new to learn how to do.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

(OP)

Quote:

who?  whoever it was that said " I sometimes forget that he just likes to sound smart and spout out bs so he looks good to the bosses"

Oh, ok.  That was me.  I just wanted to make sure that comment was directed at me before I responded.

You just have to trust me on this one.  I've known the guy for almost 5 years and I can say with certainty that half of the stuff out of his mouth is BS without a doubt.  I know this because I have caught him numerous times talking about things that are flat out wrong with just as much confidence as if he was an absolute expert on the subject.  I just can't stand it.  nobody knows everything and I have never heard the words "I don't know" come out of his mouth.  If you ask him a question, he always has the answer.  Even if it's a question that really has no "correct" answer.

Is it jealousy?  No. I'm not jealous of the guy.  I don't want to be like him at all.  I just can't handle people who try to razzle and dazzle the bosses with fake information.  I just hope my bosses are bright enough to see through it because I would be livid if he got promoted to some management position or something because of his ability to sound smart.  

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

In my admittedly cynical experience, it's the ones with the bs that appear on management radar as promotion candidates, whilst the ones who can do the job and get on with it are left to their own devices since they are "more important where they are"! Management easily confuse "qualified/competent" with "indispensible" making your passage up the rungs of the corporate ladder difficult in the extreme !

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I work with a guy like the BSer.  When I first started I remember we were talking about something that was towards my speciality and a few mins later he came up with something suggesting my idea was wrong.  His comment was valid for many instances but there were some exceptions.  Anyway, later on I wanted to find some information quickly to back up my point b/c I was new and 100% sure...so I went to google clicked on the first link and right at the beginning was a comment almost word for word to what the BSer had made.  


So remember everyone can use google.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

bradpa77, you are not alone. I always worry that the bearings I suggest my customer may not work. Mostly they do and the ones that don't tell me to go and learn more!!

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Here are a couple of goodies.

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt. – Mark Twain

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

My wife and friends don't understand why I sit at my desk (home office) working out equations and reading my engineering books.  It's because the fields of engineering and technology are constantly changing.  I consider it an investment in my future

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I have to agree with several posters about appearing confident at first (especially when dealing with clients) and then scrambling to learn all you can about the topic.

According to non-engineers, we're expected to know what we're talking about, why disappoint them ;)
Although being prepped for further questions (by studying up) is also great.

Continuing education is the reason I like this career. The BS is why I love it ;)

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Quote (ziggi):

Continuing education is the reason I like this career. The BS is why I love it

Nice quote ziggi.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

There's nothing like writing a proposal to gin up some good BS.

TTFN



RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I started my career very unsure of myself.  As I went through a few years, my confidence grew.  After a couple more, I was an expert at what I did.  I could persuade (read force) people to see things my way, be they a contractor, supplier, or other engineer.  I was also the go to guy for technical questions in my office, and mentored the people younger (not by much) than me. It felt great, until it got boring.

I decided to look for something where I could grow further.  I moved, do similar work to a portion of my last job, with very different soils and people overseeing my work.  I am now back to where I started: unsure, and often wondering if they will keep me.  I know I am doing a good job, but it feels different than knowing I am on top.  Oddly enough, it makes me feel like I am progressing.

You will only stop struggling when you stop climbing the learning curve. It also means you are not getting any smarter.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

We are drifting off topic, but I certainly agree that the continuous learning (and hence continual feeling that I am out of my depth, just slightly) is what makes it interesting. Five years ago I jumped into the deep end, as I was a bit bored with my previous job, and it has been the best career move I've made in a long time.

I'm a bit puzzled by this BSer. If he really is wrong HALF the time then he is very lucky to have survived 5 years. In which case I am reminded of Heinlein's quote "It is better to be lucky than clever".

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

JAE...I thought I was the only one who harbored that fear!

bradpa77...I've been doing this for about 30 years and just as others have said, it's that fear of being wrong, being inadequate, or just being a little less smart than the next guy that motivates and drives us.  It's the inherent dilemma of a problem solver...which is exactly what we are.

To me, almost everthing is a challenge...some are small challenges that get resolved with almost no second thought, while others get close to brain damage...but I get charged up by the process and the solution.  I thoroughly enjoy being an engineer (OK...maybe some of those challenges did some brain damage).  If I were smarter I'd be doing something else that makes real money!

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Only teenagers and fools know everything. I once worked with a guy who had a great saying for his teenage son “One day son you will know as little as me”

Isn’t feeling slightly out of your depth what makes our jobs fun? Just as you think you have mastered one small thing someone comes along with a new process and you are back to square one again.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

2
You don't have to be wrong half the time to be a menace.  I had a co-worker who was wrong maybe 5-10% of the time.  But that meant he couldn't be trusted ANY of the time, since you never knew whether you were getting part of the 5% or the 95%; he uttered both truth and crap with equal confidence.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

ajack a star for you for this quote,

"Only teenagers and fools know everything. I once worked with a guy who had a great saying for his teenage son “One day son you will know as little as me”"

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I once read a book titled "To Engineer is Human".  The book pointed out how engineering failure has lead engineering break threws.  

Realizing that sometimes you don't know exactly what you are doing forces you to dig deeper and often times leads to new discoveries.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

To me, an engineer needs to display confidence that he knows what he is talking about, even if he displays confidence and then studies up later, as ziggi suggested.  If I do not know 100% of what I am working on, I spend the time to learn it.

That is one of the great things about engineering jobs, your job is to keep learning.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

2
I've never understood exactly what I'm doing. All these equations we do are just circles we draw around around horribly complicated phenomena in the hope we catch it all. God knows what exactly is going on.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Tomfh....shhhhhh...you're not supposed to tell everybody that!<g>

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Yep-you opened the flood gates. I too sometimes get in over my head. No advice to offer but along the lines of being in over your head I have an observation that goes along with that and wonder if anyone else has seen this.

In my expeience (Aerospace/Defense mainly) we very often have to provide analysis in advance of testing as a formal contract item to the customer. And in other instances the customer may have to supply us analysis data to assist in our design. What I have found over the years is that many engineers are very reluctant to supply detailed calculations outside their own organization and become very defensive and argumentative when any of their assumptions are questions. Is it insecurity? Anyone else seen this?

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

"To me, an engineer needs to display confidence that he knows what he is talking about, even if he displays confidence and then studies up later"

Displaying confidence when you don't know what you're talking about is DANGEROUS.  Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, stupid, and a bad idea.

The only exception to this is if you're confidently giving what you KNOW is a conservative approach that will work, and what you don't really know is whether there's a less conservative way to do it.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I believe it was Werner von Braun who said "basic research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Also works as a BS line.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Unless an engineer has had advanced education in material properties, chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc… I believe it is impossible for an engineer to really understand what he/she is doing.  We (engineers) are basically glorified calculators.  We utilize commonly accepted theories and mathematical principles to generate approximate models of the physical world.  So…in many ways…we do not have a clue what we are doing.  Engineering is much more an art than a science.  I always assume I’m in over my head.  

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Learn to roll with the punches....remember, you've come this far and are doing fine...embrace that confidence. In the event that you come across a problem that you haven't seen before, trust yourself that you have the talent and skills to solve it. After 15-to-20 years of hanging in there, only then, you just may be able to relax~lol.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Confidence does not necessarily imply all knowledge all the time.  My customers have confidence in me precisely because I tell them when I do know something and when I don't know something.  It helps to have more situations where you know and fewer where you don't know.  

It also helps to know what you know in intimate detail.  That instills confidence.  But, you also need to know how to distill that detail for your audience.

Conversely, there's nothing more disconcerting than to see an engineer looking puzzled when he's staring at his own Powerpoint charts.

TTFN



RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

HgTX,

I am not condoning making decisions when you do not know what you are talking about, that is stupid and dangerous.

But, you can display confidence without making stupid, forced decisions, if you do not really know what you are doing.  

On the other hand, if you look like you have no clue, doesn't matter if you learn it in the future or not, nobody will ask you again.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Bradpa,

I felt like that about ½ - 2/3 of the time at my last job (my former colleagues may argue I was out of my depth most of the time) and almost all the time at my present job.

I tried telling my current manager this and he basically laughed

While I get the idea of being stretched etc leading to growth sometimes I think I’d like an hour or two off the rack!winky smile

Being stretched in my own field or in a field where I think I can either learn or find someone to help is one thing.  

Being stretched in a field I know nothing about, no one in the company seems to know much about and the supplier only understands their product, not how we’re going to use it, pretty much sucks.

OK, flood gates sured up for now.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I share HgTX's sentiments, but none of my employers felt the same way. If I told them that I feel "out of my depth" they will give me grief and turn the projects over to someone else who just does it and keeps their mouth shut. After 20+ years in engineering, I've come to the conclusion that is just the way the engineering business is. I have managed to meet some folks who do designs without any real formal calculations. Hopefully their work will never be taken to its design limits. But I guess the employer's feel that's what insurance is for. Too Bad.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

I'm very glad to have read through this topic, since days like this have happened to me, also. The thing I love about the job is the constant challenge, even when I'm figuratively chewing my nails to the wrists over some technical point of disagreement with other engineers. Even at the worst of times, though, I'd rather be challenged than bored. If I get too far toward drowning, I know there are resources to go check, other engineers who might be willing to toss me some advice, and if all else fails, the option to say I need further training or tools or time.

I try do do my own training and get my own tools to make some progress all the time, but if I haven't guessed correctly which details I might need, I've found asking for more time and applying copious skull-sweat generally does keep me and my work well on the safe side. If it didn't, I'd fess up. I'd rather be let go than have someone get hurt or dead. I've only had to do it once, but I'd do it again despite how hard it was.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Quote:

If I get too far toward drowning, I know there are resources to go check, other engineers who might be willing to toss me some advice, and if all else fails, the option to say I need further training or tools or time.

The going really gets really tough when those resources just don't exist ... yet.  There simply isn't anyone to ask and no amount of training can help.  You are responsible for solving some previously unsolved problem, or coming up with a new process.  This is when lateral thinking and analogy with other areas comes into play and makes the job exciting, if a little scary.

RE: Ever feel like you're in over your head?

Over my head?  I'll let you know as soon as I get the chance to come up for air. wink

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