'62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
'62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
(OP)
Hi all,
First post here and have a question about this old ford V8. It's a reverse rotation 221 Ford Eaton Interceptor in a Chris Craft that I rebuilt several years ago and it hasn't run right since! Well, actually, it has been parked for almost the whole time due to in-laws health issues (it's their boat) and I just hauled it home to figure out what's wrong.
Basically, it runs like it has a real bad vacuum leak: won't idle for squat, stalls when you try to accelerate, and the vacuum reading is down at like 8. I finally found a reprint of the owners manual and it says this engine came with either mechanical OR hydraulic lifters. I know I put hydraulic lifters in it when I rebuilt it (and stupid me, didn't verify what was in the thing) but according to the engine ID number I now know it should have had mechanical lifters. Would the wrong lifters have a big effect like I am experiencing?
Background: Engine rebuilt because a couple piston got burned due to (I suspect) being run on old gas. Replaced several pistons, rings, rod and main bearings, timing chain and gears,and had the heads reworked.
Any input appreciated.
Ron
First post here and have a question about this old ford V8. It's a reverse rotation 221 Ford Eaton Interceptor in a Chris Craft that I rebuilt several years ago and it hasn't run right since! Well, actually, it has been parked for almost the whole time due to in-laws health issues (it's their boat) and I just hauled it home to figure out what's wrong.
Basically, it runs like it has a real bad vacuum leak: won't idle for squat, stalls when you try to accelerate, and the vacuum reading is down at like 8. I finally found a reprint of the owners manual and it says this engine came with either mechanical OR hydraulic lifters. I know I put hydraulic lifters in it when I rebuilt it (and stupid me, didn't verify what was in the thing) but according to the engine ID number I now know it should have had mechanical lifters. Would the wrong lifters have a big effect like I am experiencing?
Background: Engine rebuilt because a couple piston got burned due to (I suspect) being run on old gas. Replaced several pistons, rings, rod and main bearings, timing chain and gears,and had the heads reworked.
Any input appreciated.
Ron





RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
I had not thought of leaving the hydraulic lifters in there, it's an interesting idea. But, I will do as you suggested at least to see if it improves how it runs. Thanks for the input.
Ron
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
These can be problems with rarely used boat engines.
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
First is the valve adjustment. A 62 221 solid lifter block has the same oil feed as a hydraulic lifter block so there is no issue there. It also has adjustable rocker arms so you can get yourself out of this fairly easy. Each lifter needs to be on the base circle of the cam when the rocker is adjusted. Pull the spark plugs. Back off the rocker nut to where you have just a little bit of clearance and bring it down to 0 lash, then give it about 1/2 of a turn and you will be in the ballpark for pre-load on the lifter. It's best to find the center of the base circle by bringing the engine around where that rocker is up and putting a breaker bar on the crank, and moving it one way until the rocker moves, and then the other way until the rocker moves, and split the difference. You can also do the valve adjustment dynamically while the engine is running by backing off the adjustment until it "clicks" and bringing it down 1/4 - 1/2 turn, but it makes a hell of an oil mess, and in a boat it would be a total PITA.
A few other things to think about; You never should install new (or different) lifters without changing the cam. A cam lobe and lifter wear in together from new and after initial start-up are a matched pair. New lifters on an old cam will waste the cam in short order. The same goes for swapping used lifters hole for hole.
Being a reverse rotation engine may bring you abnormal issues with a stock replacement timing chain and gear set. Some gear sets have built-in advance or retard and this will be reversed in a reverse rotation engine (2deg advance will be 2deg retard etc.). I would make sure that the gear set is set up at TDC 0deg. Any good aftermarket set should be cut this way when set at 0deg..
All SBF windsor cams will interchange physically so even though it's a 62 221 a 69 351W reverse rotation cam will slide right in. Of course you need the correct specs but any cam company that does marine cuts can provide parts for you. Not as obscure as it sounds - a good thing.
If you need specific help feel free to PM or e-mail me. Vintage Fords, and especially Vintage Ford engines are my thing. cosa@teleport.com
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
Vintage-You brought up a good point about the cam gear set that I also asked the "parts guy" when I ordered the stuff for the engine and he assured me the gears are stock, normal rotation items. But, then again he got me the hydraulic lifters and said it's no problem replacing just the lifters!
I know I can borrow a friends degree wheel but I have never been able to find any specs for this cam. I found a procedure for degreeing in the cam but I don't know what this cam should be set at. Are there any standards for this type of engine? What kind of numbers should I expect?
Thanks, Ron
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
The early fords just didn't convert directly from solid to hydraulic in a drop in fashion you really need to tweak the engines oil flow.
Its my guess without actually seeing the problem first hand that you don't have enough pressure in the lifters to set the valve train properly limiting your lift.
http://www.prnewsnow.com
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
GunMuse - I'd have to dissagree with that. All Windsor-based SBF's have the same oil track in the block, solid or hydraulic lifters. On this particular 221 Ford changed from solid lifters to hydraulic in late 1962 and made no changes to the block. Also the 271HP solid lifter 289's have the same system and hydraulics are a drop-in in those.
The oil pump feeds through the filter and then across the front of the block to a main passage that runs aft all the way to the back of the block. This passage has drops for the main bearings. At the back of the block it is drilled up through one lifter oil passage to a 'boss' in the back of the lifter galley where another passage angles back down to the other lifter passage. Both lifter passages run all the way forward from there to the front of the block and are plugged at the front. These 2 passages are drilled straight through the lifter bores on each side feeding the lifters. Oil pressure is ducted (term?) right around each lifter in a slot ringing the outside of the lifters.
To increase main bearing pressure in a race-only solid roller lifter engine you install that restrictor plug deep in the vertical passage that feeds up to the 'boss' at the back of the lifter galley, and also install restrictor plugs into the main bearing saddles in the 5 cam bearing feeds that run straight up out of the main bearing saddles.
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
thnx, jv.
RE: '62 Ford 221 valve lifter question.
But the snap rings in the lifters are not designed for that service.
You need to change either the cam or the lifters.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA