Chemically removing IC identification??
Chemically removing IC identification??
(OP)
I was wondering if there was a way to chemically remove the identification off ICs, as a method to prevent (discourage) reverse engineering? I know I could sand it off, but that takes time, and just looks bad. Ideas? I've tried brake fluid and brake cleaner... I'll just keep throwing things at it until it works, unless I get other suggestions. Thanks!





RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Removing IC numbers will not protect a circuit from being reverse engineered. It is relatively easy to find out what class of function it performs and then it is only a matter of probing the pins to see what is going on and in what circuit number. There are even IC testers that automatically identify the IC.
So, if you really think that your circuit is very valuable and unique, you shall apply for a patent. Or, which is a lot cheaper, put it in an FPGA or similar package. If it involves analoge circuitry. an A/D and a DSP may help keep your valuable secret from being pirated.
BTW: Do you down-load music, videos, games?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Removing the numbers is a good way to keep the general low-budget copycats from reverse-engineering your circuit. In a sense, you only need to put up enough defense to discourage a copycat from copying. However, for a larger or better equipped reverse-engineering effort, lack of identifiers only slows them down a little.
Depending upon who you think may want to copy your product, patents may not be a defense either. You have to discover you are being infringed upon, and then bring suit. A very co$$tly proposition for which costs are frequently not recovered. It's the small fly-by-night outfits (low assets) that you might be prosecuting. You can't get blood out of a rock. Large organizations will tresspass on a patent in some cases if the market has potential, and they anticipate they can settle by exchanging patent licenses out-of-court.
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
The only remotely possible solution is to create a package that performs some essential integral function that gets destroyed upon the processing used for reverse engineering. One such possibility is to embed critical interconnect in the package. A plastic package with embedded, doped polymer interconnects might be challenging to reverse engineer. Even then, it's unlikely that someone who is sufficiently motivated, can't reverse engineer it.
The Soviets famously reverse engineered the 8080 microprocessor in the late 70's. The story was that they were unable to do a particular part of the processor and had to come up with an alternative that showed up as a massive change to the IC layout.
There was a thread about this subject a couple years ago; I think it was in the semiconductor engineering forum, but I'm not positive about that.
Now, one reasonably robust approach is to use embedded flash memory that's locked from external readout. This would require someone to have relatively expensive e-beam probing capability to reverse engineer.
TTFN
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
I often remove IC labels, most often when dealing with flaky customers. If I can even vaguely guess they are unscrupulous, say they screw with payment terms, any protos handed to them are erased. I also don't care what it looks like! In some cases I want them to actually realize my intent and "get the picture". I once had a scummy customer who wanted schematics because they "couldn't read the packages". They got nothing as the original agreement gave them no rights to the design, they weren't supposed to even care because we were going supply the product. (They weren't paying correctly.)
In these quick and dirty cases the Dremel tool works fine.
For production there are many places that can do it for about $0.10 per device. They use marking lasers to do it. It looks entirely factory and they can even change the labeling for you. You hand them a tube of parts and they hand them back the next day.
I don't remember the name of the place near me but I'd look it up if you want me too. They gave me a business card that was a laser engraved piece of stainless sheetmetal. I remember because it was kinda scary to handle (sharp).
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
So I guess the general concensus is that it's a laser etching? Would I need something nasty like nitric acid to remove it? What dissolves the plastic?
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
TTFN
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
TTFN
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
No solvent will dissolve them.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Mike; I recently visited a company that makes a tool that is an automated IC package remover. (that's all they make)
You drop the IC into a little holder, close the lid, press the button, and it bathes the IC with any number of heated acids.. The plastic all leaves, thermosetting or not. You can dial a depth even. They say it's ostensibly for depackaging for "failure analysis". And I say, "suuuuuure it is"...
http://www.nisene.com/jetetch.shtml
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Obviously, the identical processing results in a layer-by-layer dissection of the part for reverse engineering. However, the market for such a machine for this purpose is actually quite limited. It used to cost about $100K to reverse a complex part, so most people who are interested go to house that specialize in this sort of thing. The package removal machine is probably the cheapest part of a more expensive lab that's equipped to do this, e.g., other etchback machines, SEM, CNC-microscopes, mass spectrometers, CAD programs, etc.
TTFN
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
They'll import ... one.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Had a customer who sent a 15.2 million dollar machine to Asia. The techs were told they could not be in the building during 9-12pm one night. They left at 8:30pm. After remembering a forgotten tool they returned at 9:30pm (after dinner) to pick it up. They were shocked to find over 30 people crawling over the partially disassembled machine with cameras, micrometers, huge two handed calipers, and an army of clip boardists..
Really disgusting.
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
And copy it!!
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Boiling concentrated sulphuric acid.
Bye bye package.
Wonderful for failure analysis...
'Eck, that takes me back.
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Chemically removing IC identification??
Use a custom/GAP/etc. part marked with an off the shelf
standard IC-s part #
Plesae read FAQ240-1032
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