First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
(OP)
Got offered a position as a Controls Engineer with a fairly large ($18 billion) tech company that has fingers in lots of pies, mainly IT but has this engineering division. Job location is in a large town (250k pop.) in rural south GA.
They're offer is 48k plus from what I can tell decent benefits which they estimate to be worth 15k.
401k equivalent (call it matched asset plan) I can put in 15% of base they will match 50% of first 3%. Medical/Dental/Vision/Prescription, 3% after tax pension, 2weeks vacation (rolls over), life insurance, disability etc.., education compensation 5,200 yearly.
I've been researching salaries, asked fellow EE grads from GaTech. EE's overall are reporting 51k average starting. Controls seems to command a little more ~53. All my friends who are doing controls stuff seem to have started out lower or with worse benefits.
I have the following as leverage, company offered another Tech EE, he turned it down, they had to start the process over again. I was the only one out of 6 that knew what PLC's were and only one that got a second interview.
They were looking at either experienced or entry level, chose entry level. So perhaps they may be willing to pay more.
I have another phone interview this Friday about another manuf. controls job in Des Moines.
I still have some other leads, though no other offers.
I have a specific background in controls vs. general EE degree.
What do you guys suggest ? I want to say to them, that if they make a strong offer in the 50's I will commit to the offer.
They're offer is 48k plus from what I can tell decent benefits which they estimate to be worth 15k.
401k equivalent (call it matched asset plan) I can put in 15% of base they will match 50% of first 3%. Medical/Dental/Vision/Prescription, 3% after tax pension, 2weeks vacation (rolls over), life insurance, disability etc.., education compensation 5,200 yearly.
I've been researching salaries, asked fellow EE grads from GaTech. EE's overall are reporting 51k average starting. Controls seems to command a little more ~53. All my friends who are doing controls stuff seem to have started out lower or with worse benefits.
I have the following as leverage, company offered another Tech EE, he turned it down, they had to start the process over again. I was the only one out of 6 that knew what PLC's were and only one that got a second interview.
They were looking at either experienced or entry level, chose entry level. So perhaps they may be willing to pay more.
I have another phone interview this Friday about another manuf. controls job in Des Moines.
I still have some other leads, though no other offers.
I have a specific background in controls vs. general EE degree.
What do you guys suggest ? I want to say to them, that if they make a strong offer in the 50's I will commit to the offer.





RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Is the work something you would be interested in doing? Is the position able to grow? Learn new applications? Develop new products?
The money and benefits are good. You've even said yourself that your friends with a controls education have started out worse.
In today's market, although it is getting better than 3-6 years ago, don't wait for something better to come along. It may not come. This is a good salary and benefits.
Ask them what frequency are your reviews. When I started, my first review was at 6 months, and I got a raise. My second review was 8 months after the first, and I got a raise. Then the standard 12 months after that.
For a city of 250k in Georgia, this is very good pay and benefits. Have I stated that enough?
However, if you don't think you'll like the work, look elsewhere. Good luck.
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RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
The carrot they keep dangling is that as an entry level engineer I will get 3 6month performance evals and each time I have a chance to get a 10% raise. So if all goes well in 18 months I could be making 63k.
The job seems a bit claustrophobic. It is a support/maintenence engineering position on Allan Bradely PLC's and SCADA systems. I will spend 50% of the time upgrading controls algorightms and the other 50% doing maintenence. I still don't know what they mean by maintenence. The controls group is 4 guys who all seem to have been there for the past 20 years.
I'd like to be in a larger city but I should be fine in the boonies, it's pretty much where I've grown up. The cost of living is miniscule around Columbus. I could probably rent a 1,400 sq/ft house for $600/mo.
But the main thing is I would like to be in a design type job. Ideally on aircraft stability/navigation/gps etc.. the sexier side to controls if you will.
Nevertheless I do realize that getting to learn Allen Bradely hardware/Rockwell software would be very valuable. My role in that small workgroup would soon be indespensible. The money could be fantastic.
The company has been very professional and ultra fast in getting back to me. The whole process has taken 5 weeks including the delay caused by the 4th of July.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
If you can't then, all bets are off, regardless of whether this is your first job, mid-life crisis or semi-retirement fund.
If a company is serious about treating their employees fairly, then the money should be fair (for your area, job description, level of expertise). The money doesn't have to be the highest, but it does have to be competitive. Otherwise, they are chiselling you.
Possiblity of 10% raises mean nothing. Either you have it, or you don't. As of now, you don't. All you have is $48K. Oh by the way, I talked to my HR buddy. Benefits are typically around 22% of salary for engineers. Sales and marketing type, where there is commission or variable pay, the numbers are different (I didn't ask any further). So, for you, that should be around $10K in benefits, not $15K. Just a heads up.
After all of this, you need to decide what you want in life (ie. have a goal). What ever your goal is, if this job will lead you closer to that goal, and given that the money side is fair, then I would suggest you take it. If not, I suggest you look somewhere else.
Lots of people seem to think that the "first job" is special in some way. I say "bull cookies". A job is a job. The reason we work is to "put food on the table" as it were, and also to further ourselves for the next job up the ladder. I look at the first job as the foundation of a house. If you settle and take a lousy job, it will make it that much tougher for your career - much like a crooked foundation makes it that much tougher to build the rest of the house on.
Graduating now is a good thing - the job markets are very hot in many industry. From what I understand, GE (a large electrical company) is taking orders for their turbine generators for 2009 delivery (for some models). If you are not looking at a good job, with good pay and good prospects, I suggest you keep looking. If nothing else, you got time - your only just graduating.
Take your time, talk to your friends and folks. Good luck.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I see so many beginning engineers struggle because they don't have an idea what they are designing. They've never seen it before.
Once you get your hands dirty in the stuff though, you really develop a sense of what you are designing.
It would be a great experience and foundation, as AsherEng describes, for you to build on.
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RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I look forward to learning and contributing to these boards in the future.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I agree with Controlnovice that Support/Maintenance is a good place to start. There is a lot of fundamentals to learn in a Support/Maintenance role, and I say this from experience. If you want to get into the design of electro-mechanical controls (aircraft, automotive, robotics, etc), it would be best to start from a Support role, if you have no prior co-op experience in the field.
Will you be graduating with a BSEE, MSEE or PHd? I ask because the sexier job in controls (aircraft, etc...) are typically done by guys with advanced control eduction. Believe me, there is a lot of simulation that goes into the design of electromechanical controls. Starting with mathematical modelling, system identification, then synthesis, there is typically plenty of mathematical crunching that takes place. Additionally, electro-mechanical plants are usually controlled with Advanced Controllers (MPC, SMC, EFL...).
Industrial control, on the otherhand, is relatively straigh forward and predominantly implemented using PID controllers. These are relatively easier concepts to understand although the tuning sometimes can be a nightmare. PLCs do the bulk of field industrial controls, so getting to learn about these things would be a very good start.
I would say, go for it. Learn as much as you can, and doors will open in a couple of years time.
Good Luck.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
You can always go back and ask for more $$ AFTER you demonstrate some ability and eagerness to serve your employer.
Lots of money in some grist-mill of a position will quickly sour the most eager acolyte.
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Invest in the 401k and stock instead of Visa or Master Card.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Looks like I should be moving down South!
Good Luck on Friday.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I'm facing a dilemma now. The company with whom I have an offer wants to know something tomorrow (Wednesday). I have to figure out what approach to take in asking them for 1 more week to decide.
I have this interview with the Japanese company Friday and I will let them know at some point toward the end of the interview that I need to know something soon.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
- Tell them you have another offer and need more time to select between the two. However, they could say "good luck with that and don't call us again", or "Oh, well, we can work with your salary/benefits some if you like."
- Tell them you want to talk to your family about moving 'so far from home', 'away from the favorite family goldfish', or 'girlfriend/boyfriend you are planning on marrying', and you need more time
- Take the offer and still go on the second interview. You would burn a bridge that you can never cross again if you take the second possible job offer, but at least you have 'a bird in the hand'.... (I don't really recommend this, but it is an option).
Oh, and don't always believe the hype about being the 2nd in Japan and making inroads in the USA. It'll be a difficult road to make big progress in competing with the Emersons, Honeywells, Allen Bradleys, etc. in the States. If you enjoy a challenge, go right ahead.
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RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
"May I have until August 3rd to give a response?"
You don't need to give a reason. If they ask, just say you need some time to think about it (which is the truth).
If they won't give you another week, well, that says a lot about the company, and your potential new boss now doesn't it?
A company will not treat you any better than when they are recruiting you, has been my experience.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Now to focus on the interview on friday. They said I'd interview with some engineering teams and the project lead for a couple of hours. I have no idea what they might ask. The interview with the other company was more them letting me know what they did rather than them asking me what I knew. I guess I will continue to research DCS and process/batch control and try to relate my experience to those concepts.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
What did you do the last time someone disagreed with you on a technical position or area? How do you react if someone were given a promotion over your and you felt you were better qualified. If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
You're fresh out of school. They should know you don't have the experience in DCS and batch control experience, so the technical questions on these should be light.
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This is normally the space where people post something insightful.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
That makes sense. I've been going over those types of questions extensively and using the STAR method and all the stuff the career dept. usually throws at you. This seems like a pretty good resource:
ht
This list of questions in particular:
http://
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
That's what I'd like to ask you guys. Do you feel that process/batch application/hardware controls require a ChemE background. How do you think EE's with systems and controls backgrounds fit into process/batch ?
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
You could read a few books on the subject. That's what most good engineers do when they need some understanding in an adjacent field.
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
My point wasn't that I felt that I couldn't learn or fit into the work environment. It was that the engineers with ChemE backgrounds didn't realize that in addition to being an EE I've taken fluids and thermo classes (I would think this is more relevant to batch/process than chemistry). No doubt they have had far more experience with fluids, thermo and process design but I had to stress the point that if you're talking about DCS I understand network topologies, protocols, sensors, microprocessors, interfaces, computer applications, drivers, hardware/firmware etc... all practical aspects of the daily job.
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Going the Big Inch!![[worm] worm](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/worm.gif)
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
BigInch's quote is a good one.. Would work well.
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
The members here have given you excellent advice. I started out in the path of field engineering and was quickly disillusioned by the enormity of the extensive travel involved while I loved the work. I left that and went into a design position, the complete opposite in my view, but my field experiences were very helpful in guiding designers and drafts persons to think about the field implications of their designs.
Many years later the combination of backgrounds from those two early jobs along with subsequent jobs combined with second and third languages (learned since university) to help me recently land a new position at 3 times your age, a hard thing for us geezers to do.
So, as has been recommend, weigh the factors of job challenge/satisfaction, life's goals (hunting/fishing vs going to the opera/theater) social issues (wife or significant other would/would not like travel/foreign assignments, etc) and pick the one that you think suits you the best and dive in head first.
rmw
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
???????????
Cut and paste into:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Well here it is again.
Translation: "Being foolish, the young engineer."
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I am going to go with Yokogawa because they are a bigger company in the controls market and the position is a design position. CSC offers a smaller probably less stressful environment and very interesting performance/bonus possibilities though I didn't get that in writing. I liked the project manager at CSC he was a very nice guy and I would like to move to Columbus, would be a change from where I am currently (I'd live in the same place if I take the Yokogawa job).
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
I start on the 21st. I appreciate all the input guys, thanks a bunch.
dM
RE: First Job Offer In Controls Opinons wanted
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?