Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
(OP)
3 years ago when I was last in a postition needing to evaluate and decide on a 3d cad package, the choice was quite easy. 3 years ago solidworks had the tools needed, and inventor was playing catch up. Now 3 years later I'm once again tasked with deciding, but the race seems a lot closer.
My company makes pulleys. The assemblies are small. A typical assembly may only have 8 parts. (adding bearings may bring this up to 50) The variety of sizes of each of those parts is almost endless. Each part we manufacture has almost infinite sizes. Each purchased part like bearings, is one of a hundred or so variations.
I like to automate as much as possible. Every style will be pre done as an assembly with all drawings. When a new job comes in we change every part parameter in an assembly, and have the already done drawing update. Clean it up, and print. (with solidworks this would be done with a design table at assembly level controlling a skeleton sketch and all parts drawn in contect and constrained to the skeleton)
Inventor used to lack configurations. Now it has them.
Soliworks used to lack drawing functions. Now it has them.
Solidworks still lacks good equations and global variables.
Inventor still lacks in some tools it has.
I guess both are able to do the job for me. Inventor has caught up quickly. Will it pass solidworks in the next few years?
Any comparasin I've read in the last couple months while researching has always been versions of a few years ago. Back when the biggest points were configurations and design tables. Now that distinction appears gone.
To anyone who is familiar with both in their current state, do you have any insight that might sway me one way or another?
How is autodesk vault compared to pdmworks?
Jarery
My company makes pulleys. The assemblies are small. A typical assembly may only have 8 parts. (adding bearings may bring this up to 50) The variety of sizes of each of those parts is almost endless. Each part we manufacture has almost infinite sizes. Each purchased part like bearings, is one of a hundred or so variations.
I like to automate as much as possible. Every style will be pre done as an assembly with all drawings. When a new job comes in we change every part parameter in an assembly, and have the already done drawing update. Clean it up, and print. (with solidworks this would be done with a design table at assembly level controlling a skeleton sketch and all parts drawn in contect and constrained to the skeleton)
Inventor used to lack configurations. Now it has them.
Soliworks used to lack drawing functions. Now it has them.
Solidworks still lacks good equations and global variables.
Inventor still lacks in some tools it has.
I guess both are able to do the job for me. Inventor has caught up quickly. Will it pass solidworks in the next few years?
Any comparasin I've read in the last couple months while researching has always been versions of a few years ago. Back when the biggest points were configurations and design tables. Now that distinction appears gone.
To anyone who is familiar with both in their current state, do you have any insight that might sway me one way or another?
How is autodesk vault compared to pdmworks?
Jarery
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Randy





RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Also..you assume that Inventor is adding features faster than Solidworks is. That I don't know for sure but Solidworks hasn't been sitting still.
Also you mentioned you are doing pulleys.....swx 2007 has added some tools for doing belts/chain type features with pulleys. You can do this from a conceptual standpoint with sketch blocks and a new belt/chain relation...or in the assembly with a belt/chain command.
Videos of it here:
http://ww
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
SW seems to be more mature in most areas having more options and have better sketching, modeling, assemblies, and especially mates.
IV has better frame generator (by far) , better content center (vs SW lacking toolbox) and better weld symbol generator. Like some aspects of drawing mode of IV better. Drawing translation back to .dwg better in Inventor so far.
We work with welded parts and standard pipe and flanges in larger assemblies. I had training in IV, another person in SW. I find more training available in SW (about 18 courses compared to 3 for Inventor). Even though my training was in IV I can usually achieve what I want easier in SW.
Have not got to Vault vs. PDMWorks yet.
I agree IV seems to be adding more features at a quicker rate and catching up, at least over the last few years. IV much lower initial investment by about 1/2 as we can trade up from expiring ACAD Mechanical. Still many things in IV take extra steps to generate and the labor savings can quickly offset initial investment. Example SW can generate variable pitch coil with thin wall extrusion. IV requires generating 3 seperate coils as surface then thickening and mating together. We project to surface a lot, SW can find the surface, IV requires projecting the surface then hiding it. So far we can accomplish what we need in IV, but we do require the extra steps. We use SW thin wall often for revolves and extrudes to create our heads and shells with IV this requires an extra step.
IV does come out with some features before SW. For example IV was the first to allow limiting section cut depth to a specific distance which is a huge time saver for what we do. In the SW forums at sdotson.com you can see a few other features in SW 2007 that are "catching up" to IV. Generally though SW is more feature rich.
Right now I would say we are leaning toward SW in spite of price difference, but will have more input over the next few weeks as we are finally actively reviewing both products again. Your needs are completely different though so you may come to a different conclusion. Hopefully you have current versions of both products and are putting them through the paces.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Yes we are evaluating both versions. But my own opinion is biased since I have several years experiance with SW and only a few weeks with IV. I know that most frustration and wasted time disappears once one has a year of use with an app and knows the best practices, and the fast workarounds for its shortcomings.
My lack of experiance with inventor is my reason for posting. I wanted to get opinions from those with more experiance in IV. So far it looks like SW would be the best overall. More expensive up front, but a thousand or 2 is quickly made up in time and frustration.
I just wanted to give IV full consideratin, and those more familiar with both may be better at guestimating the apps a few years into the future.
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Randy
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Solid Edge V18 SP6 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Don't throw away Inventor - it has surpassed SW as the highest installed base internationally.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
It helps to claim that number of seats when they give a free copy of IV to every Mech Desktop and Autocad Mechanical user. Also I've heard from Swx vars that Autodesk is steeply discounting IV by half or more. A company with number one sales don't usually discount their product like that......unless they have some big need. My guess is they are losing alot of Autocad users to Swx and they doing everything they can to stop the hemmoraging.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I prefer PDMW over Vault, because I think it has more options and I'm used to it. We will be implementing Vault for the die-hard facilities ACAD users, mainly because most of them do not understand any kind of PC file management and we got a good deal. ADESK is not clear on the future of Vault. PDMWorks works well for solid modeling users, especially for rev control.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I personally have grown to appreciate truly advanced features that directly enhance my ability to preform my job duties, much faster and more effectively than my long-suffering co-workers.
For the record, Inventor's Design Accelerators provide a level of functionality unique in the CAD software domain, and Vault is a truly integrated PLM package, not a manually driven add-on.
Much of what has been written here clearly indicates a lack of direct exposure to Inventor, idle speculation and supposition, based on marketing hype and hearsay. I am at this moment sitting in front of a workstation with both Inventor 11 and SolidWorks 2006 installed. There is no confusion in my mind as to which is the superior product !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Just curious.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Autodesk only dominates the market from it's Acad user base....which is converting to 3d...and which Autodesk finally realized they needed a decent product and came with IV late in the game. Only their deep pockets and loyal Acad users saved them losing out.
And if there were more IV users out there...then why does a Monster job search under the engineering catagory turn up 761 swx jobs....and Inventor turns up 222? 3.5x the number of IV jobs.......
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Always going to be a few like him out there. I guess that is what makes each and everyone of us unique in our own sense. With all that said Inventor will eventually lose out in the end to all the other MCAD players.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
When someone with more than 21 years of CAD experience, and in excess of 32 years in engineering, with published credentials in the CAD software market, tries to convince me otherwise, I'll gladly listen. My current session of Inventor has been open and running for over a week, since I last rebooted the machine, and I've got work to do ...
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And I hang around "other" forums cause I like to see what other cad programs have to offer. They all have their strengths and weakness....some have more than the other though.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I am in this forum for the same reason as Jason, to expand my CAD horizons.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Oh by the way then why have you started two threads on the SW forum yourself? Sounds like to me you are scared to death your beloved ACAD is going down the tubes.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
If you do a little research, you will find that Autodesk launched Inventor as a completely independent project in the early 90's. We've had a few people here who didn't respect experience, they usually don't keep up with the veterans, but most DO listen, and benefit from it !
Oh by the way then why have you started two threads on the SW forum yourself? Sounds like to me you are scared to death your beloved ACAD is going down the tubes.
I am occasionally asked to make inquiries on the SW forum, on behalf of co-workers struggling with problems I don't have with Inventor. I have found the folks on the SW forum very helpful, but I have no other interest in SW currently, as we are replacing those seats with IV. And if you read my posts carefully, you will see no mention of using AutoCAD, I upgraded to AME in 1989, Mechanical Desktop and Inventor with the initial releases of each.
ctopher makes an excellent point, many AutoCAD users learn perhaps 10 % of the program's functionality, but still manage to get their work done. Cadkey, Microstation, VersaCAD, Anvil, and many others fell into obscurity, AutoCAD is still a best-seller in the 2D domain.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
MDT couldn't compete with Swx and SE so they wrote rubicon which became Inventor......a product that looks more like Solidworks than Autocad. Inventor's a capable product...but hardly superior to anything else out there. Time for Autodesk to get used to the competition....something they haven't really had to worry about with Acad.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Maybe true, but don't confuse "best-seller" with BEST.
People use ACAD because people use ACAD. A justification for ditching our original 2D CAD system was "I can stand outside Woolworths and shout "I need a ACAD draughtsman" and half a dozen will walk up to me".
(It wasn't true, but then we are talking about higher management!!)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The OP was about 3D.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
So very true!
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://mbinfo.mbdesign.net/CAD-History.htm
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Inventor forum:
2681 Members
61 helpful posts counted on the MVP page.
SW forum:
14797 Members
Well over 1000 helpful posts counted on MVP page.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Your link to the history of CAD is absolutely excellent, and brings back a lot of memories to another "experienced" CAD engineer; and although I use Pro/E and this is an Inventor forum, I really appreciate the link you provided - it is very interesting to see the rise and fall of different CAD companies over the last decades.
It's a shame that SolidWorks users and resellers try to use this forum to promote their product, and cause frustration for members like yourself for which this forum is supposed to be for.
We all think that our CAD system is better than the rest, and it will be very very intersting in 5 or 10 years time to see the updated "history of CAD" and see which of the current frontrunners no longer exist. Put yourself back 10 years, who would have guesssed that Computervision and SDRC would not survive. Who will still be there in 2016?
Best regards, and good luck to all current CAD vendors in the future.........
John
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Its an open forum, just one of many, and I assume that SW users browse here out of curiosity about Inventor. The REALLY lively forums are the subscription sites. I won't disrespect the webmasters here by promoting a competitor, but it IS a big Internet world out there ! But I AM mildly annoyed by the disinformation about Inventor, although I suspect the folks in San Rafael are not losing any sleep over it !
I realize this is rather unscientific, but here's some data from Eng-Tips, and you may come to your own interpretations:
Inventor forum:
2681 Members
61 helpful posts counted on the MVP page.
SW forum:
14797 Members
Well over 1000 helpful posts counted on MVP page
I would interpret this to mean that Inventor users do not require as much assistance, the Help files are very sophisticated and well indexed, and the tech support is first-class ! But I do not believe for a minute that there is any logical correlation between job postings and installation base numbers.
JohnAndrews, I was never that fond of Computervision, although they improved the product after merging with Prime. But I do miss SDRC, it was an excellent package, very stable and innovative. I see its influence in Inventor, and wonder if some of the IDEA-S developers migrated to Autodesk. BTW, we have a very successful division still using Pro/E, with a vast legacy of project files, wouldn't make any sense for them to switch.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Most Autodesk users learned the software because:
1. Free training by job/coworkers
2. Recieved a free illegal copy from friends/coworkers 15 years ago and never learned anything else.
3. Are not engineers or designers, but learned it because it was cool and the tool to learn...
4. Looked good on the resume.
5. Cheap training at a local HS or JC.
6. A lot of companies use it because it's ease of use.
There are not as many Adesk users at Eng-Tips as other CAD users because, most are not much PC literate.
Most SolidWorks users learned the software because:
1. They can all of the above and more.
3. SolidWorks can take Adesk files and translate between them, and to other high end CAD software.
4. Most SW users have more design experience backgrounds.
5. Most pick SW after carefully studying different CAD software because they know what they are looking for, and have the money to purchasing them.
6. Training is specialized and cost $$.
7. Most Adesk users wouldn't notice I skipped #2. (just kidding)
This is not a Adesk bashing by no means, just from my experience working with all types of CAD users.
rich942, Great link! I had it saved from a long time ago, but forgot about it. Thanks for sharing.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The term mid-range is a compilation of solid modelers able to run on a decent PC with a high level of new features at each release. As a 3D freak I always check out these new features to make life and work easy (say smart).
But after about 10 years of modeling at several companies I learned that it has nothing to do with the software but all about the required level of automation in your models.
The main ingredient for automation = ROBUSTNESS!
A robust Assy enables you to handle engineering changes properly without collapsing models at the first touch. This is usually achieved by the basic features (revolve, extrude, hole, fillet, etc) and not by the newly presented features.
Robustness needs a lot of anticipation BEFORE you start your work and a STRUCTURED way of enineering with modular built sub-assy's.
Greetz,
Martin
Unigraphics NX4,NX3,NX2,R17
Inventor 10,9,8,7
Solid Edge 10,9,8
Solid Works 2000,98
Mechanical Desktop 4,3
Autocad 2004DX,2000,R14, R12
Teamcenter 9
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And Rich, as for you saying that IV users don't need as much assistance because of IV's excellent help....go look at macadforums and see the complaints there...lots of them. There's even some posts from an IV user about how much better Solidworks help is compared IV...so I don't that has much to do with the lack of IV questions here.
And please explain why job postings is not a good indication of install base. Are you saying that for some reason, companies that use IV don't need people that know IV?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I also had a similar experiance with 2d software. I learned AutoCad and Cadkey at the same time and I would choose Cadkey over AutoCad in a heartbeat. So I am not just clinging to AutoDesk out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. Just my two bits.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
This is an unwarranted assumption, and I find it amusing, considering that so many of us that have used Autodesk products since the mid-80's now have 20 years or more of PC and Windows experience ! We fought hard for the acquisition of computer hardware and software, at a time when conventional wisdom said that engineering documents would ALWAYS be produced manually, pencil and paper. If you are under 40 years old, you owe the current CAD environment to those of us who risked our jobs and our reputations to advocate the transition to CAD.
4. Most SW users have more design experience backgrounds.
AutoCAD 1983, SW 1995. ?
And please explain why job postings is not a good indication of install base.
That one is easy ! For the same reason that the number of applications for a driver's license would not be any indication of the number of cars on the road.
A robust Assy enables you to handle engineering changes properly without collapsing models at the first touch. This is usually achieved by the basic features (revolve, extrude, hole, fillet, etc) and not by the newly presented features. Robustness needs a lot of anticipation BEFORE you start your work and a STRUCTURED way of enineering with modular built sub-assy's.
Words of wisdom ! Wish I had written that !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
This is a "straw man" argument, although I grant that the analogy you made was appropriate for the wording of Jason's question.
Number of open positions vs. install base by itself is similar to DL applications vs. cars on the road. You can make no prediction on the actual number of cars on the road based on the number of open DL applications at any given time.
However, Jason's argument was one of ratios. Comparing the ratio of, say, automobile license applications to motorcycle applications, one may reasonably assume some measure of correlation to the ratio of automobiles on the road to motorcycles on the road.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Also has nothing to do with which CAD came first.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Companies that use IV don't need new users as often as companies that use Solidworks cause:
1. IV users are happier and don't leave their jobs.
2. Those companies aren't growing their business such that it causes them to increase their staff.
3. Those companies are unable or unwilling to increase staff when needed.
Now number 1 I rather doubt....browsing the more active IV forums shows that IV has as many if not more bugs and issues than Swx. Most users won't leave a company anyway just because of dissatisfaction of the program they use.
As for number 2....wouldn't make sense that companies that chose IV aren't increasing business or are worse off in some way. I'm sure some Swx VARs would love to jump on that say it because they chose IV but we all know that's not the case.
Number 3 is the same thing....software choice is not likely to influence whether management decides to increase staff or not...though in the case of the high end cad programs I could see a budget situation cause they cost so much....at least for smaller companies using them.
Feel free to add more situations if you can think of any. I'm sure you could add something like "IV saves so much time that new users aren't needed" but I find it highly unlikely that IV has an advantage over Solidworks to such great extent that using it would save more time. Sure there are different areas where it may be better but the same could be said about Solidworks......it all evens out....and thus the number of job posting is a good indicator of the ratio of the companies using Solidworks versus Inventor.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
My point is that internet job postings are no indication whatsoever of the installation base of any given software package. There is no "ratio" between these two conditions. Many of the best jobs never appear in any listing, print or online, but are filled by personal referals. Many other listings do not specify any particular software requirements (such as those placed by my current employer, as we are in transition from SW to Inventor). The assumption is that any reasonably well-educated and experienced engineer or designer can effectively use whatever software is selected by the program managers. Ultimately, all we have to go by are the sales figures, as provided by independant and unbiased sources, to determine who is leading the market. For my part, I would not choose any working tool ONLY because it was the "most popular", I also have to be convinced that it serves my purposes, is stable and well-structured, and is the product of a reputable and successful organization.
From my experience, it's nothing to do with when ACAD came out or how it works with Windows, it's users that become lazy and stick with one program and don't move on. I never said it's ALL users, just most that I have seen.
The point is, that most current Inventor users did NOT "stick with one program", but chose to advance from 2D to 3D within the Autodesk product line. That's not "lazy", just good budget management, and still required the acceptance of a steep learning curve. Certainly Autodesk has enjoyed the advantage of a huge legacy installation base, and has rewarded their loyal accounts with discounts and free technical assistance. Its just good business for all concerned.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
As for chosing what's popular.....we certainly didn't. We chose Swx back in 98 when it was relatively unknown after evaluating Swx, Solidedge, Pro/E, and Mech Desktop. We ruled out IV cause it was in it's first released and not worth the risk at the time. Now most Autocad users on the other hand do go with IV cause it's an Autodesk product. Several Autocad users here started pushing it when we were getting ready to buy Swx even after we pointed out that it was in it's first release and likely not a mature enough product.
And where do those sales figures come from? Of course Autodesk themselves in their quarterly statements...problem is knowing what the numbers mean. All mechanical desktop and Autocad mechanical get IV for free....yet Autodesk counts that as a seat of IV whether they use it or not. Not to mention cases where Autodesk practically gives the software away. There was a comparison done by someone a while back that showed how IV outsold Swx....yet didn't make near the revenue from it that Solidworks did. IMO, Autodesk is in panic mode and doing what it can try and stop from losing more customers. I would do the same.....and this is really just what they needed cause prior to IV, they have been pretty stagnant since they had no real competition.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Why can people not except that each product can be the best for certain requirements and other products will be better and worse for other requirements. Even if one is better if the operator is not comfortable with it then it is not the best for them for the same reason as we all find our own beds the most comfortable?
I will set my Dad on anyone who disagrees with me and my Dad is bigger than your Dad.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
In parts of the discussion, the number of users/forums/licenses/bugs/ is indicated to say which package is best (or worst).
Now about the bug part. I am for 100% sure there will never ever be a bug free CAD software package. Not for Inventor and not for Solid Works.
Reason: Companies need to bring out new releases in order to keep making money!
If they would develop a package which would be perfect, then nobody would buy a new release of it anymore. At least not my boss.
I always enjoy a good discussion with software resellers and distributors. My trick is to ask them what is the approximate number of system crashes by their software bugs. Once a week, once a month, once a year? Don't accept that they answer the question that it depends on your skills. In the end they would generally say once a month.
In return I say to them: what if I bought a new car. Would I also accept that it fails once a month when I am driving in it on the highway?
1-0 for you, they generally agree and understand that you are not a schoolboy they can fool around with. It is also a great point of bargaining for those of you who are in the position of purchasing those products. Let them sweat a little more!!!
Unigraphics NX4,NX3,NX2,R17
Inventor 10,9,8,7
Solid Edge 10,9,8
Solid Works 2000,98
Mechanical Desktop 4,3
Autocad 2004DX,2000,R14, R12
Teamcenter 9
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I find that most problems come from not the CAD software, but from how the pc is setup/configured and user errors.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
There are far too many variables to make this assumption.
And where do those sales figures come from? Of course Autodesk themselves in their quarterly statements
And from Dassault's website as well. The sales numbers at least indicate the potential size of each user base.
http://usa
There was a comparison done by someone a while back that showed how IV outsold Swx....yet didn't make near the revenue from it that Solidworks did.
Software pricing is a tricky business ! When I was developing AutoCAD add-ons in the mid 90's, I certainly wasn't setting the price based on the value of a 3.5 inch floppy ! I wanted to get a fair return for my efforts, but still make it affordable. Inventor is the upgrade path for many existing Autodesk products, with an appropriate price structure. New seats of SW will always cost more than an Autodesk upgrade, hence the higher revenue for fewer seats sold.
In the final analysis, we chose to phase out SW here for a variety of user dissatisfaction issues, and also to avoid the embarrassment of an American defense contractor using a foreign-owned product. This may become mandatory in the future, for security reasons.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Over all, I have seen most CAD software working. I pick SolidWorks over all of them.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
"I just received an email from an Autodesk dealer and it mentions that essentially all 2004 versions of Autodesk design products including AutoCAD, AutoCAD Mechanical, Architectural Desktop, etc. are being “retired” on March 15, 2007."From Alibre CEO Blog/Tenlinks daily.
THREE YEARS OLD and obsolete!!! Whoa get out your pocketbook, again. (Did I mention Inventor has one of the highest percentage maintenance fees?)
And I say it yet again, I'm unbiased not paid for my opinion, work in a JobShop, and have been using 3D cad since before some of you were a gleam in your daddies eye, Inventor is near the bottom for usability unless you are doing the simple stuff. Oh and yes I'm presently using Inventor and have used AutoCAD since v.2. circa 84. Good Software..but not the best by far and not catching up, just trotting behind.
As far as stability when I arrived at this location they had all kinds of problems with Inventor crashing. I spec’ed a system for them and voila poof no problems. Use the correct hardware (for those not computer geeks think of a hotrod car with a 1000 HP and a stock transmission from a 4 cylinder.. vroom…. Crash ;=} ).
Man on a mission because I had to start with the dog and pony shows the software reps put on. Kinda like statistics, did you know 85% of all statistics were incorrect? Sorry I have a hard time being serious this long.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
dassault will never allow solidworks to compete with their flagship product catia, it will always be just mid-range. autodesk has nothing to worry about!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Agreed....Undo in IV is better.
Dassault doesn't hinder Solidworks development.....some of the newer surfacing tools even come from Catia code such as Fill surface. Also....Solidworks is now outselling Catia on a seat count basis...doesn't sound like they are holding them back.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
You are correct, autodesk (Autodesk) has nothing to worry about ... Mechanical vs Architectural based.
If I wanted to be an Arch or civil engineer, I would be using the Autodesk products at their full capabilities. Being mechanical, I'll stick with the mid-range SolidWorks for my military and aerospace projects.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
your information on iassemblies is out-of-date. here is an updated description:
• Create an iAssembly factory from which member assemblies can be created by
editing the associated assembly table.
• Specify Part Number indexing and member naming schemes.
• Use Autocapture mode to modify the iAssembly table by capturing changes made while modeling.
• Use Microsoft Excel® 1 to incorporate logical expressions in the configuration table.
• Place a selected member of an assembly configuration into another assembly.
• Specify an iAssembly member in consuming documents such as drawings, presentations, and derived assemblies.
• Add new members to the assembly configuration while using the Place Member dialog.
The Autodesk Inventor Bill of Materials supports iAssemblies displaying a single structure view that contains the aggregated item list. Each configuration is displayed as a separate column showing quantity (QTY) differences across members.
Using the BOM editor you can display one member at a time or the entire set of members at once.
The Vault supports assembly configurations allowing you to select and check out specific members of a configuration.
The Vault can locate the factory, or parent, file from a member and can also locate other files that make use of the member file using the where-used capability.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Check out this informative link.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Solid Edge V18 SP6 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://www.vizmo.com/etch.html
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Now the old dinosaurs are those who insist on using Autodesk products over the superior ones.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I guess Google is the largest most successful cad company since they own Sketchup? Or maybe it's Microsoft since they own Visio?
Don't confuse overall company revenue with an individual product they sell. Otherwise I'll have to say that Microsoft has the largest most successful image editing software since Paint is included with every copy of Windows.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
lighten up guys! have a good chuckle,check out sw's newest effort!
http://www.cosmicblobs.com/
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
It's to help with the transition from ACAD to SW.
just kidding.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I’m surprised eng-tips even has an IV forum. You can’t make a better board than Adsk.com. Of course any negative IV talk quickly gets stifled. A few weeks ago there was a huge hate thread over IV’s content center and adsk pulled it. Then they said they tried to retract some misinformation and accidentally deleted the thread. Ya right.
Watching the IV board for many years I’d say most there are drafters and students. The room lights up for rendering questions. There are lots of questions about sheetmetal from people who know nothing about bend allowance. You see a lot of questions that go on for a while then you find out the guy is modeling a car or nuclear reactor or skateboard. (playing with IV) I’ve seen a lot of die and mold people come and go. Tooling is tough. Tooling guys are the ones that really use the hell out of cad. IV has great constraints and automation design is possible but again, SW has greater tools for machinery. Product Engineers I’ve worked with spend a lot more time researching than drawing. I could see them warming up to IV’s ease of use and sophisticated UI.
I do feel most of the seats sold aren’t being used. As indispensable 3d may be for some, it really is a huge jump and I'm sure test projects have been a big waste of time for many. When you look at adsk “customer successes” you see a lot of east Europe companies. Some don’t even have a web site. I know Adsk offered my main customer (big, well known name) complete installations, free of charge, if they would just use IV for a project.
The people using IV most are probably small manufacturers making valves or drawer knobs and such. And their whole catalog is in acad and they probably bought IV because it was cheap upgrade and thought it would convert acad the best. Funny, but SW is much superior for converting acad… But they don’t need all the high powered tools and without a doubt, IV is much easier to learn and use. There are a lot of furniture and cabinet guys at adsk.com. They are always asking for a woodworking version of IV. Hehe. And you know… the world might not have been big enough for multiple makers of 2D, but it might be for 3D. I don’t think IV gives a crap about me (tooling). It took 9 releases before they programmed built in screw holes. While mfg has become hand to mouth, construction projects are like printing money. And, although adsk says IV is for mech, I think… mech is just a vertical market to fund the programs overall development. IV doesn’t have any packaged tool steel materials… but it’s got 10 different carpet textures. Hehe.
Personally, I’m super happy with what SW does. I’m not as happy with how it does it… When you do a job, any job, there are hard parts and easy parts. Sometimes you do the easy stuff first to make progress while thinking about the hard stuff. Sometimes you better do the hard stuff first or you’ll have to redo the easy stuff …I’d say SW did the hard stuff first.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I can get Inv to do what I need, most of the time. However, I long for the days when I could use SW. SW is a better product across the board.
andy
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The 10 versions of carpet..; Good point maybe I've been looking at Inventor the wrong way, I've been trying to do complex mechanical work. I have to say I have designed one house and one commeriacl bldg. with Inventor and it does those well!!
I vote for Inventor as the best architectural 3D software, now keep AutoDESK out of my Job Shop.
Thats all I got to say about that.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Diemaker1 I am surprised you went for SW if your main work is tooling, there is at least one product out there that is vastly superior and no it is not inventor.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I would like to see some architectural thrown in with SolidWorks. I was told by them, not any time soon.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Monster.com
February 2002
Solidworks 179 positions
SolidEdge 5
Pro-E 266
Catia 233
Unigraphics 125
Mechanical Desktop 81
AutoCAD 1655
Inventor 8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 2004
Solidworks 585 positions
Inventor 99 (14.5%) (between IV & SWX only)
Pro-E 436
Mechanical Desktop 134
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
April 2005
Solidworks 550 positions
Inventor 138 (20%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
March 2006
Solidworks 769 positions
Inventor 252 (25%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
August 2006
Solidworks 767 positions
Solid works 222
Inventor 243 (20%)
Pro-E 577
ProE 207
Mechanical Desktop 50
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Interesting historical data, yes. Related to seat counts, of course not !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Actually, it doesn't ! It simply reports the number of current job openings at any given time, not the overall installation base, these are two entirely separate issues. Monster does not track the software industry, there are other organizations that do. If you choose to discredit the official report of any particular software developer, due to personal distrust, then research the facts and figures elsewhere, as I have done. No one would ever evaluate the size or viability of any industry, solely on the number of job postings.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Do you care to list an organization that lists number of seats that is not from the cad companies themselves. All cad companies that give you numbers give you a total commercial install base that is total seats shipped since day one. If a customer doesn't use it, its still counted. Pro/E has a hugh total listed....but many have left Pro/E for IV or Swx, or SE...yet PTC will still count it.
So where are your facts and figures that you have researched?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Total seats shipped doesn't mean much......Alibre might claim that they have a couple hundred thousand seats out there but how many are actually being used. Autodesk practically gives Inventor away or deeply discounts it. I've heard from other Solidworks users where Autodesk came in and offered to replace all Solidworks with Inventor for free....just pick up maintenance. That's probably why Autodesk's Inventor revenues are less than Solidworks even though they suppossedly sell more seats. Also notice that the last two quarterly statements have ommitted the number of commercial Inventor seats that they usually mention, so are they still selling more than everyone else?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
So, those seats are out there, not counted, and revenues not accounted for.
I agree with Jason.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://wohlersassociates.com/press38.htm
There are many others on the subscription-only sites of organizations that track the industry, Daratech and Dataquest for example, as I posted much earlier in this thread. But a quick Google search will yield numerous free sources of this same information. The numbers speak clearly, Inventor outsells its direct competitors.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Good info, but was for 2004.
I know of a few companies that in the past 12 months have switched from Inventor to SolidWorks. It is slowly moving that direction at our company now.
Curious, who is Autodesk Inventor's direct competitors? We usually only hear about SolidWorks or SolidEdge. CATIA is not a competitor, probably less seats sold than Inv, but a different league of its own. (same for UGS)
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
If you saw the entire report (we have a copy here), you would appreciate the care in validating active seat count data, its done with real surveys, taken independently, not marketing hype.
As I posted previously, our decision here to discontinue the use of SW, and replace those seats with Inventor, was based on two things, SW's offshore origins (security concerns), and instability with large assemblies. When our SW VAR couldn't resolve the rejection of Toolbox parts by PDMWorks, a directive was issued company-wide to switch our approx 150 engineering seats to IV. The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
"SW's offshore origins (security concerns)"??
Interesting. I have not experienced it myself. I have been doing military/space designs for major USA & Europe military projects, through ITAR, and never had an issue with SW and security. It has been in the contracts that we use SolidWorks from Dassault. In some cases, they prefer it.
I know it takes time for the data to come through. But, IMO I can't see how the data can be accurate. I have seen CAD software purchased from a VAR, but the info is not translated back to the manufacturer. I have checked it with SW and Autodesk.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http:/
Security issue again....I think I pointed out that Autodesk had more jobs for chinese programmers than Solidworks did....wait.... Solidworks doesn't list any jobs in Asia. They have some development in the UK and in other parts of Europe and they use GSSL in India for some of the add-ins....the rest is here in the states. Autodesk on the other hand:
http:/
http:/
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
There is no relationship, we recently posted a job listing solidworks as an attempt to determine if we would have to train employees ourselves.
If noone applies with solidworks experience then that means we will have to train which means extra expense. We may not buy solidworks based on that.
Hence, 1 job listing = 0 installed seats.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
You should see demo's of each CAD software and pick what is best for your company.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I shouldn't say that jobs indicates seats out there. You can't tell that. Just that there are more Swx jobs than IV jobs and thus you can conclude that there is more Solidworks being used than IV by that saem ratio. Maybe Autodesk is shipping more IV out there than Swx...but it doesn't appear that its being used more. Wonder how many active MDT users are out there?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/
Scroll down and look under the heading “How Will Buzz Reverse the Dip?”
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The Autodesk jobs posted for China are for mostly marketing and tech support positions, not core function programmers. To the best of my knowledge, Autodesk has never suffered a major breach of security.
On the other hand, the uncompiled source code for SW was stolen and offered for sale by an employee of Geometric Software Solutions, as reported by Businessweek Magazine in 2004.
When I developed add-ons for AutoCAD, I had no need for uncompiled source code to do my work. The presence of SW source code in India clearly indicates outsourcing, a distasteful practice, and one that often delivers sub-standard results. Bills have been introduced into Congress, and will be again, to ban the use of foreign-owned and developed software by US defense contractors. We are simply anticipating that here ...
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
h
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Back to Inv 11 vs SW 07 ...
I'll still take SW 07 over Inv anytime, whatever the argument.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
59135-Prog./SW Eng. 3 Posted 03-Aug-2006
Location: Shanghai, CN - Pidemco Tower
Design, prototype, write, test, and debug source code of AutoCAD features. Require skills:
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
If you still have any doubt about the presence of SW application source code in India:
http:/
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And I never said I had doubts that someone in India got a hold of the source code for SolidWorks. People steal things all the time that don't belong to them.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I believe Autodesk also uses someone within India, to some degree. But, I don't care who does. Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.
Anybody here try to design a part using either? IMO, SW is more powerful and more user friendly.
Here at my job I support SW and AutoCAD, but not Inventor.
Here, Inventor is considered an etch-a-sketch compared to SolidWorks, UG or CATIA.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I HAVE had first-hand experience with drafting work farmed out to a company in Bombay. Virtually all of it had to be reworked in the US, at great expense. It was an embarrassment to the managers who championed this "cost-cutting" measure.
I have never seen a single reference that would indicate that Autodesk has ever outsourced, they have no need to. They are a billion dollar company with deep domestic resources. I have followed their progress since 1985. If they engaged in this questionable practice, I'm certain that competitors would make it known.
And I have witnessed the initial impression that Inventor is a simplistic application, even here, with new users. Remember, Inventor installs in "novice mode", to ease the transition for 2D users. Accessing the advanced features is as simple as activating the toolbars. There you will find features that you will perhaps see in other 3D CAD programs in the future. I enjoy using them today !
Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.
Interesting observation ! I do wish that Autodesk had simply purchased SW, when it was up for sale in 1996. Then all of this confusion would never have been necessary. But at the time, by all accounts, they had no interest in a Parasolid-based modeler, when they already had an ACIS-based product in the works.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And you are quiet arrogant to think us Americans are the only ones capable of creating a quality product.
I'm sure IV has some features that other don't but the door swings both ways and depends o what you get used to. As I've heard...there are still no multi bodies, no configurations, and its missing many of the surfacing features that Solidworks has....not to mention many of the surfacing and curve capabilities that UG and Catia have.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I personaly have learned both SW and IV side by side, completing identical projects on both platforms. I found that inventor was easier to use and got me my desired result quicker. On the otherhand Solidworks was a more robust program and it had features that were able to accomplish specific tasks better than inventor (ie; surfaces and configurations). I chose IV as my software of choice because it suits my logic style better and is better for me. I still love SW as well and would gladly use it if the company I work for used it, but my preference is inventor.
Now, if we are done hijacking this thread for yet another SW vs IV, who is outsourcing to who and why this makes one or the other the antichrist, debate, I for one am through caring. If we are going to get back to the OP's original question of which is better for a company that designs pullies, let us please do so.
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
SolidWorks 2007 has some very cool stuff. I think it beats the pants off all others.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
If as I do you have complex 3D parts don't even consider Inventor.
Anyone wish to dispute this? If so you have not used Pro/E or SolidWorks to more than 25% of their abilities.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
That being said, I would invite anyone who has yet to use Inventor to make their own comparison, and see if it is suitable to their personal design style, and to the nature of the work that they do. Associating Inventor with AutoCAD can sometimes lead to an inaccurate evaluation, they are two entirely separate products, serving different markets.
And Chris, you beat me to the 100th post, fair and square !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
By saying "don't even consider inventor for complex parts" I think you are over simplifying things but I concur with the intent. You can create an sufficiently complex part in inventor to satisfy most any machinable components requirements. Where inventor fails IMO, is in the surface modeling needed for industrial design and for applications such as automotive and areospace where lofted surfaces are more nessesary. Working in an environment where we outsource our ID work, or it is simple enough that inventor can handle it without resorting to complex surfaces, Inventor does the job that SW could do for less money and a shorter learning curve.
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://usa
i've learned a lot from this thread;
inventor is #1, SW is #4, according to that Wohlers report
SW outsources to India
autodesk has a programmer in china (maybe)
people can be very defensive about their favorites, all evidence to the contrary !
this has been a great discussion, thank you all !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
ht
While this is an unfortunate trend, it in no way implies that any Autodesk product is being programmed offshore, simply that they are following a contemporary business practice of sending low-level tasks overseas. This was an open disclosure, not a discrete relationship exposed by a theft of source code.
I amend my previous statement that I had seen no reference to Autodesk outsourcing ANY jobs, clearly they are now doing so. I would hope that their experience with the sub-standard results typical in these situations will discourage any further attempts in this direction !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Who cares which program is the most popular, can't you tell us why one is better without resorting to dredging up the statistics about seat counts?
Can we please relegate these arguments to a thread that is dedicated to this? I for one, come to this forum to get answers to problems and to perhaps to provide answers to the questions of you folks. It bothers me when these legitimate questions about the performance of a piece of software degenerate into a slugfest over something that should have no bearing on the original post.
Did anyone else notice that the OP has not had anything to say since 12 jul 06?
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Even though Autodesk may outsource some work...I'm sure the source code is safe for the most part. Solidworks recently implemented some sort of program that prevents people from copying files without appropriate security (to prevent future theft). No doubt the code theft was by someone who got a hold of code he wasn't suppossed to have.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
While I don't agree with everyone, there have been many good points made on all sides and none have got in a flame war. I do think this has in general been a good thread for someone who is looking to buy CAD software. Even if the "OP" isn't talking.
Also you are right, ouch , I did not state it correctly when I said "don't even consider" So trying to be fair I will restate that if you are looking for software to do complex parts or assemblies there are several CAD packages that because of the extra tools do a much better job and do the job faster. I'm using Inventor now and though it is slower on complex parts none are faster on simpler parts. In this shop it can do all the design we have yet done. In shops where I have previously worked (2nd / 3rd tier Automotive) it would not be feasible to use Inventor.
Thanks
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
This is my last rant in this thread...I promise...
No really, I really mean it this time...
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I would encourage anyone involved in this decision-making process to gather as much information as possible, from reliable sources, in addition to testing the software with real, in-house requirements. If possible, engage the services of an experienced user, to demonstrate the features that YOU find important. Don't rely on a VAR for this, their job is to sell you THEIR software, and your needs may differ.
There have been a number of disturbing misstatements about Inventor in this thread, regarding the alleged absence of features that any real user of the program KNOWS are there, and have been for some time. This is unfair to anyone trying to make an informed choice. Its one thing to express a preference for a particular feature in a favorite application, but claiming that it is exclusive to that program, without confirmation, can be misleading. These myths tend to take on a life of their own !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
This is the kind of misinformation that I referred to in my post above, as it implies that creating organic shapes is somehow difficult or impossible with Inventor, or that the results are somehow inferior. Many IV users, including myself, would disagree. As with any CAD software feature, it is necessary to learn the specific protocols.
And as xgrigorix pointed out, the free DWF viewer is intended for opening DWF files only. There would be no reason to assume that it duplicates the function of DWG TrueView, which includes the DWF viewer.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
This guy says it all IMO.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
e drawings viewer:
eDrawings Viewer (one download, free)allows convenient viewing of native AutoCAD ® files (DWG and DXF™) and native SolidWorks® parts, assemblies, and drawings. The eDrawings Viewer is intended primarily for people who do not use CAD software and thus do not need to publish eDrawings files themselves. {Partially from eDrawings site}
AutoDESK;
Download the .dwf viewer AND trueview(2 downloads total, free), but they STILL will not read native Inventor files. (no it will not publish either).
"Can you parametrically constrain the surfaces in Inventor? To what degree? I ask because it is an important feature of the high end packages out there to have such control."
The short and truest answer is no. Remember I'm using Inventor and like it for "simpler tasks" but it takes longer to use the protocols (work arounds) that I have to use to do the slightly Parametric features. It links to tables fairly well (again with certain protocols <per AutoDESK>) and I commonly use this feature to replace true associative parts.
I may be wrong but I don't believe you can do associations between 3D surfaces in assemblies? If wrong pls. explain to ewh and me. I do know you can't do complex 3D surfaces in V10 though V11 has a little more control.
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Prior to SolidWorks, we used AutoCAD® Inventor®, which required so many upgrades that the cost of constantly re-training our engineering staff was unrealistic.
This is one man's opinion, and a misleading one. I have not witnessed the need for "retraining" with each new release of Inventor, the user interface has remained consistent throughout. There has been no major disruption to users, as the article implies.
This is a link to the Wikipedia article on Inventor, which identifies it as "the #1 selling 3D parametric solid modelling package", and provides a full history of release dates. I would consider Wikipedia a reasonably independent source of information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk_Inventor
For the sake of comparison, here is a link to the Wikipedia article on SolidWorks, which calls attention to the "limited" parametric approach utilized by SW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidworks
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
both work equally well
a good engineer is pretty useful too the software doesnt do the job
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Any relation to how Inventor seats are counted? (just kidding)
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
"Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."
Wikipedia just regurgitates facts submitted by users.
To quote
http://ch
"Anyone can make changes to entries; therefore, credibility is not maintained. I tell my students that Wikipedia is best used as a place to jump-start their research for information or ideas, and that they are to find credible sources to substantiate their ideas; Wikipedia is not dependable as a sole voice of authority. While I allow the website to appear on my students’ reference page, the source does not count as one of the required sources."
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And what do you mean "limited"...I don't it showing much except a couple of pictures illustrating the concept of sketches and extrude features with parametric dimensions.....does Inventor do this differently?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
No argument, just a populist forum that confirms already established facts. If anyone disagrees with the content, they are free to edit the page. These are both well-written and detailed articles, with a long history of contributors.
If you read this thread carefully, you will see that in nearly every case, disagreement has been expressed by attempting to discredit the source.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
isn't that what "independent and unbiased" means ?
one point that has been missed here. a SW user trying to use IV with SW experience only will be frustrated and get poor results. and miss some of the best features of IV!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
"... a IV user trying to use SW with IV experience only will be frustrated and get poor results. and miss some of the basic features of SW!"
It comes down to how competent the user is, how good the hardware is, schooling/training, and experience.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
To suggest numbers sold is a true indication is also laughable, I would guess Mc Donalds sell more burgers in the world than anyone else, how many people think they are the best burgers in the world?
Still this post is becoming increasingly funny as the allegations get wilder are more far fetched and less well informed.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The CAD companies, especially the larger ones have a huge stake in your selection of software. Over the years you are agreeing to pay tens of thousands for a single seat.(a). As all CAD Professionals know VAR’s will show you a really nice Dog & pony show to hook you. Once they have you hooked it is hard to change.
If you really want a true yardstick to measure by first decide which software packages have the minimum features you require. If you have a major customer with a particular CAD package that may be a major influence on your choices (importation is always a compromise). Make sure the CAD packages you select are mature and stable unless you are not worried your archive of files (anyone not worried?). Now pare down to 2 or 3 packages. Contact the VARs that you think come closest to having the support and CAD software(s) you need. Then request a demo of their software at your plant site. Let them know you will want to model a product you are using so you can evaluate the effectiveness of their software. Most important tell them you will give them the specs. when they arrive on site. The last statement is especially important because they don’t have hours/days to create the show. If you need to have special features (IE; family tables, association between features/parts, motion, surfaces, reverse engineering, importation of files, use with CAM,….) be sure to let them know you will want a demo of that also. This is so the rep.(s) they send will have knowledge of those features. Have the rep show you the strengths of his product, he will show you things you may not have considered. Last be careful about add-ons, be sure what you see is what you are paying for.
Some might say that a lot depends on the quality of the rep. and I agree wholeheartedly. If they send you a low quality rep., steer away from that VAR, they will not give you the support you need. On new software I would go with a slightly lesser CAD and have a good VAR any day.
VAR = value added reseller, this is probably your pool of knowledge and the people you will call in a sweat when you have an urgent question.
(a) This is a good article for those smaller shops/individuals “Low”? end CAD Also it has a very good statement about Inventor seat numbers. http://c
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://usa
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
But, I feel it is mostly about opinions than facts.
I also feel some of the articles from the links are based on opinions.
So, my opinion ... I've seen/used both, I will continue to use SW over Autodesk. (except for Arch/Civil 2D dwgs).
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
For the sake of accuracy, I checked and found that none of my posts in this thread exceeded 20 lines, excluding quotes and links, hardly "rambling". And if you believe that my point was to promote Inventor as the best choice for all, then you haven't really read my posts very carefully.
My concern is more for the barrage of misinformation and opinionated speculation about Autodesk and Inventor, and the promotion of Solidworks as a vastly superior product, when the market analysis says otherwise. If I have encouraged even one reader of this thread to make a fair, side-by-side comparison of IV and SW, then it has been worth the time taken to respond.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
But, I feel it is mostly about opinions than facts.
I also feel some of the articles from the links are based on opinions.
So, my opinion ... I've seen/used both, I will continue to use SW over Autodesk. (except for Arch/Civil 2D dwgs)."
Ctopher probably the best, nearest "the" truth post yet. Star fer ya.
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I just saw the SolidWorks 2007 rollout today. There are some new features that are very nice, especially with surfaces, animation, sheetmetal & photo realistic images.
Inventor has a lot of catching up to do.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Having used inventor since version 8 I was over the moon when they rolled iassemblies out problem is it doesnt quite work and I was hoping it would compete with configurations in solidworks
This was the only reason I held a hope out for inventor 11 but boy am I drained by the last two days of producing or trying to produce drawings with it which in a lot of companies is still what gets things made L.O.L
The inventor tech support guy came round and had a full blown argument with me that i was using the software wrong
and needed training
After showing him what i wanted to do he suggested a workaround for a problem that autodesk is advertising their product as capable of doing and that i had pointed out doesnt work as it should
PROE COULD DO easily
SOLIDWORKS COULD DO easily
CATIA COULD DO
UGS COULD DO
for crying out having used the above systems and proved it seemed quite plainly that i knew what i was doing and the Inventor software couldnt do what even the tech support guy was asking it to and work as advertised
i want to use model dimension in my drawings yes even from iparts autodesks solution copy the part drawing and alter it
you cant use model dimensions from an ipart factory part its a dumb solid
ive got to admit Autodesk does produce good drawings but the
problem for me was getting the models to a stage where i can do adrawing
after two days of pulling out hair being told im doing it wrong bytech support then proving the guy wrong till he cameup with a fix yes im BASHING INVENTOR
IM NO LONGER AN INVENTOR FAN the product drove me over the edge
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I may offer my opinion a) Switch to latest - greatest - newest version ONLY when forced to. Wait for the patches. b) Don't use Inventors Content Center as they have it set up, instead create your part and "save-as" in your working directory.I do this even for bolted connections, because Inventor typically has problems with these type of parts (iparts, content parts...) Of course these may not be viaible options.
I am not a big fan of Inventor but since the company let me spec. my system I have had almost NO error messages, look at your hardware.
Best of all tell mgmt. that you need to get SW or Pro/E if you are doing complex parts/assy's. Both do a better job importing AutoCAD dwgs than Inventor anyway.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I can pick it apart, but won't.
It does have some nice features, but seeing it and SolidWorks, I prefer SW. I wouldn't mind having Inv at home.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
11 reasons IV is the best choice for Autocad:
1. Functional design:
The only thing listed here that Solidworks doesn't have is the Component Generator and some of the Engineering calculation tools. Tubing/Piping, Cable/Harness, Frame Generator, and FEA/Motion Solidworks has.
2. Drawing Creation:
Gee...they make it sound as if IV is the only program that Acad user can use. And its statement "Inventor has long been the best choice for our AutoCAD customers by leveraging a familiar look and feel with Layers" is laughable when they just recently added layers not too long ago. Solidworks has had them for years. The rest is pure marketing as Solidworks can create sectioned detailed Isometric views. And Solidworks can move or copy dimensions between views...always have. And IV is just adding Inspection dimensions and chamfer dimensions, another Solidworks option.
3. DWG Interoperability:
DWG import Wizard.....Solidworks has it....and it has the same options to pick layers, zoom, pan, etc. It incorrectly states that you have to use DwgEditor to import DWG files. The export face/sketch statement is true as you do have to create a drawing in Solidworks to export.
4. Feature Generator and 3d grips
The feature generator sounds like a bunch of pre-defined library features in Solidworks. You can even setup the "Length, Width, etc." The 3d grips sound cool....Solidworks has an often hidden tool called "Move/Size feature" which sounds similar....its an older tool and may be more limited though.
5. Supplier Content Center Can we say 3d Content Central? Its a good idea...thanks Solidworks!!!!
6. Familar tools for Autocad users Layers and Styles.....Solidworks has them, though they don't sound as extensive as the Inventor versions. I'd give this to IV if these features are important to you.
7. Photo-realistic Rendernig and Animation
Come on, I thought this was "reasons IV is better for Acad users"? Every cad program out there worth its salt has these features. Someone with experience in both Swx and IV want to chime in how Autodesk does this so much better for Acad users?
8. Bill of materials management
Ahh...what? Again...acting like no one but Autodesk brings you this ability. Everything listed here works the same in Solidworks and most other 3d cad programs.
9. Vault for cad management
I don't know enough about vault to comment. PDM/Works handles Autocad and Office documents which Autodesk lists as a Vault advantage.
10. Collaborate with dwf
Biggest advantage I see to dwf is the ability to include a group of file in one dwf file. One could easily counter that the person on the other end doesn't even need to install eDrawings to view it. And only the person publishing the file needs eDrawing Pro for the expanded capabilities of markup, moving, sectioning. And as for having it all in one file......zip works pretty good.
11. Autodesk Manufacturing community
Well...can't argue with the fact that Autodesk has the largest online community of Acad users.....duh!!! Solidworks has many of the same online resources and I think you'll find that its users are just as active with helping people....and many are Autocad users as well.
------
Anyway...pretty weak list....I can think of other things that Inventor does better that should have been listed as most of these weren't unique to Inventor.....and several aren't tools that Autocad users would know anything about anyway. Fact is, no matter which 3d cad program an Autocad user moves, he/she will have to forgot what they know about Autocad.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
About Vault, it works very similar to PDMWorks.
Funny, the first paragraph of Inv says it is the best 3D software for ACAD users. Of course it is! Only hard core ACAD users would promote themselves to Inv. Users from other 3D CAD would not switch to Inv unless they had to, like a job change.
Inventor is a pretty good tool, but not my first choice.
Everyday I switch between ACAD and SolidWorks, ACAD makes my days seem longer.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Reason # 2 Drawing Creation….
“At the end of the day almost all our users need to create some kind of drawing”. They fail to mention all their users can’t dimension an isometric view.
Eddy
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
These features are at a level of sophistication far beyond the competition, and sketch-free modeling has been very popular here among engineers and new users. And we have found Vault to be a truly scalable PLM solution, even our non-CAD team members are using it to share and archive documents. Inventor is changing the way that we think about design, now the tool serves us, instead of the opposite.
As we transition to IV, even the former Pro/E users are coming around. The previous SW users are just delighted to keep a session open all day without crashing, and learning new techniques every day with all of that extra time !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And this document offers nothing to people who haven't experienced Inventor....there's no substance at all. I think you're a user but you sound like you're in sales and marketing....sure you don't work for a var or Autodesk?
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
My concern is for the potential new users, poised to recommend a software selection to their employers. They deserve to make their choice free of the influence of misinformation and distortion of facts.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jasons account of IV’s 11 highlights is pretty accurate IMHO. I’ll do some addendums. Not meant to take away from what Jason took the time to say, but add to them.
1. functional design is just a marketing term they are using to instill an impression of superiority. There’s no magic functional design wand. The only thing they have SW doesn’t is an add-on they bought from mechsoft. Fill in a bunch of numbers and it will draw a shaft or gear or something else. Not sure how many use it. I bet most people use vendor models downloaded using PartStream. Hehe.
2. IV drawing environment was a pleasure to use. I liked making prints in IV more than making models. With SW it’s the opposite, models are a pleasure and drawing a pain. I had plenty of models that wouldn’t section in IV. IV dwg export is better than SW. SW07 made big improvements though.
3. The only difference in IV and SW I see is IV could “Select” entities in the preview window. SW is much better for importing acad “geometry”. SW will apply a Fuzz to endpoints and auto add constraints. 07’s “fully define sketch” is outstanding. SW is not good for importing a whole print with text and blocks and Acads special entity types like tables. Does anyone import that stuff?
4. Grips are pretty cool for concept messing around stuff. They are bad to use on models because they delete equations which IVer’s use a lot. SW has some OK tools for making real models “stretchy”. “override dims on drag” allows sketch to be drug and dims update. Equations actually update to the drag size. And the new spinwheel is real cool for dimensionally stretching a sketch. I thought feature generator was kind of a toy. You can do the same thing with library parts.
5. IV’s CC is pitiful right now. I swear, some of the model I’ve seen makes me believe Adsk paid some Indian business to create cheap bare bones representations. Time will tell if Vendors will support it.
6. One thing that gets me about Acad… it been quite dormant. There are so many obvious tools that took them decades to implement. With in a day of drawing I could tink of a hundered things acad could add. Like, why doesn’t Acad have a dimension tool that knows what kind of dim to add based on picks? But instead they so often re-write existing functions that end up being 2 steps forward and 1 back. Now that I’ve seen SW, I think, wow, that’s ingenious. Makes me think of all the people I’ve run into that said Cadkey was superior to acad. And maybe they were right. And if Adsk didn’t give away acad, crushing Cadkey, I’d have a better 2d cad.
7. IV rendering is… like Technicolor. It is vibrant and gleams with luster. I would not call it photo-realistic, you could call it Phony-realistic, hehe. You know,realer than real. But it is very pleasing to look at. It really makes you say wow. Do people REALLY need rendering? It’s fun, but I can’t imagine contracts are actually won because of rendering differences. Maybe, society is so shallow these days.
8. I did a few boms with r10. it was painful. I think they had the concept right though. I haven’t use SW bom yet. After using IV, I’m scared too.
9. From what I’ve read, you need PHD in computer science to use vault.
10. If SW didn’t have edrawing, IV wouldn’t have dwf. Well, they would, but it would still be what it was originally created for… view acad files on the web. IV tries to add that same phony-relistic quality to DWF’s. if viewed just right it’s beautiful. But many other view angles are darkly shaded. I sent a dwf to customer once. He said it was like looking at the dark side of the moon. He could only see half of it. Edrawing may look cartoonish, but you can see everything. You know, medical text books are filled with hand drawn “cartoons” that convey information much better than a picture. I always send my Edrawings to the end customer as .exe files. Adsk states you have to have edrawing pro to do something, but what they don’t say is that SW Pro (which you get edraw pro) is pretty much the standard version, costing LESS than IVS and doesn’t mention that you have to pay extra for measuring and markups with dwf, which comes std in edrawings.
11. I wish SW would redesign it’s board so it would draw more activity. It’s the only SW forum with instant upload which is sooo good for getting problems solved. Adsk.com is very active, many IV programmers stop in there too. Questions are immediately answered. Unless you’re a diemaker. Even Adsk knows diemakers shouldn’t use IV.
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread again, but when I saw that brochure FILLED with SW sucks, IV is great… it pissed me off. What children Adsk have become promoting themselves with smear tactics.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Very good, a star!
By the way, I have used SolidWorks PhotoWorks to win a major USAF contract through L-M. A great tool!
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://www.synthx.com/articles/articles.html
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I searched this PDF again carefully, and found no such language. just because you don't agree is no reason to accuse autodesk of "smear tactics". are they not entitled to publish comparisons, as other do ?
I have noticed that most of the criticisms of IV here start with, "I bet", I feel", or "I heard", hardly the same as published reports from industry sources. c'mon guys, keep it professional, a bit less anger and spite, and more facts !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
And again, as I have posted previously, look closely into the organizations behind the various products, this has everything to do with their relative merits !
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Not just SolidWorks and Inventor.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
QUESTION? How many people really use Inventor?? The post on a bad bug is true. How could it be that it takes that long to find that bad and that dangerous a bug???
I must be using Inventor wrong, so what do I do so I can change a dim. in .idw?
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
for me it goes like this
solidworks
inventor
solidedge
these compete wth each other,the midstream cad packages, in my experience solidworks comes out tops because i can make it do what iwant with the least work arounds and compares similarily with the way i use the big cad apps i have limited experience of solidedge but have never heard of anyone slate it
when the inventor tech support asks me what i want to do and then goes to prove me wrong i can pull up 4 different packages that do what i want to without the oh you do it like thisline that seems to be prevalent
after my rant against inventor now im calm im still thinking they just need to catch up andthere may be hope
pro e is very good in fact having used it since version 18 i would whole heartedly say its good for engineers ,engineers are not nescesarily the same as cad guys and enginners tend to get the best out of it ,its an incredible misnomer in that they try to market it as an easy to use tool but once you have mastered it there are few limits to what you can achieve in terms of engineering a product and providing those tools in one hit (albeit an expensive hit)
i have always used pro and think its an excellent tool in fact its the only software i would give up my own hard earned cash for use at home if i had to!!! unfortunately high previous pricing and bad reputation creates a fear factor associated with it
catia and ug, as a contractor ive used both in anger usually cars and planes catia is the grown up version of solidworks and ug is the development of ideas both mind blowing in what you can do with them and theres not much you cant do on a systems or enginnering perspective
pro e i would liketo lump in with catia and ug but i cant due to its unique and sometimes baffling approach to new users
however the majority of companies dont do planes and dont do cars and proE just some times does too much that companies dont want to or have a use for it to do
therefore the midrange cad packages are more suitable and here to stay and for that selection based on results is what needs to be considered
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
what i think may be the problem as a SW user is that SW is easier to use
or is it that im so used to solidworks i expect inventor to work the same
maybe if inventor users spent time on solidworks they may think its easier/harder to get on with
I started on pro e harder to use than either ? no
more capable without a doubt
ill tell you what as i used to do some solidworks demos for VARs
heres how it works
1.the salesguy says to demo guy just do some examples of the product company x makes into a whizz bang flawless knock your pants of our software does everyting sales pitch
2.salesguy yep sell the software avoiding any but what if questions
3.company x goes wow thats great your software does everything we want it to because you said it does(and you hadaproduct that looks just like we make its obvious other people in our industry areusing it and its not a researched pre prepared presentation.
Now here i am with an autodesk sales guy and his whizzo demo guy selling me the features of his new IV11 sat the other side of a table trying to get us up from 6 to 30 seats, not really a good move considering for the past two months ive picked and prodded the flaws home to their own tech support guys.
The other side of the table have the operations director to my left whos had me demo the SW pro E and IV11 and the way it fits into our company andwhichpipeline is best to achieve our goals
the outcome of said meeting was kind of a middle east affair in that it descended to all out your wrong on all fronts and that never came from me but the rather embarrased sales rep
trying to be honourably defensive
not a good thing making an enemy of the potential purchaser
unfairly i was able to pick up on flaws that maybe wthout experience and certainly a lot of bias most folks new to picking a 3d package wouldnt have
Honest john doesnt exist especially in software sales so my advice is try them all and see which produces best for your company
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I would also mention that if you work in a niche market it is worth looking outside the big players, one of the reasons they are so big is they appeal to the masses because they are so general, that does not mean they are the best at specific tasks.
Also what do customers and suppliers use, do you need to keep models smart?
It is much easier to make an informed judgement if you have experience in 3D, whilst we all probably believe “my bed is the most comfortable” you do know what causes problems, to the best of my knowledge no sales guy has ever said our system is rubbish at that. If you just see a demo and have no 3D experience ALL the systems with their wizzo presentations look great and the chances are you do not even know the questions to ask let alone what to make of the answers.
Still G1design you do seem to be going away from this thread, can we please go back to the childish bickering, it is much more amusing.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
ht
h
http://w
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
YOu're right though, I should have stated it as offshore programmers rather than outsourcing.
Of course this statement firmly plants their company policy, which is probably true fir many companies now:
Autodesk CEO Carol Bartz stated that the salaries of Indian employees are about 15% or 20% of U.S. salaries, with China being even a little less. She added, "When you can get great talent at 20% of the costs, it isn't about waving the American flag. It's about doing what's right to have a good company."
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http://mc
why is this so difficult to understand?
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The security issue is very real, as this article makes clear. This is not "according to me", its not a personal concern, but a professional one.
http:/
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Sometimes in the case of acquisitions, (Like PDMWorks Enterprise), the programmers are in another country, in this case Scandinavia.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
time to stop beating a dead horse...
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Why is my handle 65Roses?
Please visit http://www.cff.org/aboutCFFoundation/About65Roses/ to learn why!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Anyway, Swx has since put a system in place that only allows the necessary people have access to whats needed and tracks it as a means to deter someone stealing it again.
The fact is, near anything can be stolen. We have security here where I work but its not impossible for someone to get in and steal important information. Difficult maybe, but not impossible. And its not uncommon for competitors to plant people to learn what the competition is up to.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
http
but they might be "lying" too...
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
The whole point here is that it was implied that Autodesk does not use Indian or Chinese programmers while Solidworks does and thus the use of SolidWorks is a security risk for companies in the US. The facts show that both companies use offshore programmers with Autodesk seemingly using more offshore programmers in both India and China and even stating it to the public in one of the article links posted above. Perhaps their hold on the source for their products is better than SolidWorks was.....perhaps Solidworks was just unlucky.....or perhaps their security at the time was too lax.....we'll probably never know for sure.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Simple and effective standard of proof, go look at each recent release of Inv. and watch AutoDESK brag about their new features, almost all of which have been on the other CAD packages for YEARS. Proof Positive, don't believe me go look.
A few Examples of present woes.
>Migrate files, ONLY necessary in Inventor. 2 Concurrent seats - not happening in Inventor. When you start to upgrade you are just down, your bad luck if a rush job comes in.
>Remove extra solids with a click NOT in Inventor
>Do anything beyond very simple surfaces NOT in Inventor.
>Extend an extrusion beyond a surface by set amount Not ...
Lets get real, only users who have an agenda or never truly learned other softwares will state they like Inventor over other CAD programs. Yes Inventor is a GOOD program, if this was 2000 it would be a great program.
As far as Vault goes we are still trying to get it up and running correctly (Easy to set up a single seat I will say). Yup its free but support is not and your VAR will really plug to come and set it up for a 4 figure fee. Never used PDMworks so no help there.
Oh yea all you SW or PRO fans give me a star for this nonsense I've wrote so this post will look like it means something really important.
Bah Humbug! Shoot Inventor....., I mean this Horse, It's almost Dead!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
DeSimulacra, common sense tells you that if IV were really as limited and underdeveloped as you suggest, their install base would not be 600,000 and growing! sorry to hear about you difficulties, but help is available....
rich942, thanks for the belly laugh about the "customer experience", i had almost forgotten about that!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
As far as help, be glad to answer any questions you have.
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I like SW, but still believe IV produced "prettier" drawings that were more in-line with published drafting standards (leader lengths, dimension offsets) right out of the box.
I have also found that the SW forums have a lot more content - higher end requests for help/questions. IMHO, the SW forum users have traditionally been pushing the software to the limits (and unfortunatley finding bugs). The IV forums have been lower-level (easy) requests. Does that mean that IV's higher-end functions are simpler than SW's? Idunno - it's just an observation.
To answer the original question, SW2007 has some pretty nifty functions that would definitely help with pulleys. I know that your issues could be "automated" to some extent with configurations and design tables in SW along with the Toolbox.
Good luck - please let us know what you personally come up with.
Air cooled, belt fed, gas operated machine gun firing from the open-bolt position
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
In the interest of giving people the benefit of my own experience using both Solidworks and Inventor I have posted a comparison of my own at:
http:/
I hope that this will help others in their choice of modelling software. I have tried to be objective and point out the flaws of both programs as well as the good points.
My aim is to add to this list on a regular basis and perhaps turn it into a downloadable pdf.
In any case take a look and see if any of this helpful. It's still a little rough at this stage but will be improved on.
I am more than happy to add other peoples suggestions to the list.
Best Regards
Adrian Dunevein
AAA Drafting Services
www.aaadrafting.com
http://home.cogeco.ca/~adunevein/
SW2006 Office Pro. SP4.1
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Just saw this in your document... "Both Solidworks and Inventor restrict you to only using circles to define detail views. This causes some problems when the detail circle takes up too much drawing space on the parent view. The ability to just drop a leader pointing to where the detail came from would help, but of course, that's not ANSI standard."
This is not true with SolidWorks. You can create a detail view using any sketch geometry around the area you want show. Check the help on this.
"Solidworks configurations either part or assembly cannot be used for PDM in situations where it is interfaced with Company BOM control systems which often require one part number per unique part file. These systems cannot handle single part or assembly files with multiple part or assembly numbers within them."
Although I agree its best to model part numbers as separate and distinct files for reasons of reduced complexity, your statement here could be very misleading to someone not in the know. It could be construed that PDMWorks just wont handle a file that has configurations in it. This is not true. It will handle the file just like any other file. The process for access to and revision of configuration information is a manual one dependent on the user. The process is much less automatic. As for compatability with other systems... There is a way to access config information using the SolidWorks/PDMWorks API and custom programming. Not exactly the words anyone wants to hear, but nonetheless other things become possible and limitations can be eliminated when employing these techniques. Exactly how they are employed, will be dependent on the system you are passing info to. Would I want to use PDMWorks in this situation - personally no. Is it possible - it could very well be. You also did not mention PDMWorks Enterprise (formerly Conisio). The data management/PDM tool from SolidWorks may be more constructed to handle the type of situations you mention. I have never used it, but do know that they advertise MRP/ERP connectivity support, and that they handle/support configurations differently.
Just passing along some info/critique. Thanks for the comparison. Its always interesting to see how different companies address the same problems facing users.
Pete
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Good list, but I saw a couple of things you might want to fix:
"The sketch module in Inventor requires more mouse clicks steps than Solidworks sketcher. In Inventor you sketch a line, and click to project the planes and axes you wish to constrain it to. No Midpoint constraint is available. You have to place a point on the middle of a line and constrain to that."
This is not entirely true, You can constrain to a midpoint in inventor there just isn't a dedicated "Midpoint" constraint. Inventor's constraints are based more along the lines of how they apply to GDT constraints not features. For instance, "Coincident" attaches a point to either a line or a point rather than needing a midpoint and an endpoint constraint to do the same thing.
"Solidworks allows you to open the part or assembly from the drawing views and access the part browser. Inventor does not allow you to open the part or assembly from the drawing file itself."
This is false, Inventor allows you to open the part or assembly file of any veiw by RMB on the view and selecting "open".
"Both Solidworks and Inventor restrict you to only using circles to define detail views. This causes some problems when the detail circle takes up too much drawing space on the parent view. The ability to just drop a leader pointing to where the detail came from would help, but of course, that's not ANSI standard."
I believe Inventor 11 allows the use of square detail views I can't confirm this because I do not yet have R11.
Just a few things I noticed.
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Thank you for your comments. I will make changes to my text.
As for the midpoint issue, you are correct about being able to sketch lines from midpoints in Inventor. My point is that you cannot constrain the midpoint of a line to the origin for example. In Inventor you have to place a work point on the midpoint of a line, then constrain the workpoint coincident to the origin.
As for the open RMB, it does not work in Inventor 7 no matter if I first click select edge, feature or part. I think this must be a difference between Inv 8 and 7. I will note this.
Your Comment about square detail views is interesting, I will see if I can verify it with one of our Inv 11 users here. That would be a useful feature.
Many Thanks
Adrian Dunevein
AAA Drafting Services
www.aaadrafting.com
http://home.cogeco.ca/~adunevein/
SW2006 Office Pro. SP4.1
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Don't select a feature of the view select the view border. If this still doesn't work then you are correct and it is a change from R7.
David
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
File Manipulation
Solidworks added "Pack n Go", Rename, and Copy functionality in Windows Explorer for 2007. This is also part of the revamped SolidWorks Explorer utility.
Drawing Module
As previously mentioned, You can sketch any shape you want for detail views. You have to set the detail view in the property manager to use the profile instead of a circle, it works but its a silly requirement that should be automatic like cropped views.
PDM
PDM/works workgroup does store configuration info and properties and you can search on them. PDM/works Enterprise stores profile cards for each configuration as well. In both cases, all configs are revised together. Workgroup doesn't really have a BOM feature and Enterprise's BOM feature is limited to one configuration for now.
Most other PDMs handle configurations as well, like DB/Works and Matrix. Matrix treats them as separate records.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
I consider myself an engineering professional, and I can tell you that the cost benefits were considerable, converting our autocad licenses to inventor. when SW starts offering even a small discount to autocad users, maybe it would be more of a contest. our managers, like most, don't care about the quality of the software. they want to know the bottom line.
As far as help, be glad to answer any questions you have.
thanks for the offer, but i'm not having problems with any of the items you listed!
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Glad you are doing your list. Hope you continue updating it.
A couple of notes. One, I think the Vault program is free?(see above post by me) correct me if I'm wrong. Two, everyone always mentions that SW can convert to .DWG (among other native formats), to be fair I think you should mention Inventor will not convert to any CAD native formats, many newbies might not catch this.
Also note that I have listed a few deficiencies in previous posts that have yet to be refuted. If you add to your list please check them to be sure I'm correct.
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Eddy
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Hope you don't get any negative posts or see any of the recent posts as negative. I have wanted to do what you have done for a long time, that is start a comparison list. I applaud your effort.
The only reason I post here is that is gives people who are looking for facts, not hype, a chance to compare software from the eyes of professionals. Even on this thread you have people who are not objective or knowledgeable, but usually they are gently corrected. Continue the good work.
Mark
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
im a newbie to solidworks but a mid-advance level to inventor10. i would like to know for all those solidworks user,, how often your system crash for making a 500 parts and above??? (including assembly and sub assembly) how long does it takes to regenerate a whole assembly and sub assembly???
(comparing solidworks to inventor with the same parts and numbers)
tnx
inventorer
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
Rebuilds times will vary greatly depending on your computer and whether you use top-down modeling.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2007 SP2.0 on WinXP SP2
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
tnx
inventorer
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
htt
and yes, there is a great difference between just the promise of import/export and doing it with full integrity. this agreement is a milestone in seamless file exchange, and the kind of thing you can do comfortably when you lead the market, as autodesk does ...