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Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007
28

Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

(OP)
3 years ago when I was last in a postition needing to evaluate and decide on a 3d cad package, the choice was quite easy. 3 years ago solidworks had the tools needed, and inventor was playing catch up. Now 3 years later I'm once again tasked with deciding, but the race seems a lot closer.

My company makes pulleys. The assemblies are small. A typical assembly may only have 8 parts. (adding bearings may bring this up to 50) The variety of sizes of each of those parts is almost endless. Each part we manufacture has almost infinite sizes. Each purchased part like bearings, is one of a hundred or so variations.

I like to automate as much as possible. Every style will be pre done as an assembly with all drawings. When a new job comes in we change every part parameter in an assembly, and have the already done drawing update. Clean it up, and print. (with solidworks this would be done with a design table at assembly level controlling a skeleton sketch and all parts drawn in contect and constrained to the skeleton)

Inventor used to lack configurations. Now it has them.
Soliworks used to lack drawing functions. Now it has them.
Solidworks still lacks good equations and global variables.
Inventor still lacks in some tools it has.

I guess both are able to do the job for me. Inventor has caught up quickly. Will it pass solidworks in the next few years?
Any comparasin I've read in the last couple months while researching has always been versions of a few years ago. Back when the biggest points were configurations and design tables. Now that distinction appears gone.

To anyone who is familiar with both in their current state, do you have any insight that might sway me one way or another?

How is autodesk vault compared to pdmworks?

Jarery

-------------

Randy

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Current Autodesk users who love using AutoCad products and have used only it over the course of the career are probably going to want to use Inventor. Everyone else (those who have used various products)know better and will choose something else with the majority choosiing SW. I would use SE long before I ever selected Inventor. I don't think Inventor will ever catch 100% up. SW had too much of a headstart for that to happen.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

4
It is my understanding that Inventor still lacks configurations. I think there are assy configs now...but not part configs.

Also..you assume that Inventor is adding features faster than Solidworks is. That I don't know for sure but Solidworks hasn't been sitting still.

Also you mentioned you are doing pulleys.....swx 2007 has added some tools for doing belts/chain type features with pulleys. You can do this from a conceptual standpoint with sketch blocks and a new belt/chain relation...or in the assembly with a belt/chain command.

Videos of it here:
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/SolidWorks_2007/SolidWorksOfficePremium2007.html

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

2
We are making the same comparison. Eliminated Alibre (too light weight) and Solid Edge (no VAR or training in our state) although otherwise good product. Down to Inventor which we have had since R8 and Solidworks which we have had since about 2001. Both are just now getting useable for us. Our final product is translating back to a .dwg for our customers.

SW seems to be more mature in most areas having more options and have better sketching, modeling, assemblies, and especially mates.

IV has better frame generator (by far) , better content center (vs SW lacking toolbox) and better weld symbol generator. Like some aspects of  drawing mode of IV better. Drawing translation back to .dwg better in Inventor so far.

We work with welded parts and standard pipe and flanges in larger assemblies. I had training in IV, another person in SW. I find more training available in SW (about 18 courses compared to 3 for Inventor). Even though my training was in IV I can usually achieve what I want easier in SW.

Have not got to Vault vs. PDMWorks yet.

I agree IV seems to be adding more features at a quicker rate and catching up, at least over the last few years. IV much lower initial investment by about 1/2 as we can trade up from expiring ACAD Mechanical. Still many things in IV take extra steps to generate and the labor savings can quickly offset initial investment. Example SW can generate variable pitch coil with thin wall extrusion. IV requires generating 3 seperate coils as surface then thickening and mating together. We project to surface a lot, SW can find the surface, IV requires projecting the surface then hiding it. So far we can accomplish what we need in IV, but we do require the extra steps. We use SW thin wall often for revolves and extrudes to create our heads and shells with IV this requires an extra step.

IV does come out with some features before SW. For example IV was the first to allow limiting section cut depth to a specific distance which is a huge time saver for what we do. In the SW forums at sdotson.com you can see a few other features in SW 2007 that are "catching up" to IV. Generally though SW is more feature rich.

Right now I would say we are leaning toward SW in spite of price difference, but will have more input over the next few weeks as we are finally actively reviewing both products again. Your needs are completely different though so you may come to a different conclusion. Hopefully you have current versions of both products and are putting them through the paces.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

(OP)
Thanks for the replies.
Yes we are evaluating both versions. But my own opinion is biased since I have several years experiance with SW and only a few weeks with IV. I know that most frustration and wasted time disappears once one has a year of use with an app and knows the best practices, and the fast workarounds for its shortcomings.

My lack of experiance with inventor is my reason for posting. I wanted to get opinions from those with more experiance in IV. So far it looks like SW would be the best overall. More expensive up front, but a thousand or 2 is quickly made up in time and frustration.

I just wanted to give IV full consideratin, and those more familiar with both may be better at guestimating the apps a few years into the future.

-------------

Randy

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

It's a simply choice between Solidworks and Solid Edge. Everyone else is playing catch-up.

Solid Edge V18 SP6 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

As I am a committed Inventor user my bias leans towards the Autodesk products.  To come up in defence for Inventor, the component generators are state of the art (this is a comment from a SW customer of mine) which for pulley design should do the trick nicely for you.  Get your Autodesk reseller to demonstrate that feature to you - the plus is that you mostly do not even have to go through the creation of sketches to achieve what you want.  I assembmled a 6 gear system with 3 shafts and associated bearings fully in the assembly mode without having to do a single sketch - all in about 15 to 20 minutes.  It does help if you have the requirements of the design beforehand but you are going to need that anyway.

Don't throw away Inventor - it has surpassed SW as the highest installed base internationally.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Highest installed base...care to back that up with some facts? Autodesk claims they have shipped more seats than Swx but go do a monster or career builder job search....there 3x the number of swx jobs than IV.

It helps to claim that number of seats when they give a free copy of IV to every Mech Desktop and Autocad Mechanical user. Also I've heard from Swx vars that Autodesk is steeply discounting IV by half or more. A company with number one sales don't usually discount their product like that......unless they have some big need. My guess is they are losing alot of Autocad users to Swx and they doing everything they can to stop the hemmoraging.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

2
We have all here at our company. SolidWorks is catching up and taking over the Inventor seats here. Inventor will stay a while for the die-hard ACAD users.
I prefer PDMW over Vault, because I think it has more options and I'm used to it. We will be implementing Vault for the die-hard facilities ACAD users, mainly because most of them do not understand any kind of PC file management and we got a good deal. ADESK is not clear on the future of Vault. PDMWorks works well for solid modeling users, especially for rev control.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

3
The one overwhelming, indisputable fact in all of this, is that Autodesk is by far the largest and most successful CAD software developer, and has dominated the market for as long as it has existed. This means, as in any other industry, that they can recruit the best and brightest programmers and analysts available. Their products reflect this superiority, and their enormous customer base confirms it. 'Nuff said about that !

I personally have grown to appreciate truly advanced features that directly enhance my ability to preform my job duties, much faster and more effectively than my long-suffering co-workers.

For the record, Inventor's Design Accelerators provide a level of functionality unique in the CAD software domain, and Vault is a truly integrated PLM package, not a manually driven add-on.

Much of what has been written here clearly indicates a lack of direct exposure to Inventor, idle speculation and supposition, based on marketing hype and hearsay. I am at this moment sitting in front of a workstation with both Inventor 11 and SolidWorks 2006 installed. There is no confusion in my mind as to which is the superior product !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Interesting where Autodesk would be without 3D Studio Max and Maya. I would be interested in looking at the sales volume of all of them.
Just curious.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

3D Studio and other animation products are relatively recent acquisitions for Autodesk, they were dominant in the engineering CAD market many years before expanding in that direction. Accurate and indepentantly compiled sales figures are available from Daratech and Dataquest. These are subscription services, for those of us who seriously track the industry, and participate in it as well. I've never really understood the unreasoning resentment by some, of Autodesk and their success. Its similar, I suppose, to Microsoft bashing, mildly interesting but futile ...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

How many major (and minor) aerospace firms rely solely on Autodesk products?  I think your statement that Autodesk "has dominated the market for as long as it has existed" is a bit broad.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

And go check out some other forums....there's quite a few disgruntled IV users and some converts that say Solidworks is better. It really depends on what you need from the software.....Solidworks does things better than IV does and vice versa....but superior....please.

Autodesk only dominates the market from it's Acad user base....which is converting to 3d...and which Autodesk finally realized they needed a decent product and came with IV late in the game. Only their deep pockets and loyal Acad users saved them losing out.

And if there were more IV users out there...then why does a Monster job search under the engineering catagory turn up 761 swx jobs....and Inventor turns up 222? 3.5x the number of IV jobs.......

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Our company has, don't remember exact number, hundreds of ACAD/Inventor users. A lot of them are slowly being taken over by SolidWorks. Our main CAD is CATIA.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I believe rich942 has wondered off into la la land again.
Always going to be a few like him out there. I guess that is what makes each and everyone of us unique in our own sense. With all that said Inventor will eventually lose out in the end to all the other MCAD players.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Last time I checked the top of this page, it was a forum for Inventor users. Makes me wonder why so many people with an axe to grind against Autodesk spend so much time browsing and posting here. Curious about what the best-selling product has to offer, perhaps ? If you want to really understand the various applications available, do what any good engineer would do, examine the source, and the qualifications of the people who produce them !

When someone with more than 21 years of CAD experience, and in excess of 32 years in engineering, with published credentials in the CAD software market, tries to convince me otherwise, I'll gladly listen. My current session of Inventor has been open and running for over a week, since I last rebooted the machine, and I've got work to do ...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Last time I looked....this guys question was regarding Inventor "And" Solidworks.

And I hang around "other" forums cause I like to see what other cad programs have to offer. They all have their strengths and weakness....some have more than the other though.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have no axe to grind, but after 21 years of CAD experience in the aerospace industry, I have yet to work for a company that actually uses AutoCad.  That leaves me wondering where your numbers are coming from.
I am in this forum for the same reason as Jason, to expand my CAD horizons.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich someone with that much experience is out of date. No wonder you like the same old, same old of Autodesk products. Get with the times!

Oh by the way then why have you started two threads on the SW forum yourself? Sounds like to me you are scared to death your beloved ACAD is going down the tubes.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

We have hundreds of ACAD seats, only a hand full actually know much how to use them.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich someone with that much experience is out of date. No wonder you like the same old, same old of Autodesk products. Get with the times!

If you do a little research, you will find that Autodesk launched Inventor as a completely independent project in the early 90's. We've had a few people here who didn't respect experience, they usually don't keep up with the veterans, but most DO listen, and benefit from it !

Oh by the way then why have you started two threads on the SW forum yourself? Sounds like to me you are scared to death your beloved ACAD is going down the tubes.

I am occasionally asked to make inquiries on the SW forum, on behalf of co-workers struggling with problems I don't have with Inventor. I have found the folks on the SW forum very helpful, but I have no other interest in SW currently, as we are replacing those seats with IV. And if you read my posts carefully, you will see no mention of using AutoCAD, I upgraded to AME in 1989, Mechanical Desktop and Inventor with the initial releases of each.

ctopher makes an excellent point, many AutoCAD users learn perhaps 10 % of the program's functionality, but still manage to get their work done. Cadkey, Microstation, VersaCAD, Anvil, and many others fell into obscurity, AutoCAD is still a best-seller in the 2D domain.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

....AME is Autocad......the 3d segment of it that is...you still had to use Autocad with it. And if IV was developed so early in the 90's...then why did MDT come about around the same time Solidworks and Solidedge did? It was Autodesks desperate attempt to add 3d parametrics to Autocad to try an compete and they create a dismal product....though it was probably the best they could do writing it on top of Acad.

MDT couldn't compete with Swx and SE so they wrote rubicon which became Inventor......a product that looks more like Solidworks than Autocad. Inventor's a capable product...but hardly superior to anything else out there. Time for Autodesk to get used to the competition....something they haven't really had to worry about with Acad.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"...AutoCAD is still a best-seller in the 2D domain."

Maybe true, but don't confuse "best-seller" with BEST.

People use ACAD because people use ACAD.  A justification for ditching our original 2D CAD system was "I can stand outside Woolworths and shout "I need a ACAD draughtsman" and half a dozen will walk up to me".
(It wasn't true, but then we are talking about higher management!!)
 

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"...AutoCAD is still a best-seller in the 2D domain."
The OP was about 3D.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"I can stand outside Woolworths and shout "I need a ACAD draughtsman" and half a dozen will walk up to me"

So very true!

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

To dispel some of the revisionism and hearsay about the history of CAD software development, here is a link to a comprehensive compilation of significant events in the evolution of CAD. I have found this to be an accurate account, it matches my recollection of events from the mid-80s and on. Read and enjoy !

http://mbinfo.mbdesign.net/CAD-History.htm

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I realize this is rather unscientific, but here's some data from Eng-Tips, and you may come to your own interpretations:

Inventor forum:
2681 Members
61 helpful posts counted on the MVP page.

SW forum:
14797 Members
Well over 1000 helpful posts counted on MVP page.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

rich942,

Your link to the history of CAD is absolutely excellent, and brings back a lot of memories to another "experienced" CAD engineer; and although I use Pro/E and this is an Inventor forum, I really appreciate the link you provided - it is very interesting to see the rise and fall of different CAD companies over the last decades.

It's a shame that SolidWorks users and resellers try to use this forum to promote their product, and cause frustration for members like yourself for which this forum is supposed to be for.

We all think that our CAD system is better than the rest, and it will be very very intersting in 5 or 10 years time to see the updated "history of CAD" and see which of the current frontrunners no longer exist. Put yourself back 10 years, who would have guesssed that Computervision and SDRC would not survive. Who will still be there in 2016?

Best regards, and good luck to all current CAD vendors in the future.........

John

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

It's a shame that SolidWorks users and resellers try to use this forum to promote their product, and cause frustration for members like yourself for which this forum is supposed to be for.

Its an open forum, just one of many, and I assume that SW users browse here out of curiosity about Inventor. The REALLY lively forums are the subscription sites. I won't disrespect the webmasters here by promoting a competitor, but it IS a big Internet world out there ! But I AM mildly annoyed by the disinformation about Inventor, although I suspect the folks in San Rafael are not losing any sleep over it !

I realize this is rather unscientific, but here's some data from Eng-Tips, and you may come to your own interpretations:

Inventor forum:
2681 Members
61 helpful posts counted on the MVP page.

SW forum:
14797 Members
Well over 1000 helpful posts counted on MVP page


I would interpret this to mean that Inventor users do not require as much assistance, the Help files are very sophisticated and well indexed, and the tech support is first-class ! But I do not believe for a minute that there is any logical correlation between job postings and installation base numbers.

JohnAndrews, I was never that fond of Computervision, although they improved the product after merging with Prime. But I do miss SDRC, it was an excellent package, very stable and innovative. I see its influence in Inventor, and wonder if some of the IDEA-S developers migrated to Autodesk. BTW, we have a very successful division still using Pro/E, with a vast legacy of project files, wouldn't make any sense for them to switch.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Sorry, but I have to put in my 2 cents.

Most Autodesk users learned the software because:
1. Free training by job/coworkers
2. Recieved a free illegal copy from friends/coworkers 15 years ago and never learned anything else.
3. Are not engineers or designers, but learned it because it was cool and the tool to learn...
4. Looked good on the resume.
5. Cheap training at a local HS or JC.
6. A lot of companies use it because it's ease of use.

There are not as many Adesk users at Eng-Tips as other CAD users because, most are not much PC literate.

Most SolidWorks users learned the software because:
1. They can all of the above and more.
3. SolidWorks can take Adesk files and translate between them, and to other high end CAD software.
4. Most SW users have more design experience backgrounds.
5. Most pick SW after carefully studying different CAD software because they know what they are looking for, and have the money to purchasing them.
6. Training is specialized and cost $$.
7. Most Adesk users wouldn't notice I skipped #2. (just kidding)

This is not a Adesk bashing by no means, just from my experience working with all types of CAD users.

rich942, Great link! I had it saved from a long time ago, but forgot about it. Thanks for sharing.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Nice discussion. In my opinion there is no better or best software package among the mid-range CAD packages. (Solid Works, Inventor, Solid Edge and some other).

The term mid-range is a compilation of solid modelers able to run on a decent PC with a high level of new features at each release. As a 3D freak I always check out these new features to make life and work easy (say smart).

But after about 10 years of modeling at several companies I learned that it has nothing to do with the software but all about the required level of automation in your models.

The main ingredient for automation = ROBUSTNESS!

A robust Assy enables you to handle engineering changes properly without collapsing models at the first touch. This is usually achieved by the basic features (revolve, extrude, hole, fillet, etc) and not by the newly presented features.

Robustness needs a lot of anticipation BEFORE you start your work and a STRUCTURED way of enineering with modular built sub-assy's.


Greetz,

Martin

Unigraphics NX4,NX3,NX2,R17
Inventor 10,9,8,7
Solid Edge 10,9,8
Solid Works 2000,98
Mechanical Desktop 4,3
Autocad 2004DX,2000,R14, R12
Teamcenter 9

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Martin makes a very valid point.  There is no one "best" CAD package out there.  They are tools.  There are "best" packages for what your needs are, but those needs differ greatly.  Why go to a BMW mechanic if you ride a bike?  The difficult part comes in choosing the right tool for the job.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

The members number here is misleading...anyone that visits a forum gets added as a member.....so forums probably has a number of members that are just curious "other" cad users. The is not a very large Inventor presence here....but there are other forums where there is a larger number. www.mcadforums.com is Seean Dotsons forum and has quite an IV following there. He also has other cad program forums but since it started as an IV user forum...there's not much activity in the others.


And Rich, as for you saying that IV users don't need as much assistance because of IV's excellent help....go look at macadforums and see the complaints there...lots of them. There's even some posts from an IV user about how much better Solidworks help is compared IV...so I don't that has much to do with the lack of IV questions here.


And please explain why job postings is not a good indication of install base. Are you saying that for some reason, companies that use IV don't need people that know IV?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I learned both solidworks and inventor simultaineously. I was taking classes in both but was self taught in most repects. I like both programs but have found inventor to be better suited for me. I may think differently if I had more time to work with SW but having had equal oppertunity to work with both pieces of software and doing the same project on both, I chose inventer as my preference. I found inventor more intuitive and easier to navigate.

I also had a similar experiance with 2d software. I learned AutoCad and Cadkey at the same time and I would choose Cadkey over AutoCad in a heartbeat. So I am not just clinging to AutoDesk out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. Just my two bits.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

There are not as many Adesk users at Eng-Tips as other CAD users because, most are not much PC literate.

This is an unwarranted assumption, and I find it amusing, considering that so many of us that have used Autodesk products since the mid-80's now have 20 years or more of PC and Windows experience ! We fought hard for the acquisition of computer hardware and software, at a time when conventional wisdom said that engineering documents would ALWAYS be produced manually, pencil and paper. If you are under 40 years old, you owe the current CAD environment to those of us who risked our jobs and our reputations to advocate the transition to CAD.

4. Most SW users have more design experience backgrounds.

AutoCAD 1983, SW 1995. ?

And please explain why job postings is not a good indication of install base.

That one is easy ! For the same reason that the number of applications for a driver's license would not be any indication of the number of cars on the road.

A robust Assy enables you to handle engineering changes properly without collapsing models at the first touch. This is usually achieved by the basic features (revolve, extrude, hole, fillet, etc) and not by the newly presented features. Robustness needs a lot of anticipation BEFORE you start your work and a STRUCTURED way of enineering with modular built sub-assy's.

Words of wisdom ! Wish I had written that !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote (rich942):


That one is easy ! For the same reason that the number of applications for a driver's license would not be any indication of the number of cars on the road.

This is a "straw man" argument, although I grant that the analogy you made was appropriate for the wording of Jason's question.

Number of open positions vs. install base by itself is similar to DL applications vs. cars on the road.  You can make no prediction on the actual number of cars on the road based on the number of open DL applications at any given time.

However, Jason's argument was one of ratios.  Comparing the ratio of, say, automobile license applications to motorcycle applications, one may reasonably assume some measure of correlation to the ratio of automobiles on the road to motorcycles on the road.  

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote (rich942):

There are not as many Adesk users at Eng-Tips as other CAD users because, most are not much PC literate.

This is an unwarranted assumption, and I find it amusing, considering that so many of us that have used Autodesk products since the mid-80's now have 20 years or more of PC and Windows experience ! We fought hard for the acquisition of computer hardware and software, at a time when conventional wisdom said that engineering documents would ALWAYS be produced manually, pencil and paper. If you are under 40 years old, you owe the current CAD environment to those of us who risked our jobs and our reputations to advocate the transition to CAD.
From my experience, it's nothing to do with when ACAD came out or how it works with Windows, it's users that become lazy and stick with one program and don't move on. I never said it's ALL users, just most that I have seen.

Quote:

4. Most SW users have more design experience backgrounds.
AutoCAD 1983, SW 1995.?
Also has nothing to do with which CAD came first.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

To assume that the ratios don't jive you have to have reasons for why they don't. Basically it means you have to give some kind of special condition like:

Companies that use IV don't need new users as often as companies that use Solidworks cause:

1. IV users are happier and don't leave their jobs.
2. Those companies aren't growing their business such that it causes them to increase their staff.
3. Those companies are unable or unwilling to increase staff when needed.

Now number 1 I rather doubt....browsing the more active IV forums shows that IV has as many if not more bugs and issues than Swx. Most users won't leave a company anyway just because of dissatisfaction of the program they use.

As for number 2....wouldn't make sense that companies that chose IV aren't increasing business or are worse off in some way. I'm sure some Swx VARs would love to jump on that say it because they chose IV but we all know that's not the case.

Number 3 is the same thing....software choice is not likely to influence whether management decides to increase staff or not...though in the case of the high end cad programs I could see a budget situation cause they cost so much....at least for smaller companies using them.

Feel free to add more situations if you can think of any. I'm sure you could add something like "IV saves so much time that new users aren't needed" but I find it highly unlikely that IV has an advantage over Solidworks to such great extent that using it would save more time. Sure there are different areas where it may be better but the same could be said about Solidworks......it all evens out....and thus the number of job posting is a good indicator of the ratio of the companies using Solidworks versus Inventor.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

To assume that the ratios don't jive you have to have reasons for why they don't. Basically it means you have to give some kind of special condition like:

My point is that internet job postings are no indication whatsoever of the installation base of any given software package. There is no "ratio" between these two conditions. Many of the best jobs never appear in any listing, print or online, but are filled by personal referals. Many other listings do not specify any particular software requirements (such as those placed by my current employer, as we are in transition from SW to Inventor). The assumption is that any reasonably well-educated and experienced engineer or designer can effectively use whatever software is selected by the program managers. Ultimately, all we have to go by are the sales figures, as provided by independant and unbiased sources, to determine who is leading the market. For my part, I would not choose any working tool ONLY because it was the "most popular", I also have to be convinced that it serves my purposes, is stable and well-structured, and is the product of a reputable and successful organization.

From my experience, it's nothing to do with when ACAD came out or how it works with Windows, it's users that become lazy and stick with one program and don't move on. I never said it's ALL users, just most that I have seen.

The point is, that most current Inventor users did NOT "stick with one program", but chose to advance from 2D to 3D within the Autodesk product line. That's not "lazy", just good budget management, and still required the acceptance of a steep learning curve. Certainly Autodesk has enjoyed the advantage of a huge legacy installation base, and has rewarded their loyal accounts with discounts and free technical assistance. Its just good business for all concerned.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

True...many jobs never do get listed...but what you fail to explain is why that situation would be exclusive to companies using IV. Taht decision would have nothing to do with a particular cad program a company uses. If you put a figure out there and say that 25% of companies never post job listings, that applies pretty much equally to companies using Pro/, Solidworks, Inventor, etc.

As for chosing what's popular.....we certainly didn't. We chose Swx back in 98 when it was relatively unknown after evaluating Swx, Solidedge, Pro/E, and Mech Desktop. We ruled out IV cause it was in it's first released and not worth the risk at the time. Now most Autocad users on the other hand do go with IV cause it's an Autodesk product. Several Autocad users here started pushing it when we were getting ready to buy Swx even after we pointed out that it was in it's first release and likely not a mature enough product.

And where do those sales figures come from? Of course Autodesk themselves in their quarterly statements...problem is knowing what the numbers mean. All mechanical desktop and Autocad mechanical get IV for free....yet Autodesk counts that as a seat of IV whether they use it or not. Not to mention cases where Autodesk practically gives the software away. There was a comparison done by someone a while back that showed how IV outsold Swx....yet didn't make near the revenue from it that Solidworks did. IMO, Autodesk is in panic mode and doing what it can try and stop from losing more customers. I would do the same.....and this is really just what they needed cause prior to IV, they have been pretty stagnant since they had no real competition.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

What an amusing thread this has turned into with people from both “sides” coming out with some spurious allegations thinly disguised as facts.

Why can people not except that each product can be the best for certain requirements and other products will be better and worse for other requirements. Even if one is better if the operator is not comfortable with it then it is not the best for them for the same reason as we all find our own beds the most comfortable?

I will set my Dad on anyone who disagrees with me and my Dad is bigger than your Dad.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

What about Bugs!

In parts of the discussion, the number of users/forums/licenses/bugs/ is indicated to say which package is best (or worst).

Now about the bug part. I am for 100% sure there will never ever be a bug free CAD software package. Not for Inventor and not for Solid Works.

Reason: Companies need to bring out new releases in order to keep making money!

If they would develop a package which would be perfect, then nobody would buy a new release of it anymore. At least not my boss.

I always enjoy a good discussion with software resellers and distributors. My trick is to ask them what is the approximate number of system crashes by their software bugs. Once a week, once a month, once a year? Don't accept that they answer the question that it depends on your skills. In the end they would generally say once a month.

In return I say to them: what if I bought a new car. Would I also accept that it fails once a month when I am driving in it on the highway?

1-0 for you, they generally agree and understand that you are not a schoolboy they can fool around with. It is also a great point of bargaining for those of you who are in the position of purchasing those products. Let them sweat a little more!!!



 

Unigraphics NX4,NX3,NX2,R17
Inventor 10,9,8,7
Solid Edge 10,9,8
Solid Works 2000,98
Mechanical Desktop 4,3
Autocad 2004DX,2000,R14, R12
Teamcenter 9

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Yes, they all have bugs. They are not always releasing new version for $$. Of course, it helps, and is part of marketing. Users come up with new ideas which get incorporated into new releases. As more users come aboard, more bugs/fixes are found.
I find that most problems come from not the CAD software, but from how the pc is setup/configured and user errors.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I think... We are all different and if one has to build a box - there are several ways to build it and several tools one could use for this job - there are different logics. The same is with SW and IV - it's all about someone's logic and how SW-s or IV-s toolset supports this logic ("when building a box")...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

If you put a figure out there and say that 25% of companies never post job listings, that applies pretty much equally to companies using Pro/, Solidworks, Inventor, etc.

There are far too many variables to make this assumption.

And where do those sales figures come from? Of course Autodesk themselves in their quarterly statements

And from Dassault's website as well. The sales numbers at least indicate the potential size of each user base.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=5417320

There was a comparison done by someone a while back that showed how IV outsold Swx....yet didn't make near the revenue from it that Solidworks did.

Software pricing is a tricky business ! When I was developing AutoCAD add-ons in the mid 90's, I certainly wasn't setting the price based on the value of a 3.5 inch floppy ! I wanted to get a fair return for my efforts, but still make it affordable. Inventor is the upgrade path for many existing Autodesk products, with an appropriate price structure. New seats of SW will always cost more than an Autodesk upgrade, hence the higher revenue for fewer seats sold.

In the final analysis, we chose to phase out SW here for a variety of user dissatisfaction issues, and also to avoid the embarrassment of an American defense contractor using a foreign-owned product. This may become mandatory in the future, for security reasons.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote (rich942):

...to avoid the embarrassment of an American defense contractor using a foreign-owned product. This may become mandatory in the future, for security reasons.
I work for a major defense company, we are phasing OUT Inventor. Has nothing to do with SW or CATIA being foreign-owned or for security reasons, just that Dassault's software being industry standard for us (mechanical design).
Over all, I have seen most CAD software working. I pick SolidWorks over all of them.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

2
Another reason not to use The slow to respond, lets make more money, just tell'em we are the best, oversized corp. AUTODESK.

"I just received an email from an Autodesk dealer and it mentions that essentially all 2004 versions of Autodesk design products including AutoCAD, AutoCAD Mechanical, Architectural Desktop, etc. are being “retired” on March 15, 2007."From Alibre CEO Blog/Tenlinks daily.
THREE YEARS OLD and obsolete!!! Whoa get out your pocketbook, again. (Did I mention Inventor has one of the highest percentage maintenance fees?)

And I say it yet again, I'm unbiased not paid for my opinion, work in a JobShop, and have been using 3D cad since before some of you were a gleam in your daddies eye, Inventor is near the bottom for usability unless you are doing the simple stuff. Oh and yes I'm presently using Inventor and have used AutoCAD since v.2. circa 84. Good Software..but not the best by far and not catching up, just trotting behind.
 As far as stability when I arrived at this location they had all kinds of problems with Inventor crashing. I spec’ed a system for them and voila poof no problems. Use the correct hardware (for those not computer geeks think of a hotrod car with a 1000 HP and a stock transmission from a 4 cylinder.. vroom…. Crash ;=}  ).
 Man on a mission because I had to start with the dog and pony shows the software reps put on. Kinda like statistics, did you know 85% of all statistics were incorrect? Sorry I have a hard time being serious this long.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

2
whats with all of the autodesk-bashing ? have you guys really used inventor? seen the feature list, used iparts and iassemblies, real table driven models? how about an "undo" feature thats available all the time on more than the last step, and intelligent fasteners that really work? adaptivity eliminates the need for most part editing, and the engineering tools are top notch!

dassault will never allow solidworks to compete with their flagship product catia, it will always be just mid-range. autodesk has nothing to worry about!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Sorry.....iParts and iAssemblies have nothing on configurations.

Agreed....Undo in IV is better.

Dassault doesn't hinder Solidworks development.....some of the newer surfacing tools even come from Catia code such as Fill surface. Also....Solidworks is now outselling Catia on a seat count basis...doesn't sound like they are holding them back.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I'm not bashing Autodesk. They do have a good product.
You are correct, autodesk (Autodesk) has nothing to worry about ... Mechanical vs Architectural based.
If I wanted to be an Arch or civil engineer, I would be using the Autodesk products at their full capabilities. Being mechanical, I'll stick with the mid-range SolidWorks for my military and aerospace projects.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote:

Sorry.....iParts and iAssemblies have nothing on configurations.

your information on iassemblies is out-of-date. here is an updated description:

• Create an iAssembly factory from which member assemblies can be created by
editing the associated assembly table.

• Specify Part Number indexing and member naming schemes.

• Use Autocapture mode to modify the iAssembly table by capturing changes made while modeling.

• Use Microsoft Excel® 1 to incorporate logical expressions in the configuration table.

• Place a selected member of an assembly configuration into another assembly.

• Specify an iAssembly member in consuming documents such as drawings, presentations, and derived assemblies.

• Add new members to the assembly configuration while using the Place Member dialog.

The Autodesk Inventor Bill of Materials supports iAssemblies displaying a single structure view that contains the aggregated item list. Each configuration is displayed as a separate column showing quantity (QTY) differences across members.
Using the BOM editor you can display one member at a time or the entire set of members at once.
The Vault supports assembly configurations allowing you to select and check out specific members of a configuration.
The Vault can locate the factory, or parent, file from a member and can also locate other files that make use of the member file using the where-used capability.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Haven't used the iAssembly tools yet.  If it's anything like the blazing speed of the "Content Center", then I doubt I ever will.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Actually, that's how ACAD works ... 2D.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Wouldn't crash though. Unless you drop it.

Solid Edge V18 SP6 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

i'm glad to see that any technical concerns about Inventor have been addressed and satisfied! the "etch-a-sketch" mockery is the same tired attempt at humor that was used by old dinosaur pencil pushers,to trivialize the superiority of early CAD systems over manual drafting.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Cookieman has lost his cookies!

Now the old dinosaurs are those who insist on using Autodesk products over the superior ones.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

i suppose that personal assumptions about a person you do not know, are in keeping with disdain for a product you have clearly never seen nor used. Autodesk's billion dollar annual revenue says it all, the market has spoken, end of story.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Wrong again Cookieman. Used ACAD R8 thru 2004, Mechanical Desktop, Microstation, CATIA, CADAM and SW. Also evaluated IV and SE. As a matter of fact I probably have more seat time on Autodesk products than any of the others. The truth is Bentley dropped the ball with Microstation. CATIA is high end and can be cumbersome. CADAM was good in its time but now is an out of date 2d package. Mechanical Desktop was absolutley the worst of them all and Inventor isn't much better.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

That billion dollar revenue sure doesn't come from Inventor, not by a long shot.

I guess Google is the largest most successful cad company since they own Sketchup? Or maybe it's Microsoft since they own Visio?

Don't confuse overall company revenue with an individual product they sell. Otherwise I'll have to say that Microsoft has the largest most successful image editing software since Paint is included with every copy of Windows.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

True. As I mentioned earlier, our company is slowly phasing out Inv. and bringing in SW. SW is more efficient with importing/exporting files between us and vendors/customers.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

this seems to be more about unreasoning hatred of Autodesk than about their products. if anyone else had the better sales figures, i'm sure they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

lighten up guys! have a good chuckle,check out sw's newest effort!

http://www.cosmicblobs.com/

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Yes, it's been out since last year.
It's to help with the transition from ACAD to SW.
rofl

just kidding.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

3
I tried to make IV work for 4 years before switching to SW. There is about 10 things from IV I would love to see in SW. But SW has a hundred things IV doesn’t. It’s funny, most of the things I like best about IV… was there when they released it. Like the original developers left… or maybe ADSK even outsourced the initial development.

I’m surprised eng-tips even has an IV forum. You can’t make a better board than Adsk.com. Of course any negative IV talk quickly gets stifled. A few weeks ago there was a huge hate thread over IV’s content center and adsk pulled it. Then they said they tried to retract some misinformation and accidentally deleted the thread. Ya right.

Watching the IV board for many years I’d say most there are drafters and students. The room lights up for rendering questions. There are lots of questions about sheetmetal from people who know nothing about bend allowance. You see a lot of questions that go on for a while then you find out the guy is modeling a car or nuclear reactor or skateboard. (playing with IV) I’ve seen a lot of die and mold people come and go. Tooling is tough. Tooling guys are the ones that really use the hell out of cad. IV has great constraints and automation design is possible but again, SW has greater tools for machinery.  Product Engineers I’ve worked with spend a lot more time researching than drawing. I could see them warming up to IV’s ease of use and sophisticated UI.

I do feel most of the seats sold aren’t being used. As indispensable 3d may be for some, it really is a huge jump and I'm sure test projects have been a big waste of time for many. When you look at adsk “customer successes” you see a lot of east Europe companies. Some don’t even have a web site. I know Adsk offered my main customer (big, well known name) complete installations, free of charge, if they would just use IV for a project.

The people using IV most are probably small manufacturers making valves or drawer knobs and such. And their whole catalog is in acad and they probably bought IV because it was cheap upgrade and thought it would convert acad the best. Funny, but SW is much superior for converting acad… But they don’t need all the high powered tools and without a doubt, IV is much easier to learn and use. There are a lot of furniture and cabinet guys at adsk.com. They are always asking for a woodworking version of IV. Hehe. And you know… the world might not have been big enough for multiple makers of 2D, but it might be for 3D. I don’t think IV gives a crap about me (tooling).  It took 9 releases before they programmed built in screw holes. While mfg has become hand to mouth, construction projects are like printing money. And, although adsk says IV is for mech, I think… mech is just a vertical market to fund the programs overall development. IV doesn’t have any packaged tool steel materials… but it’s got 10 different carpet textures. Hehe.



Personally, I’m super happy with what SW does. I’m not as happy with how it does it… When you do a job, any job, there are hard parts and easy parts. Sometimes you do the easy stuff first to make progress while thinking about the hard stuff. Sometimes you better do the hard stuff first or you’ll have to redo the easy stuff …I’d say SW did the hard stuff first.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Don't change your horse (in mid-stream or otherwise).  I'm a SW certified expert,' or was 2 years ago before I switched jobs.  The new place was addicted to Autodesk, so we got Inv against my recommendation (Keep in mind, before I got my SW cert, I ran Adesk AdvanceModellingExtension for ACAD v10 around '92, Adesk MechanicalDesktop beginning with v1.2 circa '97, and evaluated the Inv Product in '03 side-by-side with SW)

I can get Inv to do what I need, most of the time.  However, I long for the days when I could use SW.  SW is a better product across the board.

andy

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Yes I just tried to dimension to a midpoint. Didn't work, most of the time it does. Hehe.
 The 10 versions of carpet..; Good point maybe I've been looking at Inventor the wrong way, I've been trying to do complex mechanical work. I have to say I have designed one house and one commeriacl bldg. with Inventor and it does those well!!

I vote for Inventor as the best architectural 3D software, now keep AutoDESK out of my Job Shop.

 Thats all I got to say about that.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Surely that is the whole point NO system is the best for everything, it depends on what you are trying to do on it.

Diemaker1 I am surprised you went for SW if your main work is tooling, there is at least one product out there that is vastly superior and no it is not inventor.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Autodesk would have a nice product if they combined ACAD, Inventor & Revit. But, for most users it would be overwhelming. Those of us that know 3D mech design wouldn't have a problem learning it quickly.
I would like to see some architectural thrown in with SolidWorks. I was told by them, not any time soon.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Here is some interesting historicla data related  to seat counts. I have been tracking this since 2002:

Monster.com

February 2002

Solidworks              179 positions
SolidEdge               5
Pro-E                   266
Catia                   233
Unigraphics             125
Mechanical Desktop      81
AutoCAD                 1655
Inventor                8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 2004

Solidworks              585 positions
Inventor                99           (14.5%) (between IV & SWX only)
Pro-E                   436
Mechanical Desktop      134
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
April 2005

Solidworks              550 positions
Inventor                138        (20%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
March 2006

Solidworks              769 positions
Inventor                252          (25%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
August 2006

Solidworks              767 positions
Solid works             222
Inventor                243       (20%)
Pro-E                   577
ProE                    207
Mechanical Desktop      50







RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

The problem with that data is the source.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"Here is some interesting historicla data related  to seat counts."

Interesting historical data, yes. Related to seat counts, of course not !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

You still never countered with info as to why it doesn't. I guess the 1000's of hits for Autocad doesn't indicate that there's a lot more Autocad out there than anything else?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"I guess the 1000's of hits for Autocad doesn't indicate that there's a lot more Autocad out there than anything else?"

Actually, it doesn't ! It simply reports the number of current job openings at any given time, not the overall installation base, these are two entirely separate issues. Monster does not track the software industry, there are other organizations that do. If you choose to discredit the official report of any particular software developer, due to personal distrust, then research the facts and figures elsewhere, as I have done. No one would ever evaluate the size or viability of any industry, solely on the number of job postings.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

There are also hundreds of companies world wide that have illegal seats of each, especially AutoCAD.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Still you neglect to say why number of job openings doesn't not correlate to the number of seats for software out there, especially when comparing to similar software packages. You're saying that there are lot more Inventor seats out there than there appears from job listings. That for some reason, companies using Inventor don't need people with Inventor experience or that they don't post jobs.

Do you care to list an organization that lists number of seats that is not from the cad companies themselves. All cad companies that give you numbers give you a total commercial install base that is total seats shipped since day one. If a customer doesn't use it, its still counted. Pro/E has a hugh total listed....but many have left Pro/E for IV or Swx, or SE...yet PTC will still count it.

So where are your facts and figures that you have researched?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have responded to each of these issues, to the best of my ability, previously in this thread. Repeating these answers will not make them any more acceptable. The actual number of active seats of any software package is impossible to know at any given time, so we have only the total licenses shipped, to evaluate the relative success of the competing products in the marketplace. Inventor's sales figures have exceeded all other mid-range modelers for the past five years, according to every source I have encountered. And I like my job, so I'm not particularly concerned about the Monster postings !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

So where's your research you keep speaking of.....and no...you have never answered why the number of jobs don't correlate. If I look in the paper and see twice as many ads for Ford F-150s for sale than Chevy Silverados, I can reasonably conclude that Ford sold more unless you can provide a reason to show otherwise. Compared to Toyota, you might say that Ford trucks are less reliable and thus people sell them more than Toyota owners. But Ford and Chevy (or Swx and IV) have a similar track record regarding quality and features. There's no reason for the ads or jobs in this case to not be a reliable indicator to the ratio of seats in use. Of course it can't tell you how many seats are out there (Autodesks own numbers claim more)...only that there are more Solidworks seats in use than there are Inventor seats by around 3 to 1. With Solidworks having sold an estimated 228,788 commercial seats (source: CADCAMNET.com), its reasonable to conclude that there around 75000 to 100,000 Inventor seats in use.

Total seats shipped doesn't mean much......Alibre might claim that they have a couple hundred thousand seats out there but how many are actually being used. Autodesk practically gives Inventor away or deeply discounts it. I've heard from other Solidworks users where Autodesk came in and offered to replace all Solidworks with Inventor for free....just pick up maintenance. That's probably why Autodesk's Inventor revenues are less than Solidworks even though they suppossedly sell more seats. Also notice that the last two quarterly statements have ommitted the number of commercial Inventor seats that they usually mention, so are they still selling more than everyone else?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I know in Hong Kong you can purchase any of the CAD programs on the street for $10, with real license. I have seen it and they work. THey are installed like the real deal without any cracking
So, those seats are out there, not counted, and revenues not accounted for.
I agree with Jason.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Here's just one example:

http://wohlersassociates.com/press38.htm

There are many others on the subscription-only sites of organizations that track the industry, Daratech and Dataquest for example, as I posted much earlier in this thread. But a quick Google search will yield numerous free sources of this same information. The numbers speak clearly, Inventor outsells its direct competitors.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

rich,
Good info, but was for 2004.
I know of a few companies that in the past 12 months have switched from Inventor to SolidWorks. It is slowly moving that direction at our company now.

Curious, who is Autodesk Inventor's direct competitors? We usually only hear about SolidWorks or SolidEdge. CATIA is not a competitor, probably less seats sold than Inv, but a different league of its own. (same for UGS)

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I just knew that someone would point out that the data was from 2004 ! Give these guys a break, it takes time to compile accurate data ! This is typical in the software industry, and others as well. Its considerably more meaningful than speculation based on job postings ! I'm confident that the 2006 report will reflect a continuation of this trend.

If you saw the entire report (we have a copy here), you would appreciate the care in validating active seat count data, its done with real surveys, taken independently, not marketing hype.

As I posted previously, our decision here to discontinue the use of SW, and replace those seats with Inventor, was based on two things, SW's offshore origins (security concerns), and instability with large assemblies. When our SW VAR couldn't resolve the rejection of Toolbox parts by PDMWorks, a directive was issued company-wide to switch our approx 150 engineering seats to IV. The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich, I'm not bashing you. You give good input. Thank you.
"SW's offshore origins (security concerns)"??
Interesting. I have not experienced it myself. I have been doing military/space designs for major USA & Europe military projects, through ITAR, and never had an issue with SW and security. It has been in the contracts that we use SolidWorks from Dassault. In some cases, they prefer it.
I know it takes time for the data to come through. But, IMO I can't see how the data can be accurate. I have seen CAD software purchased from a VAR, but the info is not translated back to the manufacturer. I have checked it with SW and Autodesk.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

From cadcamnet.com these are the commercial seats sold each quarter. These numbers come from the venders themselves.

http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06aug24adsk04largeuv9.jpg

Security issue again....I think I pointed out that Autodesk had more jobs for chinese programmers than Solidworks did....wait.... Solidworks doesn't list any jobs in Asia. They have some development in the UK and in other parts of Europe and they use GSSL in India for some of the add-ins....the rest is here in the states. Autodesk on the other hand:

http://autodesk.recruitmax.com/ENG/candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=JobList&szFormat=search
http://autodesk.recruitmax.com/ENG/candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=JobList&szFormat=search

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have noticed that a relationship between job postings and installed seats is repeatedly brought up.

There is no relationship, we recently posted a job listing solidworks as an attempt to determine if we would have to train employees ourselves.

If noone applies with solidworks experience then that means we will have to train which means extra expense. We may not buy solidworks based on that.

Hence, 1 job listing = 0 installed seats.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I would not pass SolidWorks based on that.
You should see demo's of each CAD software and pick what is best for your company.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

bpeirson...thats true....but someone could equally post a  job about Inventor for the same reason. Theres no reason to say that this reason applies more to Solidworks than it does Iventor or Solidedge.

I shouldn't say that jobs indicates seats out there. You can't tell that. Just that there are more Swx jobs than IV jobs and thus you can conclude that there is more Solidworks being used than IV by that saem ratio. Maybe Autodesk is shipping more IV out there than Swx...but it doesn't appear that its being used more. Wonder how many active MDT users are out there?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

According to an article in WorldCAD Access Inventor sales have slipped 60% over the last 4 quarters.    Here is a link:    

http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/

Scroll down and look under the heading “How Will Buzz Reverse the Dip?”

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Security issue again....I think I pointed out that Autodesk had more jobs for chinese programmers than Solidworks did....

The Autodesk jobs posted for China are for mostly marketing and tech support positions, not core function programmers. To the best of my knowledge, Autodesk has never suffered a major breach of security.

On the other hand, the uncompiled source code for SW was stolen and offered for sale by an employee of Geometric Software Solutions, as reported by Businessweek Magazine in 2004.

When I developed add-ons for AutoCAD, I had no need for uncompiled source code to do my work. The presence of SW source code in India clearly indicates outsourcing, a distasteful practice, and one that often delivers sub-standard results. Bills have been introduced into Congress, and will be again, to ban the use of foreign-owned and developed software by US defense contractors. We are simply anticipating that here ...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Its no secret that Autodesk, like most major software companies, maintains field offices overseas, where applications for specific customers are developed. I still see no evidence that Inventor source code resides anywhere outside of the US. There is a great difference between local customer service and outsourcing to India.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Outsourced to India or not, it all comes back to the USA for recheck of code anyway.

Back to Inv 11 vs SW 07 ...
I'll still take SW 07 over Inv anytime, whatever the argument.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Doesn't get much clearer than this......

59135-Prog./SW Eng. 3    Posted 03-Aug-2006
Location:   Shanghai, CN - Pidemco Tower      

 
 
Design, prototype, write, test, and debug source code of AutoCAD features. Require skills:
 

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

You're suggesting that AutoCAD is programmed in China ? I'm sure that the folks in San Rafael would be surprised to hear this ! What is the relevance of local AutoCAD customization to Inventor ?

If you still have any doubt about the presence of SW application source code in India:

http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/grabowski_sourcecode.htm

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I'm not suggesting...its pretty clear from that job posting thats from the Autodesk website that some amount of programming is occuring in China. Perhaps its an add-in or some obscure feature...I don't know. But the job clearly states that its located in Sanghai China and that they are looking someone to program something in Autocad. Search the Autodesk jobs....there are other programming jobs as well for other Autodesk programs like 3d studio max, etc.

And I never said I had doubts that someone in India got a hold of the source code for SolidWorks. People steal things all the time that don't belong to them.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I'll bet Microsoft uses someone within India at some point. Most of us use Windows.
I believe Autodesk also uses someone within India, to some degree. But, I don't care who does. Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.
Anybody here try to design a part using either? IMO, SW is more powerful and more user friendly.
Here at my job I support SW and AutoCAD, but not Inventor.
Here, Inventor is considered an etch-a-sketch compared to SolidWorks, UG or CATIA.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have read references to Microsoft's experiments with Indian outsourcing. As I recall, the results were less than satisfactory, and the practice was abandoned. However, I cannot document this. It was some years ago ...

I HAVE had first-hand experience with drafting work farmed out to a company in Bombay. Virtually all of it had to be reworked in the US, at great expense. It was an embarrassment to the managers who championed this "cost-cutting" measure.

I have never seen a single reference that would indicate that Autodesk has ever outsourced, they have no need to. They are a billion dollar company with deep domestic resources. I have followed their progress since 1985. If they engaged in this questionable practice, I'm certain that competitors would make it known.

And I have witnessed the initial impression that Inventor is a simplistic application, even here, with new users. Remember, Inventor installs in "novice mode", to ease the transition for 2D users. Accessing the advanced features is as simple as activating the toolbars. There you will find features that you will perhaps see in other 3D CAD programs in the future. I enjoy using them today !

Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.

Interesting observation ! I do wish that Autodesk had simply purchased SW, when it was up for sale in 1996. Then all of this confusion would never have been necessary. But at the time, by all accounts, they had no interest in a Parasolid-based modeler, when they already had an ACIS-based product in the works.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I posted a reference that shows their use of outsourced programmers....are you blind? And how is their outsourcing questionable....its fairly common practise. There can be a price to pay and sometimes you get what you pay for but sometimes it works.

And you are quiet arrogant to think us Americans are the only ones capable of creating a quality product.

I'm sure IV has some features that other don't but the door swings both ways and depends o what you get used to. As I've heard...there are still no multi bodies, no configurations, and its missing many of the surfacing features that Solidworks has....not to mention many of the surfacing and curve capabilities that UG and Catia have.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Any chance that we could stop rehashing this tired old argument? Jason is never going to convince Rich and vice versa.

I personaly have learned both SW and IV side by side, completing identical projects on both platforms. I found that inventor was easier to use and got me my desired result quicker. On the otherhand Solidworks was a more robust program and it had features that were able to accomplish specific tasks better than inventor (ie; surfaces and configurations). I chose IV as my software of choice because it suits my logic style better and is better for me. I still love SW as well and would gladly use it if the company I work for used it, but my preference is inventor.

Now, if we are done hijacking this thread for yet another SW vs IV, who is outsourcing to who and why this makes one or the other the antichrist, debate, I for one am through caring. If we are going to get back to the OP's original question of which is better for a company that designs pullies, let us please do so.

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I just wanted to be the 100th reply.bigsmile
SolidWorks 2007 has some very cool stuff. I think it beats the pants off all others.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

WOW, This tread took off!! But it is becoming clearer from replies from those that prefer Inventor do so because it IS the solution to "easier parts". IE those that don't require a lot of 3D surfaces. This makes sense as AutoDesk has its roots in 2D and architural /Civil Drawings. I agree it does those very well!
 If as I do you have complex 3D parts don't even consider Inventor.
 Anyone wish to dispute this? If so you have not used Pro/E or SolidWorks to more than 25% of their abilities.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have observed that the selection of software has become an emotional issue for some, leaving the technical aspects in the background. I have carefully documented most of the points I have attempted to make in this discussion, and made the distinction between fact and opinion. Also, I have refrained from personal attacks or derogatory comments, they are inappropriate on a professional forum.

That being said, I would invite anyone who has yet to use Inventor to make their own comparison, and see if it is suitable to their personal design style, and to the nature of the work that they do. Associating Inventor with AutoCAD can sometimes lead to an inaccurate evaluation, they are two entirely separate products, serving different markets.

And Chris, you beat me to the 100th post, fair and square !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

DeSimulacra,

By saying "don't even consider inventor for complex parts" I think you are over simplifying things but I concur with the intent. You can create an sufficiently complex part in inventor to satisfy most any machinable components requirements. Where inventor fails IMO, is in the surface modeling needed for industrial design and for applications such as automotive and areospace where lofted surfaces are more nessesary. Working in an environment where we outsource our ID work, or it is simple enough that inventor can handle it without resorting to complex surfaces, Inventor does the job that SW could do for less money and a shorter learning curve.

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

inventor has never been sold as industrial design software, but is pretty capable in organic surfaces;

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=4269527

i've learned a lot from this thread;

inventor is #1, SW is #4, according to that Wohlers report
SW outsources to India
autodesk has a programmer in china (maybe)
people can be very defensive about their favorites, all evidence to the contrary !

this has been a great discussion, thank you all !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

In the interest of fairness, I want to share this press release with any and all who are following this thread. It was brought to my attention by an alert co-worker:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/10/HNhclautodesk_1.html

While this is an unfortunate trend, it in no way implies that any Autodesk product is being programmed offshore, simply that they are following a contemporary business practice of sending low-level tasks overseas. This was an open disclosure, not a discrete relationship exposed by a theft of source code.

I amend my previous statement that I had seen no reference to Autodesk outsourcing ANY jobs, clearly they are now doing so. I would hope that their experience with the sub-standard results typical in these situations will discourage any further attempts in this direction !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

True. As I wrote earlier, most software (or part of the code) goes to India. A lot of them also pirate the programs and sell as the real thing.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Why are we still fighting over who and where the software is made!? What possible bearing does this have on the merits of the software itself? What does outsourcing to India or China have to do with the tools each piece of software has and how they work?

Who cares which program is the most popular, can't you tell us why one is better without resorting to dredging up the statistics about seat counts?

Can we please relegate these arguments to a thread that is dedicated to this? I for one, come to this forum to get answers to problems and to perhaps to provide answers to the questions of you folks. It bothers me when these legitimate questions about the performance of a piece of software degenerate into a slugfest over something that should have no bearing on the original post.

Did anyone else notice that the OP has not had anything to say since 12 jul 06?

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Its a world economy and a bit hard not to have some resources in various parts of the world. Our government should step and hold these other countries to our standards so that American resources can compete fairly. Hard to compete with China with they don't have to adhere to our pollution standards.

Even though Autodesk may outsource some work...I'm sure the source code is safe for the most part. Solidworks recently implemented some sort of program that prevents people from copying files without appropriate security (to prevent future theft). No doubt the code theft was by someone who got a hold of code he wasn't suppossed to have.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

David,
 While I don't agree with everyone, there have been many good points made on all sides and none have got in a flame war. I do think this has in general been a good thread for someone who is looking to buy CAD software. Even if the "OP" isn't talking.
 Also you are right, ouch , I did not state it correctly when I said "don't even consider" So trying to be fair I will restate that if you are looking for software to do complex parts or assemblies there are several CAD packages that because of the extra tools do a much better job and do the job faster. I'm using Inventor now and though it is slower on complex parts none are faster on simpler parts. In this shop it can do all the design we have yet done. In shops where I have previously worked (2nd / 3rd tier Automotive) it would not be feasible to use Inventor.


Thanks
Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I may have been on my soapbox... but my point is that this theme seems to come up everytime there is a question about the merits of a particular piece of software. I have no problem with people expressing their opinions about the merits of the individual programs even if it is just to say that they think that one is the pinnicle of perfection and the other is so much horse shat. I think that even blunt opinions can have value to a prospective buyer. But the degerneration into discussions about who is giving software away and who is hiring children in africa to write help menus just helps to polerize everyone into groups that like one COMPANY better and doesn't help someone determine which product is better for their application. People may not like a program very much but it may just be the most cost effective and useful for their company.

This is my last rant in this thread...I promise...

No really, I really mean it this time...

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I have observed that software selection in large corporations is often done with political motivations, rather than a true evaluation of the application, and the vendor. However, I would argue that the source of the software, who makes it, and where, is as relevant to this choice, as it would be for any other engineering acquisition. No experienced engineer would spec a component without researching the source, for crucial issues such as future availability and support, hidden costs, and industry acceptance.

I would encourage anyone involved in this decision-making process to gather as much information as possible, from reliable sources, in addition to testing the software with real, in-house requirements. If possible, engage the services of an experienced user, to demonstrate the features that YOU find important. Don't rely on a VAR for this, their job is to sell you THEIR software, and your needs may differ.

There have been a number of disturbing misstatements about Inventor in this thread, regarding the alleged absence of features that any real user of the program KNOWS are there, and have been for some time. This is unfair to anyone trying to make an informed choice. Its one thing to express a preference for a particular feature in a favorite application, but claiming that it is exclusive to that program, without confirmation, can be misleading. These myths tend to take on a life of their own !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

SolidWorks here is slowly taking over the Inventor seats mainly because it is easier/more efficiant to translate CAD file between ACAD/PROE/CATIA and our vendors. Inventor may work fine for smaller companies.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Ok here is a good one for anyone who is considering CAD software, lets list what is a known feature that is lacking. Everyone knows that Inventor has very poor surfacing software. But Today Tops All I Have Heard. Our IT manager came to me and said he needed a reader for a field person to read AutoDESK type files (.dwg mainly with some .dxf)I recommended the Autodesk .DWF viewer. HaHaHa never used personally to opening anything but a .DWF file. IT WILL NOT OPEN A .DWG OR...? So I gave him the SolidWorks viewer which will open AutoDESK files. Talk about egg on the face( not me AutoDESK)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

DWF is Autodesk's equivalent of an Adobe PDF.  It's not the same as a DWG.  Autodesk's viewer for DWG & DXF files is called DWG TrueView.  These DWg/DXF & DWF file types serve different purposes in the Autodesk universe, hence different viewers.  And now you know.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I think he's compareing it to eDrawings which views published edrawing files (ePrt,eAsm,eDrw) as well as native Solidworks files and also DWG and DXF files.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Everyone knows that Inventor has very poor surfacing software.

This is the kind of misinformation that I referred to in my post above, as it implies that creating organic shapes is somehow difficult or impossible with Inventor, or that the results are somehow inferior. Many IV users, including myself, would disagree. As with any CAD software feature, it is necessary to learn the specific protocols.

And as xgrigorix pointed out, the free DWF viewer is intended for opening DWF files only. There would be no reason to assume that it duplicates the function of DWG TrueView, which includes the DWF viewer.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Can you parametrically constrain the surfaces in Inventor?  To what degree?  I ask because it is an important feature of the high end packages out there to have such control.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

To prevent misinformation here is exactily (I hope)what the different viewers will do.

e drawings viewer:
eDrawings Viewer (one download, free)allows convenient viewing of native AutoCAD ® files (DWG and DXF™) and native SolidWorks® parts, assemblies, and drawings. The eDrawings Viewer is intended primarily for people who do not use CAD software and thus do not need to publish eDrawings files themselves. {Partially from eDrawings site}
 
AutoDESK;
 Download the .dwf viewer AND trueview(2 downloads total, free), but they STILL will not read native Inventor files. (no it will not publish either).

"Can you parametrically constrain the surfaces in Inventor?  To what degree? I ask because it is an important feature of the high end packages out there to have such control."
 The short and truest answer is no. Remember I'm using Inventor and like it for "simpler tasks" but it takes longer to use the protocols (work arounds) that I have to use to do the slightly Parametric features. It links to tables fairly well (again with certain protocols <per AutoDESK>) and I commonly use this feature to replace true associative parts.
 I may be wrong but I don't believe you can do associations between 3D surfaces in assemblies? If wrong pls. explain to ewh and me. I do know you can't do complex 3D surfaces in V10 though V11 has a little more control.

Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

A quote from the tenlinks article posted above:

Prior to SolidWorks, we used AutoCAD® Inventor®, which required so many upgrades that the cost of constantly re-training our engineering staff was unrealistic.

This is one man's opinion, and a misleading one. I have not witnessed the need for "retraining" with each new release of Inventor, the user interface has remained consistent throughout. There has been no major disruption to users, as the article implies.

This is a link to the Wikipedia article on Inventor, which identifies it as "the #1 selling 3D parametric solid modelling package", and provides a full history of release dates. I would consider Wikipedia a reasonably independent source of information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk_Inventor

For the sake of comparison, here is a link to the Wikipedia article on SolidWorks, which calls attention to the "limited" parametric approach utilized by SW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidworks

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

3
i use both

both work equally well

a good engineer is pretty useful too the software doesnt do the job

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

If I click on my user info (ctopher) it shows I do not have any replies in this Inventor forum. Weird.
Any relation to how Inventor seats are counted? (just kidding)

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich942: I would be careful about using Wikipedia as a source in arguments. This is on the ABOUT: page~

"Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."

Wikipedia just regurgitates facts submitted by users.

To quote

http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/1395/wise-words-on-wikipedia

"Anyone can make changes to entries; therefore, credibility is not maintained. I tell my students that Wikipedia is best used as a place to jump-start their research for information or ideas, and that they are to find credible sources to substantiate their ideas; Wikipedia is not dependable as a sole voice of authority. While I allow the website to appear on my students’ reference page, the source does not count as one of the required sources."

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich, these Wikipedias are no doubt maintained by Solidworks and Inventor personnel and resellers and a few diehard users. Its hardly independent and unbiased as anyone can write what they want. I could create a "JasonCAD" page and list it as the number 1 selling 3d program.....I could also edit the Solidworks page to say the same thing. (Maybe I should change the Inventor page to say "Number 2 flowerface)

And what do you mean "limited"...I don't it showing much except a couple of pictures illustrating the concept of sketches and extrude features with parametric dimensions.....does Inventor do this differently?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I would be careful about using Wikipedia as a source in arguments.

No argument, just a populist forum that confirms already established facts. If anyone disagrees with the content, they are free to edit the page. These are both well-written and detailed articles, with a long history of contributors.

If you read this thread carefully, you will see that in nearly every case, disagreement has been expressed by attempting to discredit the source.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote:

"Its hardly independent and unbiased as anyone can write what they want."

isn't that what "independent and unbiased" means ?

one point that has been missed here. a SW user trying to use IV with SW experience only will be frustrated and get poor results. and miss some of the best features of IV!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

True. The same the other way around.
"... a IV user trying to use SW with IV experience only will be frustrated and get poor results. and miss some of the basic features of SW!"

It comes down to how competent the user is, how good the hardware is, schooling/training, and experience.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Also depends on what you're doing...no doubt that IV probably has areas where it does things better and vice versa. If all you do is sheetmetal...you may pick the program that does this best regardless of the rest. One may be way better with large assemblies but the point is moot if you never have to create an assembly over 5 parts.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Exactly Jason, to suggest otherwise shows a basic lack of understanding about what all systems can do, although the original poster was fairly specific about their requirements, but that seems to have got lost over time.

To suggest numbers sold is a true indication is also laughable, I would guess Mc Donalds sell more burgers in the world than anyone else, how many people think they are the best burgers in the world?

Still this post is becoming increasingly funny as the allegations get wilder are more far fetched and less well informed.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

This is for those readers who are looking for guidance on buying low to mid-range CAD software for the first time. First you must decide on 2D or 3D. Almost all companies are now going 3D. The reasons for this are many but that is another subject. The rest of this post pertains to 3D.
  The CAD companies, especially the larger ones have a huge stake in your selection of software. Over the years you are agreeing to pay tens of thousands for a single seat.(a). As all CAD Professionals know VAR’s will show you a really nice Dog & pony show to hook you. Once they have you hooked it is hard to change.
  If you really want a true yardstick to measure by first decide which software packages have the minimum features you require. If you have a major customer with a particular CAD package that may be a major influence on your choices (importation is always a compromise). Make sure the CAD packages you select are mature and stable unless you are not worried your archive of files (anyone not worried?). Now pare down to 2 or 3 packages. Contact the VARs that you think come closest to having the support and CAD software(s) you need. Then request a demo of their software at your plant site. Let them know you will want to model a product you are using so you can evaluate the effectiveness of their software. Most important tell them you will give them the specs. when they arrive on site.  The last statement is especially important because they don’t have hours/days to create the show. If you need to have special features (IE; family tables, association between features/parts, motion, surfaces, reverse engineering, importation of files, use with CAM,….) be sure to let them know you will want a demo of that also. This is so the rep.(s) they send will have knowledge of those features. Have the rep show you the strengths of his product, he will show you things you may not have considered. Last be careful about add-ons, be sure what you see is what you are paying for.
  Some might say that a lot depends on the quality of the rep. and I agree wholeheartedly. If they send you a low quality rep., steer away from that VAR, they will not give you the support you need. On new software I would go with a slightly lesser CAD and have a good VAR any day.

VAR = value added reseller, this is probably your pool of knowledge and the people you will call in a sweat when you have an urgent question.
(a) This is a good article for those smaller shops/individuals “Low”? end CAD Also it has a very good statement about Inventor seat numbers. http://cadinsider.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/09/alibre_flies_ha.html

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Those are old...Autodesks 2006 numbers are really for 2005.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I think I will design my own 3D CAD program to end this thread.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

ctopher do you really want this thread to end? Its been fun reading rich942's long rambling posts about how great Inventor is compared to everything else. I laughed more at his posts than when I watch the comedy channel. Sorry Rich nothing personal its been fun debating with you!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

It is fun.
But, I feel it is mostly about opinions than facts.
I also feel some of the articles from the links are based on opinions.
So, my opinion ... I've seen/used both, I will continue to use SW over Autodesk. (except for Arch/Civil 2D dwgs).

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote:

Its been fun reading rich942's long rambling posts about how great Inventor is compared to everything else.

For the sake of accuracy, I checked and found that none of my posts in this thread exceeded 20 lines, excluding quotes and links, hardly "rambling". And if you believe that my point was to promote Inventor as the best choice for all, then you haven't really read my posts very carefully.

My concern is more for the barrage of misinformation and opinionated speculation about Autodesk and Inventor, and the promotion of Solidworks as a vastly superior product, when the market analysis says otherwise. If I have encouraged even one reader of this thread to make a fair, side-by-side comparison of IV and SW, then it has been worth the time taken to respond.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Ok Rich. I think we agree to disagree. Its been a hoot debating with you!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

"It is fun.
But, I feel it is mostly about opinions than facts.
I also feel some of the articles from the links are based on opinions.
So, my opinion ... I've seen/used both, I will continue to use SW over Autodesk. (except for Arch/Civil 2D dwgs)."

Ctopher probably the best, nearest "the" truth post yet. Star fer ya.

Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

This thread isn't locked yet?!?!

upside down

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

It's the only thing keeping this forum alive...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Thanks Mark.
I just saw the SolidWorks 2007 rollout today. There are some new features that are very nice, especially with surfaces, animation, sheetmetal & photo realistic images.
Inventor has a lot of catching up to do.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

If I had a dollar for every time inventor has sent an error report to autodesk in the past two days id be quite happy with my earnings.

Having used inventor since version 8 I was over the moon when they rolled  iassemblies out problem is it doesnt quite work and I was hoping it would compete with configurations in solidworks

This was the only reason I held a hope out for inventor 11 but boy am I drained by the last two days of producing or trying to produce drawings with it which in a lot of companies is still what gets things made L.O.L

The inventor tech support guy came round and had a full blown argument with me that i was using the software wrong
and needed training

After showing him what i wanted to do he suggested a workaround for a problem that autodesk is advertising their product as capable of doing and that i had pointed out doesnt work as it should
 
PROE COULD DO easily
SOLIDWORKS COULD DO easily
CATIA COULD DO
UGS COULD DO

for crying out having used the above systems and proved it seemed quite plainly that i knew what i was doing and the Inventor software couldnt do what even the tech support guy was asking it to and work as advertised

i want to use model dimension in my drawings yes even from iparts autodesks solution copy the part drawing and alter it
you cant use model dimensions from an ipart factory part its a dumb solid


ive got to admit Autodesk does produce good drawings but the
problem for me was getting the models to a stage where i can do adrawing

after two days of pulling out hair being told im doing it wrong bytech support then proving the guy wrong till he cameup with a fix yes im BASHING INVENTOR

IM NO LONGER AN INVENTOR FAN the product drove me over the edge

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Would that be to ... SolidEdge?
tongue

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

no im not gonna beat on a product ive never used SE

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I know, I was kidding. I've used it a little. It's actually pretty good.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

G1DESIGN, I HEAR YOUR PAIN “We thought about it for a long time. ... Endeavor to persevere,” Lone Watie says. “And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union(insert Inventor for Union).”
 I may offer my opinion a) Switch to latest - greatest - newest version ONLY when forced to. Wait for the patches. b) Don't use Inventors Content Center as they have it set up, instead create your part and "save-as" in your working directory.I do this even for bolted connections, because Inventor typically has problems with these type of parts (iparts, content parts...) Of course these may not be viaible options.
 I am not a big fan of Inventor but since the company let me spec. my system I have had almost NO error messages, look at your hardware.
 Best of all tell mgmt. that you need to get SW or Pro/E if you are doing complex parts/assy's. Both do a better job importing AutoCAD dwgs than Inventor anyway.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

cookieman, nice link. Thank you.
I can pick it apart, but won't.
It does have some nice features, but seeing it and SolidWorks, I prefer SW. I wouldn't mind having Inv at home.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Talk about marketing spin....I'll pick it apart...because someone needs to (And you IV users are welcome to pick apart any Solidworks marketing spin you find).

11 reasons IV is the best choice for Autocad:

1. Functional design:
The only thing listed here that Solidworks doesn't have is the Component Generator and some of the Engineering calculation tools. Tubing/Piping, Cable/Harness, Frame Generator, and FEA/Motion Solidworks has.

2. Drawing Creation:
Gee...they make it sound as if IV is the only program that Acad user can use. And its statement "Inventor has long been the best choice for our AutoCAD customers by leveraging a familiar look and feel with Layers" is laughable when they just recently added layers not too long ago. Solidworks has had them for years. The rest is pure marketing as Solidworks can create sectioned detailed Isometric views. And Solidworks can move or copy dimensions between views...always have. And IV is just adding Inspection dimensions and chamfer dimensions, another Solidworks option.

3. DWG Interoperability:
DWG import Wizard.....Solidworks has it....and it has the same options to pick layers, zoom, pan, etc. It incorrectly states that you have to use DwgEditor to import DWG files. The export face/sketch statement is true as you do have to create a drawing in Solidworks to export.

4. Feature Generator and 3d grips
The feature generator sounds like a bunch of pre-defined library features in Solidworks. You can even setup the "Length, Width, etc." The 3d grips sound cool....Solidworks has an often hidden tool called "Move/Size feature" which sounds similar....its an older tool and may be more limited though.

5. Supplier Content Center Can we say 3d Content Central? Its a good idea...thanks Solidworks!!!!

6. Familar tools for Autocad users Layers and Styles.....Solidworks has them, though they don't sound as extensive as the Inventor versions. I'd give this to IV if these features are important to you.

7. Photo-realistic Rendernig and Animation
Come on, I thought this was "reasons IV is better for Acad users"? Every cad program out there worth its salt has these features. Someone with experience in both Swx and IV want to chime in how Autodesk does this so much better for Acad users?

8. Bill of materials management
Ahh...what? Again...acting like no one but Autodesk brings you this ability. Everything listed here works the same in Solidworks and most other 3d cad programs.

9. Vault for cad management
I don't know enough about vault to comment. PDM/Works handles Autocad and Office documents which Autodesk lists as a Vault advantage.

10. Collaborate with dwf
Biggest advantage I see to dwf is the ability to include a group of file in one dwf file. One could easily counter that the person on the other end doesn't even need to install eDrawings to view it. And only the person publishing the file needs eDrawing Pro for the expanded capabilities of markup, moving, sectioning. And as for having it all in one file......zip works pretty good.

11. Autodesk Manufacturing community
Well...can't argue with the fact that Autodesk has the largest online community of Acad users.....duh!!! Solidworks has many of the same online resources and I think you'll find that its users are just as active with helping people....and many are Autocad users as well.
------


Anyway...pretty weak list....I can think of other things that Inventor does better that should have been listed as most of these weren't unique to Inventor.....and several aren't tools that Autocad users would know anything about anyway. Fact is, no matter which 3d cad program an Autocad user moves, he/she will have to forgot what they know about Autocad.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Well said Gildashard. A star.
About Vault, it works very similar to PDMWorks.
Funny, the first paragraph of Inv says it is the best 3D software for ACAD users. Of course it is! Only hard core ACAD users would promote themselves to Inv. Users from other 3D CAD would not switch to Inv unless they had to, like a job change.
Inventor is a pretty good tool, but not my first choice.
Everyday I switch between ACAD and SolidWorks, ACAD makes my days seem longer.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Nice and without any emotion or hype!! Already gave a star, can't give another. Now does anyone want to take SW list of new features and compare to Inv?

Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I think the statement by Autodesk that Inventor is best for ACAD users is because they realize they fell behind when Solidworks was promoting how easy it was for ACAD users to learn Solidworks in years past. Solidworks really went after getting ACAD users to switch from 2d to 3d. SW used phrases in their marketing like saying how this part of the software is like ACAD in this respect or that respect to help ease the transition.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I’ve seen & read similar articles from Autodesk. It’s all market b***sht and scare-mongering.

Reason # 2 Drawing Creation….
“At the end of the day almost all our users need to create some kind of drawing”. They fail to mention all their users can’t dimension an isometric view.

Eddy

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Users? ... you mean "CAD Operators"?
lol

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

cookieman, I had not seen this document, it offers a lot of insight for those who have not yet experienced Inventor.

These features are at a level of sophistication far beyond the competition, and sketch-free modeling has been very popular here among engineers and new users. And we have found Vault to be a truly scalable PLM solution, even our non-CAD team members are using it to share and archive documents. Inventor is changing the way that we think about design, now the tool serves us, instead of the opposite.

As we transition to IV, even the former Pro/E users are coming around. The previous SW users are just delighted to keep a session open all day without crashing, and learning new techniques every day with all of that extra time !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Quote (rich942):

The previous SW users are just delighted to keep a session open all day without crashing, and learning new techniques every day with all of that extra time!
As I wrote before in various threads, it's not SolidWorks crashing, it's setup errors, hardware/software configurations and user error. If I was not capable of setting up my machine correctly and that made my SW crash all the time, I would be frustrated also ... and move on to something like Inv.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich...your Inventor experience is truly unique in the world of Inventor users. There are plenty of crashing and software horror stories abound.

And this document offers nothing to people who haven't experienced Inventor....there's no substance at all. I think you're a user but you sound like you're in sales and marketing....sure you don't work for a var or Autodesk?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

It has never been my intention to convince any current 3D CAD software user that they made a poor choice, everyone here, and elsewhere, is entitled to believe whatever pleases them. Just to present a fair and balanced source for real-world information about Inventor, among posts that frequently indicate a deep-seated emotional dislike for Autodesk and their products.

My concern is for the potential new users, poised to recommend a software selection to their employers. They deserve to make their choice free of the influence of misinformation and distortion of facts.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

This thread is still going strong eh? I think the SW guys have the IVers out numbered and hittng hard. Hehe.

Jasons account of IV’s 11 highlights is pretty accurate IMHO. I’ll do some addendums. Not meant to take away from what Jason took the time to say, but add to them.

1.    functional design is just a marketing term they are using to instill an impression of superiority. There’s no magic functional design wand. The only thing they have SW doesn’t is an add-on they bought from mechsoft. Fill in a bunch of numbers and it will draw a shaft or gear or something else. Not sure how many use it. I bet most people use vendor models downloaded using PartStream. Hehe.

2.    IV drawing environment was a pleasure to use. I liked making prints in IV more than making models. With SW it’s the opposite, models are a pleasure and drawing a pain. I had plenty of models that wouldn’t section in IV. IV dwg export is better than SW. SW07 made big improvements though.

3.    The only difference in IV and SW I see is IV could “Select” entities in the preview window. SW is much better for importing acad “geometry”. SW will apply a Fuzz to endpoints and auto add constraints. 07’s “fully define sketch” is outstanding. SW is not good for importing a whole print with text and blocks and Acads special entity types like tables. Does anyone import that stuff?

4.    Grips are pretty cool for concept messing around stuff. They are bad to use on models because they delete equations which IVer’s use a lot. SW has some OK tools for making real models “stretchy”. “override dims on drag” allows sketch to be drug and dims update. Equations actually update to the drag size. And the new spinwheel is real cool for dimensionally stretching a sketch. I thought feature generator was kind of a toy. You can do the same thing with library parts.

5.    IV’s CC is pitiful right now. I swear, some of the model I’ve seen makes me believe Adsk paid some Indian business to create cheap bare bones representations. Time will tell if Vendors will support it.

6.    One thing that gets me about Acad… it been quite dormant. There are so many obvious tools that took them decades to implement. With in a day of drawing I could tink of a hundered things acad could add. Like, why doesn’t Acad have a dimension tool that knows what kind of dim to add based on picks? But instead they so often re-write existing functions that end up being 2 steps forward and 1 back. Now that I’ve seen SW, I think, wow, that’s ingenious. Makes me think of all the people I’ve run into that said Cadkey was superior to acad. And maybe they were right. And if Adsk didn’t give away acad, crushing Cadkey, I’d have a better 2d cad.

7.    IV rendering is… like Technicolor. It is vibrant and gleams with luster. I would not call it photo-realistic, you could call it Phony-realistic, hehe. You know,realer than real. But it is very pleasing to look at. It really makes you say wow. Do people REALLY need rendering? It’s fun, but I can’t imagine contracts are actually won because of rendering differences. Maybe, society is so shallow these days.

8.    I did a few boms with r10. it was painful. I think they had the concept right though. I haven’t use SW bom yet. After using IV, I’m scared too.

9.    From what I’ve read, you need PHD in computer science to use vault.

10.    If SW didn’t have edrawing, IV wouldn’t have dwf. Well, they would, but it would still be what it was originally created for… view acad files on the web. IV tries to add that same phony-relistic quality to DWF’s. if viewed just right it’s beautiful. But many other view angles are darkly shaded. I sent a dwf to customer once. He said it was like looking at the dark side of the moon. He could only see half of it. Edrawing may look cartoonish, but you can see everything. You know, medical text books are filled with hand drawn “cartoons” that convey information much better than a picture. I always send my Edrawings to the end customer as .exe files. Adsk states you have to have edrawing pro to do something, but what they don’t say is that SW Pro (which you get edraw pro) is pretty much the standard version, costing LESS than IVS and doesn’t mention that you have to  pay extra for measuring and markups with dwf, which comes std in edrawings.

11.    I wish SW would redesign it’s board so it would draw more activity. It’s the only SW forum with instant upload which is sooo good for getting problems solved. Adsk.com is very active, many IV programmers stop in there too. Questions are immediately answered. Unless you’re a diemaker. Even Adsk knows diemakers shouldn’t use IV.

I wasn’t going to respond to this thread again, but when I saw that brochure FILLED with SW sucks, IV is great… it pissed me off. What children Adsk have become promoting themselves with smear tactics.  

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Diemaker1,
Very good, a star!
By the way, I have used SolidWorks PhotoWorks to win a major USAF contract through L-M. A great tool!

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich doesn't the fact that there are so many of us "deep-seated emotional dislike for Autodesk and their products" folks out there say something about Autodesk. I think that is important information for any potential buyer. I wonder how we got to be that way? Hum?

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Opps ..See the articles on Wildfire

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I wasn’t going to respond to this thread again, but when I saw that brochure FILLED with SW sucks, IV is great… it pissed me off.

I searched this PDF again carefully, and found no such language. just because you don't agree is no reason to accuse autodesk of "smear tactics". are they not entitled to publish comparisons, as other do ?

I have noticed that most of the criticisms of IV here start with, "I bet", I feel", or "I heard", hardly the same as published reports from industry sources. c'mon guys, keep it professional, a bit less anger and spite, and more facts !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

A star for cookieman ! So much has been posted here by SW users who have clearly never seen or used Inventor, and in many cases have simply repeated comments made by SW VARs and users. All is fair in love and software sales, I suppose, but I would hope that any serious readers of this thread, who are in the process of choosing between IV and SW, will have the wisdom to contact their local Autodesk VAR, and get an in-house demo, utilizing their own requirements. Only then can you make an informed decision as to which program best fulfills your particular needs.

And again, as I have posted previously, look closely into the organizations behind the various products, this has everything to do with their relative merits !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

I think anyone seriously looking at 3D CAD software, should see demo's for SolidWorks, Inventor, SolidEdge, ProE, UGS and CATIA. (not in that order).
Not just SolidWorks and Inventor.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007


QUESTION? How many people really use Inventor?? The post on a bad bug is true. How could it be that it takes that long to find that bad and that dangerous a bug???
 I must be using Inventor wrong, so what do I do so I can change a dim. in .idw?

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

ctopher i hear what you are saying with try as many as you can this is my opinion only

for me it goes like this

solidworks
inventor
solidedge

these compete wth each other,the midstream cad packages, in my experience solidworks comes out tops because i can make it do what iwant with the least work arounds and compares similarily with the way i use the big cad apps i have limited  experience of solidedge but have never heard of anyone slate it

when the inventor tech support asks me what i want to do and then goes to prove me wrong i can pull up 4 different packages that do what i want to without the oh you do it like thisline that seems to be prevalent

after my rant against inventor now im calm im still thinking they just need to catch up andthere may be hope

pro e is very good in fact having used it since version 18 i would whole heartedly say its good for engineers ,engineers are not nescesarily the same as cad guys and enginners tend to get the best out of it ,its an incredible misnomer in that they try to market it as an easy to use tool but once you have mastered it there are few limits to what you can achieve in terms of engineering a product and providing those tools in one hit (albeit an expensive hit)

i have always used pro and think its an excellent tool in fact its the only software i would give up my own hard earned cash for use at home if i had to!!! unfortunately high previous pricing and bad reputation creates a fear factor associated with it

catia and ug, as a contractor ive used both in anger usually cars and planes catia is the grown up version of solidworks and ug is the development of ideas both mind blowing in what you can do with them and theres not much you cant do on a systems or enginnering perspective

pro e i would liketo lump in with catia and ug but i cant due to its unique and sometimes baffling approach to new users

however the majority of companies dont do planes and dont do cars and proE just some times does too much that companies dont want to or have a use for it to do

therefore the midrange cad packages are more suitable and here to stay and for that selection based on results is what needs to be considered
 

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Rich942 IVE USED INVENTOR IVE USED SW

what i think may be the problem as a SW user is that SW is easier to use

or is it that im so used to solidworks i expect inventor to work the same

maybe if inventor users spent time on solidworks they may think its easier/harder to get on with

I started on pro e harder to use than either ? no

more capable without a doubt

ill tell you what as i used to do some solidworks demos for VARs

heres how it works

1.the salesguy says to demo guy just do some examples of the product company x makes into a whizz bang flawless knock your pants of our software does everyting sales pitch
2.salesguy yep sell the software avoiding any but what if questions
3.company x goes wow thats great your software does everything we want it to because you said it does(and you hadaproduct that looks just like we make its obvious other people in our industry areusing it and its not a researched pre prepared presentation.

Now here i am with an autodesk sales guy and his whizzo demo guy selling me the features of his new IV11 sat the other side of a table trying to get us up from 6 to 30 seats, not really a good move considering for the past two months ive picked and prodded the flaws home to their own tech support guys.

The other side of the table have the operations director to my left whos had me demo the SW pro E and IV11 and the way it fits into our company andwhichpipeline is best to achieve our goals

the outcome of said meeting was kind of a middle east affair in that it descended to all out your wrong on all fronts and that never came from me but the rather embarrased sales rep
trying to be honourably defensive
not a good thing making an enemy of the potential purchaser

unfairly i was able to pick up on flaws that maybe wthout experience and certainly a lot of bias most folks new to picking a 3d package wouldnt have

Honest john doesnt exist especially in software sales so my advice is try them all and see which produces best for your company

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Very good advice G1design a star for you.

I would also mention that if you work in a niche market it is worth looking outside the big players, one of the reasons they are so big is they appeal to the masses because they are so general, that does not mean they are the best at specific tasks.

Also what do customers and suppliers use, do you need to keep models smart?

It is much easier to make an informed judgement if you have experience in 3D, whilst we all probably believe “my bed is the most comfortable” you do know what causes problems, to the best of my knowledge no sales guy has ever said our system is rubbish at that. If you just see a demo and have no 3D experience ALL the systems with their wizzo presentations look great and the chances are you do not even know the questions to ask let alone what to make of the answers.

Still G1design you do seem to be going away from this thread, can we please go back to the childish bickering, it is much more amusing.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

are you serious ? do you really not understand the difference between outsourcing and offshore facilities ? have someone explain it to you.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Mostly this is respone to Rich who says they use Autodesk software cause its all developed in the USA. Software developed outside the USA is a security issue sccording to him.

YOu're right though, I should have stated it as offshore programmers rather than outsourcing.

Of course this statement firmly plants their company policy, which is probably true fir many companies now:

Autodesk CEO Carol Bartz stated that the salaries of Indian employees are about 15% or 20% of U.S. salaries, with China being even a little less. She added, "When you can get great talent at 20% of the costs, it isn't about waving the American flag. It's about doing what's right to have a good company."

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

The bulk if IVs programming is probably done there, much like the bulk of Solidworks is done in Massachusetts. Side projects tend to get done using offshore programmers.

Sometimes in the case of acquisitions, (Like PDMWorks Enterprise), the programmers are in another country, in this case Scandinavia.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

the fact remains that the source code for SW was stolen from GSS in India. that's where the programming is being done for purely economic reasons and no regard for security.

time to stop beating a dead horse...

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Who cares where the code is generated and how it got here. SW is still the better product. Security issues....I don't really think so at least not in my field.

Why is my handle 65Roses?
Please visit http://www.cff.org/aboutCFFoundation/About65Roses/ to learn why!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

You're beating the dead horse by lying and saying that Solidworks is being progammed in India. I know for a fact that the core program is done mostly in the states, specifically Massachusetts, with Cosmos done in California. And some in the UK. The problem is GSS had access to the source for whatever reason, perhaps a lack of security on Swx part. Perhaps it was for some of their add-ins, perhaps they help with some coding elsewhere per some contract.

Anyway, Swx has since put a system in place that only allows the necessary people have access to whats needed and tracks it as a means to deter someone stealing it again.

The fact is, near anything can be stolen. We have security here where I work but its not impossible for someone to get in and steal important information. Difficult maybe, but not impossible. And its not uncommon for competitors to plant people to learn what the competition is up to.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

GSSL does some side work, debugging code apparently and some add-ins products......I've said that many times already.

The whole point here is that it was implied that Autodesk does not use Indian or Chinese programmers while Solidworks does and thus the use of SolidWorks is a security risk for companies in the US. The facts show that both companies use offshore programmers with Autodesk seemingly using more offshore programmers in both India and China and even stating it to the public in one of the article links posted above. Perhaps their hold on the source for their products is better than SolidWorks was.....perhaps Solidworks was just unlucky.....or perhaps their security at the time was too lax.....we'll probably never know for sure.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Can anyone still recognize this horse after all the repeated beatings? I'm not even sure the glue factory will take it anymore, such a waste of a good dead horse....

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Anyone here seen the movie "Big Trouble"?  This thread is starting to remind me of the sports radio program about the Gators.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

cookieman, its time to move on ! SW users will always believe exactly what the VARs tell them, despite reliable published evidence to the contrary. Just enjoy the advantages of Inventor, and rejoice that you will never have another "Customer Experience" !

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Hey I thought this thread was dead. I tried to be polite before, now however forget every thing said, hear the truth (cause I said so;=). The honest truth to the original question is unless you are doing simple geometry "ONLY" forget Inventor. I'm using it for over a year now and it is nowhere near as powerful as Pro or SW, PERIOD! Yes I can do many of the same things but because of the lack of features it takes longer. Stability?? not in complex models or assemblies, I'm constantly having to go back and re trim sketches because of the lack of software power.
 Simple and effective standard of proof, go look at each recent release of Inv. and watch AutoDESK brag about their new features, almost all of which have been on the other CAD packages for YEARS. Proof Positive, don't believe me go look.
 A few Examples of present woes.
>Migrate files, ONLY necessary in Inventor. 2 Concurrent seats - not happening in Inventor. When you start to upgrade you are just down, your bad luck if a rush job comes in.
>Remove extra solids with a click NOT in Inventor
>Do anything beyond very simple surfaces NOT in Inventor.
>Extend an extrusion beyond a surface by set amount Not ...
 Lets get real, only users who have an agenda or never truly learned other softwares will state they like Inventor over other CAD programs. Yes Inventor is a GOOD program, if this was 2000 it would be a great program.
 As far as Vault goes we are still trying to get it up and running correctly (Easy to set up a single seat I will say). Yup its free but support is not and your VAR will really plug to come and set it up for a 4 figure fee. Never used PDMworks so no help there.
 Oh yea all you SW or PRO fans give me a star for this nonsense I've wrote so this post will look like it means something really important.
 Bah Humbug! Shoot Inventor....., I mean this Horse,  It's almost Dead!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Reliable published evidence....where....from Autodesk? I've yet to see to many former Swx users who are happy with IV......maybe they are content if they aren't doing anything too complicated.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

i believe he was referring to the Business Week Magazine and Boston Business Journal articles that exposed the outsourcing of SW to India. I don't think either one of those publications belongs to autodesk, but you never know!

DeSimulacra, common sense tells you that if IV were really as limited and underdeveloped as you suggest, their install base would not be 600,000 and growing! sorry to hear about you difficulties, but help is available....

rich942, thanks for the belly laugh about the "customer experience", i had almost forgotten about that!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Could be Cookieman that it is my inexperience, however I have 30 years in the CAD field and was the first PC user of Pro in Tennessee.  I would also mention I have taught AutoCAD. It is my belief is that many companies, just like the company I'm presently working for, are using Inventor because: #1)It is bundled, no one will argue about the large 2D base AutoDesk enjoys 2)They thought that they would gain some benefit from the transition from 2D AutoCAD to Inventor over another companies 3D pkg. Any Professional will tell you this isn't true.
 As far as help, be glad to answer any questions you have.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

With any software package, test it according to your needs - have your VAR demo the exact application issue you wish to solve.

I like SW, but still believe IV produced "prettier" drawings that were more in-line with published drafting standards (leader lengths, dimension offsets) right out of the box.

I have also found that the SW forums have a lot more content - higher end requests for help/questions.  IMHO, the SW forum users have traditionally been pushing the software to the limits (and unfortunatley finding bugs).  The IV forums have been lower-level (easy) requests.  Does that mean that IV's higher-end functions are simpler than SW's?  Idunno - it's just an observation.

To answer the original question, SW2007 has some pretty nifty functions that would definitely help with pulleys.  I know that your issues could be "automated" to some extent with configurations and design tables in SW along with the Toolbox.

Good luck - please let us know what you personally come up with.

Air cooled, belt fed, gas operated machine gun firing from the open-bolt position

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Dear Folks;

In the interest of giving people the benefit of my own experience using both Solidworks and Inventor I have posted a comparison of my own at:

 http://aaadrafting.com/solidworks_autodesk_inventor.html

I hope that this will help others in their choice of modelling software. I have tried to be objective and point out the flaws of both programs as well as the good points.

My aim is to add to this list on a regular basis and perhaps turn it into a downloadable pdf.

In any case take a look and see if any of this helpful. It's still a little rough at this stage but will be improved on.

I am more than happy to add other peoples suggestions to the list.

Best Regards

Adrian Dunevein
AAA Drafting Services

www.aaadrafting.com
http://home.cogeco.ca/~adunevein/

SW2006 Office Pro. SP4.1

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Adrian,

   Just saw this in your document... "Both Solidworks and Inventor restrict you to only using circles to define detail views. This causes some problems when the detail circle takes up too much drawing space on the parent view. The ability to just drop a leader pointing to where the detail came from would help, but of course, that's not ANSI standard."

This is not true with SolidWorks.  You can create a detail view using any sketch geometry around the area you want show.  Check the help on this.

"Solidworks configurations either part or assembly cannot be used for PDM in situations where it is interfaced with Company BOM control systems which often require one part number per unique part file. These systems cannot handle single part or assembly files with multiple part or assembly numbers within them."

Although I agree its best to model part numbers as separate and distinct files for reasons of reduced complexity, your statement here could be very misleading to someone not in the know.  It could be construed that PDMWorks just wont handle a file that has configurations in it.  This is not true.  It will handle the file just like any other file.  The process for access to and revision of configuration information is a manual one dependent on the user.  The process is much less automatic.  As for compatability with other systems... There is a way to access config information using the SolidWorks/PDMWorks API and custom programming.  Not exactly the words anyone wants to hear, but nonetheless other things become possible and limitations can be eliminated when employing these techniques.  Exactly how they are employed, will be dependent on the system you are passing info to.  Would I want to use PDMWorks in this situation - personally no.  Is it possible - it could very well be.  You also did not mention PDMWorks Enterprise (formerly Conisio).  The data management/PDM tool from SolidWorks may be more constructed to handle the type of situations you mention.  I have never used it, but do know that they advertise MRP/ERP connectivity support, and that they handle/support configurations differently.

Just passing along some info/critique.  Thanks for the comparison.  Its always interesting to see how different companies address the same problems facing users.

Pete

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Adrian,

Good list, but I saw a couple of things you might want to fix:

"The sketch module in Inventor requires more mouse clicks steps than Solidworks sketcher. In Inventor you sketch a line, and click to project the planes and axes you wish to constrain it to. No Midpoint constraint is available. You have to place a point on the middle of a line and constrain to that."
This is not entirely true, You can constrain to a midpoint in inventor there just isn't a dedicated "Midpoint" constraint. Inventor's constraints are based more along the lines of how they apply to GDT constraints not features. For instance, "Coincident" attaches a point to either a line or a point rather than needing a midpoint and an endpoint constraint to do the same thing.

"Solidworks allows you to open the part or assembly from the drawing views and access the part browser. Inventor does not allow you to open the part or assembly from the drawing file itself."
This is false, Inventor allows you to open the part or assembly file of any veiw by RMB on the view and selecting "open".

"Both Solidworks and Inventor restrict you to only using circles to define detail views. This causes some problems when the detail circle takes up too much drawing space on the parent view. The ability to just drop a leader pointing to where the detail came from would help, but of course, that's not ANSI standard."
I believe Inventor 11 allows the use of square detail views I can't confirm this because I do not yet have R11.

Just a few things I noticed.


David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Dear David;

Thank you for your comments. I will make changes to my text.

As for the midpoint issue, you are correct about being able to sketch lines from midpoints in Inventor. My point is that you cannot constrain the midpoint of a line to the origin for example. In Inventor you have to place a work point on the midpoint of a line, then constrain the workpoint coincident to the origin.

As for the open RMB, it does not work in Inventor 7 no matter if I first click select edge, feature or part. I think this must be a difference between Inv 8 and 7. I will note this.

Your Comment about square detail views is interesting, I will see if I can verify it with one of our Inv 11 users here. That would be a useful feature.

Many Thanks

Adrian Dunevein
AAA Drafting Services

www.aaadrafting.com
http://home.cogeco.ca/~adunevein/

SW2006 Office Pro. SP4.1

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Adrian,

Don't select a feature of the view select the view border. If this still doesn't work then you are correct and it is a change from R7.

David

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Few SolidWorks Comments:

File Manipulation
Solidworks added "Pack n Go", Rename, and Copy functionality in Windows Explorer for 2007. This is also part of the revamped SolidWorks Explorer utility.


Drawing Module
As previously mentioned, You can sketch any shape you want for detail views. You have to set the detail view in the property manager to use the profile instead of a circle, it works but its a silly requirement that should be automatic like cropped views.

PDM
PDM/works workgroup does store configuration info and properties and you can search on them. PDM/works Enterprise stores profile cards for each configuration as well. In both cases, all configs are revised together. Workgroup doesn't really have a BOM feature and Enterprise's BOM feature is limited to one configuration for now.

Most other PDMs handle configurations as well, like DB/Works and Matrix. Matrix treats them as separate records.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

They thought that they would gain some benefit from the transition from 2D AutoCAD to Inventor over another companies 3D pkg. Any Professional will tell you this isn't true.

I consider myself an engineering professional, and I can tell you that the cost benefits were considerable, converting our autocad licenses to inventor. when SW starts offering even a small discount to autocad users, maybe it would be more of a contest. our managers, like most, don't care about the quality of the software. they want to know the bottom line.

As far as help, be glad to answer any questions you have.

thanks for the offer, but i'm not having problems with any of the items you listed!

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Adrian,
 Glad you are doing your list. Hope you continue updating it.
 A couple of notes. One, I think the Vault program is free?(see above post by me) correct me if I'm wrong. Two, everyone always mentions that SW can convert to .DWG (among other native formats), to be fair I think you should mention Inventor will not convert to any CAD native formats, many newbies might not catch this.
 Also note that I have listed a few deficiencies in previous posts that have yet to be refuted. If you add to your list please check them to be sure I'm correct.
 

Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Adrian……You fail to mention Isometric views. These can be dimensioned easily in SW but in Inventor I believe you have to cheat and use the same work around that you used in ACAD - place an aligned dimension and manually override the value.

Eddy

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Hey Adrian,
 Hope you don't get any negative posts or see any of the recent posts as negative. I have wanted to do what you have done for a long time, that is start a comparison list. I applaud your effort.
 The only reason I post here is that is gives people who are looking for facts, not hype, a chance to compare software from the eyes of professionals. Even on this thread you have people who are not objective or knowledgeable, but usually they are gently corrected. Continue the good work.

Mark

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

hi to all cad user
im a newbie to solidworks but a mid-advance level to inventor10. i would like to know for all those solidworks user,, how often your system crash for making a 500 parts and above??? (including assembly and sub assembly) how long does it takes to regenerate a whole assembly and sub assembly???

(comparing solidworks to inventor with the same parts and numbers)

tnx
inventorer

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

A 500 part assembly is on the small side....I'd say maybe one crash every week or two with an assembly that size in Solidworks.

Rebuilds times will vary greatly depending on your computer and whether you use top-down modeling.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2007 SP2.0 on WinXP SP2

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Keep going much longer and you'll have to start all over again  with IV2008 (or R12).

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

ahhh tnx buddy it means doesnt matter whether u use IV or solidwrks as long as the execution is concerned. IV & solidworks were all the same

tnx
inventorer

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Can anyone tell me the ammout of users of Inventor to the amount of Solidworks seats are sold in UK?? that me add some light on the subject.

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

Take that back, just noticed MECHMAN50 ok get ya

RE: Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007

something new for pro/e users to consider when choosing a more affordable cad package:

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=FAC226A6-5D7A-4823-853B-9672D16F706A

and yes, there is a great difference between just the promise of import/export and doing it with full integrity. this agreement is a milestone in seamless file exchange, and the kind of thing you can do comfortably when you lead the market, as autodesk does ...

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