Engineering as a tool or a product
Engineering as a tool or a product
(OP)
I am curious to other engineers thoughts on a question nagging me:
Is an engineer's job to find the safest option to construct or repairing OR is it the engineer's job to find the most economical, reliable way of doing the work safely.
Explanation:
I heard the quip- "Anyone can build a house but an engineer can build a house so it just stands"
And personally I feel that is the engineer's job. To work within the regulated guidelines and not to overconstruct but to find economical ways of building without compromising safety.
I see in alot of posts the words, use a factor of X and that will suffice for any conditions, which in effect is applying a safety factor to "cover up" any overlooked details.
I am all for safety but I think the threat of lawsuits and the enormous workloads have been pulling us away from the true meaning of engineering.
Is an engineer's job to find the safest option to construct or repairing OR is it the engineer's job to find the most economical, reliable way of doing the work safely.
Explanation:
I heard the quip- "Anyone can build a house but an engineer can build a house so it just stands"
And personally I feel that is the engineer's job. To work within the regulated guidelines and not to overconstruct but to find economical ways of building without compromising safety.
I see in alot of posts the words, use a factor of X and that will suffice for any conditions, which in effect is applying a safety factor to "cover up" any overlooked details.
I am all for safety but I think the threat of lawsuits and the enormous workloads have been pulling us away from the true meaning of engineering.





RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
A: Don't cross it.
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Make no mistake about it. The litigious climate has changed many engineering decisions, because engineers must ascribe to their standard of care, which is usually not a minimum nor a maximum, but somewhere in between.
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Every analysis problem is an abstraction, i.e., a simplification of the real problem. Therefore, you don't "overlook" details, you simply ignore them to get the problem solved in a reasonable amount of time. This forces you to allow for such ignored details to perturb the solution.
Additionally, not everything you can buy is actually built to specification. Many years ago, and even today, there are counterfeit bolts and other hardware that are substandard. Part of the safety factor goes into accounting for parts and components that are operating below specification.
Finally, the reality of any design problem is that the customer has finite money and time. This limits how much design and analysis you can possibly perform. Every year, however, does bring better computers and, hopefully, faster software, but all that is coupled with more complex designs. The end result is a standoff between what you can ultimately design for safety and what you can practically design for safety.
Every licensed engineer can probably design a structure for California that can withstand a magnitude 9 earthquake. However, it would be too expensive, too ugly, too short, and too untimely for any customer interested in getting a building built to house his business. Therefore, every design is a compromise of time, money, and safety.
TTFN
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Engineering is about striking the right balance. I agree with IRstuff, I would add that in every engineering problem we make assumptions particularly in regard to boundry conditions. Those assumptions are rarely 100% right, a little safety factor is generally wise.
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
I would have thought the biggest problem though (as stated above) is that we never really know exactly what the true boundary conditions/loads etc are, we make our best estimate and then apply a factor for things not just that we've ignored, overlooked or forgotten but also for things we have no way of knowing about.
For me Safety should always be the primary concern, doesn't mean it has to be 100% safe (usually impossible), for reasons given by others and more but that Safety should always be considered and anything that may reduce safety carefully considered.
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
An engineer's job is to meet the minimum level of all the competing requirements, without sacraficing.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
1) You can overdesign because precise, detailed engineering might cost more that the project is worth- particularly on a one-time, small project.
2) You can go into great detail and design with great intricacy on something that might be reproduced numerous times. In this case, the savings in material and construction costs will make up for the more expensive engineering.
3)...
The point is that it all depends on the scenario. I might be able to sink a whole year designing coming up with the nicest paper airplane to ever exist, but who's gonna pay my salary for that?
Ed
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Have you tried Mattel?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Moral: Get someone to engineer the assembly instructions, while you're at it.
TTFN
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, it is twice as big as it needs to be.
Brian
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
Depends on what the customer asks for.
If the customer asks for the safest widget that's what we give him.
If the customer asks for economical/reliable widget we give him that with (unless otherwise stated) what we consider acceptable safety.
This is why the requirement is so important, as my Design Prof taught!
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer were asked to review this mathematical problem. In a high school gym, all the girls in the class were lined up against one wall, and all the boys against the opposite wall. Then, every ten seconds, they walked toward each other until they were half the previous distance apart. The mathematician, physicist, and engineer were asked, " When will the girls and boys meet?"
The mathematician said, " Never."
The physicist said, " In an infinite amount of time."
The engineer said, " Well... in about two minutes, they'll be close enough for all practical purposes."
Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...
RE: Engineering as a tool or a product
A doctor, an engineer and a lawyer were discussing whose profession had been around longest of the three. Appealing to the creation story in the book of Genesis in the Bible, the doctor claimed, "God created Eve from one of Adam's ribs, which is surgery. Therefore my profession predates all others."
The engineer said, "Go back even further to the first chapter and it says that from the chaos God created the heavens and the earth. That is a massive feat of engineering, therefore engineering predates medicine."
Both the doctor and the engineer turn to the lawyer and challenge, "Top that!". After pausing for dramatic effect (as is the wont of lawyers), the lawyer states, "Who do you think created the chaos?"