Women in the workplace...
Women in the workplace...
(OP)
I am the only female engineer in my company. The company itself has approximately 16 employees and 3 owners, we have a female secretary and one of the owner's wife works part time as the Office manager. I have been an employee for 2.5 years and this is my first job out of college.
I have noticed a lot of sexism in my workplace, mostly in the form of inappropriate comments (although they are not usually aimed at me, just stated out loud) and being left out in both business and personal. I totally understand that people are not always invited to things and that is people's choices but to be left out of business meetings and such is appalling. I am also chastised about almost everything constantly and of course no one backs me up for anything because the "boys always stick together". I am wondering if this is happening to other women out there in the engineering field.
I have noticed a lot of sexism in my workplace, mostly in the form of inappropriate comments (although they are not usually aimed at me, just stated out loud) and being left out in both business and personal. I totally understand that people are not always invited to things and that is people's choices but to be left out of business meetings and such is appalling. I am also chastised about almost everything constantly and of course no one backs me up for anything because the "boys always stick together". I am wondering if this is happening to other women out there in the engineering field.





RE: Women in the workplace...
The engineer working for me did have occasional frustrations - but mostly with the female clerical staff who would invite her to luncheons with the girls. She was pretty adamant that she be included as an engineer with the engineers and not be considered just one of the gals. I was too, but this was more a cultural thing with the clerical staff vs. harrassment. There were a few other instances where inappropriate behavior occurred and I did my best to deal with it promptly.
I would urge you first to notify your supervisor about this, even if he is one of the culprits, and suggest that the comments could be construed as a form of harassment, but that for the current case, you would simply appreciate some management of this issue on his part to knock this sort of thing down. If no action is taken, then you either leave or take a next step and warn them in written form that you consider the environment to be in violation of harrassment laws...(am I spelling harrassment right?).
Anything you do may get you into disfavor with the firm, but if you do, you probably don't want to work with that firm anyway.
I would then suggest that you be open to other job opportunities as there ARE places of employment in engineering where this doesn't happen. Being a small firm, there is probably a loose attitude about workplace harassment laws but they are subject to the same liability as a large firm.
RE: Women in the workplace...
I would recommend looking for a new position. There is no excuse for that treatment. You have the benefit of having no reason to feel loyal to your company.
If you do decide to find a new job, I wouldnt recommend stating these issues as the reason you left your last position. I know its wrong, but I imagine it may scare potential employers off by being afraid of a harrassment suit.
Good Luck!
RE: Women in the workplace...
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Women in the workplace...
With being left out of meetings, I've been at my firm for almost 4 years now and I still don't get invited to meetings concerning the company, whether it's projects, progress or what. Sometimes it isn't because you're a woman, some places just have jerks.
I would start looking for another firm. Even if you get the comments and such taken care of, you may well miss out on a lot of experience and knowledge that you would get elsewhere.
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Also, I personally prefer to work in firms that have balanced male/female ratios. I think that many others feel the same way. Try to find a firm that has such a balance.
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RE: Women in the workplace...
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You absolutely can't have it both ways. If the language of casual conversation is offensive to you then avoid the casual conversations. If being excluded bothers you then participate with the other engineers as "one of the guys". Carrie Nation tried to change the world and oh what a horrible price she paid for it. You won't change the way people act regardless of how badly you want it to change so you either have to toughen up to rough talk or stay away from it (which means that you will always be elsewhere when the real decisions are made in the halls and bull sessions). It is a shame, but that doesn't make it any less real.
The "of course no one backs me up ..." comment really looks like someone who is looking for someone else to blame for real or imagined defeciencies in your performance. You either need to play the game by the established rules (even if all of the rules are not clear to you) or learn to enjoy yourself as an outsider.
David
RE: Women in the workplace...
Depending where kmtswims is from then there's a good chance that at least legally she can have it both ways.
Plus even ignoring the sexual harrassment/discrimination aspects for a moment then some of the behaviour sounds at least a bit rude, but maybe I'm just too English and mannerly. If you wouldn't say it in front of your mum/wife/adult daughter then you probably shouldn't say it in front of a female colleague, or does that count as sexist?
RE: Women in the workplace...
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Women in the workplace...
Although I definitely agree with the former suggestion, the latter 1 seems impractical. What guarantee does she have that these issues wont get repeated in the new job? Sexist comments and harrasment have been around for ages and they still exist. There is a young female engineer in my team (team size 25), and there seems to be no friction between her and the others.
However, I definitely agree with EddyC. It's better to work for a company with an (almost) equal ratio of men and women. Atleast the chance of any girl being singled out for harrasment is remote.
RE: Women in the workplace...
Of course there are always comments made that you may find sexist or offensive - the knack is to work out if they are being delvered that way - is it intentional or are you just feeling sensitive. Most of the time if a bloke says a comment that is totally inappropriate they can tell by my reaction how I feel and normally apologise. However I also feel that being a woman engineer is my choice - I entered a male dominated business (aerospace) and I should not make a point of it.
With regards to not being included - I really hate to say it but people (men and women) sometimes just don't think - they get set in their ways and don't realise what they are doing.
I hope all this doesn't sound to rambling, just think about why you are doing what you do, if you enjoy it then you sometimes have to learn to live with it.
However, if comments and or actions get personal or abusive you must report it, this goes for men as well as women. If your company has a decent employment set up that sort of action will not be tolerated, and indeed it must not.
Sorry if this was a bit long winded.
Good luck
Parsnip
RE: Women in the workplace...
Some things that jump out to me. Those of you who say to avoid it, that is impossible since comments and such are made while I am sitting at my desk working, I can't just not be there.
As for the idea of trying to fit in with the guys, I am not sure how fair I think that is. Am I supposed to change who I am so that I can "fit in." Would we ask a male nurse who is in a female dominated field to try to be "one of the girls"? I feel like its women who are always supposed to change because we are viewed as too sensitive but I don't think that is fair. It is not wrong to be annoyed or hurt by comments that are deragatory to you.
I would love to find a new job but that just isn't an option at this point since my husband and I want to move out of state in the next year. So eventually I will be getting a new job. I was just wondering if this is happening at other engineering firms.
I do know to write everything down, I was sexually harrassed one time in the office and I logged an official complaint. Luckily that person is no longer here.
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" I was just wondering if this is happening at other engineering firms."
Sure. It happens the world over. Powerful, confident people will always seek to dominate less powerful, less confident people. It isn't sex,as such, it is primates.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Women in the workplace...
Men usually like female company. Men don't like it when they're only men around at work. Women add something special.
If men tease women, it's usually a sign that they like them. If a man does not like a woman, he will typically ignore her. Men will sometimes go too far in this as in any game.
The longer men work together, the more intimate they get and the more informal the communication among them. Part of male informal communiation is slang, bad jokes, inappropriate comments, etc. I guess that's the way we are. If you had any brothers this situation would probably more familiar.
You either like it and become friends, or you don't and you don't become friends and don't share life outside work. You can't have it both ways as zdas04 wrote. What you can _legally_ have both ways looks beautiful on paper, but useless in practise, at least useless if you think it could improve your working environment.
Sexual harassment is obviously inacceptable, but sexism... come on, are you trying to make me believe that men are women are the SAME??
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I wasn't trying to say that men and women are the SAME but I do believe they are EQUAL. I just feel its inappropriate to make comments such as "I know you are a girl, but try reading....". I am not looking to be friends with the people I work with I just am tired of being put down and chastised constantly.
I do have brothers and they did tease me relentlisly (sp?) but I don't think that guys you work with have that right. I also understand there is male communication versus female communication, what I have a problem with is pure sexist remarks.
RE: Women in the workplace...
She usually takes the comment and twists it around to poke fun at the person making it, usually leading to a laugh or snort from us guys, and embarrassing the person making the comment, revenge is sweet sweet sweet. She takes the same tack with nearly all 'good ol boys' and as such is well respected.
Men as simple creatures, we usually only respond to negative stimuli: violence, embarrassment etc.
I think the point is that if you're seen a being meek, the badgering will continue, fight back and give it to em worse and eventually they'll learn their lesson.
As for the meetings and chastising, you're new and young and maybe they expect more of you because of that, I get the same treatment.
As for the sexual harassment, that's entirely unacceptable, good job going to someone about it.
An alternative track would be to do what my wife does, a dose of insult to the harrasser (preferably belittling his sexual prowess), followed by violence if he gets aggressive....my wife is a self-defense instructor....usually people don't bother her too much (I also think she throws in the insults so that the person does get aggressive, thus giving her a reason to beat the stuffing out of him ;) ).
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You wrote "I do have brothers and they did tease me relentlisly (sp?) but I don't think that guys you work with have that right." -- well, apparently they think they do, and if they behave like brothers, would that be such a bad thing? I dunno, I am just wondering.
Remarks like "I know you are a girl, but try reading...." are really not meant to be an offense (as far as I know my fellow male homo sapiens). They are simply meant to be funny. They are pretty stale, though, especially if you hear it every day, and if I were you I would ask them to come up with something a bit more funny and less boring. They actually might if you challenge them.
Other than that, I can't give you much advice, kmtswims, if they are too hopeless and annoying then just move on.
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If you smile sweetly with a twinkle in your eyes, they should get that you're making fun of them. If they think you're serious, its definitely time to pack up and move on to that other job...
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First of all, I think there is no excuse for genuine sexual harrassment. Before my wife and I were married she worked at a place where someone who was married kept telling her that he loved her, wanted to marry her, wanted to have kids with her, wanted her to go out with him, etc. That is sexual harrassment. If someone says "you are not allowed to work on this job, come to this meeting, because you are a girl", that is gender discrimination, which is also wrong, but shouldn't be confused with harrassment. Both are intolerable in the workplace.
Then there is workplace joshing. It happens everyday at all levels in the company. The Ford guys harrass the losers that drive Chevys or even worse if they drive Dodges. They guys and girls go at it both ways. As an engineer I am teased when I wash my hands because I actually did something to get my hands dirty. The big people make comments about the short people. There's country boys vs. city boys. Local people vs. "pot smokers" from Milwaukee. Fly fishermen vs. bait fisherman. The shop floor tease the management because of the money they must make. Yes, I've been told I would understand something because I'm a man. I also get to hear the women talk about the "hot" guy outside surveying our property or the "hot" legs on the guy putting up the sign out front.
It sounds like you may be experiencing both gender descrimination and joshing, but I don't know about sexual harrassment. You need to deal with the descrimination with the management. As far as the joshing, realize that you will get teased about something. If someone says something about your driving or reading, slam him back with something else. Guys like to be funny and tease. If you come back with something they will probably think "This girl is cool, one of the guys." Most guys return insults, so that is what they expect.
If it really does bother you about the girl teasing, let them know, be upfront and honest with them. There are somethings I don't like being teased about either. Just expect that they will find something else to tease you about. It's human nature and I think that everyone want to have a little fun at work.
Wish you the best.
"I have had my results for a long time, but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them." Karl Friedrich Gauss
RE: Women in the workplace...
I do feel sorry for whats happening to you. I hope you find your way around soon.
Hey boys, why dont we start a global engineering organisation? Kmtswims, TurbulentFluid, Parsnip and all other girls, would u like to join us? And then instead of using this forum, we can discuss r problems thro the company's bulletin board. Now what shall we call such a company?
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Let's leave the dirty talk for "behind the barn" conversations.
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Women in the workplace...
Men have been stuck in engineering firms for years and years without the company of females. Usually "inappropriate" comments are not indented to offend females, but are rather just the product of learned behaivor as result of gender isolation in the work place. In addition...male engineers *usually* have a difficult time interacting with women in general. Try not to get offended if the "boys" in the office are teasing you, its most likely an indication that you are liked.
HOWEVER...if you are female and want to project the "hard a**, i'm as good and better, hear me, see me, watch me out do you attitude"...expect the "boys" around the office to aviod you. Its likely you'll receive a promotion someday (mostly out of corporate fear of lawsuit), which in turn will result in the "boys" resigning or looking for a different job with a different boss.
RE: Women in the workplace...
kmtswims,
My suggestion to you is to leave the company and join a company that has an Ethics program in place. Companies with an Ethics program have a more professional atmosphere than these small companies with “old boys club” atmosphere that will make you feel secluded.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Women in the workplace...
Having said that Shell is looking for engineers and would love to hire women for the open positions. Shell is very big on diversity and inclusiveness and does not tolerate harassment. Go to the Shell website for more info.
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Women in the workplace...
Sorry you are having a hard time.
In my particular area of practice there is a lot of diversity. A woman engineer is just one of the mix. At least on the technical side, the effective engineers are going to rise to the top regardless of sex, race, country of origin, accent etc. A company that is as bigotted as yours seems to be is going to lose in the long run because the smart people will not stay.
All in all, in my 20+ years as an engineer, I have seen very little of what you describe, but I have seen some. In one case a male supervisor told me to "just do it sweetheart," when I was trying to point out something that was not going to work. That was pretty upsetting. I did not back down, and I eventually convinced him. When you are a young engineer in this situation, it is usually best to play a bit dumb yourself: "Hmm, I tried to do the calculation like you said, but I could not get it to work - can you sit down with me and show me what I am missing?"
Of course, there have been off color remarks here and there. I generally choose to ignore that stuff and concentrate on getting my job done. But I have been known to get up and close someone's office door if they are being particularly ignorant.
I would advise you to thicken your skin as much as possible, and start looking for a new job. Do not complain to your boss or HR without fully considering the consequences.
RE: Women in the workplace...
The "being left out in business and personal" may or may not be a gender thing. I've always gotten along with co-workers, but they weren't all my buddies after work, either. And ditto on the meetings.
RE: Women in the workplace...
Your employer, as you know, is a "mom-and-pop" and not a corporation. You can't really count on them to do much of anything to address the problem that you identified. You being a recent employee, they would probably choose to side with your more senior colleagues and try to find some way to jettison you. The easier path would be for you to move on quietly. That way you may be able to get some kind of references from them, which is important in some of the industries in which engineers work. Especially when the time comes to pursue your PE. Why bother to risk your career just to make a point? The lawsuits that we hear about in the media generally apply to more senior workers that make a great deal more money than a newcomer to a job. There are plenty of employers out there. Many have balanced work environments that encourage an employee's growth & happiness. Try to find this type of employer.
RE: Women in the workplace...
I am a female civil engineer and here are some of my random experiences over the last 12 years.
My former boss told me that I had to work harder because I was a female engineer.
When I was in college, I had a male student tell me I couldn't be in civil engineering because that was HIS major. I guess he didn't want me there. Recently I've had clients look at me and ask me "who checks your work?" I had another client who, at a meeting, shook my boss's hand (looking him in the eye) and then shook my hand briefly while never taking his eyes off my boss (never looked me in the eye.) Just a few weeks ago my boss had a site meeting with one of our clients. I asked him if he needed me to go along. He said that our client is a crotchety old man that doesn’t like women much so it probably would be better if I didn't go along. I had a meeting with a sanitary sewer "foreman" and he asked me why I became a civil engineer because he thought it was more of a rough branch of engineering and why would I want to do it. A while back, a group of people were discussing women in engineering and someone said "just about anybody can be an engineer these days."
My former boss had a problem out on a site. He had practically everybody in the office working on it except me. I asked him why he didn't invite me out on the job as I would LOVE to go. He said "I'm sorry. I just figured that you wouldn't like getting dirty. It's real muddy out there." When you make a mistake, if you are a male, they will chalk it up to being "green" or "learning from your mistakes" or perhaps they will give you a mentor to show you the ropes. If your female, you will be labeled as dumb. When a good engineering learning experience comes along (a new, innovative design, a challenging problem in the field, etc.) it has been my experience that I wasn't invited.) Actually it just happened to me this week. We had flooding issues in the Northeast this past week. My boss headed out to check out some sinkholes, etc and took a two male colleagues with him to take pictures, etc. Several months ago, there was a contractor's demonstration of a new product that I would have LOVED to see. I didn't find out about it until the guys got back from the demo. My former boss had three tickets to a professional lunchen. There were three engineers (including me) in my office. He invited the two male engineers and their wives but not me and my husband. The kicker is that the extra ticket went completely unused.
When I started in eng. I truly naively thought the prejudice didn't exist anymore. A thing of the past. I was dead wrong. But before you get too discouraged realize (this is very important) NOT EVERYBODY IS LIKE THIS. I have met a few non-prejudice, intelligent male engineers and non-engineers in my working life and have enjoyed working with them and learned a lot from them. You may have to keep searching to find a place where you are accepted. I believe these places do exist and there are people that are not prejudice. You just have to keep looking. In the mean time, find your support system somewhere outside of work (i.e. family and friends.) Also (and this is hard for me to write) be sure YOU are not prejudice. Imagine my egg on my face when some new female engineers were recently hired at my job and I thought, gee I wonder what THEY know. I caught myself thinking this and told myself to STOP. Then I went to see how I could mentor THEM.
P.S. I do occasionally go out to lunch with the office "girls" and I find it very fun!
P.P.S. It's easy just to say go looking for a new job. Sometimes that is best. But sometimes that is not always an option.
P.P.P.S. I was sexually harrassed at both a non-engineering (inappropriate touching) and engineering job (guy followed me and hopped in my car and wouldn't get out). Didn't report it the first time becauase I didn't stay at the job. I reported it the second time ( the engineering job) and the guy was fired. Sexual harrassment can happen ANYWHERE, not just at an engineering job.
RE: Women in the workplace...
RE: Women in the workplace...
Fortunately I've only really had one such experience since I've been in the engineering workforce, and it was pretty mild: I'd done all the editing, personally overseen most of the proofreading, and had a fair amount of technical input into the rewriting of our 1200-page standard specfications. 20 hours a week for three years on top of my normal engineering responsibilities. Another guy, working in a non-engineering function but with the same job title for this particular project, had set up the Word template and done some proofreading. When public thanks were issued, the head of the agency (who'd never met either of us personally) made it sound like the other guy had done all kinds of technical work, and that I'd pretty much just handled document distribution ("and kept everyone in line, chuckle chuckle"). I'm pretty sure that there would have been a very different spin on things had our first names been reversed.
And then there was the old guy at a national-level committee meeting who assumed I was with the hotel staff. (Serves me right for wearing a black suit.)
But if that's as bad as it gets, I'm in a pretty good situation.
So no, they *aren't* all like that, and I'd definitely recommend going in search of better. In the original poster's case, it looks like she'll be looking for another job for geographical reasons soon enough anyway; hopefully she'll have better luck in the new place.
And yes, I hang out with the "office ladies" too. After a lifetime of making friends mostly with males, I find myself gravitating toward the few females around here.
But then I am not in a position to need to prove that I'm better (in a purely engineering sense) than the office ladies. I can understand how an engineer who feels she is being treated like a secretary would be afraid to tar herself with a secretarial brush by association.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Women in the workplace...
RE: Women in the workplace...
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That said there was one very nasty issue at my first job were a employee was harassing the female intern to the point where she quit. (It all turned out okay though, when the situation was discovered he was let go and she returned to work.)
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My boss liked it. He wanted to test 2 of them and asked me to give a copy to an engineer (female) to try out for a couple weeks.
A couple weeks later we had a department meeting. I was sitting in the back. The VP stood up and said the female engineer was going to show us a presentation.
It was the automated forms I created! She said she created them and it will be standard for the company. I stood up and said "This is bull**it!!", and walked out.
After the meeting, others came to me and asked how did that happen. The female eng walked by and I asked her why she did it. Her answer: "Because I'm a b**ch".
I was laid off a couple weeks later.
It took me a few years to get over working with another female engineer.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Women in the workplace...
David
RE: Women in the workplace...
Most women aren't "b*****s".
RE: Women in the workplace...
RE: Women in the workplace...
At the time, it was a gender issue. I know since then it isn't.
Eddy,
I also know most women aren't "b*****s".
I was just sharing a story about my experience at the time working with women.
I guess what I should have wrote was, the women at the time were favored by management because of what they were wearing or how they acted.
I have nothing against working with women, in some cases I prefer it.
My pet peeve is at most companies I have worked at, it's usually the women that sit on the phone or email most of the day and don't get much work done, and get away with it.
If I'm in the bathroom for more than 3 minutes, I'm reprimanded!
My current job, I have to listen to music through earphones so I don't have to listen to all the personal talk and laughing between the women.
Sorry for rant, sore subject for me, I'm done.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)
RE: Women in the workplace...
I don't believe just hearing certain words or topics discussed by others is harassment.
Words don't have magic powers. They are just sounds.
Of course there are a lot of people in this world that have been trained by their parents and society to experience discomfort when they hear certain words.
It’s amazing because if the same sound came from a squeaking door hinge, and the person knows that, the sound is a don’t care.
If the same sounds are spoken by someone it becomes more about what that person might be thinking and subject to control and punitive action.
I believe the confusion has to do with how the human works. I have read about studies where scientists somehow mapped the brain activity of a person that’s doing something that they know is a mistake. Apparently, a person watching a person make the same mistake stimulates the same areas of the brain.
It may be this vicarious assimilation of emotion caused by observing others that really is behind so much of the confusion.
If you have been trained from a very young age to believe that certain words are only used to insult women. And you hear these words, but they weren’t directed at you, you may feel insulted, attacked and hurt.
The reality is, your conditioning may have caused you to emotionally hurt yourself. The words are actually harmless.
These idiosyncrasies lead to all sorts of bizarre contradictions in our society. The President, Vice president and members of congress have all be caught using what’s sometimes considered profane language. Yet it is the FCC’s job to ensure that radio announcers don’t use the same language on the air that’s routinely used to conduct in our nations capital.
It’s the same thing with hate laws. If you kill someone it illegal. If you kill someone because you felt members of their race should be killed, it’s worse.
The problem with all of this is that it distills down to legal control over what people are thinking. Or what others assume you are thinking.
I usually try to fit in with the culture of the organization I find myself in and keep my thoughts to myself. I believe so much of the puritan enforcement of other people beliefs on people is just so much BS.
As we all know, if they focus on you and have the legal power to burn you at the stake. Your toast. Just survive kids.
RE: Women in the workplace...
Fact is many fields of engineering are male dominated and have been for a long time. Also in many fields of engineering the people involved don't tend to be very PC.
Combine these two and you'll find that yes there is a lot of what could be considered sex discrimination and/or harassment in certain areas of engineering.
RE: Women in the workplace...
I am very aware of the general hostilities to women in aviation. Particularly women that don’t have much experience.
I have watched people just refuse to explain something to a young woman then turn around and take a young guy under their wing to give them the full explanation.
When I’m in charge or moderating and I see that, I stop it. We need everyone trained and everyone’s ideas.
That doesn’t mean we have to cater to the “princess on deck” thing.
Many of these issues revolve around sex.
It’s pushed at you on TV, magazine advertising, the movies etc. So why should two guys discussing a fashion spectacle they just saw walking down a public street be criticized for creating a hostile environment.
I really think that the only thing anyone should be talking about at work are subjects related to the business. If it doesn’t enhance profit it probably doesn’t belong.
Very few men or women like that standard.
If we’re not going to stick exclusively to the bottom line for subject matter, it going to take maturity and tolerance we seem capable of in our living rooms.
RE: Women in the workplace...
I am sorry to hear of your troubles at your workplace, good luck in finding a solution.
I think it is difficult to tell if these coworkers are purposely being rude towards you without being in the thick of it.
I have encountered a lot of rude, aggresive and generally sexist comments whilst studying (I've just graduated) but never were these comments targeted at me. If they were, their aim was poor! I've happily socialised with male students young and old who have often gone on to make incredibly rude comments in my presence, although I strongly suspect they did not intend to offend me nor were referring to me.
Simply being a female in this industry you probably already have a gained more respect than the collective 'women' these men refer to in their jokes. I try not to take these things personally and as a result I've always been welcome as 'one of the gang' especially since 90% of the jokes we share are engineering related!
I certainly hope things mature a bit in the workplace, I'm getting pretty fed up of overhearing teenage boys moan about how we [female engineers] are all so ugly.
Let us know how you get on kmtswims. :)
RE: Women in the workplace...
In my experience most of the guys I work with at first just did not know how to deal with a woman at work in an engineering / production role. Bear in mind that other than the odd secretary and other support staff many may NEVER have worked with women in this role before. Its odd to them and often they just don't know how to behave. From this I have seen two distinct and separate responses, one is to treat you like you are their wife / mother / daughter. So they don't swear in front of you, are very carful, don't invite you out, don't involve you in their office 'games' (e.g. lottery, annual sweepstake, night out) because they don't know if you're interested and are too scared to ask. This may sound good because everything is above board and they're very well behaved but it is very alienating, you are very alone because you are not one of them and getting into the group is then very difficult.
The alternative is that they don't change behaviour at all, and treat you just the same way as they would any bloke joining in that position. You get the swearing, the slightly inappropriate comments , the practical jokes. Again, they just don't know what to do with you as you ARE different, whether you like it or not.
From experience of both, both are very difficult to deal with but face it you are different and many of the men you work with don't do it intentionally they just don't know how to deal with it.
My advice, give as good as you get... when the comment ' I know you're a girl but....' I have found that a ' my god, you noticed !' or a 'the boobs just give it away don't they' kind of comment makes them realise how stupid and daft the comment is, and will also make the other guys laugh. You're one of the gang but you don't have give up your femininity.
With regards to your bosses, its a trickier one. I would suggest one of two tacks. First work damned hard, face it you have to be better than your equivalent male colleague often to get noticed, anything average is seen as being not good enough. And if there are things you want to be involved in but aren't asked then ask ! Maybe they don't think you're interested, you wouldn't want to get your hands mucky, you wouldn't enjoy it.
Much as you like to think that there is equality nowadays, it doesn't yet exist. In my experience not because men aren't willing but because they often just don't know how to act around females in that position. Once they get used to it you'll usually have no problems, but stick up for yourself, rise above it and make the job what you want... you don't get if you don't ask.
If you really hate it, get another job. But I would avoid the harrassment aisle unless it is directed at you and is a major problem. Its a lot of hassle and while it shouldn't be it is a very enduring Black mark against your name.
Oh and for reference I think the male female balance where I work is 340:1 excluding clerical staff (170:1 if included) and the dept I work in now has NEVER had a woman work there before except the cleaner / secretary.
RE: Women in the workplace...
God make men and women as perfect human beings, where men has saliencies, women has cavities, and vice versa. Men and women are peaces of the same puzzle.
RE: Women in the workplace...
Re sex and kontiki's comment that the only thing anyone should be talking about at work are subjects related to the business... ideally, yes, but I'm not sure if that is a realistic expectation. After all we are all dressed up homo sapiens, and being at work is just one of those group situations in which not only the neocortex is at work, but the underlying "animal" brain sections as well. So there is jealousy and competition, an informal hiercharchy besides the formal one, enmity, friendship and... pheromones. Like it or not, we have to somehow manage it.