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Newbie to Drafting

Newbie to Drafting

Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
I was wondering if there is a inexpensive software tool that I can use for drafting. Autocad is too expensive. Others even more. We manufacture and sell automotive parts and need drafting off and on.
The organization just purchased Autodesk QuickCAD 8 and I tried using it but it does not seem "User friendly" maybe it is my ignorance. Is there another tool or maybe a resource which will make me more productive using this tool.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I suggest doing some research and see what your suppliers, customers and vendors are using. Try to use what the majority of them use or find one you like that can import/export files all can use.
IMO, for most CAD, you get what you pay for. For automotive design, if mechanical, I suggest SolidWorks, CATIA or ProE. The basic SolidWorks will cost you a little more than ACAD.
For your business to grow and stay competitive, don't go "cheap".

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
Chris:
While I appreciate your comments and agree with them I would like to say the following. Our use of drafting is more for documentation purposes. We have approx 3000 products but only approx 10 classes for example we have bushings that have a ID, OD and Length and Material and Hardness. There are 1000+ types of bushings with the same requirements but different dimensions. Anothe class is PINS. Length and Diameter are the only requirements A few pins might have Keyway slots and/or grease fitings.
As you can see our needs are quite simple. Most of the time we can draw the product and label the dimensions and it is sufficient. Sufficient but not professional. That is why I need a simple drafting program.
But if you still feel that I should be going the SolidWorks route then I will respect your decision as you obviously have more experience than me. I just want to make sure you know where I am coming from.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I know where you are coming from, been there. :)
I don't know your process, that's why I suggest researching as mentioned above. There are cheaper CAD software. Here are just a few.
I suggest picking some and have them show you demo's.

http://www.cad.com.au/general/3D%20CAD.html
http://www.turbocad.com/
http://www.ashlar.com/
http://www.nothingbutsoftware.com/promos/googmathcad061402.asp?ai=883

and more on the web

Good luck.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I agree with Chris to try not to "go cheap". Find out what your customers use and or what formats they can accept or give you.

However if you really need to go cheap, some of the better ones are Alibre, Rhino & IronCad.

If you want really cheap, "Alibre Express" is free and Google is now offering a free version of "SketchUp". smile

cheers
Helpful SW websites  FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions  FAQ559-1091

RE: Newbie to Drafting

  With the limited types of parts you make, you probably don't need a high $ package at this time, but only something to document the variations (an electronic drawing board and spreadsheets).  However, if you want to expand the scope of your business in the future, I would recommend that you find a package that deals well with part families.
  One decided benefit to using CAD is taking advantage of the documentation of your product, such as part history, new releases and revisions.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
I think the consistent answer has been to NOT GO CHEAP.
Now that I am thinking along these lines I am concerned that "later" when i do need a professional CAD package the time spent now would have been wasted so it NOT really that cheap.
Ok, Cheap is out.
So Is QuickCAD 8 from AutoDesk one of the "Cheap" ones?

RE: Newbie to Drafting

One mid range 3D CAD not listed above is Solid Edge.

It's not as common in most parts of the US as Solid Works, which may be a consideration, but from what I understand is just as capable.

It's tempting to say full blown 3D CAD may be a bit over the top for what you are doing but like ewh says it may open new doors, if not so much for your company then for you.  

3D cad may also better support some of your documentation needs (if you need anything more than conventional 2D drawings) as you can produce iso views easily and even rendered images with little effort.  Also if it's an issue you could supply models to your customers etc.

The very brief 2D drafting course I did at university was on autosketch:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=2753027

It's pretty cheap, less than $150.00 by the looks of it tho' I don't recall it being that fantastic.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
Sketchup?? ColBlimeyLimey, i am sure u r joking, oh I see the smiley, u r joking.fish2

RE: Newbie to Drafting

If you want to go that cheap and basic, Sketchup may be for you.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

Not meaning to be boring but:

What ever you choose think about things like your configuration control, file naming convention, how you're going to store you files, drawing/modelling standards etc up front before you've got a bag of jumbled data.  

This is even more important if you go 3D due to the links between the 3D model and the drawings.

Of course not being familiar with CAD you won't probably know most of the questions to ask but I suspect a few of the posters here may have suggestions.

My first suggestion would be to be consistent.  Consistently wrong in the same way is easier to fix than wrong in all sorts of different ways.

Trust me, I'm wishing my current place had been consistently wrong right now!nosmiley

RE: Newbie to Drafting

If all you are documenting is variations in size, features and materials, you probably don't need to go with any solid modeling software.  However, with the entry price of Alibre being what it is (what is it?), there's no reason not to try try it.

Without any CAD package, this could be done. This could be accomplished with a simple digital photo of the parent part and an excel table for ID, OD, Flange, etc.

If you are doing more than just documenting, like sending drawings out to customers, then a simple 2D package should work well (yes, 2D still has a use), like TurboCAD.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Newbie to Drafting

mo,
Well my young apprentice, first look at the type of market you are in and make the investment in the software. It will cause you less problems down the road. Check with other companies kind of on the QT. See what they are using for software. If the company you work for does mainstream standard parts you could start developing your own ANSI (Block or Cell) Library. Could'nt hurt. One last thing and I think it is important. Do not skimp on you equipment it is better to do it now than have to pay through the nose to have someone come fix it.
Good Luck,
MAy the Force be with you,
Regards,
Namdac

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I am surprised that people are recommending you go out and buy a 3D package based on the information you have given.

Where you see the company going in the future may be something different but for what you do now a 3D package would just be a waste of money IMO. Try out a few of the free demos available, a cheap (or free) 2D package will more than meet your needs.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I have to agree that for what the company is doing now, a 2d package is probably sufficient.  However, good points were made about looking to the future.  If the company is happy where it is and plans no expansion of product line or services, then 3D may be overkill.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

You might do a cost study against labor intensive 2D drawings and a simple spread sheet of parametric designs

Given that your parts were similar in design.


Cheers

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I'm surprised that some people would still consider 2D packages! A 3D package can be used for 2D, and some cost about the same. Not many 2D packages can produce 3D. So why not go for 3D & gain experience?

cheers
Helpful SW websites  FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions  FAQ559-1091

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I agree.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

Pencil.
Vellum.
Electric eraser.
Large triangles, some hole templates.
Large, flat surface.
Scanner.

Voila!...
Paleo-CAD!

RE: Newbie to Drafting

wgchere

You forgot the eraser shield and scalpel/craft knife.

Out of interest Mo, have you had any drafting training or any significant experience.

I don't know about QuickCAD 8 but I'm sure any CAD package would seem daunting with out training and/or someone to ask for help.  Especially if you don't have a drafting background to help know what you're trying to achieve.

Some are simpler than others but given your concerns with QuickCAD 8 be carefull that whatever you pick isn't worse.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

One suggestion that I didn't see (or missed) here is that of outsourcing the CAD work.  I'm sure there are others here who, like me, create drawings on the side for local, small businesses.  An ad in your local newspaper should yield plenty of results.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I agree with Ajack1. Why convince someone with such simple needs to go 3D. They are looking for minimal cost and obviously a 2D only package will suffice.
While my personal preference is Solidworks without question, why don't you give the FREE SolidEdge Layout software a try.
Here  is the link: http://www.solidedge.eu.com/isapi/pagegen.dll/pages?page=free_2d

Some of you other guys ought to give this thing a whirl for fun as well. It is somewhat refreshing to work with a simple 2D only tool again. On the other hand it does remind me of too many years of pencil pushing!

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
By the way guys, I really think you should know this. Some have made the assumption that I am a young and budding draftsperson etc etc and the advice given, based on that assumption, was all fantastic.
But the fact is I am a businessman, with a software background, who is now forced, due to family health issues, to command a manufacturing unit. I have launched a warehouse in New York and am selling the parts manufactured by the factories we own and also make some custom parts for customers. Off and On and this is the key "Off and on" i need capabilities for a drawing. For Example a drawing is cheaper to send to a vendor or customer in China than a sample would be.
Anyway, and this is what I am getting at, day before yesterday a drawing was needed by a potential customer, the sales manager looks at me, as it is got to do with "Computers". Well I post it here and based on the answers I get, I pull myself up by the boot straps and tighten my belt and get that QuickCad Installed and ready. Learnt it, spent some 4 hours to finish a drawing that would take 1/2 hour for any of you guys but the bottom line is the drawing was finished and was faxed to the customer and was approved and we GOT the F&^%king ORDER.
The bottom line at this point to me was to get the job done and not 2D or 3D etc etc. 2thumbsup
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU to you ALL.

To answer Kenat's Question. No I do not have any training in Drafting. And I think I should as I like it.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

Mohinderlamba,

Glad you managed to get the order.  Fastasleep had a good idea on the outsourcing, maybe you could find someone that you could fax a sketch to and they could put it on CAD or something, shame on us for not thinking of it sooner.

I was thinking about this post for some reason last night and realised that the short term cheapest answer would probably be to get QuickCAD working, and it looks like you beat me to it on that one!

I don't know what QuickCAD is like but if you struggle with it then the free Solid Edge drafter is worth looking at as I found Solid Edge easier to learn than some CAD systems.

On the drafting, sounds like the amount you'll do may not justify it but I know at least one community college that offers drafting courses maybe there is one near you if you're interested.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

mohinderlamba

I recommend you take a look at a9cad. It is a very straight-forward 2-D CAD program.

There is a free version available, as well. And if you like it, the "full" version is very reasonably priced (~$35 Canadian).

http://www.a9tech.com/

To echo some previous posts, you do get what you pay for. But based on your description, it may suit your needs.

Best of luck with your business.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I don't know exactly what it would cost compared to other software but Kubotek's KeyCreator is a very good easy to use 2d system with good 3d functionality.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

mohinderlamba,
Thanks for clearing me up. Your first post told me you did know drafting or was a beginner. Now, my suggestion is the same as others ... outsource the drawings.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
Fastasleep : In regards to Outsourcing I know we are not supposed to do business discussions here but In case I do have a future need would you want to do this? Where are you based? How much does it cost? Maybe we can take this part of the discussion offline (mohinderlamba@rebasoft.com).

Chris: When I came across as having some drafting knowledge, I had read a book on AutoCad. Laughing Out Loud" />
Well I should not laugh because it did give me enough knowledge to do what I did.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

A good start. I have worked with companies that never got as far as you did. Good luck to you.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

I would never want to go back to 2D after designing in the 3D world but considering the simplicity of your parts and your needs, and if I think of it as "my money", I would probably look at a 2D package.  Make sure your choice doesn't leave you with an incompatible file type if the company ever goes under.  My company has hundreds of Personal Designer drawings that are a bear to work with - DXF translations blow up dimensions & text into many little spline segments!  I know some people will groan but I think ACAD Lt. is a pretty good 2D package for the money and most CAD packages can work with .dwg files.  Whatever you do try it out before you buy it.   Most companys will give you a demo copy usually with some sort of limitations or a trial period.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

(OP)
On a scale of 1 to 10, as far as learning curve is concerned, what score would you give a 2d package vs a 3d package.
I guess what I am asking is "Is the learning curve for a 3D package quite steep?"

RE: Newbie to Drafting

Depends on your background and experience. 2D is much easier for some. Some people can't see 3D.
It's hard for me to say 100%, but IMO, I think 3D is easier. Once you learn 3D, you can make 2D dwgs. Much harder to make 3D parts from 2D dwgs.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

RE: Newbie to Drafting

Being as you don't have any previous experience with a 2d program, learning a 3d program shouldn't be too difficult.

I know that sounds counterintuitive but it isn't. Most people that I know, that learned how to draft on 2d software and became good at it, had a harder time going to a parametric 3d platform because the design process is backwards.

In a 2d program (KeyCreator, TurboCad, AutoCad)you draw shape to fit the dimensions you intend to end up with. In a 3d parametric program (solidworks, inventor)you draw the dimensions to fit the shape. In Autocad when you draw a line you assign the length and direction when it is placed on the screen and you can trim or otherwise transform it to make it look like the finished product. Simple shapes can be pretty easy but you need to have some drafting background inorder to create a coherent drawing of a complex part. With Inventor you can sketch in a rough shape and then apply dimensions and "constraints" to lock it into the finished shape. You can then create a three dimensional object to represent your part. The program can then create a 2 dimensional veiw of your "model".

A 3d program can be more difficult for a software novice to operate but it sounds like you have a pretty good computer background, whereas a 2d program is easier to maintain but can be difficult to produce something that will look profesional.

Bottom line, I think for your application a 2d package would be the most cost effective route, you are not using it enough to get set up with anything more complex. That being said, I think a 3d package would be better for you from a learning curve stand point and for future expansion. If I was you and all I ever wanted to do was exactly what you have told us, I would buy a decent 2d package with simple 3d capability (I would recommend AutoCad or KeyCreator), take a class on how to use it and be done.   

RE: Newbie to Drafting

It's almost scary how easy it to use the 3D modeling software out there - something I clearly don't advertise at work! But keep in mind these packages have certain hardware requirement$ and require CAD specific video cards - your cool card for DOOM doesn't do much for Solidworks.

RE: Newbie to Drafting

sounds like a job for aspiring student at a local tech college or junior college...beer money for a local student, everyone's happy


-nadz

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