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I guess I'm getting old.

I guess I'm getting old.

I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
This is kind of a rehash of the harrumphing in thread731-110284 (which I happened to surf to recently), but I just gotta.

I was just at a conference.  There were a number of college students in attendance.

The boys all wore what I'd expect a student to wear to a conference--variations on the theme of polo or oxford shirt, and khakis.  More formal than they'd wear just hanging out or going to a party.

The girls, on the other hand...

Okay, it's not like they were wearing lowriser jeans with their thongs sticking out.  But they wore outfits that, although fairly nice, looked a lot more like they were going to parties than to a meeting.  And they wore that "I'm finally too old for Daddy to tell me not to do this" quantity of mascara that has been popular with girls and that adult women have always grown out of since about 1968.

And they wore flip-flops.  Sure, new fancy flip-flops with little gold spangles, but flip-flops dammit.

And yes, I know, the face of engineering is changing and new demographics will bring in new looks, but this didn't strike me so much as cutting-edge as simply juvenile and clueless.  

There were also girls there who knew how to dress--they looked plenty feminine, plenty modern, but professional.  So it's not simply that Times Have Changed.  (And besides, cutting-edge in engineering just means wearing what was cutting-edge a few years ago in less conservative fields but is now pretty standard.  Flip-flops are NOT "the new flats", and a quick googling backs me up on this.)

There were no boys who wore nice yet inappropriate clothes (like, Idunno, silk knit T-shirt with more jewelry than one ought to wear to the office).

I don't really think it's just a matter of What Young People Are Wearing These Days.  I recently attended a presentation given by a bunch of business school freshmen (age 19, mostly girls), and they were all VERY professional-looking.  I guess they teach them that in B-school.

So why should it be the girls who didn't bother figuring out what they should wear to this conference?  Is it lack of role models hanging around their civil engineering departments?  Or is it the greater variability in women's wear that leads to more likelihood of picking the wrong thing?

Or is it just my deep-seated prejudice against anyone who reminds me of high school?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Part of it, I think, could be answered by pop culture; look at any celebrity awards ceremony and you'll see the women half dressed with their boobs hanging out 50% of the time.  It's all about shock value, or something.  By comparison, the guys with these ladies (with a few exceptions) are usually dressed rather conservatively with a sharp looking tux or something.

About ten years ago, this "relaxed" dress code for the ladies would have been fine with me.  But now I have to admit that these women are not doing themselves, or other women, any favors in the grand scheme of things.  This is especially so if they hope to be perceived as professionals.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I've noticed this for a few years and I think it is self correcting.  Typically I've seen the person in an office who dressed the "treandiest" (if that is a word) is the receptionist.  When a professional woman dresses like that she will get asked to make copies or order-in lunch a few times and start dressing more like the big kids.  I've seen it happen time after time.  The worst is when they show up on a jobsite in soft clothes and aren't allowed in to do their job.  That doesn't have to happen very often either before a trendy kid realizes that the job is hard enough without fighting that battle as well.

The "engineering uniform" is just not consistent with the latest thing and is self correcting--they'll stop it or start selling real estate.

David

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

So what is 'the engineering uniform'?

Most days, mine is black pants; company shirt, short sleeved; no tie. There are practical reasons: black doesn't show marks and looks smart. Company shirt: if it gets trashed with work dirt, I'll get a new one. Short sleeves reduce the dirt problem. No tie: rotating plant and neck ties are a very bad idea. Plain stupid in fact.

The past two weeks I have spent entire 14hr days out on plant on a particularly heavy commissioning job. 'Work uniform' has degenerated into jeans and T-shirt to arrive in, T-shirt and boiler suit on site. Few of 'the brass' have seen me arrive this past fortnight, and even fewer have seen me leave. If I wore a toga or a loin cloth they would be none the wiser.

My point is: attire should be selected to suit the expectations and the conditions: I might turn up looking like a vagrant on a breakdown callout at 0200hrs, but I will turn up smart for an important meeting on weekdays. On the breakdown my skills count, not my appearance. In the meeting my skills count, but so does my appearance.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

ScottyUK (Electrical)
I understand the UK has been having a heatwave the last few days, and you are wearing a boilersuit? That sounds too hot.
B.E.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Hi Berkshire,

Yeah, I've been up on a steam turbine working on the hydraulic servos controlling the governor valves. We've replaced a substantial part of the turbine's control system as part of an upgrade program, and it has taken a lot of work. The turbine level was exposed to the blazing sun. It's tricky doing precision work while sweat is running in a continuous stream down your safety glasses and helmet peak. The ambient temperature was well into the thirties - a real sun trap with no breeze to cool things down. The guys I really pity are the laggers (thermal insulation specialists) who wear tight fitting Tyvek suits and dust masks, plus safety helmet and glasses or visor. Their work must be so uncomfortable!

I seem to be catching the heatwaves around the globe this last few weeks: on holiday in Toronto I arrived to catch on of the hottest days for over twenty years!

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

ScottyUK,
The "engineering uniform" that I mentioned is one of those things that you can't define, but you recognize it when you see it.  I've spent the last two weeks in the field and wore jeans, fire-retardant long-sleeve shirt, and steel-toe boots (and it was 103F, 39.8C?).  In meetings I wear a lot of kakhi, button-down shirts, and dress shoes.  The engineers I see in meetings are wearing similar clothes.  If someone shows up at a meeting in field clothes everyone assumes he/she is on their way to/from the field and its not an issue.

Women tend to seem appropriately dressed in a slightly softer version of the same thing.  The word that usually comes to mind is closer to "sensible" than "sexy".  Skirts that allow them to bend over to inspect a pump without concern about exposure, trousers that can get in the same room as a rusty pipe without being ruined.  Shoes that would protect a toe from a dropped bolt.  Skin is just skin, but too much of it exposed can be a distraction from getting a job done.

David

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

HgTX, I know what you mean.  I testified in court on Friday.  I wore a Dana Buchman suit (black with grey and pink pinstripes) with a matching pink sweater.  Black pumps that pushed the envelope a bit because they were open toe.  It was 101 degrees, however, so I figured it wasn't too much of a violation of appropriate attire.

The other expert, a young man in his mid-twenties, wore what I would call the engineering uniform, a blue blazer with khakis, grey shirt and a dark tie.  The attorneys of course had on suits and the judge wore her robe.  Even the Plaintiff and Defendants were smartly dressed.

However the twenty-something female court employee keeping tabs on us while we waited to testify was wearing a short, low-rise, see-through white skirt, dark-colored thong underwear, crop top and flip-flops.  A regular Britney Spears wannabe without the baby accessory.

I don't think it's a lack of role models.  It's a lack of good judgement.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I work in engine engineering at an OEM, and for the most part our women engineers dress very appropriately.  Our support staff (admins, mailroom, etc) are a mixed batch.  A few of the youngest women engineers, and about half of our interns, fall into the category described by Hg.  I'm not old enough be unaffected (not even sure that the age exists), and it's distracting to say the least...

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

If you are in a plant, site, field, PPE is the norm for us:
- Nomex (or equivalent: yes, Nomex is a trade name)
- steel toe boots, green patch, oil, and chemical
- hard hat, side impact (colour coordinated if you wish) with applicable decal and safety stickers
- gloves (leather or leather reinforced)
- high vis vest or strips

What you wear underneath is up to you.

In the office:
- cotton pants or good jeans
- golf shirt, cotton shirts, company logoed whatever
- no tie, no jacket
- casual shoes

This pretty much goes for the technical personnel.

The receptionist, document control, etc., they dress a bit more "trendier".

Oh, flip-flops are very common. I don't see a problem with that in the office. In the field, not so much. Office, what's the big deal if they still look nice? How are they that much different than sling backs?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.


Anyone remember this?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

On a refinery site in Siberia the boss had his daughter come in to act as interpreter during the commissioning phase.

Young and attractive, she was an English language student at the local university, spoke excellent english and had a very high boredom thresh-hold...  a week in a pump house with a bunch of engineers translating technical terms back and forth can't have been that much fun.

I nearly broke my neck in work boots, with thick socks,  tracking through the snow to the control room and back, it was 30 below on a couple of days, so much so that very attractive though she was, in her jewellry, furs etc. I felt I had to point out that the high heel stilleto shoes she was wearing where perhaps a bit risky.
Head Honcho or not at the refinery, this was obsviously one of those

Quote:

"I'm finally too old for Daddy to tell me not to do this"
scenarios.
Of course, I wasn't popular with the other guys for suggesting a more appropriate attire but the next day she arrived in jeans and sensible shoes.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I remember when men wore hats, suits (not sports coats), long sleeve shirts, cuff links, and wing tip shoes with "a thousand eyes". I actually worked with them.

Times change. Get over it.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

“And they wore flip-flops.  Sure, new fancy flip-flops with little gold spangles, but flip-flops dammit.”

My wife resonated the same sentiment!  My wife is the regional coordinator for her sorority and she is in charge for all of her chapters in a certain region.  Once a year they have a week long convention and there are two formal nights that they have.  Four years ago in Florida on one of the formal nights, some of the undergrads were wearing a formal gown with really fancy (with sequences and stuff) foam go to the beach flip flops.  It was not taken so well.  They actually sent them back up to their room to change their foot wear.  This has happen for the past four years.  

The flip flop issues is so serious now that the subject has reached the upper echelons of the sorority and have declared war on no flip flops to formal or business events.  In the communications for the up and coming formal in a half a page rant in bold letters if any of the girls come in flip flops to a formal or business event they will be excused (booted) from the event.  

So from the sorority’s point of view they are trying to teach the young girls that flip flops (of any kind) are not appropriate attire other than going to the beach.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

My mother, aunt and cousin would all have been better off in flip-flops than in high heels. All three have had some rather serious bunions for decades.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Come on guys, there is only one answer that makes sense: HgTX, yes you are getting old! smile (well we all are)

Ashereng writes it's OK for engineers to wear good jeans in the office, heck you should have tried that 40 years ago!! You would have got the same reaction as flip flops are getting these days.

Anyway while paradigms will keep shifting forever, only one thing remains constant: the feet and the bellies that SHOULD be shown to the general public usually aren't and vice-versa. blllttt

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

"...so much so that very attractive though she was, in her jewellry, furs etc."

How'd she look in the furs? Like Brenda Vaccaro in "Midnight Cowboy"?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

epoisses,

I think you are making my case for me.

Jeans no good yesterday, okay today.
Flip flops no good today, okay tomorrow.

What is acceptable evolves, as does societal norms.


Twoballcane,

I still remember when it was considered "declasse" for women to work outside of the home. About the same time that sororities and fraternities were at their peak of pop culture.

Some things change, some don't I guess.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
T(w)obal(l)cane's post and a lot of google references back me up on this one--flip flops are NOT the new flats.  Times have not changed that much.  Not yet.  And the "I dream of Jeannie" sandal (basically a flipflop with a strap around back) might be okay with a gown but not as businesswear either.  (There's a difference between open-toe and nothing but a couple of little straps.)

And as I said, it didn't strike me that they were trying to make a statement (like the first women to wear pantsuits would have).  They just didn't know any better, and didn't bother to find out.

And with that, I've put my finger on what was bothering me so much about those girls, and it probably says more about me than about them.  It really pissed me off that these little baby dolls could feel so sure of themselves that they wouldn't even bother to find out what constitutes appropriate businesswear.

Excuse me.  I must locate my high school and burn it.  No issues to see here, move along...

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I once worked at a small, and rather unprofessional, company.  The bosses wife, not a young woman, would visit the office wearing platinum bleached hair, low cut top, short shorts and super high (backless) "candies."  Lordy!  I wondered if she thought she was giving the guys a treat.

Anyway Hg, I totally agree with you about flip flops.  The thing about them is the noise they make.  All that flipping and flapping just has no place in an office.  

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

It's sounds like some of you guys are starting to feel a bit old!

Like Ashereng said, what is considered appropriate attire now-a-days would have shocked many engineers decades ago when a suit was a must.  Things change.  Maybe in a few decades the trend will be to dress in togas, or overalls, or unitards.  What's the big deal?  The way your generation dressed was fine, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right way.

"Fashion is a thing so hideous that it needs to be changed every six months" - Oscar Wilde

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
If a guy showed up to the conference in clean new flipflops and a nice, new, pressed hawaiian shirt, I think there would be more agreement here.

Business fashions have indeed evolved, but they evolve slowly, with the occasional "quantum leap".  (Women's pantsuits were one such necessary leap.)  I guess maybe I'm thinking that even if fashions change, there is even a protocol to govern that.

What's the difference between being at the front edge of a trend, and just being ignorant about protocol (either for current dress code or how to go about varying from it)?

I have a sense of a very big difference, but I don't know that I could really explain that difference.  I have some respect for the former, and none for the latter.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

HgTX,

I am guessing here, but I think you remember when jeans were only worn by the poor, as work cloths, or rebels (James Dean anyone).

Wearing jeans to a business meeting today is common. I recently went to see my investment advisor, on a Wednesday, lunch, and he was in jeans, logoed golf shirt, and casual shoes. And, he was not unique.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

If flip flops offends your sensiblity so much, I guess you should say something to the offender, your boss, HR, whatever...

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

HgTX,

Check this out:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13459962/

Pets at work. Is that professional or what?

So, you come into a meeting, and trip over the snoring dog of the flip flop wearing 20/30 something client.

What da ya think of dat?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

At my new job on my first day I actually got told to take my tie off as it wasn't appropriate!

Before you think I'm ancient I only entered the workforce in 1999 and at my old place wore a suit everyday for the first year or two, and yes every time I left the office to go on the shop floor or where ever I put on my jacket.

Once the couple of suits I had started to wear out (think grease stains etc) I moved to the black pants and short sleeve button shirt uniform (I also kept a tie in my drawer in case I forgot about a meeting so I could slip it on) with a newer nicer suit for really important meetings.

On site was another matter, although even then jeans were frowned upon. I had what I called my trials hat, basically a rather old fashioned beanie which I always got teased for.  That was until the person doing the teasing had been stood out side for a few hours in the wind/sleet etc.  They soon shut up.

My new place, where I was told to remove the tie, has in effect no dress code, even tho' there was a slide on it in the HR indoctrination.  Shorts and flip flops are a regular occurrence, sometimes I think the real dress code is to look as bad as you can.
  

I still feel odd wearing jeans, and although more casual in style just can't seem to give up my buttoned short sleave shirts.



RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Pets at work. Is that professional or what?

My wife's boss allowed that - and we took full advantage of it when we had a new puppy (easier to supervise the pup during the workday that way).

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Heh Heh.

And you all thought flip flops was a bit unprofessional.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
I think I'd rather see the puppy than the flipflops.  But then I own my own flipflops, so I can see them whenever I want; I have to rely on others for puppy access.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

So, you are saying:

              dogs =  professional
        flip flops <> professional

Hmm. Interesting.

Seems much less like age, than self interest. poke

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

We have pets at work, we call them interns.

Our favorite game is go fetch.

Sorry, poor attempt at humor.

Ken

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
Where did you get dogs = professional?  I just find puppies more entertaining than flipflops.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I did not mention that my former boss' wife always brought her dogs with her when she visited the office.  The little poodle was ok, but the bigger dog had a rude sniffing habit.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
Oh, man, I should have guessed there'd be a little poodle "accessory" involved!  Or at least a chihuahua.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

We used to have a company cat.  I think it was a stray or runaway that adopted us.  Kind of took some of the austerity out of the tunstiles and electric fences.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
I've seen many factory cats and the occasional store cat.  I don't think I've seen any office cats.  

(Does that mean cats are not "business formal" but perhaps borderline "business casual"?)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

We have a person in accounting that raises seeing eye dogs for the blind.  Part of the training is to introduce the dogs to large groups of people so they will behave in crowds of strangers.  I notice that everyone smiles and are happy when they see the dogs, though they are encouraged not to pet or interact with it.  The dogs do not run around playing fetch, marking territory, or barking.

I see nothing wrong with this, but would have a problem with someone bringing in their personal pets just because they feel sorry for not spending time at home with them.  If you want a pet that doe not need a lot of attention, get a reptile or fish.  Ball pythons are great cuddlers.

I also notice people that have their kids in the office when school is out because they could not find a babysitter.  I think its cruel to force a child to sit in an already cramped cubicle for 8hrs and expect them not to want to stretch their legs or be curious as to what others are doing and why.

Clothing styles are dependant on the given job on a given day.  I personally wear jeans and polo shirts most days, as I never know when I may be required to do something out on the shop floor.  Others in the office that never venture into the manufacturing area wear slacks, button shirts and ties. Meetings with outside contacts (not vendors) change my dressing habits to black pleated pants and a button-up long sleeve shirt (still no tie).

What really burns me are the women in the office that wear skirts, sandals and a tank top, then complain that the A/C is too cold and have it turned down/off while the rest of us that are dressed appropriately broil.  I've told my share to wear a shawl or jacket if they're cold, but use less appropriate adjectives and explicatives.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Working/Service animals are always exempt from the rules barring animals - buses, trains, airplanes, ships, etc.

I don't think the piece I referred to here is in relation to service animals.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

"pet creches" ?
Why not, lots of other daft things happen in todays work environment (e.g. employing dyslexic postman because it would be discriminatory not to -  perhaps we should start a list).
Of course, some pets may eat others given some peoples fondness for "exotic" animals; any guesses on when will be the first occassion a pet owner sues company because one pet was dinner for another?
You can bet that anyone wearing unsuitable clothes/footware won't let that stand in the way of a law suit "because the company didn't make them (infringe their civil liberties) wear more appropriate appareil.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

ha!  Here's another great one to upset the rulebound.  When my feet get uncomfortably sweaty at work, I'll take off my shoes for a while and go without to let my socks air dry (despite dress code to the contrary).  

The sweatiness usually becomes a problem on hot days when I've been traveling back and forth from the shop floor or test facilities (some days include as many as 3mi of walking outside in office shoes in temps in excess of 90F, with periods of office work interspersed).  

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

My Girlfriend's brother went to an interview at a leading software company wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. He was in a room with the other potential candidates, who all happened to be wearing 3 piece suits. The interviewers sent all the suits home emptyhanded. They told my girlfriend's brother that "You look like the kind of person that we want to work here. You're hired." At age 30, he now makes more money that most engineers twice his age.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

See, there is a good reason for wearing flip flops.

You can take your shoes and socks off, hang them up,go about in flip flops until they dry!  smile

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
Eddy--how long ago was the GF's brother's interview?  There was a time when software guys ruled the world, and the more unconventional you looked, the better.  (I think it was Microsoft where the dress code was reputed to be "Bathe.")

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

A related articles on dress shorts.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.


Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.  I still don't like to see sloppy, beachy, flip flops in the office (the fancier ones are OK), but I can't throw any stones today.

I spent 5 hours  on a rooftop in San Jose in shorts, linen shirt and big hat (shorts and hats are against company policy, along with printed T-shirts, loud jewelry and perfume).  It was 110 degrees F on that roof last time I checked.  Went home and showered, put on my make-up and jewelry for tonights performance at the Farmers Market, grabbed my costume and came back to the office where I can work in relative coolness until I have to put on a skirt composed of 50 yards of fabric, hip scarf and coin bra and head out into the heat.

Neither my attire this morning nor my exaggerated makeup and loud bracelets meet company policy.  But at least I'm not wearing flip flops. Sorry Ashereng.  I know you're partial to them.

I kinda like those city shorts, but they're too fancy for what I do.  I like the long REI hiking shorts with all the pockets.  And the pockets have to zip closed so I don't lose my camera, calipers, measuring tape, and inspection mirror while climbing scaffolding.



"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

HgTx,

The interview was 7-8 years ago and you hit the nail on the head about the company in question.

-EC

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

One of my group members in our engineering capstone class wore flip-flops, designer (ripped) jeans, and a AE t-shrit to our final presentation. It was to nearly half the faculty and student body, which included several CEOs and Sr. Engs from companys like Caterpillar, etc.

Needless to say, we got docked about half out points for this idiots attire, we were all in business suits, ties, and dress shoes. Everyone presenting was in that attire. Our presentation was nearly flawless, but I remember one of the notes: "Flip-flops are NOT MEANT FOR MEETINGS!!! C-"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

casseopeia, Thanks?

Too bad you can't wear the shorts. They'd at least be cool and easy to care for, assuming cotton/blend.


So, flip flops are for going to the beach, not the office.

But shorts are okay? Is that where this trend is going?

I am all for that.

Why can women show their legs, and men can't. Don't give me that arguement about women shaving their legs. One of mine is shaved (neoprene sock under my brace) already - can't be that hard to shave the other.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Because nobody wants to look at men's legs.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
I think many of us have done the "I'm on my way somewhere else and just here for a little while" version of alternative wardrobing.

Around here, I wear T-shirts & jeans all the time.  I am expected NOT to look like that if I go anywhere else, including other campuses within my own agency.  But I'm under the impression that sandals (on me, not on the admins) would be pushing it.  (I'm wearing a pair right now but they're my summer dress shoes and I'm on my way to a funeral; see paragraph #1 above.)

Regarding the "city shorts"...history repeats itself.  The fashion world tried introducing business suits with shorts (I'm pretty sure it was just for women) maybe 10 years ago.  Didn't catch on then either.

Eventually some relatively hip portion of the business world (like fashion or advertising) may adopt shorts suits or flipflops (or poodles) to the point that they get a toehold (so to speak) on the business clothing world, and it may expand from there, but till then, no go.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Ashereng, I'm with you about the shorts wearing, it seems rather sexist that woman can wear short skirts in the office but men can't wear shorts.
 
I'm also partial to my Birkenstock sandals (aka Jesus boots), even though my wife thinks I look like an old man in them. I tried wearing sandals to work once (back in my intern days), but I was told it was a safety hazard b/c I could drop a file on my foot....somehow I don't think that any other shoe besides forge boots will prevent damage to your feet if a 10lb binder falls on it.

Actually come to think of it, how useful is a steel toe cap anyway? Your toes are protected but the top of your foot is not.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

UcfSE,

It would give more credence if you were female. I don't know if you are.

Personally, my wife likes my legs - so there! tongue


Ziggi,

You can get a steel plate that also laces up to cover the top part of your foot, to the ankle.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Asher
Isn't that what a foundry boot is?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.



I ALWAYS look at men's legs. Who doesn't like looking at a nice legs?  I'm not even picky about hairy or smooth, although I have been so taken with the a couple of consultants out there with very nice, smooth, skin on their legs that I had to ask them if they waxed. One said not since he was in high school and on the swim team and the other asked what I meant.  Apparently he never heard of waxing, nor had he seen the movie 40-year-old virgin.

Ashereng, I actually can wear shorts if I want to.  My boss is very much against the company dress policy and wears shorts most of the summer. Normally I don't like to wear them in the field because occasionaly I have to wade through tall weeds in unkempt yards and climb into attics.  Pants offer better protection.

ziggi and HgTX, your sandals wouldn't raise and eyebrow out here in Northern California.  And here in Marin county, I believe there are communities where Birkenstocks are almost required (Fairfax and Bolinas).


  

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Ziggi,

Don't know. Never worked in a foundry.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

casseopeia,
 
rofl

I am glad you are sharing my point of view.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

We should start up a petition for wearing shorts to work in the summer up here in Canada. I've spent some time in both California and Africa and the summers here in Toronto can be worse than in both, due to the smog and humidity.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Shorts are good.  But here's something even better.  I found this on in my search for a sari-tying video (for free).

Here's a little clip showing how to properly tie you gillie brouges.  Now there's a proper shoe!

But what is that he puts into the piper's sock at the end.  knife?  folded sheet music?  a slide rule?


http://www.nicolsonhighlandwear.co.uk/index.cfm?action=article&articleID=1164

There's more interesting stuff along with sari tying, like making your own Viking era tunic.

http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/traditional_clothing.htm

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

casseopia,

Traditionally, a knife is carried (the type/name momentarily escapes me).  Not something that is likely allowed in an office environment.  The "joke" was that you could use it on the person who asked the inevitable question as to what you wear underneath the Kilt.surprise

Regards,

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I believe it is a sgian dubh

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Its not just pipers that wear the kilt.  Its the scottish eqiuvalent to the tuxedo (black tie formal evening wear); very popular at weddings.

That said its also day wear when worn with the correct type of sporran, jacket and shirt.  Very versatile.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

It seems there is more to the tradition and customs of wearing a kilt than the average Enlishman or American could hope to understand.

Any full blood Scots might be able to explain more, I'm only about 1/8th and don't have a clue.

Isn't the knife for the Haggis. wink

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

"Isn't the knife for the Haggis."

Yes, to commit suicide before being forced to eat it <ducking flung haggis, he exits ungracefully...>

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Exactly.  I remember Alton Brown's recipe for Haggis which concluded with "throw the mess away laddie."

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
They make intestine-free canned haggis in Texas.  Not too much unlike corned beef hash.  Pretty good, actually.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I'm curious as to what level of intoxication or hunger one has to achieve to willingly eat intestine-free, canned hagis, in Texas?

Something else occurs to me today (unusually calm due to some computer/network maintenance).....

1. Does going from a discussion about flip-flops and thong underwear to canned hagis constitute a quantum leap?

2. How many threads have started out on a noble course, only to be highjacked by the Hagis?

i need something to work on for a day...my mind is wandering into dangerous territory

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
I tried doing a search for "haggis" to see how many threads it's come up in, but there's a user named Haggis here, so that skews the results a bit.

The next question is, is going from flip-flops to haggis a leap up or down?

The haggis vendor was giving out free samples, so I tried it.  Turns out it's quite edible.  The vendor likes my fiddle playing, so I got a free can o' haggis.  Also a free bottle of Diet Irn Bru, to add to the list of Things I Will Consume That Really Should Not Exist.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I could be wrong but....

Haggis shouldn't contain intestines.  The casing should be a sheep’s stomach.  Intestines would make it sausage.

Main ingredients from memory are the sheep’s 'pluck' (I think I spelt that right), oats and seasoning.  I could be missing something.

Actually tastes good, if you can get your head around eating offal.  

BTW apparently you can't legally get real/authentic Haggis in the USA.  Certain of the ingredients are illegal.

However, this is certainly off topic so I better stop there.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Speaking of offal, the Polish, Russians...and other East Europeans consume sheep intestine soup, tripe soup to be exact...it smells awful in my opinion, but doesn't actually taste too bad as long as you forget the fact that feces passed through your meal not too long ago.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Quote:

bottle of Diet Irn Bru, to add to the list of Things I Will Consume That Really Should Not Exist

Does that mean just Diet Irn Bru shouldn't exist, which I agree with as it's a poor substitue for the real thing.  or just Irn Bru in general?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

intestine-free haggis...
diet irn bru...
alcohol-free glenfiddich...
a kilt with undies...
flip flops with socks...

Where is the world going? smile

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

flip flops with socks is good, but make sure you've ordered the right wine. A good Antarctican Pinot Verde goes nicely with the dish.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

er....  not sure if I'm still on topic or if this thread is now about absurd foods....

ROB

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

One of my coworkers just came into my cube wearing flip flops and an Aloha shirt. I asked him WTF and he gave me a look as if I had come from another planet.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

The 19 year old intern at our office wears them (flip-flops) often. I really don't have a problem with this as she is very well groomed overall. I say let the young enjoy their youth.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

I didn't think you were suppoed to wear hosiery with flip flops?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

my boss shows up in jeans and aloha shirts all the time

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
For my normal officewear, aloha shirts are dressup (from the usual T-shirt).  I haven't decided yet whether they're okay for going to other buildings within my agency.  (They have buttons, so that kinda counts.)  I wouldn't wear them to a non-agency destination.

This all has the weird result that when I'm out on a construction site, I'm better dressed than when I'm working in the office.

On the hosiery, no, the babydolls had no hosiery with their flipflops.  I think there was toenail polish involved.  (Nail polish is a whole nother discussion within the topic of professional womenswear...)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

HgTX,

Now you are against nail polish?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: I guess I'm getting old.


uh oh, I'm in trouble now.  I probably violate the nail polish rules.  I have well-manicured toenails because I get pedicures about every 2 weeks.  So that's not the problem.

But I am currently wearing NEON PINK practically glows in the dark!  And I usually wear sandles.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Neon Pink/Fuschia/Magenta is one of my favorite colors.

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

(OP)
I'm not necessarily against nail polish.  I don't really know what the rules are (but I'm pretty sure there are some rules).  I don't think I've really seen anything other than perhaps a French polish on an engineer--but if we were to allow flipflops or other open-toed shoes, I wouldn't be surprised to see nail polish there, even on someone who doesn't wear fingernail polish.  (Casseopeia, are you in this category?)

I'm guessing someone with bright fingernail polish and/or very long nails would be seen as less professional (and certainly not willing to get her hands dirty).  (And coloured polish on short fingernails just looks childish.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

casseopeia,

 "..But I am currently wearing NEON PINK practically glows in the dark!  And I usually wear sandles."
 Seems like you're a highaway signages! But anyway, who cares it's just your  fashion. smile
 


RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Funny you should mention it.  My nails seem to be a mirror to my personality; split.  Never thought about it in those terms before.

I've got NEON PINK on my toes, which I can cover up if I need to to look serious for work, and NO color on my fingernails, which I keep pretty short.  In fact, I usually just get a buff for my fingernails. This is what MEN get when they have a manicure.  You get all the usual maintenance stuff, like cuticle trim, filing, clipping and a hand massage, but no color, and no extended nail length.  

Never have been a girly-girl who is afraid to break a nail, or get my hands into my work.      Can't keep color polish on more than 2 days.  It starts to chip, then I just take it off.  Easier to not do it in the first place.

I'm not too sure what the rules are for polish, just that it should be neat and unobtrusive.. and not grown out 1/4 inch at the bottom of the nail.  As for color, probably something soft.  I've always hated the black/purple look.  Too goth for the office.

I'll wear goth make-up, costuming and put on fake tattoos for a performance, but I don't bring that stuff into the work.


"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I guess I'm getting old.

Goth bellydancing?  Save me a seat on the couch at the old folk's home, HgTX...:)

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