MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
(OP)
Let's say that you were given a choice beetween the two.
Or more precicely how does Patran compare to Femap?
I have used Femap för more than ten years but have now been given a choice. My problem that I'm not convinced that Patran is better so why should I swap. I'm not saying Patran is bad but will it make me a better engineer or will it just give my computerscreen a new look. Is it worth learning Patran when you know Femap?
Any input is welcome
Thomas
Or more precicely how does Patran compare to Femap?
I have used Femap för more than ten years but have now been given a choice. My problem that I'm not convinced that Patran is better so why should I swap. I'm not saying Patran is bad but will it make me a better engineer or will it just give my computerscreen a new look. Is it worth learning Patran when you know Femap?
Any input is welcome
Thomas





RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I agree with everything you say. It's all opinions. And I would value yours.
The reason for my question is this. I have for the past ten years (or something like that) been working with MSC.Nastran for Windows, N4W,(MSC.Nastran with Femap) and been happy with that solution. As you might know UGS have now terminated the OEM agreement with MSC.Software so N4W no longer exists. That means that if I want to stick with Femap I probably need to do something on the solver side and if I want to stick with MSC.Nastran I can get MSC.Patran. There ar other combinations as well but I'll keep it "simple".
I far as I know Patran is not bad but like I said I'm happy with Femap. So is Patran so much better than Femap that learning it is worth the effort?
Like you say, I will only get opinions but that is exactly what I'm looking for. I will obviously test it before I make any final decision.
Regards
Thomas
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
i use FEMAP now, i've used PATRAN (years, literally decades, ago), and i was sitting with someone driving it recently ... i was very impressed by the user's memory skills (navigating PATRAN's "menu" system).
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
Or could you use your existing Femap setup without maintenance and upgrades whilst continuing with the MSC solver until MSC get their act together on the pre/post?
Just curious?
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
Cris - UGS are offering MSC N4W users a straightforward jump ship to their NX/Nastran solver with Femap, so it does not make sense to use Femap with MSC/Nastran, the other alternative is NE/Nastran with Femap.
However there are other native windows pre and post processors that work exceptionally well with MSC/Nastran to choose from.
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I am now getting quality results with a very nice package.
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
Patran seemed to me to be both evil and incomprehensible. There again I didn't have any training in it. There again I didn't /need/ training to get useful results out of FEMAP or Hypermesh or, spit, IDEAS.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. Opinions.
My own question has so far been, I'm happy with Femap so why change? The reason that I asked is that some people think I should change based on the fact that they no longer can provide me with Femap, only Patran.
But I will take a look at Patran. The main reason is that I'm by nature very curious.
Any further comments are also welcome.
Thomas
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I've been watching your various postings with interest because I was in the same situation. I took the plunge and opted for Patran and am just now getting going. I'm not sorry for doing it. For me their were good reasons for going the Patran route. I ended up with quite a bit more capabilities and financially it made sense.
For example, Patran has a solid wedge element that Femap lacks. It allows upgrading to Laminate Modeller in the future on an on demand basis. The Femap alternative to that is anaglyph which was expensive for me to purchase outright and lacks some of the features of laminate modeller. Sure Patran is more clunky but software evolves (remember those 300 guys in Bangalore). The clunkiness seems to make it actually more transparent to what is actually going on. In any case, fea is not really a production type software where the number of mouse clicks is determining productivity.
This is not the first time this sort of situation existed. In the old days there was MSC Pal2 that got dropped. At that time I switched for a while then came back when MSC got Femap. I believe in today's world MSC will have to have a good Windows product or be faced with a very limited market for their products. By staying with MSC you will be able to migrate.
Tom Stanley
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I still feel Patran is a dead product. It needs a complete redesign. How many undo levels does Patran have? FEMAP is unlimited. How does MSC plan to enhance and modernize Patran in the future when they are pushing Sofy as their premier pre and post processor.
You can get Laminate Tools from NEi (Noran) for about the cost of FEMAP. Also, FEMAP does handle wedge or pent elements. These are not particularly good elements in any FEA code so I would not want to mesh with them over HEX8 or TET10 elements.
MSC is a sinking ship and I do not see how they can recover at this point. I feel that learning Patran at this point would be counter productive.
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I know from these forums that NEi gets great reviews and gives good support. For some people, especially those that let their maintenance expire on N4W, that may be the best option. However, in my case, financially that would not be viable. If MSC dies, then another decision would have to be made and be evaluated at that time. I think its a bit early to write them off though. Going back to the automotive analogy, Chrysler's fortunes have gone up and down over the years and the ownership has changed, but they still make cars.
I'm still interested in what Thomas' final decision is and how it works out for him.
Tom Stanley
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
First of all, thanks for your input. If everybody liked Femap it wouldn't be much of a discussion.
The reason for your going with Patran, if I understand you correctly, was to a large extent financial. Based on technical merit only, would you say that Patran is better than Femap?
Regards
Thomas
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
While I do use it at my day job, This is my own personal copy for my own interests, composites and other boat racing stuff. http://members.axion.net/~tstanley/ Therefore the money is coming out of my own pocket.
I've done a couple of Patran models now, ones that were similar to ones done previously in N4W. It is different, but the results seem OK. There are a bunch of examples on the MSC web site to learn from, that are better than the help files.
I never did find the pent elements in femap, not that I want to use them everywhere. In particular the model was of a unit cell of a woven ply in a laminate. Using mainly hex and some tet elements left some free edges that could have been eliminated by using one or two wedge elements.
From a financial point of view, I had been looking at anaglyph (the laminate software) and couldn't justify to myself buying it outright to go with N4W, but it seemed possible that I could perhaps get work that would justify a short term lease of laminate modeler. Laminate modeler requires Patran though, and wouldn't work with N4W as far as I know.
All in all, I tried to evaluate the gain in capabilities with the expected loss of user friendliness and balance it with the money that I could afford.
Tom Stanley
RE: MSC.FEA and NEiNastran
I understand your reasons for going with MSC.FEA.
I will probably not go that way for several reasons.
It doesn't add any capabilities that I need. At least not for a resonable price.
You mentioned "300 guys in Bangalore". The problem is that I don't see that as only positive. Say that I learn Patran, will Patran "evolve" so much that it becomes in fact a new software? I don't mind learning new things but Patran today seems very uncertain. But I will have a look at it before my final decision.
There is also the fact that I have some API-programs written for Femap. Swapping to Patran means rewriting, again I don't get any more capabilities but it will take work to make Patran do what Femap already does for me.
But I will let you know what the final decision is if you are interested. It will be part technical and part financial.
Regards
Thomas